________________________________________________________________________
10a. FW: Regarding "Barbershop Nerd's Trivia Book - BACK FOR NASHVILLE!"
Posted by: "Steve Morin" steve.morin@... dicebass
Date: Tue May 6, 2008 3:04 pm ((PDT))

To our fellow Barbershoppers, friends, family and supporters

Well it's become apparent that that my labor of love - The Junkie
Book - has fallen victim to copyright infringement, so I feel I
must set the record straight. I have seen several emails from
a woman named Tanya (Don't know her last name) advertising a
VERY similar book - in fact - it's exactly the same as mine.
It's unfortunate that Tanya feels the need to copy my publication
and advertise it to represent the same as my "Junkie Book" that
is copyright protected by the way.

For the past 18 years I have created the International Competition
Encyclopedia for the Barbershop Junkie - aka The Junkie Book,
and as all of you know - I have done so as a fundraising effort,
most currently for the Larry Ajer Tuesday Night party held every
year at International. In years past the proceeds went to various
"youth activities" for my husband's chapter - The Salem Senate-aires
- until the passing of our dear friend and mentor Larry Ajer and we
came up with a special concert at International every year to honor
his name and his efforts of sending quartets to Harmony College.
Because of the enormous effort this concert takes, and the costs
involved, I decided to continue making my Junkie Book but have
the proceeds help with some of the costs involved in the Larry
Ajer Party - AKA Tuesday Night Party, and the goal someday is to
have the book fund the entire party - but with folks like Tanya
stealing my publication layout and design - it makes it extremely
hard to accomplish.

Never the less, this year will be no different - I am planning
on selling the "Nashville Edition" of the "Junkie Book" and I'm
asking for your support and sincerely hope that all of you will
continue to support my efforts. In the process, you will help to
raise funds to offset some of the expenses for the Tuesday Night
Party - we hope she doesn't steal this too.

I would also like to mention that I truly appreciate the support
I've received from all of the quartets, choruses as well as Miller
Photography and International Headquarters over the past 18 years
in production of the Junkie Book, and I want you to know this
other publication (listed below) does not reflect any support from
me or my husband nor did we give permission to copy our format,
design and layout.

Thank again for your support, yours in harmony-

Robben Morin

Publisher and designer of the "International Competition
Encyclopedia for the Barbershop Junkie" aka "The Junkie Book".

-----Original Message-----

From: bbshop@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bbshop@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Tanya

Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:01 AM

To: bbshop@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [bbshop] Barbershop Nerd's Trivia Book - BACK FOR NASHVILLE!

As the flowers start to bloom, and the transition begins from winter
to spring, a young woman's fancy turn to thoughts of BARBERSHOP
and the International convention! I'm happy to announce that "The
Barbershop Nerd's Contest Scores Book" is BACK FOR NASHVILLE! This
is the 8th consecutive year of producing the Ultimate Barbershop
Fan Trivia Book! This is the guide you need to watch the webcast
or attend the convention. Please feel free to forward this e-mail
to your chapters, friends, quartet mates, anyone who you think
might be interested!


Books can be ordered via e-bay at:

http://stores.ebay.com/thebarbershopnerdsbook

Information Included:

1) Statistical information on all FIFTY FOUR Qualifying Quartets
and all TWENTY EIGHT Qualifying Choruses for Nashville. Up to 6
years of historical data per quartet and chorus!

2) Be an arm-chair judge! There are places to write YOUR scores,
as well as the official scores. Mark who YOU think will make the
top 20, top 10 and medals, then compare with official scores in
between rounds.

3) Available in two formats - spiral bound 8.5 x 5.5 or 8.5 x 11
three ring binder bound (alows you to rearrange quartets between
contests) Both are a bargain at $15 + Shipping.

4) Printed in full color, on high quality paper and professionally
bound.

Ordering available until June 23, which allows for time to ship
the book to you via USPS Priority Mail. (Flat Rate: $4.60 to US
for one book, $9.00 to Canada for 1 book. 2-10 BOOKS Flat Rate:
$8.95 US, $23.00 Canada) These are the EXACT rates quoted on the
USPS website, there are no handling fees! (I'm sorry, Canadians!
Gather some friends and take advantage of the flat rate box to
ship up to 10 books at a flat rate that will result in discounts
for all!)

