Saw this Erard on ebay, thought I'd pass on the info.  There's also a wurlitzer
and another pedal harp on there....english maker I believe, can't remember which
specifically

 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190023394783&ssPageName=ADME:\
B:EF:US:11


-----Original Message-----
From: member@...
To: blueharpdiva@...
Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 3:17 AM
Subject: Evangeline Williams sent you this eBay item: ERHARD classic harp



Evangeline Williams sent you this eBay item


Hi, I saw this item on eBay and thought you might be interested.

ERHARD classic harp
Current bid: US $14,000.00 (0 bids)
Shipping: Not Specified
End date: Aug-28-06 19:27:14 PDT
Add to watch list | See similar items
Find out more


Details for item number: 190023394783
Item URL:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190023394783&ssPageName=ADME:\
B:EF:US:11
Description: Collection 46-string Straight column # 3331 Before 1900 Shipping
will be through DHL for security reasons (you can trace your product in DHL´s
web... See more
Ships to: Worldwide
Seller: argentinafortheworld( 0 )
Member since Jun-11-06 in Argentina


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Be careful- very careful.

Last year we received an E-bay harp that was purchased from someone in
South America for "repair".  The photographs didn't look too bad except
for a break in the soundbox shell.  When the harp arrived, inspection
disclosed major insect damage, with some viable insects still in the
wood.  We immediately disassembled the harp, put it in garbage bags with
a LOT of moth balls, and stored it in an outdoors shed for a few
months.  When we started work we painted the parts we needed to use as
patterns with pentachlorphenol to avoid getting the bugs in our shop.

Bottom line:  The customer is getting a very fine Erard Gothic harp.  He
is also getting a couple of garbage bags containing the entire original
wooden harp structure except for the column, which is the only wooden
component we could use.  The cost, however, is pretty high.  Building a
new, gilded pedal harp as a one-off project isn't cheap.

In general we have found that E-bay harps are only a good buy if you
assume that they are going to need complete restoration.  With this
assumption, and a reasonable price, one can budget for the restoration,
get a nice harp, and not develop hypertension in the process.  The
Wurlitzer Model A noted in the original posting on this subject would be
an ideal candidate for such a project, assuming that it can be bought
for under $4k.  Add about $12k for restoration, and you get a very nice
gold harp for $16k.  Just don't buy it for $5k and expect to take it
home and play it.

And remember - any photograph scales down the image to such an extent
that even a trained, experienced eye cannot see critical details well
enough to assess the condition of something as large as a harp.

Howard Bryan
www.hbryan.com


blueharpdiva@... wrote:

> Saw this Erard on ebay, thought I'd pass on the info. There's also a
> wurlitzer and another pedal harp on there....english maker I believe,
> can't remember which specifically
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190023394783&ssPageName=ADME:\
B:EF:US:11
>
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190023394783&ssPageName=ADME\
:B:EF:US:11>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>

There is a antique 19th century Erard harp at a friend of mines fine
antique store downtown. I took harp lessons a few years ago. I would
like to learn more but I dont have a harp to practice on, and I dont
wanna spend a WHOLE lot of money on a pedal harp. But i am more
comfortable with a pedal harp since I am tall. His harp is over priced,
and he is going out of businiess. Does anyone have any info to help me
with my situation?

Thanks

Jason

I added pics of a rare harp piano that was made by a harp maker in
Austria in the 1840s. There are only 3 existing harp pianos like this
in the world. The insides, (action) of the piano is when you press a
key, a leather finger inside plucks the string. I am coming up with a
similar idea I plan to make as a keyboard instruments, but with nylon
strings, like a harp. I just thought I would share this with everyone.
Contribute a little since I am new.

