OK, well, now that I acctually have other members joining the group, I

better start posting content, shouldn't  I? Hence here's a quick

review of one of the AP releases I have:



Spaceboyz Social Club: Unreleased Recordings 1987-1988 is a collection

of three long tracks from the end of the Reagan era, when AP consisted

of the duo of Doctor Synth and Carl "No Musick" Howard. Doc played his

usual assortment of synths, sequencers, keyboards, organs, electronic

flute, glissando guitar tapes, and effects while No Musick is credited

with playing synths, sequencers, keyboards, and effects.



The first track, City Across The River recorded at the Space Station

Studio in April of 87, and is the closest to a professional recording

on the entire disc, having been recorded on a 4 track reel to reel

machine. It clocks it at around 30 minutes long and basically sets the

tone for the disc: a very deeply spacey improv, reminding one of the

early Cluster records (in particular, Cluster 71, and the two records

the German group made as Kluster, when Conrad Schnitzler was in the

group).



The second track, City In The Valley is a Doctor Synth solo piece,

recorded during a radio broadcast in LA on August 19, 1997. This was

the time of the Harmonic Convergence (remember that?) and also the

10th anniversary of the death of Elvis Presley. Despite that latter

statistic, I doubt there's any chance you're gonna mistake this piece

for anything by the So Called King Of Rock N Roll (Pretender To The

Throne is more like it). Like City Across The River, this piece is

very textural, with little in the way of rhythmic or melodic movement.

It rather comes off as a more intense than usual ambient piece

(actually, the other disc is like that). Clocking in at about 20

minutes, this piece seems to also have a small audience, as one can

hear applause at the end.



The disc wraps up with City By The Sea, recorded at Floyd Bennett

Field in Brooklyn, and while this is where Welcome Back Kotter was

set, once again, there was little chance of this music being mistaken

for that of John Sebastian (D'OH!!! Now I've got that damn Welcome

Back song stuck in my head!!!!). This is the shortest of the three

pieces, recorded during a live performance. According to the liner

notes, Doc and No Musick pumped all their gear through NM's practice

amp, which dyed in mid performance, thus ending the piece. It's kind

of interesting, as you hear the die down in the end, and then you hear

someone comment about the amp's imminent demise, and I think that's

Doc himself who's heard chuckling briefly. As the music abruptly stops

the audience applauds. Where they applauding the fine performance, or

the fact that the set ended, or was it the WAY it ended (I'm somehow

picturing smoke pouring out of the amp, but I dunno if that would

actually happen when an amp dies or not...well, I take that back, I

know Steve Howe once said one of his amps died during a recording

session, a point that nobody realized until they noticed all the smoke

in the studio!).



Anyway, this is perhaps not the best recording to start with if you're

not familiar with the band, unless of course you're all into the more

extreme areas of electronic music. If you like stuff like Faust,

Cluster/Kluster, or Morton Subotnick (Silver Apples Of The Moon is one

of my favorite electronic music recordings), you might dig this.

This is one of my favorites. Of course there's a

sentimental attachment both to the work from this

period and specifically to one of the pieces: I was

sitting in the room with Doug when the KXLU piece was

recorded. (The rest of the small audience you referred

to consisted of the other band members of Paper Bag,

the engineer up at the station, the DJ, and various

people who just always seemed to be up there. The show

was well known and well frequented by musicians in the

L.A. underground, and it was not unusual to bump into

all sorts of people there.) He was staying over at the

Paper Bag band house for about a month, during which

we listened to a ton of his tapes, he went to shows

with us, and he and I even did a show together at a

little dive in Culver City called The Cavern.



I can remember watching him work up at KXLU and being

completely amazed. The only other time I'd seen anyone

handle an ARP that well was when I saw Tangerine Dream

at the Santa Monica Civic in April '77.



Of course when Doug sent me this CD, I knew what to

expect from the KXLU track (and my memory hadn't

deceived me as to how good it was). The track from

April '87 is something I might have heard while he was

staying with us; he had a very large duffle bag full

of tapes, mostly things he'd done, and we listened to

those all the time. The track from '88 was new to me

and I really enjoyed that.



Let me just say that I'm very glad the moderator of

this group has taken the effort to promote

conversatiion about Doug's work, which truly deserves

all the exposure it can get, and which has enough

depth and diversity to bear a pretty much limitless

amount of discussion.



