I have recently reinstalled my entire WinAmp and ShoutCast chain
after a HD upgrade and I am just about at the end of my rope. WinAmp
is refusing to connect to the ShoutCast server. Just about every
combination of inputs and outputs I could think of have been tried
with no luck. I really don't understand this because the last time I
installed these two programs they worked right out of the box, so to
speak, with all defaults intact and they functioned fine for over a
year. I have installed both items exactly as per the instructions.
Nobody on the WinAmp tech support board seems to know what's up with it.
     Any input appreciated. Screenshots of the setup as of this writing
may be seen at:

http://home.nc.rr.com/gttyson/shoutcast.html


     My Yahoo IM name is tyson3255 if you'd rather communicate
thataway. If there is another group more appropriate to this post,
please advise.  Thanx in advance for any input.

KL

Ladies and Gentlemen:

This is a Special Announcement.  It's Saturday night and right now the
Best of Live365 Awards is webcasting live from San Francisco.  Tune in
to see if we won!

Tune in at:

http://www.live365.com/stations/live365summit

Enjoy what will hopefully become a tradition in the years to come!

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
http://www.VoyagerRadio.com

We love internet radio, and couldn't find a guide that had schedules
and links to internet radio shows that we listened to, so we went out
and built it.  We'd like to share it with you. We're new, still adding
and changing things so please check it out and let us know of your
thoughts.

http://www.radioshowlinks.com/

A Directory of Internet Radio Shows and Stations; Listen Live or
On-Demand.  The directory includes Schedules and Stream links for Talk
Radio, Current Events, Business, the Arts, and other programming.

For example, many popular NPR and other Public Radio shows are included
in the directory, including streams directly from National Public Radio
as well as webcast internet radio stations from the NPR network.  For
example, this channel has top National Public Radio shows:
http://www.radioshowlinks.com/display.aspx?id=72783

It's all free; no registration required.  Please check it out and let
us know what you think about it and any suggestions you may have for
channels,  shows, or stations, that we should add to our Internet Radio
guide.

Thanks.

John

My apologies for my absensence; I've been extremely busy lately.
Here's the latest.

The NAB is in session:

http://www.nabshow.com/

Time Magazine recognizes Internet radio:

http://kurthanson.com/archive/news/041204/index.asp

Here's a review of digital music
players I came across today:

http://www.pcmag.com/print_article/0,1761,a=124130,00.asp

RealNetworks makes concessions for Apple (probably in an attempt to
reconcile their differences in Real's bid to combine efforts with
Apple):

http://streamingmedia.com/press/view.asp?id=2642

Read more about RealNetwork's proposal to Apple at:

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?section=Infotech&oid=49166

Liberal radio station AirAmerica had a recordbreaking debut on
Internet radio:

http://kurthanson.com/archive/news/040804/index.asp

Live365 also announced deals with ASCAP, BMI and SESAC to offer
website licensing to Internet broadcasters:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/in
dex.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20040421005756&newsLang=en

---
That's all for now!

Harold J. Johnson
Transmitting to Earth:
http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Some new Internet radio devices have hit the market.  The BT Voyager
Digital Media Player works with your PC to deliver your favorite MP3s
and Internet radio stations:

http://www.web-user.co.uk/products/prod_rev.php?rid=1876

The Reciva wireless Internet radio doesn't require the use of a PC,
making it especially attractive:

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/102/C2678/

The Reciva receives Internet radio via WiFi, so you should be able to
tune in at any Hotspotted Starbucks--just remember to bring a good
pair of headphones to block out the coffee shop's muzak!  I can
imagine also taking it along on my next road trip and plugging it into
the motel's Internet access port.

Harold J. Johnson
Transmitting to Earth at
http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Hi Larry, it's great to hear from you.  The following is my opinion and is not
necessarily that of others in
this discussion group.

MUSIC DOWNLOADS.  I think that any attempt at thwarting downloads would actually
increase the likelihood of
such action occurring.  As you're most likely aware, there has been a a nearly
revolutionary reaction against
the recording and film industries for their public campaigns against
filesharing--it seems that folks are going
to share the music whether you like it or not, and especially if you tell them
not to.  You're better off
leaving off any pronouncements.

ON-DEMAND STREAMS.  The way I see it, they're kind of a cross between Internet
radio and filesharing, and they
seem more helpful in marketing your music than harmful.  They're much akin to
the listening stations we find at
most CD stores these days, with one glaring difference--you can record these
streams.  Still, only a small
percentage of consumers will actually take the time to record the streams with
the specialized software you
need to do such a thing.

Those are my opinions.

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com


> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [InternetRadioLovers] internet radio/streaming/streaming  on
> demand/ downloads etc.
> From: Mediadrome@...
> Date: Sun, March 28, 2004 6:38 am
> To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
>
> Hi,
>
> I’m about to do a promo CD mailing to College Radio Stations.
> I don’t want the music available for downloads or on demand
> streaming.
> Is there a phrase in radioese that I can put in the press release that
> would
> indicate this?
>
>
> mediadrome
> larry kucharz
> international audiochrome, inc.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hi,

I’m about to do a promo CD mailing to College Radio Stations.
I don’t want the music available for downloads or on demand streaming.
Is there a phrase in radioese that I can put in the press release that would
indicate this?


mediadrome
larry kucharz
international audiochrome, inc.

Hi Steve,

Here's more big news regarding Live365.  Live365, along with AOL and Yahoo!,
just made
a deal with ad rep Ronning Lipsett Radio to sell in-stream ads:

http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3329511

This is good news for Internet radio, especially in the wake of Arbitron's
recent retreat
from Internet radio measurements.  The industry had some fears that Arbitron's
move
would set back Internet radio, in terms of attracting advertising dollars, but
the deal with
Ronning Lipsett is sure to get the ball rolling.  It'll be exciting to see what
happens next...