Thanks

Jason

I am doing a production called "Billy Lee's Washington" about the life of George
Washington, and am playing the role of Sally Fairfax.  The writer of the show
has decided that since I play harp, why not use the harp in a scene.  I'll be
using my lap harp.  As far as I know Mrs. Fairfax never played harp, and I doubt
that she would play a small lap harp sized even if she did.  So yes, the show
has taken a few historical liberties to keep audience interest.
But it got me wondering about the harp's journey to America.  There's probably
books out there with this info but I'm not sure which ones.  I imagine at some
point people brought over Irish folk harps.  But what about pedal harps?
I know that Louisa Adams, wife of John Quincy Adams, played harp, and one
article I read mentioned her playing while in the White House, but surely there
were pedal harps in the country before 1925.  I'm just not sure where to find
that information.  Also, I'm curious what maker of harps were first brought
here...Erards?

thanks,
Evangeline
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We see more antique pedal harps than anyone I know of.  There was quite
a mix, if our experience is representative.  Lots of Erards, of course,
with the English Erards outnumbering the French-made by almost 2:1.
These date from the very early 1800's to the very early 1900's, with
most being mid-19th C. Our earliest dated Erard was marked 1803, the
latest 1909.

Some Erats, one Domeny (Paris), one Cousineau, one Challiot (1810,
Paris), one Blancher (late 1700's, Paris, a crochet harp), and a couple
of John Egan's (Dublin, early 19th C)

Don't forget J.F. Browne, who emigrated from London to New York in the
late 1830's.  He did some real nice work, and we have had a number of
Browne's in for restoration.  One Browne, a 47-string straight board
harp, had disks and mechanism on the 7th octave D, which I haven't seen
on any other make of harp.  Browne basically copied the Erard mechanism,
so much so that there is some interchangeability of screws and disks
between English Erards of the mid-19th C and the Browne harps.  Browne
seemed to target Catholic schools and Southern homes, for most that we
have seen have come from these places.

Howard Bryan
www.hbryan.com


>  But what about pedal harps?
> I know that Louisa Adams, wife of John Quincy Adams, played harp, and
> one article I read mentioned her playing while in the White House, but
> surely there were pedal harps in the country before 1925. I'm just not
> sure where to find that information. Also, I'm curious what maker of
> harps were first brought here...Erards?
>
>
>
>

The mechanism on the 7th octave D...I think there was a thread on the harp
column forums recently about why that is lacking on harps.


-----Original Message-----
From: howard@...
To: AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 2:42 PM
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL.  Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone know whether Tim Hampson is still making harps? He
produced a reproduction single-action Erard harp a couple of years ago but
his former website is now down.  Does anyone have a contact address for
him?

If anyone is interested in T shirts or sweatshirts featuring the
artwork on our group page, you can get them here:
http://www.cafepress.com/harpymusic

                     Deb

There have been no emails for 3 months which seems rather odd to me.
Where have you all gone? Anyway, I wish you and all your antique harps
a very happy New Year!
Pat Marshall
Belthil142

Greetings. I have just crawled out from hibernation under a pile of old
harps in my workshop. There must be more comfortable places.  First of
all a quiz question. Who was the first harp maker to make an extended
soundboard? (Mike Parker do not answer, because you might be able to
work this one out.) I recently found a recipe for 'composition' not the
musical kind - the stuff used for making picture frame decorations and
more  to the point the decoration on harps. If anyone is interested I
will put a file in the files section. Best wishes. Bob Pacey

Bob,

I'd like your compo recipe, please.

The earliest extended board harps that I've seen were by Lyon & Healy.
There is an approximately 1897 style 22 in my shop at the moment, and a
slightly older Style 21, both with extended boards and wooden ribs.

We did restore an Erard Gothic with an extended board several years ago,
but it appeared to me that the board was a modification of a harp that
was originally straight.  The workmanship was nice, and from the
grommets on the bass wires it appeared to me that the work could have
been by Browne & Buckwell.  It had a nice piece of figured walnut veneer
on the face of the board.

Howard Bryan

pendragonwriter wrote:

> Greetings. I have just crawled out from hibernation under a pile of old
> harps in my workshop. There must be more comfortable places. First of
> all a quiz question. Who was the first harp maker to make an extended
> soundboard? (Mike Parker do not answer, because you might be able to
> work this one out.) I recently found a recipe for 'composition' not the
> musical kind - the stuff used for making picture frame decorations and
> more to the point the decoration on harps. If anyone is interested I
> will put a file in the files section. Best wishes. Bob Pacey
>
>

Well, Bob, define extended soundboard;-)

Be well and happy,

Mike


On 11 Jan 2007, at 09:39, pendragonwriter wrote:

> Greetings. I have just crawled out from hibernation under a pile of old
>  harps in my workshop. There must be more comfortable places. First of
>  all a quiz question. Who was the first harp maker to make an extended
>  soundboard? (Mike Parker do not answer, because you might be able to
>  work this one out.) I recently found a recipe for 'composition' not
> the
>  musical kind - the stuff used for making picture frame decorations and
>  more to the point the decoration on harps. If anyone is interested I
>  will put a file in the files section. Best wishes. Bob Pacey

Delveau = extended downwards. ?? Bob
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mike Parker
   To: AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:29 PM
   Subject: Re: [AntiquePedalHarps] Hello


   Well, Bob, define extended soundboard;-)

   Be well and happy,

   Mike

   On 11 Jan 2007, at 09:39, pendragonwriter wrote:

   > Greetings. I have just crawled out from hibernation under a pile of old
   > harps in my workshop. There must be more comfortable places. First of
   > all a quiz question. Who was the first harp maker to make an extended
   > soundboard? (Mike Parker do not answer, because you might be able to
   > work this one out.) I recently found a recipe for 'composition' not
   > the
   > musical kind - the stuff used for making picture frame decorations and
   > more to the point the decoration on harps. If anyone is interested I
   > will put a file in the files section. Best wishes. Bob Pacey





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wondered if that was what you were angling at... strangely enough, my
first grecian was no 21 of the Delveau 1822 patent and had the extended
soundboard and cranked pedals... nice sound, but I don't think the
extension into the bass made a deal of difference...

Mike
On 13 Jan 2007, at 08:06, Robert Pacey wrote:

> Delveau = extended downwards. ?? Bob
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Mike Parker
>  To: AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:29 PM
>  Subject: Re: [AntiquePedalHarps] Hello
>
>  Well, Bob, define extended soundboard;-)
>
>  Be well and happy,
>
>  Mike
>
>  On 11 Jan 2007, at 09:39, pendragonwriter wrote:
>
>  > Greetings. I have just crawled out from hibernation under a pile of
> old
>  > harps in my workshop. There must be more comfortable places. First
> of
>  > all a quiz question. Who was the first harp maker to make an
> extended
>  > soundboard? (Mike Parker do not answer, because you might be able to
>  > work this one out.) I recently found a recipe for 'composition' not
>  > the
>  > musical kind - the stuff used for making picture frame decorations
> and
>  > more to the point the decoration on harps. If anyone is interested I
>  > will put a file in the files section. Best wishes. Bob Pacey
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

Hello again Mike. I will put some pictures on the group photos. Mine came in
half and the bottom bit of the soundboard stayed in the base. It didn't actually
do much harm so it was a good chance to glue it all back. I took some pictures
of it in bits but I think I have lost them on a laptop which crashed. Now mine
is firmly glued the bass does sound a bit more resonant, but they must have been
awful to make, as the front half of the pedal box which is attached to the body
is all gouged out by hand from a solid block. I think mine is no. 56 but I don't
know whether his numbering for them was separate from his ordinary Grecians.
Best wishes. Bob
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mike Parker
   To: AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 7:01 AM
   Subject: Re: [AntiquePedalHarps] Hello


   I wondered if that was what you were angling at... strangely enough, my
   first grecian was no 21 of the Delveau 1822 patent and had the extended
   soundboard and cranked pedals... nice sound, but I don't think the
   extension into the bass made a deal of difference...

   Mike
   On 13 Jan 2007, at 08:06, Robert Pacey wrote:

   > Delveau = extended downwards. ?? Bob
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Mike Parker
   > To: AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 2:29 PM
   > Subject: Re: [AntiquePedalHarps] Hello
   >
   > Well, Bob, define extended soundboard;-)
   >
   > Be well and happy,
   >
   > Mike
   >
   > On 11 Jan 2007, at 09:39, pendragonwriter wrote:
   >
   > > Greetings. I have just crawled out from hibernation under a pile of
   > old
   > > harps in my workshop. There must be more comfortable places. First
   > of
   > > all a quiz question. Who was the first harp maker to make an
   > extended
   > > soundboard? (Mike Parker do not answer, because you might be able to
   > > work this one out.) I recently found a recipe for 'composition' not
   > > the
   > > musical kind - the stuff used for making picture frame decorations
   > and
   > > more to the point the decoration on harps. If anyone is interested I
   > > will put a file in the files section. Best wishes. Bob Pacey
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings
I have put a picture & a plan of Delveau's patent harp in the photos.
Sorry the drawing has not come out very well. (If you want a better
copy get in touch.) His idea was to extend the soundboard downwards
into the front of the pedal box, which was fixed to the body. Only the
back half of the pedal box come off for adjusment. The pedals then had
to be bent cranked to go under the soundboard and the pedal rods were
more splayed at the bottom. Hence the lyre at the bottom of the pillar.
The one in the photo was Mike Parker's & was no. 21 mine is 54. Mine
came in half recently when the soundboard pulled out of the base, but
it didn't do much harm and it meant I could get inside to glue it all
back & it seems ok. I have seen about four others so they are a bit
rare. Best wishes. Bob Pacey

--- In AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com, "dorianllywelyn"
<dorianllywelyn@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know whether Tim Hampson is still making harps? He
> produced a reproduction single-action Erard harp a couple of years
ago but
> his former website is now down.  Does anyone have a contact address
for
> him?

A late reply. Yes, I believe Tim Hampson is still making harps. I have
a friend in Bere Ferrers who visited him recently. You have probably
found out by now but just in case:His coordinates are:
Tim Hampson Harp Maker
Tavy Court,Bere Ferrers,
Yelverton,Devon,PL20 7JX
UK
1822840820

Hello Howard. I have scanned the two recipes & put them on as
photographs. They are a bit small but if you save them on to your hard
disc & look at them with a photo programme they should enlarge. If you
can't do that let me know & I will try another way. I like the bit in
the second one about cleaning gilding with gin. Not tried that.  They
are from Workshop Reciepts By Ernest Spon, 1875.   Best wishes. Bob
Pacey.

Thanks!  I downloaded them, will see if Photoshop will let me read them.

Howard

pendragonwriter wrote:

> Hello Howard. I have scanned the two recipes & put them on as
> photographs. They are a bit small but if you save them on to your hard
> disc & look at them with a photo programme they should enlarge. If you
> can't do that let me know & I will try another way. I like the bit in
> the second one about cleaning gilding with gin. Not tried that. They
> are from Workshop Reciepts By Ernest Spon, 1875. Best wishes. Bob
> Pacey.
>
>

Hello,
Could one of you tell me what is the difference betweem a Gothic and a
Grecian beside the number of Strings? My Grosjean Gothic has a 44th
hole (F) that has a fourchette but no disc mechanism.
Ps Think I'll try that gin trick on the pedal box and if it doesn't
work I'll add tonic and drink it !
Many thanks
Pat

A 44-string Gothic is a Grecian in Gothic drag.  Use the 1829 string
gage.  The bottom string on most of these harps was a drone, just like
the two bottom strings on modern concert grand harps.

The early Gothics and later Ladie's Gothics were lightly strung, like
Grecians.  The later Gothics, with 47 strings, can use a little heavier
strings, but stay away from the modern steel-core wires.  All of them
used gut 5th octave F and G strings, which are available from Vanderbilt
Music in the US.  If you want to see the gage look at my web site,
www.hbryan.com, where they are shown.

Howard

Pat Marshall wrote:

> Hello,
> Could one of you tell me what is the difference betweem a Gothic and a
> Grecian beside the number of Strings? My Grosjean Gothic has a 44th
> hole (F) that has a fourchette but no disc mechanism.
> Ps Think I'll try that gin trick on the pedal box and if it doesn't
> work I'll add tonic and drink it !
> Many thanks
> Pat
>
>

_http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3
AIT&viewitem=&item=140073213463&rd=1&rd=1_
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&vi\
ewitem=&item=140073213463&rd=1&rd
=1)


At first look, it looks like a straight SB harp...but upon closer look it
has no action or any of that, so either that was removed or it never  existed.
It is small...around 3 feet.  I was wondering if anyone has  seen something
like it before.