-Greg Segal



--- Kohntarkosz <kohntarkosz@...> wrote:



> OK, well, now that I acctually have other members

> joining the group, I

> better start posting content, shouldn't  I? Hence

> here's a quick

> review of one of the AP releases I have:

>

> Spaceboyz Social Club: Unreleased Recordings

> 1987-1988 is a collection

> of three long tracks from the end of the Reagan era,

> when AP consisted

> of the duo of Doctor Synth and Carl "No Musick"

> Howard. Doc played his

> usual assortment of synths, sequencers, keyboards,

> organs, electronic

> flute, glissando guitar tapes, and effects while No

> Musick is credited

> with playing synths, sequencers, keyboards, and

> effects.

>

> The first track, City Across The River recorded at

> the Space Station

> Studio in April of 87, and is the closest to a

> professional recording

> on the entire disc, having been recorded on a 4

> track reel to reel

> machine. It clocks it at around 30 minutes long and

> basically sets the

> tone for the disc: a very deeply spacey improv,

> reminding one of the

> early Cluster records (in particular, Cluster 71,

> and the two records

> the German group made as Kluster, when Conrad

> Schnitzler was in the

> group).

>

> The second track, City In The Valley is a Doctor

> Synth solo piece,

> recorded during a radio broadcast in LA on August

> 19, 1997. This was

> the time of the Harmonic Convergence (remember

> that?) and also the

> 10th anniversary of the death of Elvis Presley.

> Despite that latter

> statistic, I doubt there's any chance you're gonna

> mistake this piece

> for anything by the So Called King Of Rock N Roll

> (Pretender To The

> Throne is more like it). Like City Across The River,

> this piece is

> very textural, with little in the way of rhythmic or

> melodic movement.

> It rather comes off as a more intense than usual

> ambient piece

> (actually, the other disc is like that). Clocking in

> at about 20

> minutes, this piece seems to also have a small

> audience, as one can

> hear applause at the end.

>

> The disc wraps up with City By The Sea, recorded at

> Floyd Bennett

> Field in Brooklyn, and while this is where Welcome

> Back Kotter was

> set, once again, there was little chance of this

> music being mistaken

> for that of John Sebastian (D'OH!!! Now I've got

> that damn Welcome

> Back song stuck in my head!!!!). This is the

> shortest of the three

> pieces, recorded during a live performance.

> According to the liner

> notes, Doc and No Musick pumped all their gear

> through NM's practice

> amp, which dyed in mid performance, thus ending the

> piece. It's kind

> of interesting, as you hear the die down in the end,

> and then you hear

> someone comment about the amp's imminent demise, and

> I think that's

> Doc himself who's heard chuckling briefly. As the

> music abruptly stops

> the audience applauds. Where they applauding the

> fine performance, or

> the fact that the set ended, or was it the WAY it

> ended (I'm somehow

> picturing smoke pouring out of the amp, but I dunno

> if that would

> actually happen when an amp dies or not...well, I

> take that back, I

> know Steve Howe once said one of his amps died

> during a recording

> session, a point that nobody realized until they

> noticed all the smoke

> in the studio!).

>

> Anyway, this is perhaps not the best recording to

> start with if you're

> not familiar with the band, unless of course you're

> all into the more

> extreme areas of electronic music. If you like stuff

> like Faust,

> Cluster/Kluster, or Morton Subotnick (Silver Apples

> Of The Moon is one

> of my favorite electronic music recordings), you

> might dig this.

>

>

>

>

>

>









____________________________________________________

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<<I can remember watching him work up at KXLU and

being completely amazed. The only other time I'd

seen anyone handle an ARP that well was when I

saw Tangerine Dream at the Santa Monica Civic in

April '77.>>



Ah HA! You were at the Santa Monica show?! I have

that one on tape! A very fine performance, and

actually, one of the first TD bootlegs I ever got

(the other being the Dominion Theatre London show

from Oct 82 that was recorded for the Logos

album).



So what model ARP was Doug using? I know in more

recent years, he's used a couple Odysseys, but I

really have no idea what his pre-97 era rig

looked like.



<<Let me just say that I'm very glad the

moderator of this group has taken the effort to

promote

conversatiion about Doug's work, which truly

deserves all the exposure it can get, and which

has enough depth and diversity to bear a pretty

much limitless amount of discussion.>>



I've spent the last few years trying to figure

out how to do what I can to promote music, not

just AP but all the underground music I like.

I've gone through the whole thing of posting

messages on various online forums saying "Check

this album out, you'll love it", to which

virtually no one ever seems to respond.



Anyway, a few days ago, it occurred to me, this

might be a good means of hopefully gathering

everyone together in one forum, especially since

the band doesn't really have a website. Also, I'm

hoping that if we can get the group membership

and amount of discussion high enough, it might be

enough to convince certain festival organizers

they should book AP!!!





May you never thirst!