Harold J. Johnson
Transmitting to Earth - Earth's First Internet Radio Blog
http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

--- In InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com, "sdcovington2002"
<sdcovington2002@y...> wrote:
> Glad to see you have kept this group going Harold. I have enjoyed
> the conversation as of late.
>
> I think what Live 365 is doing is really cool and shows a lot of
> class. This will go a long way in promoting Internet radio. I
> started my station about 2 years ago using the Shoutcast network,
> and they have never once done a thing to help promote anything but
> their own cause and WinAmp products.  What would you expect from a
> company who is owned by AOL/TIME WARNER?
>
> Anyway, for the beginner Live 365 is a good way to go and they even
> pay the royalties for you. The only reason I ended up not using them
> is because of the limited bandwidth to broadcast at, only 56Kbps at
> the time, and the fact that they insert their on Live365 commercials.
>
> In my humble opinion, this little promotion of theirs should help
> internet radio as a whole and I wish other players would do the same
> and help draw attention to internet radio by focusing on those who
> work very hard to bring programming to the internet as well.
> Thanks,
> Steve

Glad to see you have kept this group going Harold. I have enjoyed
the conversation as of late.

I think what Live 365 is doing is really cool and shows a lot of
class. This will go a long way in promoting Internet radio. I
started my station about 2 years ago using the Shoutcast network,
and they have never once done a thing to help promote anything but
their own cause and WinAmp products.  What would you expect from a
company who is owned by AOL/TIME WARNER?

Anyway, for the beginner Live 365 is a good way to go and they even
pay the royalties for you. The only reason I ended up not using them
is because of the limited bandwidth to broadcast at, only 56Kbps at
the time, and the fact that they insert their on Live365 commercials.

In my humble opinion, this little promotion of theirs should help
internet radio as a whole and I wish other players would do the same
and help draw attention to internet radio by focusing on those who
work very hard to bring programming to the internet as well.
Thanks,
Steve

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Live365.com has really been stepping up their efforts to retain their status as
a major
player in the field of streaming audio.  A few days ago they announced their
first annual
broadcaster awards ceremony, discussed in this About.com article:

http://radio.about.com/cs/latestradionews/a/aa032304a.htm

The ceremony will take place during their first annual Broadcaster's Conference
in May in
San Francisco, California.  Here's a schedule of the event, as well as
registration
information:

http://www.live365.com/community/conference_schedule.html

I think this would be a great networking opportunity for both Live365 and
non-Live365
broadcasters.  Some well-known Internet radio stations have recently begun using
Live365's services, and the company now boasts over 20,000 broadcasters,
according to
this press release:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?
ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20040322005508&newsLang=en

I hope to see some of you at the conference!

Harold J. Johnson
Transmitting to Earth, Earth's First Internet Radio Blog
http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com/

I have been listening to internet radio for much more than a year.
Probably three years at least.
Gary Minniss