Evangeline


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Howard,
I should have specified that the 44th hole is actually the first one
at the top. I did put a string in it but the angle is different from
all the others and I was wondering why it was there in the first
place. The bottom string is a worker-bee E and not a drone! I did
get Grecian gauge gut and filament-covered base strings from
Salopian Strings in England and she has a lovely mellow voice!
Pat

. --- In AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com, Howard Bryan
<howard@...> wrote:
>
> A 44-string Gothic is a Grecian in Gothic drag.  Use the 1829
string
> gage.  The bottom string on most of these harps was a drone, just
like
> the two bottom strings on modern concert grand harps.
>
> The early Gothics and later Ladie's Gothics were lightly strung,
like
> Grecians.  The later Gothics, with 47 strings, can use a little
heavier
> strings, but stay away from the modern steel-core wires.  All of
them
> used gut 5th octave F and G strings, which are available from
Vanderbilt
> Music in the US.  If you want to see the gage look at my web site,
> www.hbryan.com, where they are shown.
>
> Howard
>
> Pat Marshall wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > Could one of you tell me what is the difference betweem a Gothic
and a
> > Grecian beside the number of Strings? My Grosjean Gothic has a
44th
> > hole (F) that has a fourchette but no disc mechanism.
> > Ps Think I'll try that gin trick on the pedal box and if it
doesn't
> > work I'll add tonic and drink it !
> > Many thanks
> > Pat
> >
> >
>

Hi there,

'Ladies Gothics' are generally 44 string instruments...usually made on
the Grecian basis, but some have recessed pedals like full size
Gothics. The Erat ones have lovely little dragon feet...not crouched
like on full sized ones, but climbing down the pedal box... very sweet!

I'm a bit confused.... you say it has a fourchette but no disk... erm,
the disk* is* the fourchette.

May grecians have been extended by having a top F added, but I don't
know of any 44 string models with a functioning mechanism above E.

Full size Gothics basically fall into English and French patterns. The
English is the earlier design and is much more slightly built and
graceful, and the pillar is always decorated with vertical bars and
diaper medalions. The French pattern kicks in about 1880 and gets big
and heavy...and thats when the spiral pillars et al come in... and
often have hounds instead of dragons on the front feet... but they
still didn't correct the design of the figure with the harp on the
capital.. strings to pillar all the way

Be well and happy,

Mike


On 17 Jan 2007, at 14:36, Pat Marshall wrote:

> Thanks Howard,
>  I should have specified that the 44th hole is actually the first one
>  at the top. I did put a string in it but the angle is different from
>  all the others and I was wondering why it was there in the first
>  place. The bottom string is a worker-bee E and not a drone! I did
>  get Grecian gauge gut and filament-covered base strings from
>  Salopian Strings in England and she has a lovely mellow voice!
>  Pat
>
>  . --- In AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com, Howard Bryan
>  <howard@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > A 44-string Gothic is a Grecian in Gothic drag. Use the 1829
>  string
>  > gage. The bottom string on most of these harps was a drone, just
>  like
>  > the two bottom strings on modern concert grand harps.
>  >
>  > The early Gothics and later Ladie's Gothics were lightly strung,
>  like
>  > Grecians. The later Gothics, with 47 strings, can use a little
>  heavier
>  > strings, but stay away from the modern steel-core wires. All of
>  them
>  > used gut 5th octave F and G strings, which are available from
>  Vanderbilt
>  > Music in the US. If you want to see the gage look at my web site,
>  > www.hbryan.com, where they are shown.
>  >
>  > Howard
>  >
>  > Pat Marshall wrote:
>  >
>  > > Hello,
>  > > Could one of you tell me what is the difference betweem a Gothic
>  and a
>  > > Grecian beside the number of Strings? My Grosjean Gothic has a
>  44th
>  > > hole (F) that has a fourchette but no disc mechanism.
>  > > Ps Think I'll try that gin trick on the pedal box and if it
>  doesn't
>  > > work I'll add tonic and drink it !
>  > > Many thanks
>  > > Pat
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>
>
>