The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"Thanks guys! I too love the sound of cats in boiling water!!" Mylar,

sarcastically commenting to one of the bands performing on Talent Night at his

night club, Mylar's

















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> Ah HA! You were at the Santa Monica show?! I have

> that one on tape!



Man would I love to get a copy of that. Any thing you

might be looking for in trade? (I'll include anything

from my own catalog in that offer.)



> So what model ARP was Doug using?



I want to say a 2600 but I think that's wrong. What

was the one just before that? When Jerry Kranitz

reviewed "Spaceboyz", he used similar info to what I

gave you and if I recall I got corrected on the model,

so it might be in that review.



> I've gone through the whole thing of posting

> messages on various online forums saying "Check

> this album out, you'll love it", to which

> virtually no one ever seems to respond.



I seem to recall you being the only person to respond

to my mention of AP on an RMP thread about whether

there were any black prog artists. That was a couple

of years ago, wasn't it?



>Also, I'm

> hoping that if we can get the group membership

> and amount of discussion high enough, it might be

> enough to convince certain festival organizers

> they should book AP!!!



Hmmm...yeah. It's difficult to know what people will

consider for festivals, eh? I do know this much,

there's been talk of a PB reunion show (the original

SST era lineup) and if that happens, Doug may come out

and be part of a special gig event. We're also looking

at getting Jugalbandi and Points Of Friction involved.

I want a "rematch" duets show with Doug! The tape of

the Cavern show bit the dust ages ago (neither of us

have copies) which is a bummer because not only was it

a great show, but Minoy was in the audience and sat in

with us for a couple of pieces.



Some people don't equate "space rock" and prog, even

though AP strongly bridges any perceived gap. But you

know how it is- for some folks if it doesn't sound

like the cliches, it's not prog. I don't particularly

care for viewpoints that narrow.











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<<> Man would I love to get a copy of that. Any

thing you might be looking for in trade? (I'll

include anything from my own catalog in that

offer.)>>



I used to do a lot of tape trading, but at

present my cassette decks aren't hooked up. At

some point though, if I can ever get things

straightened out around here, I'd like to see if

I can't get back to do some trading (though Id

on't know how many people still trade tapes,

everyone's gone to CD-R's now, I think).





<<I seem to recall you being the only person to

respond to my mention of AP on an RMP thread

about whether there were any black prog artists.

That was a couple of years ago, wasn't it?>>



I don't recall the specific topic in question,

but I do know I've talked about the band a lot in

virtually every online forum I've posted in, and

I do recall posting about them many times on RMP.





<<Hmmm...yeah. It's difficult to know what people

will consider for festivals, eh?>>



No kidding. I've been trying to get Rob LaDuca

and Chad Hutchinson to book AP for NEARfest for

several years. I think Rob told me at one poitn

"We didnt' really care for the CD they sent us in

99, and we haven't heard anything else by them"

or something to that effect.



It bugs me because they cover a wide range of

prog bands, they've had RIO type bands,

symphonic/NEO prog stuff, I can't understand why

they'd object to AP.



Then last year, they went and got this band from

Finland called Hydria Spacefolk, and were

trumpeting how they were book their "first space

rock band", and I was like, "You guys coulda had

a space rock band any given year if you'd listen

to me and book AP". Hydria turned out to be a lot

better than I expected, but they were way more

conventional than AP.



Then, I made a suggestion to the people who book

the Right Of Spring fest, which is held in

western PA every April, and no less than three

people (admittedly people who had nothing to do

with booking the fest, but anyway) who basically

told me that ROSfest mainly deals with symph/neo

bands and probably were unlikely to consider a

group like AP. I had one person actually say

"instrumental psych?! Take a look at the bands

who've played ROSfest", like I was being an idiot

for making the suggestion.



I'd love to see them play ProgDay. Apparently Deb

Sears (wife of Muffins drummer Paul Sears) was

pulling for them to get booked this year, but the

organizers instead went for A Spacious Mind. Deb

promises that she'll go to bat for AP again if

there's a ProgDay in 2006 (this is one fest that,

you never know if it's gonna be the last one, or

if they'll survive to the following year). So

we'll see on that one.



<< I do know this much, there's been talk of a PB

reunion show (the original SST era lineup) and if

that happens, Doug may come out and be part of a

special gig event.>>



Oh that would be cool. BTW, I was checking out

your website, and went to the Paper Bag/Bag

Theory website, and was reading on the history of

the band. I was particularly intrigued to see you

guys had recorded for SST. Back in the late 80's

and early 90's, I used to hang out at a record

store in Cleveland Hts called Wax Stax, and they

used to get a lot of the SST stuff in, as they

were heavy into all the punk/indie/alternative

music stuff back before it was hip to be into

that stuff.