--- In InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com, Harold@V... wrote:
> I have a quick poll for everyone.  Shawn's interest in Internet
radio ratings has prompted me to do some further research, and today
I found an article discussing the findings in a report made by RRadio
Network, a division of a radio and TV ad production company called
Audio Graphics.  The report shows that nearly half of the Internet
radio audience has been listening for less than a year.  [
http://www.mediapost.com/dtls_dsp_news.cfm?newsID=241251]
>
> Less than a year!
>
> I'm interested in knowing if this number is reflected in our group
here.  So here's the poll:
>
> How many of you have been listening to Internet radio for less than
a year?
>
> Thanks for responding--I'm looking forward to learning the results!
>
> Harold J. Johnson
> Moderator, Internet Radio Lovers
> Webcaster, VoyagerRadio
> Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
>
> Tell a friend about the Internet Radio Lovers at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InternetRadioLovers/
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [InternetRadioLovers] RE: Measuring The Audience
> > From: Harold@V...
> > Date: Thu, March 04, 2004 10:39 am
> > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > I enjoyed this article.  Written from the point of view of
someone who
> > has studied audience research, it demonstrates how inaccurate the
> > ratings systems can be, while still being important to broadcast
> > industries.  Interestingly, the author makes it a point to
distance
> > streaming media from "mass" media because he doesn't want the new
form
> > of communication to fall into "the ratings trap".  In other
words, he
> > doesn't want Internet radio and other streaming media to become
like
> > traditional broadcast media.
> >
> > Makes sense to me.  The question is, should Internet radio become
a
> > "mass" media, will it be able to retain its "indie" status as
well?
> > Will their still be room for both independent stations and
corporate
> > stations in this space, as we have today?  Or will it become too
> > expensive for independent operators?
> >
> > Harold J. Johnson
> > VoyagerRadio
> > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: RE: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion
anytime/Music
> > > Law Summit West
> > > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@y...>
> > > Date: Tue, March 02, 2004 4:32 pm
> > > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Harold,
> > >
> > > The Arbitron developments will make life a bit more difficult
for ad
> > > sales folks but I think there are some interesting counter
arguments
> > > to
> > > be made against traditional Arbitron/Neilson style measurements
that
> > > might help matters.  Here is a good article regarding such:
> > > http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=5645&c=16
> > >
> > > BTW: I think Arbitron measurements in the internet radio space
were
> > > directly related to actual server logs (at least in the early
days).
> >
> > > Being such, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that the
internet
> > > broadcasting community could form an organization to provide
this
> > > service to it's members (log analysis, validation and peer
ranking).
> > >
> > > -shawn
> > >
> > > --- Harold@V... wrote:
> > > > Shawn,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not certain, but maybe we'll be able to dig up that
infomation
> > > > together.  I've always been suspect of traditional methods of
> > > > evaluating radio broadcasts, since there seems to be no way of
> > > > accuratey accessing how many people are really listening.  I
was
> > > > recently a Nielsen Family and filled out a calendar-
like "diary"
> > to
> > > > report to the Nielsen how much television I was watching.  My
> > > "diary"
> > > > is supposed to represent X number of listeners.  I suspect
> > Arbitron
> > > > uses a similar method to measure terrestrial radio
broadcasts, but
> > > > I'm not sure.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking of Arbitron, some more big news came this week.
Looks
> > like
> > > > Arbitron has stopped measuring Internet radio, as reported in
the
> > > > following article:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3319381
> > > >
> > > > I remember a few years ago when the company, known for its
> > > > measurement of traditional radio ratings, announced it would
be
> > > > measuring Internet radio.  They've apparently dropped it
because
> > > they
> > > > haven't figured out a way to make money to support
measurement of
> > > > Internet radio, though they say they'll "remain committed to
the
> > > > Internet broadcast business and continue to believe in the
> > viability
> > > > of this medium and its long-term market potential".  Well,
that's
> > > > good news, but it's alarming to see the loss of this excellent
> > > > measuring system.  I fear this may stall the arrival of some
good
> > > > advertising models for Internet radio.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know of any other companies that measure Internet
> > radio?
> > > >
> > > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > > VoyagerRadio
> > > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > > Subject: Re: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion
> > > > anytime/Music
> > > > > Law Summit West
> > > > > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@y...>
> > > > > Date: Tue, February 24, 2004 12:43 pm
> > > > > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Harold,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your last email reminded me of a question that I have had
since
> > > > > Arbitron and other companies started tracking internet radio
> > > usage.
> > > >
> > > > > Is
> > > > > there a statistically valid method to compare traditional
radio
> > > > > listening stats (cume and aqh) with internet radio stats (as
> > > > > represented by Arbitron)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > shawn
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Harold@V... wrote:
> > > > > > Gentlemen and Ladies,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in
> > this
> > > > > > group--you're free to participate in this group in any
way you
> > > > like,
> > > > > > whether that be as a silent observer or an active
> > > > conversationalist.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm perfectly happy letting you all know what's new in the
> > world
> > > > of
> > > > > > Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you know--just in
> > case
> > > > you
> > > > > > didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own
> > > > Internet
> > > > > > radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know
> > > > everything
> > > > > > about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and
run
> > > with
> > > > it
> > > > > > anytime!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San
> > > > Francisco
> > > > > [
> > > > > >
http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].
> > > > Panel
> > > > > > topics will include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital
> > download
> > > > > > stores, major label contracts, and music & politics.  The
> > event
> > > > will
> > > > > > include a keynote by Lawrence Lessig [
> > > > http://www.lessig.org/blog/
> > > > > ].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [
> > > > > > http://www.kurthanson.org ] reports that the latest
Arbitron
> > > > > Internet
> > > > > > Broadcast Ratings show that in January nearly all networks
> > > > rebounded
> > > > > > from December's marked decreases:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts
> > after
> > > > > > switching to holiday program in December.  The Arbitron
> > ratings
> > > > can
> > > > > > be found here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > > > > VoyagerRadio
> > > > > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > > > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > > > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> > > http://search.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >

Hey Harold,

I too am very interested in the results of your poll.  I have been
listening to internet radio on a regular basis since 1998 but that was
probably because I worked for a company doing internet radio at the
time.

Since I don't have a car and I live in an area that does not get good
reception, internet radio is my primary method of radio listening.

Anyone else...?