Sorry about the terminology! I meant, perhaps, the pin (?)..anyway,
I have added a photo of it to my album to show you. Basically, it
has no disc mechanism, depressing the F pedal does not change it.
For your interest I have also included a picture of the Grosjean's
foot..not as sweet as a dragon's though.
I have also added a picture of the capital(?)Those crowns are brand
new and were obviously put there recently for the auction. I can't
understand why, unless the holes were already there. I have checked
the internet for photos of Grosjean harps but they are alway the
more ornate style. Mike,if you(or anyone else) has a picture of a
simpler one like mine, I would like to see it,
Many thanks
Pat
--- In AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com, Mike Parker <mike@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> 'Ladies Gothics' are generally 44 string instruments...usually
made on
> the Grecian basis, but some have recessed pedals like full size
> Gothics. The Erat ones have lovely little dragon feet...not
crouched
> like on full sized ones, but climbing down the pedal box... very
sweet!
>
> I'm a bit confused.... you say it has a fourchette but no disk...
erm,
> the disk* is* the fourchette.
>
> May grecians have been extended by having a top F added, but I
don't
> know of any 44 string models with a functioning mechanism above E.
>
> Full size Gothics basically fall into English and French patterns.
The
> English is the earlier design and is much more slightly built and
> graceful, and the pillar is always decorated with vertical bars
and
> diaper medalions. The French pattern kicks in about 1880 and gets
big
> and heavy...and thats when the spiral pillars et al come in... and
> often have hounds instead of dragons on the front feet... but they
> still didn't correct the design of the figure with the harp on the
> capital.. strings to pillar all the way
>
> Be well and happy,
>
> Mike
>
>
> On 17 Jan 2007, at 14:36, Pat Marshall wrote:
>
> > Thanks Howard,
> >  I should have specified that the 44th hole is actually the
first one
> >  at the top. I did put a string in it but the angle is different
from
> >  all the others and I was wondering why it was there in the first
> >  place. The bottom string is a worker-bee E and not a drone! I
did
> >  get Grecian gauge gut and filament-covered base strings from
> >  Salopian Strings in England and she has a lovely mellow voice!
> >  Pat
> >
> >  . --- In AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com, Howard Bryan
> >  <howard@> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > A 44-string Gothic is a Grecian in Gothic drag. Use the 1829
> >  string
> >  > gage. The bottom string on most of these harps was a drone,
just
> >  like
> >  > the two bottom strings on modern concert grand harps.
> >  >
> >  > The early Gothics and later Ladie's Gothics were lightly
strung,
> >  like
> >  > Grecians. The later Gothics, with 47 strings, can use a little
> >  heavier
> >  > strings, but stay away from the modern steel-core wires. All
of
> >  them
> >  > used gut 5th octave F and G strings, which are available from
> >  Vanderbilt
> >  > Music in the US. If you want to see the gage look at my web
site,
> >  > www.hbryan.com, where they are shown.
> >  >
> >  > Howard
> >  >
> >  > Pat Marshall wrote:
> >  >
> >  > > Hello,
> >  > > Could one of you tell me what is the difference betweem a
Gothic
> >  and a
> >  > > Grecian beside the number of Strings? My Grosjean Gothic
has a
> >  44th
> >  > > hole (F) that has a fourchette but no disc mechanism.
> >  > > Ps Think I'll try that gin trick on the pedal box and if it
> >  doesn't
> >  > > work I'll add tonic and drink it !
> >  > > Many thanks
> >  > > Pat
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi there

you have a lovely looking instrument there! It's design is one of the
very special evolutionary dead ends that happen in the harp world,
being more Strawberry Hill gothic than the more usual Gothic pattern
with low relief figures and the pierced garter. At a guess I would put
it mid 1830's, but could be as late as 1860ish. The crowns may be
replacements, but it certainly may have had had something there... I
have seen Tudor roses and stars, crowns would be equally fitting I
guess. The only other maker I know of who made this style of harp was
Blazedell, but they tend to have delicate raised tracery.

The last one like it I saw up for sale in London went for £6000, and
that was a few years back and not working... its a very rare beast!