All books will be mailed USPS Priority mail between June 16 -
June 23 (June 23 is the last day for shipping), and the buyer will
be provided with shipping confirmation information. As always,
I will fill confirmed orders with just a few "extras" for those
who say "I forgot" once they get to Nashville. I'm still working
out a dedicated pick-up location, and will update you with that
information once I work it out.

If you have any questions, please drop me a note, I'm flexible on
working with you for onsite delivery, payment options, answering
questions about shipping, etc. I know some people do not like
ebay/paypal as a method of ordering, I'll work with you on that
too, please just let me know how I can help! trr110671 @ yahoo.com
(remove spaces)

Have a great day!

Tanya Royer

"Alis volat propriis"

http://trr110671.multiply.com <http://trr110671.multiply.com/>

________________________________________________________________________
10b. Re: FW: Regarding "Barbershop Nerd's Trivia Book - BACK FOR NASHVILL
Posted by: "Tanya R" trr110671@... trr110671
Date: Tue May 6, 2008 3:21 pm ((PDT))

Color me shocked. I will refrain from making public attacks in
this forum, and will remove the ebay listing immediately, with
refunds issued immediately.

It's never been my intent to harm anyone, or characterize anyone
by doing something I love to do, which is track statistics in
barbershop. I'm sorry that this has been received so negatively
(and so publically).

In Harmony,

Tanya Royer

________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: copyright infringement
Posted by: "Kurt Boutin" kboutin@... kboutin
Date: Wed May 7, 2008 5:34 am ((PDT))

I responded privately to Robben, but before this gets out of hand on the
Harmonet, I wanted to say something here. There IS no thievery involved.
Tanya put together the initial book during the year that Robben couldn't.
It had a bunch of the same information (as you'd expect) but culled from
Tanya's private database/Excel files. It also had a bunch of information
that the Junkie Book didn't. When the next year rolled around, Tanya had a
number of people ask if she'd be doing another one and it grew from there.

To state that there's thievery involved is just ridiculous. Is this a
competitive product? Sure! Is that a bad thing? I don't think so.

Personally, I'd thought about buying both books this year to do a comparison
and see who is more accurate with the info (I've noticed inaccuracies in
both). I'm not sure I will now.

And just in case there's any question: Yes. Tanya is a good friend of mine,
though, I'm not sure that's all that relevant in this case. Buy what you
like. I'd think there'd be room in the market for alternatives.

Kurt
------
Kurt Boutin
Bass, Granite Statesmen, NED
Bass, On Air, NED

2b. Re: copyright infringement
Posted by: "Lindsay CHARTIER" queenlindsayboo@... lindsayechartier
Date: Wed May 7, 2008 6:07 am ((PDT))

Kurt,

I too have responded privately to Robben but agree with you on all counts.

I have bought the Junkie Book for several years and I very much appreciate
the effort that is put into creating the final product.

As you mention, several years ago the Junkie Book was unavailable and in a
private conversation with Tanya I had mentioned that it was a useful tool to
have and I would miss it. Tanya told me that she had been compiling stats
for several years for a few of her close friends and if I wanted I could
have a copy that year. I was very thankful to have an alternative to the
Junkie Book when it was not available.

Last year I purchased both items - The Junkie Book and the PDF file of
Tanya's stats that I printed myself and put in a binder. There are benefits
and differences of both books - as you say - not everything is the same.
Again I was very thankful to have Tanya's because as it turns out, my Junkie
Book did not arrive at my house in time for my departure for Denver, and so
it sat in my mailbox, untouched and unusable for the convention week, until
I got home.

As I said, I appreciate all of the work that gets put into the Junkie book
and I have supported it for many years, and I also hope that people can
appreciate that from past experience having the second item available has
been a saving grace for some of us when the Junkie Book was unavailable to
us for one reason or another.