-shawn

--- Harold@... wrote:
> I have a quick poll for everyone.  Shawn's interest in Internet radio
> ratings has prompted me to do some further research, and today I
> found an article discussing the findings in a report made by RRadio
> Network, a division of a radio and TV ad production company called
> Audio Graphics.  The report shows that nearly half of the Internet
> radio audience has been listening for less than a year.  [
> http://www.mediapost.com/dtls_dsp_news.cfm?newsID=241251]
>
> Less than a year!
>
> I'm interested in knowing if this number is reflected in our group
> here.  So here's the poll:
>
> How many of you have been listening to Internet radio for less than a
> year?
>
> Thanks for responding--I'm looking forward to learning the results!
>
> Harold J. Johnson
> Moderator, Internet Radio Lovers
> Webcaster, VoyagerRadio
> Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
>
> Tell a friend about the Internet Radio Lovers at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InternetRadioLovers/
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [InternetRadioLovers] RE: Measuring The Audience
> > From: Harold@...
> > Date: Thu, March 04, 2004 10:39 am
> > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > I enjoyed this article.  Written from the point of view of someone
> who
> > has studied audience research, it demonstrates how inaccurate the
> > ratings systems can be, while still being important to broadcast
> > industries.  Interestingly, the author makes it a point to distance
> > streaming media from "mass" media because he doesn't want the new
> form
> > of communication to fall into "the ratings trap".  In other words,
> he
> > doesn't want Internet radio and other streaming media to become
> like
> > traditional broadcast media.
> >
> > Makes sense to me.  The question is, should Internet radio become a
> > "mass" media, will it be able to retain its "indie" status as well?
>
> > Will their still be room for both independent stations and
> corporate
> > stations in this space, as we have today?  Or will it become too
> > expensive for independent operators?
> >
> > Harold J. Johnson
> > VoyagerRadio
> > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: RE: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion
> anytime/Music
> > > Law Summit West
> > > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> > > Date: Tue, March 02, 2004 4:32 pm
> > > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Harold,
> > >
> > > The Arbitron developments will make life a bit more difficult for
> ad
> > > sales folks but I think there are some interesting counter
> arguments
> > > to
> > > be made against traditional Arbitron/Neilson style measurements
> that
> > > might help matters.  Here is a good article regarding such:
> > > http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=5645&c=16
> > >
> > > BTW: I think Arbitron measurements in the internet radio space
> were
> > > directly related to actual server logs (at least in the early
> days).
> >
> > > Being such, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that the
> internet
> > > broadcasting community could form an organization to provide this
> > > service to it's members (log analysis, validation and peer
> ranking).
> > >
> > > -shawn
> > >
> > > --- Harold@... wrote:
> > > > Shawn,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not certain, but maybe we'll be able to dig up that
> infomation
> > > > together.  I've always been suspect of traditional methods of
> > > > evaluating radio broadcasts, since there seems to be no way of
> > > > accuratey accessing how many people are really listening.  I
> was
> > > > recently a Nielsen Family and filled out a calendar-like
> "diary"
> > to
> > > > report to the Nielsen how much television I was watching.  My
> > > "diary"
> > > > is supposed to represent X number of listeners.  I suspect
> > Arbitron
> > > > uses a similar method to measure terrestrial radio broadcasts,
> but
> > > > I'm not sure.
> > > >
> > > > Speaking of Arbitron, some more big news came this week.  Looks
> > like
> > > > Arbitron has stopped measuring Internet radio, as reported in
> the
> > > > following article:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3319381
> > > >
> > > > I remember a few years ago when the company, known for its
> > > > measurement of traditional radio ratings, announced it would be
> > > > measuring Internet radio.  They've apparently dropped it
> because
> > > they
> > > > haven't figured out a way to make money to support measurement
> of
> > > > Internet radio, though they say they'll "remain committed to
> the
> > > > Internet broadcast business and continue to believe in the
> > viability
> > > > of this medium and its long-term market potential".  Well,
> that's
> > > > good news, but it's alarming to see the loss of this excellent
> > > > measuring system.  I fear this may stall the arrival of some
> good
> > > > advertising models for Internet radio.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know of any other companies that measure Internet
> > radio?
> > > >
> > > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > > VoyagerRadio
> > > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > > Subject: Re: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion
> > > > anytime/Music
> > > > > Law Summit West
> > > > > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> > > > > Date: Tue, February 24, 2004 12:43 pm
> > > > > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Harold,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your last email reminded me of a question that I have had
> since
> > > > > Arbitron and other companies started tracking internet radio
> > > usage.
> > > >
> > > > > Is
> > > > > there a statistically valid method to compare traditional
> radio
> > > > > listening stats (cume and aqh) with internet radio stats (as
> > > > > represented by Arbitron)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > shawn
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Harold@... wrote:
> > > > > > Gentlemen and Ladies,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in
> > this
> > > > > > group--you're free to participate in this group in any way
> you
> > > > like,
> > > > > > whether that be as a silent observer or an active
> > > > conversationalist.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm perfectly happy letting you all know what's new in the
> > world
> > > > of
> > > > > > Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you know--just in
> > case
> > > > you
> > > > > > didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own
> > > > Internet
> > > > > > radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know
> > > > everything
> > > > > > about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and
> run
> > > with
> > > > it
> > > > > > anytime!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San
> > > > Francisco
> > > > > [
> > > > > > http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].
>
> > > > Panel
> > > > > > topics will include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital
> > download
> > > > > > stores, major label contracts, and music & politics.  The
> > event
> > > > will
> > > > > > include a keynote by Lawrence Lessig [
> > > > http://www.lessig.org/blog/
> > > > > ].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [
> > > > > > http://www.kurthanson.org ] reports that the latest
> Arbitron
> > > > > Internet
> > > > > > Broadcast Ratings show that in January nearly all networks
> > > > rebounded
> > > > > > from December's marked decreases:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts
> > after
> > > > > > switching to holiday program in December.  The Arbitron
> > ratings
> > > > can
> > > > > > be found here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > > > > VoyagerRadio
> > > > > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > > > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > > > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________
> > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
> > > http://search.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

Here's an easy way to tell your friends and associates about Internet radio.  An
article
about Internet radio published in Reuters (and thus, Yahoo!) has been making the
rounds
this past week, "Internet Radio Finds Its Groove":

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040310/wr_nm/
column_livewire_dc_2

Though the article doesn't tell us much we didn't already know about our
favorite form of
streaming media, it may help in exposing Internet radio to our friends,
especially since it's
been published on Yahoo!, which makes it easy to forward.  Simply click the
"Email Story"
link at the bottom of the article to forward the article to as many email
addresses you like.

Harold J. Johnson
Moderator, Internet Radio Lovers
Operator, VoyagerRadio
http://VoyagerRadio.com

I have a quick poll for everyone.  Shawn's interest in Internet radio ratings
has prompted me to do some further research, and today I found an article
discussing the findings in a report made by RRadio Network, a division of a
radio and TV ad production company called Audio Graphics.  The report shows that
nearly half of the Internet radio audience has been listening for less than a
year.  [ http://www.mediapost.com/dtls_dsp_news.cfm?newsID=241251]

Less than a year!

I'm interested in knowing if this number is reflected in our group here.  So
here's the poll:

How many of you have been listening to Internet radio for less than a year?

Thanks for responding--I'm looking forward to learning the results!