Anyway, I remember taken note of SST, as they had

Negativland and Henry Kaiser, both of whom I was

really into at the time (Negativland's Escape

From Noise is one of my all time favorite

albums... remind me to tell the story I have

about seeing Negativland back in 92 or 93).



Anyway, it was funny, because I don't remember

the name Paper Bag, though I iimagine if I had

seen it, I wouldn't have known the band might be

of interest to me. I know a lot of the SST stuff

was more in the punk/hardcore direction, which

truthfully never interested me as much as psych,

prog and experimental music.



ANother thiing I noticed on the Paper Bag website

was, I was looking at the Bag Theory section, and

  saw mention of the names Tom Shannon and Matt

Brown. Now, I know Matt and his wife Tasia from

the AOL Yes boards (but haven't talked to either

of them in over a year, last I heard, Tasia was

pregnant, but that's very old news). Never got to

meet Tom, I'm afraid, but I hear he was a great

musician and a very nice guy.



<< We're also looking at getting Jugalbandi and

Points Of Friction involved.>>



Don't know either of them, I'm afraid.



<<I want a "rematch" duets show with Doug! The

tape of the Cavern show bit the dust ages ago

(neither of us have copies) which is a bummer

because not only was it a great show, but Minoy

was in the audience and sat in with us for a

couple of pieces.>>



Minoy is another name I don't know. Sorry to hear

that tape no longer exists. I'm sure that had to

have been a cool performance. Well, if you guys

could get somethiing together with Doug, that

might be give me sufficient excuse to request a

couple days off from work and return to Califonia

again (I've been there three times, I was in the

Navy for six months in San Diego in 91-92...oh

man, I remember going to the Tower Records on

Sports Arena Blvd and being floored by all the

cool prog imports they had...anyway, then I went

to LA to see Magma in 99 and spent a few days

with Matt and Tasia...that was a fun week!).



<<Some people don't equate "space rock" and prog,

even though AP strongly bridges any perceived

gap. But you know how it is- for some folks if it

doesn't sound like the cliches, it's not prog. I

don't particularly care for viewpoints that

narrow.>>



Well, I still love bands like Kiss and Uriah Heep

and Deep Purple, and I've lately gotten into Pat

Metheny and Duke Ellington (SEE?! I told you I'd

figure a way to work Duke into the discussion!!!)

as well as Stravinsky, Ligeti and Bartok. And I

also like Ralph Towner, Anthony Phillips and

Richard Leo Johnson, so I'm all over the board as

a listener. To me, it doesn't matter WHAT it's

called, so long as it sounds good (to my ears, of

course).



As far as thing of "space rock" (I hate that

phrase btw, it never bothered me until the mid

90's, when it suddenly became hip with the

alternative people to dig bands like Hawkwind and

Can...anyway, that's why I refer to AP as

psychedelic music) not being considered part of

the "prog" sphere, as it were, I consider

psych/space rock to be two sides of the same

coin. Both are taking "rock music" and doing

similiar things with it, in terms of taking it

into new, strange directions (to quote Barney

Gumbel's comment on the Meet The B Sharps episode

of The Simpsons).



But it's kinda weird how segregated the prog

community is, in so much that a lot of people are

only interested in only little field. There are

people who are only interested in the

neo/symphonic bands (or as Rob LaDuca once said

"A lot of people don't want to know about

anything that doesn't sound like Yes or Genesis).

Likewise, you have people who only care about the

RIO stuff, Henry Cow, Thinking Plague, Birdsongs

Of The Mesozoic, etc.



I remember the controversy back in 2001 when it

was announced that Magma were going to headline

Saturday night at NEARfest 2002. There were

apparently a lot of people who felt Magma didn't

deserve to be headliners (I hope that my e-mail

address and the previous comment about going to

LA to see Magma in 99 would indicate my opinion

on THAT issue). I couldn't believe that stink

that was raised on RMP about that one.



It's just amazing to me how narrow minded people

are. And then these are the same people who turn

around and talk about how narrow minded people

who listen to only pop music or mainstream rock

music (which no longer has anything to do with

REAL rock music, as far as I'm concerned) are.

What a bunch of hypocrites.



Anyway, It's nearly 2:00 am here, I'm tired, and

I'm not sure but I think this Anthony Philliips

CD I'm listening to is nearly over, so it's going

to time for me to do some pushups and crunches,

take a shower and go to bed soon. :-)







May you never thirst!

The Scuba Diver Presently Known As Chris

"Thanks guys! I too love the sound of cats in boiling water!!" Mylar,

sarcastically commenting to one of the bands performing on Talent Night at his

night club, Mylar's

















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