Lindsay

________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: copyright infringement
Posted by: "plcmat" snester13456@... plcmat
Date: Wed May 7, 2008 8:42 am ((PDT))

Ditto to what Kurt says. It's publicly available data (as a BHS
member it is as much my data as anyone else's) and the books, while
similar conceptually, are not the same.

Saying this is copyright infringement is like saying there should
only be one book about calculus.

I appreciate the efforts of both parties involved to make
International more interesting for attendees, especially those
people who don't go every year like I do.

Steve Nester
Sounds of Concord
Bass, Concord eXpress

________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: copyright infringement
Posted by: "The McAlexanders" bradnann@... themcalexanders
Date: Wed May 7, 2008 4:57 pm ((PDT))

--- In bbshop@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Boutin" <kboutin@...> wrote:
> Personally, I'd thought about buying both books this year to do a
> comparison and see who is more accurate with the info ...

Yep, I'm going to confess publicly, too.

I'm a big barbershop stats geek, and so is my young barbershopper
son. I do buy both books. In fact, I've been buying two copies of
each book each year, and giving him one. (And I was really glad we
had a backup of each one when I left BOTH my Robben book and my Tanya
book in the seat-back pocket on the airplane coming home from Orlando
last year, where I'd gone with my dance competition-bound daughter
instead of being able to go to Denver to watch my husband and son mic
test for the chorus contest sessions. Sigh.

Have you ever tried to explain to a baggage-claim-desk lady exactly
what a Junkies Book and a BarberFan Book are when you're trying to
convince her that these are like GOLD, and well worth sending
somebody back on the plane to search for? I still don't think she
quite gets it ... )

We also order two copies of the similar Keepin' Score book that
Pacific Sound Chorus publishes every year for the Sweet Adelines
convention. In fact, I buy them even when we're not going to the
conventions, because we like to have them when we listen to the
webcasts, too.

Heck, if somebody else published another book, we'd probably buy two
copies of that, too! Then all we'd need is for someone to
sell "barbershop stats geek" backpacks, so we'd have something in
which to carry all those books around ...


I'm just like Lindsay. (Scary thought!) (Love ya, Linds!) I found
out about Tanya's book the year Robben didn't do hers, and so I
bought Tanya's. Patrick and I would have been lost without it!

And after several years of exchanging emails with Tanya about
Harmony, Inc. web and publications stuff back when she and I were
both active members, we finally got to meet in person at the
convention in Indianapolis when she hung out in our Publications
Office, because I'd offered her a corner of one of our tables to use
to hand out the pre-ordered books. And you wouldn't believe how many
other people showed up asking if there were any extra copies. (The
few that she'd brought with her sold out very quickly.) I'm
convinced there's a huge market for both books ... It's just that not
that many people know about them, because proportionally not that
many of the convention attendees and webcast listeners are on the
Harmonet and read about them. I always have LOTS of people ask me
about them at the convention. And I point them to Robben and Tanya,
but they're usually long sold out by then.

Robben, you produce a great book. So do you, Tanya. Lots of hard
work and love are poured into both. The stats are publicly
available, and if some of the text is the same, it's probably because
the competitors have sent the same bio information to both of you.
And that's probably their own copyrighted material that they've
willingly released to each of you, since they know that both of your
books are being created for all the right reasons.

And as the mom of a kid who just absolutely inhales them, I'll fondly
remember both books, and both of you, even 30 years from now when I
think of little Patrick sitting there pouring over the books year
after year, just absolutely fascinated with them and absolutely
loving this hobby.

Oh, and one request ... I'm still waiting for you to add little stick
figures on each page so I can draw all the costumes all the guys
wear, just like I do at the Sweet Adelines conventions. Heck, maybe
you could even package the books with some colored pencils that say
SPEBSQSA and have the old logo on them (with permission, of course)
that we could use to draw the costumes. I'll bet there are a lot of
guys out there who'd buy them just for the pencils! Now there's an
idea ...

Ann McAlexander
Big Robben, Tanya, and Beth Smith Fan
Capital City Chorus, Region 4, SAI
BHS wife and mom