Harold J. Johnson
Moderator, Internet Radio Lovers
Webcaster, VoyagerRadio
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Tell a friend about the Internet Radio Lovers at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InternetRadioLovers/


> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [InternetRadioLovers] RE: Measuring The Audience
> From: Harold@...
> Date: Thu, March 04, 2004 10:39 am
> To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
>
> I enjoyed this article.  Written from the point of view of someone who
> has studied audience research, it demonstrates how inaccurate the
> ratings systems can be, while still being important to broadcast
> industries.  Interestingly, the author makes it a point to distance
> streaming media from "mass" media because he doesn't want the new form
> of communication to fall into "the ratings trap".  In other words, he
> doesn't want Internet radio and other streaming media to become like
> traditional broadcast media.
>
> Makes sense to me.  The question is, should Internet radio become a
> "mass" media, will it be able to retain its "indie" status as well?
> Will their still be room for both independent stations and corporate
> stations in this space, as we have today?  Or will it become too
> expensive for independent operators?
>
> Harold J. Johnson
> VoyagerRadio
> Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: RE: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion anytime/Music
> > Law Summit West
> > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> > Date: Tue, March 02, 2004 4:32 pm
> > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Harold,
> >
> > The Arbitron developments will make life a bit more difficult for ad
> > sales folks but I think there are some interesting counter arguments
> > to
> > be made against traditional Arbitron/Neilson style measurements that
> > might help matters.  Here is a good article regarding such:
> > http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=5645&c=16
> >
> > BTW: I think Arbitron measurements in the internet radio space were
> > directly related to actual server logs (at least in the early days).
>
> > Being such, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that the internet
> > broadcasting community could form an organization to provide this
> > service to it's members (log analysis, validation and peer ranking).
> >
> > -shawn
> >
> > --- Harold@... wrote:
> > > Shawn,
> > >
> > > I'm not certain, but maybe we'll be able to dig up that infomation
> > > together.  I've always been suspect of traditional methods of
> > > evaluating radio broadcasts, since there seems to be no way of
> > > accuratey accessing how many people are really listening.  I was
> > > recently a Nielsen Family and filled out a calendar-like "diary"
> to
> > > report to the Nielsen how much television I was watching.  My
> > "diary"
> > > is supposed to represent X number of listeners.  I suspect
> Arbitron
> > > uses a similar method to measure terrestrial radio broadcasts, but
> > > I'm not sure.
> > >
> > > Speaking of Arbitron, some more big news came this week.  Looks
> like
> > > Arbitron has stopped measuring Internet radio, as reported in the
> > > following article:
> > >
> > > http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3319381
> > >
> > > I remember a few years ago when the company, known for its
> > > measurement of traditional radio ratings, announced it would be
> > > measuring Internet radio.  They've apparently dropped it because
> > they
> > > haven't figured out a way to make money to support measurement of
> > > Internet radio, though they say they'll "remain committed to the
> > > Internet broadcast business and continue to believe in the
> viability
> > > of this medium and its long-term market potential".  Well, that's
> > > good news, but it's alarming to see the loss of this excellent
> > > measuring system.  I fear this may stall the arrival of some good
> > > advertising models for Internet radio.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of any other companies that measure Internet
> radio?
> > >
> > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > VoyagerRadio
> > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > Subject: Re: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion
> > > anytime/Music
> > > > Law Summit West
> > > > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> > > > Date: Tue, February 24, 2004 12:43 pm
> > > > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Harold,
> > > >
> > > > Your last email reminded me of a question that I have had since
> > > > Arbitron and other companies started tracking internet radio
> > usage.
> > >
> > > > Is
> > > > there a statistically valid method to compare traditional radio
> > > > listening stats (cume and aqh) with internet radio stats (as
> > > > represented by Arbitron)?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > shawn
> > > >
> > > > --- Harold@... wrote:
> > > > > Gentlemen and Ladies,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in
> this
> > > > > group--you're free to participate in this group in any way you
> > > like,
> > > > > whether that be as a silent observer or an active
> > > conversationalist.
> > > >
> > > > > I'm perfectly happy letting you all know what's new in the
> world
> > > of
> > > > > Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you know--just in
> case
> > > you
> > > > > didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own
> > > Internet
> > > > > radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know
> > > everything
> > > > > about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and run
> > with
> > > it
> > > > > anytime!
> > > > >
> > > > > The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San
> > > Francisco
> > > > [
> > > > > http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].
> > > Panel
> > > > > topics will include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital
> download
> > > > > stores, major label contracts, and music & politics.  The
> event
> > > will
> > > > > include a keynote by Lawrence Lessig [
> > > http://www.lessig.org/blog/
> > > > ].
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [
> > > > > http://www.kurthanson.org ] reports that the latest Arbitron
> > > > Internet
> > > > > Broadcast Ratings show that in January nearly all networks
> > > rebounded
> > > > > from December's marked decreases:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp
> > > > >
> > > > > Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts
> after
> > > > > switching to holiday program in December.  The Arbitron
> ratings
> > > can
> > > > > be found here:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > > > VoyagerRadio
> > > > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
> > http://search.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

As you may be aware, Howard Stern was recently fired from commercial, or
terrestial,
radio.  Though it's being speculated by the news media [
http://www.kurthanson.com/
archive/news/030904/index.asp ], it's doubtful he'll transfer his show to
satellite radio,
since he's already expressed his opinion about the space-based form of
communication:

"Satellite radio is where you go after you suck in commercial radio."

I disagree with Howard's opinion, though I admit I don't know much about
satellite radio.  I
simply think the King of All Media doesn't understand, or isn't recognizing, the
differences
between satellite radio and terrestial radio.  He seems to view satellite radio
as trying to
emulate terrestrial radio, and though it's certain that satellite radio is using
traditional
forms of radio as a model, it's also becoming increasingly clear that sat radio
is morphing
into an entire different ballgame.  But let's not go into that now; I want to
talk about
Internet radio.

Now entertain the (remote) possibility that Howard turns to Internet radio.  As
noted by a
reader of Kurt Hanson's Radio And Internet Newsletter, should Howard decide to
enter our
beloved field, he would "give the Internet radio industry a much needed shot in
the arm".  [
http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/031004/index.asp ]  I agree, but what are
the
odds of that happening?  We're probably still a few years from that.  A big name
like
Howard's would certainly put Internet radio on everyone's radar, including some
influential
advertisers.