Be well and happy

MIke
On 17 Jan 2007, at 19:50, Pat Marshall wrote:

> Sorry about the terminology! I meant, perhaps, the pin (?)..anyway,
>  I have added a photo of it to my album to show you. Basically, it
>  has no disc mechanism, depressing the F pedal does not change it.
>  For your interest I have also included a picture of the Grosjean's
>  foot..not as sweet as a dragon's though.
>  I have also added a picture of the capital(?)Those crowns are brand
>  new and were obviously put there recently for the auction. I can't
>  understand why, unless the holes were already there. I have checked
>  the internet for photos of Grosjean harps but they are alway the
>  more ornate style. Mike,if you(or anyone else) has a picture of a
>  simpler one like mine, I would like to see it,
>  Many thanks
>  Pat

Mike,
You might be interested in the harp's history. It belonged to a
relative of Sir William Reid Dick,the famous Victorian sculptor.
One of his sculptures was auctioned off at the Estate sale as well.
It went for about $16,000 I believe. I paid $1,800 for the harp. I
was bidding against a dealer who,I found out later, wanted to sell
her to an interior decorator! The harp was brought to Canada in 1914
and was at some point, forgotten in a basement for many years until
the sale.  The auctioneer gave me this background but due to a
confidentiality agreement could not give me the name of the family.
Paul Knoke gave me the knowledge and courage to restring it myself
and I am so grateful for that.
I have to ask you what a "pierced garter" is...just looked through
your book to find out but no luck.
Thanks
Pat

Thanks
--- In AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com, Mike Parker <mike@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi there
>
> you have a lovely looking instrument there! It's design is one of
the
> very special evolutionary dead ends that happen in the harp world,
> being more Strawberry Hill gothic than the more usual Gothic
pattern
> with low relief figures and the pierced garter. At a guess I would
put
> it mid 1830's, but could be as late as 1860ish. The crowns may be
> replacements, but it certainly may have had had something there...
I
> have seen Tudor roses and stars, crowns would be equally fitting I
> guess. The only other maker I know of who made this style of harp
was
> Blazedell, but they tend to have delicate raised tracery.
>
> The last one like it I saw up for sale in London went for £6000,
and
> that was a few years back and not working... its a very rare beast!
>
> Be well and happy
>
> MIke
> On 17 Jan 2007, at 19:50, Pat Marshall wrote:
>
> > Sorry about the terminology! I meant, perhaps, the pin
(?)..anyway,
> >  I have added a photo of it to my album to show you. Basically,
it
> >  has no disc mechanism, depressing the F pedal does not change
it.
> >  For your interest I have also included a picture of the
Grosjean's
> >  foot..not as sweet as a dragon's though.
> >  I have also added a picture of the capital(?)Those crowns are
brand
> >  new and were obviously put there recently for the auction. I
can't
> >  understand why, unless the holes were already there. I have
checked
> >  the internet for photos of Grosjean harps but they are alway the
> >  more ornate style. Mike,if you(or anyone else) has a picture of
a
> >  simpler one like mine, I would like to see it,
> >  Many thanks
> >  Pat
>

You did very well... and thanks for saving it from the decorator!!!

If you look up 'Gothic harp' (as opposed to gothic harp, which is the
little breyed diatonic instrument of the 13th-17thC), what you are most
likely to find is an instrument with a parallel hexagonal capital,
generally referred to as a 'lantern', with low relief gesso figures and
twiddly (technical term there) mouldings. Above the figures is  the
'pierced garter', which frames them and consists of short posts with
finials hanging down at each point of the hexagon, and with little
'fences' between then, consisting of pierced gothic arches, each one
with a little shield at the apex, making a 3D capping around the
lantern. Its extremely fragile and lots of Gothics have lost them.... I
spend quite a bit of time putting them back. I believe Wurlizer started
using cast alloy ones as they were stronger than the compo

You can just about make it on on this picture

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://
www.niebischandtree.co.uk/index_files/image4261.jpg&imgrefurl=http://
www.niebischandtree.co.uk/index_files/
Page1682.htm&h=216&w=103&sz=7&hl=en&start=5&tbnid=1VpYrSXq4ydIOM:
&tbnh=107&tbnw=51&prev=/
images%3Fq%3DErard%2BGothic%2Bharp%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en
%26newwindow%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DG

its the layer of wedding cake immediately above the figures. This type
of Gothic is one I have never lusted after... Grecians are more
consistent mechanically, and, I think, prettier... yours on the other
hand......

