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CC Influence on Django?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #3047 of 3775 |
I just picked up the French label complete Django Reinhardt discs,
which present everything the man recorded in chronological order. I
also read an excellent biography.

When considered whether CC influenced Django's guitar playing, you
first need to determine when he could have heard the records. When
WWII started at the end of August 1939, Django and the Quintette of
the Hot Club of France were on tour in the UK. Grappelli stayed in
England for the duration, while Django went back to France, where he
spent the war years.

So, if Django heard the Goodman small group records with Christian, it
was in France during WWII. The "phony war" period ended in May 1940,
when Germany defeated France and occupied most of it.

Under the Nazis, French jazz was tolerated and Django reached new
heights of popularity at home. While many other gypsys were rounded
up and sent to concentration camps, Reinhardt was not.

Charles Delauney and the Hot Club imported jazz discs from America and
this probably continued until America entered the war late in 1941.
So, even under Nazi occupation or in Vichy France, chances are
excellent that Django heard the Goodman small group sides with CC
featured.

Interestingly, during the war years Django fronted a big band
featuring a clarinet player, and recorded several sides very much in
the American mold, much like contemporary music made by Goodman or his
rival Artie Shaw.

Some of these recordings include "riff" tunes, where Django's playing
seems definitely influenced by Charlie. In particular, I would cite
the tracks Swing 42, recorded in 1942, and Place de Brouker, from
1943. The former is a small group, while the latter is big band.

Of course, there are lots of differences. It still sounds like Django
is playing his Selmer acoustic, so naturally he doesn't have Charlie's
sustain. Django apparently started using a pickup and amp with the
Selmer during the war years, at least on stage where being heard above
the band was often a problem. But otherwise, chances are he didn't
really play an electric guitar until after WWII.

So, while Django was apparently influenced by CC, at least as
evidenced by a few WWII recordings, he was also influenced by many
other things. You can hear a lot of Goodman and Shaw in the big band
recordings, but we also know Django was a big fan of Ellington. His
conception of music was greater than just being a guitar soloist.

He was a composer (although he could not read music) and during this
period envisioned grander works on a symphonic scale, much like
Ellington. After the war, he bacame a true bop fan and could play
comfortably in the new style, although he could and did continue to
play swing.

Interestingly, when Goodman toured France around 1950, Django jammed
with him in rehearsals, but failed to show up for the actual
performance. There is the possibility that while Django had moved on
musically, Goodman had not, so the two were no longer playing on the
same level.

Chances are, had Charlie lived, a split with Goodman would have been
inevitable, once bop hit, Charlie would have been pulled in that
direction and away from Goodman, who did not understand or appreciate
the new music.



Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:54 pm

goodfordates
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Message #3047 of 3775 |
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I just picked up the French label complete Django Reinhardt discs, which present everything the man recorded in chronological order. I also read an excellent...
Snatch N. Grabster
goodfordates
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Jan 18, 2007
10:57 pm

... The art of Django was acheved since 1935, and no influence from CC can be found. Sorry. Jean-Pierre "lbop" Bourgeois www.jpbourgeois.org...
Jean-Pierre Bourgeois...
lbopfr
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Jan 19, 2007
12:20 pm

Django had no influence on Charles' playing. CC did however influence Django. You can hear many of CC's phrases in Django's solos around 1950 after he...
LeoValdes
valdes037
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Jan 27, 2007
8:58 pm

What Django Reinhardt played in 1935 was not the same as what he played in 1953. Also, he wasn't working in a vacuum. He was part of a music scene that drew...
Snatch N. Grabster
goodfordates
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Jan 28, 2007
1:28 am

Hi folks Django was before CC in any way. He was born before and started his recording career long before CC. And CC knew reportedly a Django solo, St. Louis...
howldk
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Jan 29, 2007
8:38 am

Ole, Now, now! Play the game! Please read the original postings #2081 onward and you'll see that you weren't put down....you conceded - #2087 wasn't it? Please...
bopgtrist
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Jan 29, 2007
7:01 pm

Peter Are we ever going to discuss in detail the actual runs etc of the DR solo and compare them to CC's licks. It doesn't seem very likely - there seem to be...
howldk
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Jan 29, 2007
11:01 pm

Dear peter Now you must excuse me. I didn't see your PPS and PPPS before writing the previous message. If you honestly want to see the CC phrases in the DR...
howldk
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Jan 29, 2007
11:15 pm

Django's biographer says he heard the latest Goodman swing records while back in France during the early 1940s, and was influenced by them in his choice of...
Snatch N. Grabster
goodfordates
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Jan 30, 2007
6:45 am

Ole, The problem here is that CC was undoubtedly influenced by horn players, surely we all accept that. You say that you have found a number of instances where...
bopgtrist
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Jan 30, 2007
1:08 pm

... As astonishing as it may seem to those of you who know our history, I agree completely with Peter on this. But why doesn't someone post some clips or...
garry_hansen
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Jan 31, 2007
4:45 am

I previously cited a couple of early 40s tunes where I heard an influence. I don't have access to transcriptions, but the songs were Swing 42, recorded in...
Snatch N. Grabster
goodfordates
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Jan 31, 2007
7:38 am

Hi Snatch I've now been listening to the recordings that you mention and I can't really hear any clear CC influence. There might be a few times some licks ...
Ole Lund
howldk
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Feb 1, 2007
9:08 pm

Django was in England when the European war started with the invasion of Poland on September 1, 1939. He returned to France but that country was not invaded...
Snatch N. Grabster
goodfordates
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Feb 3, 2007
8:52 am

... <garry_hansen@...> wrote: As astonishing as it may seem to those of you who know our history, I agree completely with Peter on this. But why doesn't...
bopgtrist
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Jan 31, 2007
11:56 am

I thought Garry's note was quite civil. I didn't interpret anything offensive about it. I thought the discussion had been going quite well and I'd be sorry...
Frank Garza
JJJAZZZ
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Jan 31, 2007
3:11 pm

Not that my opinion matters one bit .....I don't find anything at all wrong with Garry's statement. Please , your making something out of nothing here. Peter...
Tom Cotter
tchlfxvt
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Feb 1, 2007
2:11 am

... comment ... rest ... Huh? What the heck are you talking about, Peter? - Garry...
garry_hansen
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Jan 31, 2007
10:29 pm

Can't we all just get along, everybody?...
Snatch N. Grabster
goodfordates
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Feb 1, 2007
12:38 am
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