From a marketing point of view, Internet radio could use a big name like Howard
Stern's.
This would attract advertisers to the medium, and a whole section of mainstream
America.
Folks wanting to continue listening to Howard's provocative entertainment would
flock to
computer stores in droves to make sure they had the equipment to listen to the
King of All
Media's next monologue.  Yet from a consumer's (and an independent Internet
radio
broadcaster's) perspective, would Howard's entry into streaming media do more
harm than
benefit our emerging industry?  Would the entry of a big-name player like Howard
attract
the kind of attention we don't want, such as more media regulation and higher
licensing
fees?  We've been struggling to retain Internet radio's identity as an
unregulated (or less-
regulated) form of media; a behemoth like Howard Stern could topple streaming
media's
ability to retain the favor of our lawmakers.

Don't get me wrong--I'm all for freedom of speech.  Although it's been awhile,
there's
been many a day that I've enjoyed listening to Howard's radio show.  I'm just
not certain
his entry in Internet radio would help our industry in the long run.

I enjoyed this article.  Written from the point of view of someone who has
studied audience research, it demonstrates how inaccurate the ratings systems
can be, while still being important to broadcast industries.  Interestingly, the
author makes it a point to distance streaming media from "mass" media because he
doesn't want the new form of communication to fall into "the ratings trap".  In
other words, he doesn't want Internet radio and other streaming media to become
like traditional broadcast media.

Makes sense to me.  The question is, should Internet radio become a "mass"
media, will it be able to retain its "indie" status as well?  Will their still
be room for both independent stations and corporate stations in this space, as
we have today?  Or will it become too expensive for independent operators?

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com


> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion anytime/Music
> Law Summit West
> From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> Date: Tue, March 02, 2004 4:32 pm
> To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
>
> Harold,
>
> The Arbitron developments will make life a bit more difficult for ad
> sales folks but I think there are some interesting counter arguments
> to
> be made against traditional Arbitron/Neilson style measurements that
> might help matters.  Here is a good article regarding such:
> http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=5645&c=16
>
> BTW: I think Arbitron measurements in the internet radio space were
> directly related to actual server logs (at least in the early days).
> Being such, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that the internet
> broadcasting community could form an organization to provide this
> service to it's members (log analysis, validation and peer ranking).
>
> -shawn
>
> --- Harold@... wrote:
> > Shawn,
> >
> > I'm not certain, but maybe we'll be able to dig up that infomation
> > together.  I've always been suspect of traditional methods of
> > evaluating radio broadcasts, since there seems to be no way of
> > accuratey accessing how many people are really listening.  I was
> > recently a Nielsen Family and filled out a calendar-like "diary" to
> > report to the Nielsen how much television I was watching.  My
> "diary"
> > is supposed to represent X number of listeners.  I suspect Arbitron
> > uses a similar method to measure terrestrial radio broadcasts, but
> > I'm not sure.
> >
> > Speaking of Arbitron, some more big news came this week.  Looks like
> > Arbitron has stopped measuring Internet radio, as reported in the
> > following article:
> >
> > http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3319381
> >
> > I remember a few years ago when the company, known for its
> > measurement of traditional radio ratings, announced it would be
> > measuring Internet radio.  They've apparently dropped it because
> they
> > haven't figured out a way to make money to support measurement of
> > Internet radio, though they say they'll "remain committed to the
> > Internet broadcast business and continue to believe in the viability
> > of this medium and its long-term market potential".  Well, that's
> > good news, but it's alarming to see the loss of this excellent
> > measuring system.  I fear this may stall the arrival of some good
> > advertising models for Internet radio.
> >
> > Does anyone know of any other companies that measure Internet radio?
> >
> > Harold J. Johnson
> > VoyagerRadio
> > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: Re: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion
> > anytime/Music
> > > Law Summit West
> > > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> > > Date: Tue, February 24, 2004 12:43 pm
> > > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Harold,
> > >
> > > Your last email reminded me of a question that I have had since
> > > Arbitron and other companies started tracking internet radio
> usage.
> >
> > > Is
> > > there a statistically valid method to compare traditional radio
> > > listening stats (cume and aqh) with internet radio stats (as
> > > represented by Arbitron)?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > shawn
> > >
> > > --- Harold@... wrote:
> > > > Gentlemen and Ladies,
> > > >
> > > > I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in this
> > > > group--you're free to participate in this group in any way you
> > like,
> > > > whether that be as a silent observer or an active
> > conversationalist.
> > >
> > > > I'm perfectly happy letting you all know what's new in the world
> > of
> > > > Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you know--just in case
> > you
> > > > didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own
> > Internet
> > > > radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know
> > everything
> > > > about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and run
> with
> > it
> > > > anytime!
> > > >
> > > > The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San
> > Francisco
> > > [
> > > > http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].
> > Panel
> > > > topics will include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital download
> > > > stores, major label contracts, and music & politics.  The event
> > will
> > > > include a keynote by Lawrence Lessig [
> > http://www.lessig.org/blog/
> > > ].
> > > >
> > > > Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [
> > > > http://www.kurthanson.org ] reports that the latest Arbitron
> > > Internet
> > > > Broadcast Ratings show that in January nearly all networks
> > rebounded
> > > > from December's marked decreases:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp
> > > >
> > > > Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts after
> > > > switching to holiday program in December.  The Arbitron ratings
> > can
> > > > be found here:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm
> > > >
> > > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > > VoyagerRadio
> > > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Harold,

The Arbitron developments will make life a bit more difficult for ad
sales folks but I think there are some interesting counter arguments to
be made against traditional Arbitron/Neilson style measurements that
might help matters.  Here is a good article regarding such:
http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=5645&c=16

BTW: I think Arbitron measurements in the internet radio space were
directly related to actual server logs (at least in the early days).
Being such, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that the internet
broadcasting community could form an organization to provide this
service to it's members (log analysis, validation and peer ranking).