Be well and happy,

Mike
On 18 Jan 2007, at 03:05, Pat Marshall wrote:

> Mike,
>  You might be interested in the harp's history. It belonged to a
>  relative of Sir William Reid Dick,the famous Victorian sculptor.
>  One of his sculptures was auctioned off at the Estate sale as well.
>  It went for about $16,000 I believe. I paid $1,800 for the harp. I
>  was bidding against a dealer who,I found out later, wanted to sell
>  her to an interior decorator! The harp was brought to Canada in 1914
>  and was at some point, forgotten in a basement for many years until
>  the sale. The auctioneer gave me this background but due to a
>  confidentiality agreement could not give me the name of the family.
>  Paul Knoke gave me the knowledge and courage to restring it myself
>  and I am so grateful for that.
>  I have to ask you what a "pierced garter" is...just looked through
>  your book to find out but no luck.
>  Thanks
>  Pat
>
>  Thanks
>  --- In AntiquePedalHarps@yahoogroups.com, Mike Parker <mike@...>
>  wrote:
>  >
>  > Hi there
>  >
>  > you have a lovely looking instrument there! It's design is one of
>  the
>  > very special evolutionary dead ends that happen in the harp world,
>  > being more Strawberry Hill gothic than the more usual Gothic
>  pattern
>  > with low relief figures and the pierced garter. At a guess I would
>  put
>  > it mid 1830's, but could be as late as 1860ish. The crowns may be
>  > replacements, but it certainly may have had had something there...
>  I
>  > have seen Tudor roses and stars, crowns would be equally fitting I
>  > guess. The only other maker I know of who made this style of harp
>  was
>  > Blazedell, but they tend to have delicate raised tracery.
>  >
>  > The last one like it I saw up for sale in London went for £6000,
>  and
>  > that was a few years back and not working... its a very rare beast!
>  >
>  > Be well and happy
>  >
>  > MIke
>  > On 17 Jan 2007, at 19:50, Pat Marshall wrote:
>  >
>  > > Sorry about the terminology! I meant, perhaps, the pin
>  (?)..anyway,
>  > > I have added a photo of it to my album to show you. Basically,
>  it
>  > > has no disc mechanism, depressing the F pedal does not change
>  it.
>  > > For your interest I have also included a picture of the
>  Grosjean's
>  > > foot..not as sweet as a dragon's though.
>  > > I have also added a picture of the capital(?)Those crowns are
>  brand
>  > > new and were obviously put there recently for the auction. I
>  can't
>  > > understand why, unless the holes were already there. I have
>  checked
>  > > the internet for photos of Grosjean harps but they are alway the
>  > > more ornate style. Mike,if you(or anyone else) has a picture of
>  a
>  > > simpler one like mine, I would like to see it,
>  > > Many thanks
>  > > Pat
>  >
>
>
>

Mike, et al,

So THAT is what a "garter" is!  I have also heard them called a
baldachin, or baldachino, though they don't fit the definition in my
dictionary exactly.

Here is where I wish I kept better records.  We've done a number of
Gothics, but I didn't make any notes on the materials or design of these
details.

The Gothics presently in the shop include:
     No. 2281 (Paris) also numbered 6560 (London), 46 strings, garter of
stamped thin brass
     No. 6368 (London) 46 strings, thin stamped brass
     No. 6793 (London) 46 strings, missing
     No. 1816 (Paris) 45 strings, compo, badly damaged
     J.F. Browne "Ladies Gothic" 44 strings dated 1856  compo
     Wurlitzer DDX,   No. 1027,  47 strings, heavy brass

We've seen cast pot metal, compo, thin stamped brass, and solid brass
piercings on Erards.   The earlier harps, up to about 1875, seem to have
compo.  Someone must have finally learned that "fragile" is an
understatement, and they started using more robust materials.

Should anyone need a replacement, we made molds and fabricate
replacements of a tough plastic.  Gilded they look like the originals,
but no conservator would make the mistake of thinking our replacements
were Erard's work once the gold was scraped away.  I'll be glad to
supply these to anyone who might need them, with the understanding that
ours may be a different size.  The harp world only discovered
interchangeable parts about 20 years ago.

Something that we have never seen in original form is the ornaments for
the top of the column.  Were these of compo?  The English harps with
original necks have a 1/4-20 threaded insert in the end of the neck that
is enclosed in the column.  The French harps that we've worked on have a
~6mm unthreaded hole, slightly tapered.  Any ideas?

Thanks!

Howard Bryan