-shawn

--- Harold@... wrote:
> Shawn,
>
> I'm not certain, but maybe we'll be able to dig up that infomation
> together.  I've always been suspect of traditional methods of
> evaluating radio broadcasts, since there seems to be no way of
> accuratey accessing how many people are really listening.  I was
> recently a Nielsen Family and filled out a calendar-like "diary" to
> report to the Nielsen how much television I was watching.  My "diary"
> is supposed to represent X number of listeners.  I suspect Arbitron
> uses a similar method to measure terrestrial radio broadcasts, but
> I'm not sure.
>
> Speaking of Arbitron, some more big news came this week.  Looks like
> Arbitron has stopped measuring Internet radio, as reported in the
> following article:
>
> http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3319381
>
> I remember a few years ago when the company, known for its
> measurement of traditional radio ratings, announced it would be
> measuring Internet radio.  They've apparently dropped it because they
> haven't figured out a way to make money to support measurement of
> Internet radio, though they say they'll "remain committed to the
> Internet broadcast business and continue to believe in the viability
> of this medium and its long-term market potential".  Well, that's
> good news, but it's alarming to see the loss of this excellent
> measuring system.  I fear this may stall the arrival of some good
> advertising models for Internet radio.
>
> Does anyone know of any other companies that measure Internet radio?
>
> Harold J. Johnson
> VoyagerRadio
> Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
>
>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion
> anytime/Music
> > Law Summit West
> > From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> > Date: Tue, February 24, 2004 12:43 pm
> > To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Harold,
> >
> > Your last email reminded me of a question that I have had since
> > Arbitron and other companies started tracking internet radio usage.
>
> > Is
> > there a statistically valid method to compare traditional radio
> > listening stats (cume and aqh) with internet radio stats (as
> > represented by Arbitron)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > shawn
> >
> > --- Harold@... wrote:
> > > Gentlemen and Ladies,
> > >
> > > I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in this
> > > group--you're free to participate in this group in any way you
> like,
> > > whether that be as a silent observer or an active
> conversationalist.
> >
> > > I'm perfectly happy letting you all know what's new in the world
> of
> > > Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you know--just in case
> you
> > > didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own
> Internet
> > > radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know
> everything
> > > about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and run with
> it
> > > anytime!
> > >
> > > The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San
> Francisco
> > [
> > > http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].
> Panel
> > > topics will include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital download
> > > stores, major label contracts, and music & politics.  The event
> will
> > > include a keynote by Lawrence Lessig [
> http://www.lessig.org/blog/
> > ].
> > >
> > > Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [
> > > http://www.kurthanson.org ] reports that the latest Arbitron
> > Internet
> > > Broadcast Ratings show that in January nearly all networks
> rebounded
> > > from December's marked decreases:
> > >
> > > http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp
> > >
> > > Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts after
> > > switching to holiday program in December.  The Arbitron ratings
> can
> > > be found here:
> > >
> > > http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm
> > >
> > > Harold J. Johnson
> > > VoyagerRadio
> > > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________
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> > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
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Shawn,

I'm not certain, but maybe we'll be able to dig up that infomation together. 
I've always been suspect of traditional methods of evaluating radio broadcasts,
since there seems to be no way of accuratey accessing how many people are really
listening.  I was recently a Nielsen Family and filled out a calendar-like
"diary" to report to the Nielsen how much television I was watching.  My "diary"
is supposed to represent X number of listeners.  I suspect Arbitron uses a
similar method to measure terrestrial radio broadcasts, but I'm not sure.

Speaking of Arbitron, some more big news came this week.  Looks like Arbitron
has stopped measuring Internet radio, as reported in the following article:

http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3319381

I remember a few years ago when the company, known for its measurement of
traditional radio ratings, announced it would be measuring Internet radio. 
They've apparently dropped it because they haven't figured out a way to make
money to support measurement of Internet radio, though they say they'll "remain
committed to the Internet broadcast business and continue to believe in the
viability of this medium and its long-term market potential".  Well, that's good
news, but it's alarming to see the loss of this excellent measuring system.  I
fear this may stall the arrival of some good advertising models for Internet
radio.

Does anyone know of any other companies that measure Internet radio?

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com


> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [InternetRadioLovers] Join the discussion anytime/Music
> Law Summit West
> From: "Shawn Van Every" <vanevery@...>
> Date: Tue, February 24, 2004 12:43 pm
> To: InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com
>
> Harold,
>
> Your last email reminded me of a question that I have had since
> Arbitron and other companies started tracking internet radio usage.
> Is
> there a statistically valid method to compare traditional radio
> listening stats (cume and aqh) with internet radio stats (as
> represented by Arbitron)?
>
> Thanks,
> shawn
>
> --- Harold@... wrote:
> > Gentlemen and Ladies,
> >
> > I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in this
> > group--you're free to participate in this group in any way you like,
> > whether that be as a silent observer or an active conversationalist.
>
> > I'm perfectly happy letting you all know what's new in the world of
> > Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you know--just in case you
> > didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own Internet
> > radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know everything
> > about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and run with it
> > anytime!
> >
> > The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San Francisco
> [
> > http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].  Panel
> > topics will include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital download
> > stores, major label contracts, and music & politics.  The event will
> > include a keynote by Lawrence Lessig [ http://www.lessig.org/blog/
> ].
> >
> > Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [
> > http://www.kurthanson.org ] reports that the latest Arbitron
> Internet
> > Broadcast Ratings show that in January nearly all networks rebounded
> > from December's marked decreases:
> >
> > http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp
> >
> > Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts after
> > switching to holiday program in December.  The Arbitron ratings can
> > be found here:
> >
> > http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm
> >
> > Harold J. Johnson
> > VoyagerRadio
> > Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> > Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> > Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Harold,

Your last email reminded me of a question that I have had since
Arbitron and other companies started tracking internet radio usage.  Is
there a statistically valid method to compare traditional radio
listening stats (cume and aqh) with internet radio stats (as
represented by Arbitron)?

Thanks,
shawn

--- Harold@... wrote:
> Gentlemen and Ladies,
>
> I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in this
> group--you're free to participate in this group in any way you like,
> whether that be as a silent observer or an active conversationalist.
> I'm perfectly happy letting you all know what's new in the world of
> Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you know--just in case you
> didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own Internet
> radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know everything
> about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and run with it
> anytime!
>
> The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San Francisco [
> http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].  Panel
> topics will include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital download
> stores, major label contracts, and music & politics.  The event will
> include a keynote by Lawrence Lessig [ http://www.lessig.org/blog/ ].
>
> Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [
> http://www.kurthanson.org ] reports that the latest Arbitron Internet
> Broadcast Ratings show that in January nearly all networks rebounded
> from December's marked decreases:
>
> http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp
>
> Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts after
> switching to holiday program in December.  The Arbitron ratings can
> be found here:
>
> http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm
>
> Harold J. Johnson
> VoyagerRadio
> Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

Gentlemen and Ladies,

I'm certainly not going to badger you about partipating in this group--you're
free to participate in this group in any way you like, whether that be as a
silent observer or an active conversationalist.  I'm perfectly happy letting you
all know what's new in the world of Internet radio, but I just wanted to let you
know--just in case you didn't already--that you're free to jump in with your own
Internet radio topic at any time.  Besides, I can't possibly know everything
about this new medium.  So feel free to take a topic and run with it anytime!

The Music Law Summit West takes place on Wednesday in San Francisco [
http://www.futureofmusic.org/events/hastings04/index.cfm ].  Panel topics will
include: peer-to-peer file sharing, digital download stores, major label
contracts, and music & politics.  The event will include a keynote by Lawrence
Lessig [ http://www.lessig.org/blog/ ].

Paul Maloney of the Radio And Internet Newsletter [ http://www.kurthanson.org ]
reports that the latest Arbitron Internet Broadcast Ratings show that in January
nearly all networks rebounded from December's marked decreases:

http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/022004/index.asp

Apparently, folks are returning to their favorite webcasts after switching to
holiday program in December.  The Arbitron ratings can be found here:

http://www.arbitron.com/newsroom/archive/WCR02_19_04.htm

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Macworld's Jim Dalrymple loves using iTunes to listen to music, but believes the
digital music program's Internet radio features leave much to be desired:

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/archives/000066.php

He compares it to Musicmatch's player, which, for a month fee, allows users to
choose an artist and listen exclusively to tracks by the artist.

So where's the spontaneity in this?  What do you think?

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Anyone following royalty rate/copyright issues for Internet radio broadcasters
(webcasters) may wish to read the following article:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2004-02-10-webcast-rates-set_x.htm

For those of you who don't want to read the article, I'll sum it up for you. 
According to the article,  "the recording industry and Webcasters finally agreed
on a proposed 0.0762 cents per performance or 1.17 cents per aggregate hour
tuned in for free, advertising-supported services. Webcasters had opposed other
rates suggested by the RIAA, saying they would put them out of business."

So now you know.

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Is anyone familiar with this software?  It's called Replay Radio, and it allows
TiVo-like recording and playback of your favorite Internet radio programming:

http://www.replay-radio.com/

I've used software similiar to this before on my Mac--for example, the Audio
Hijack plugin for MacAmp (no longer available), and more recently, Audion's
built-in recording tool.  (There's also Audio Hijack by Rogue Amoeba software [
http://www.rogueamoeba.com ] for OS X.)

In case you're wondering about the legality of recording Internet radio streams,
Sam Diaz of the Mercury News that issue in this article:

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/technology/personal_tech\
nology/7854663.htm

It's basically compared to the legality of recording a television program using
a TiVo--in other words, there should be no legal issues.  Advertisers may not be
impressed, however.

I've been watching for the arrival of a hardware device for the Mac that will be
able to record Internet radio, FM, and AM radio in one sleek package.  It's
called the radioSHARK, and it's apparently going to be available in April:

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/radioshark/

I'll believe it when I see it, though--Griffin was supposed to originally
release this product last summer.  It the radioSHARK ever reaches the shore,
however, I'll be really interested in seeing how well it works.

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Folks,

We don't allow blatant spam to get posted to this group--anyone who wants to let
others know about their personal projects or public organizations can do so via
their signature at the end of the message.  Keeping that in mind, one of our
members submitted the following message to this group:


> Good morning/afternoon/evening from the USA's east coastal
> midsection.  The Last Radio Station has returned to its full schedule
> of online music and sonic weirdness and we'd like to hear how we're
> doing streamwise on other sections of the planet.   One does not
> usually associate reception reports with internet radio, but in this
> case I'd like to make an exception.  Does the stream get into your
> part of the world OK?  Should I throttle down from my present 128 kbps
> to something more reasonable like 64 or even 32?  Your feedback would
> be quite welcome.
>     The Last Radio Station... the end of radio as you've known it, and
> the beginning of a whole new thing.
>
> http://home.nc.rr.com/gttyson/lastradio.html
>
>
> KL

We didn't allow this to go through, of course, but we post it here because there
is a question here that is interesting.  Those of us who listen to Internet
radio my find themselves gravitating toward a particular bitrate.  Do you prefer
listening to 128kbps streams (or higher), or do you prefer 64 or even 32?  In
some parts of the world we can imagine there being some difficulty receiving
high-bitrate stations without a hitch here and there--after all, some of these
streams are traveling very far, indeed.

Please let us know with your response!

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

EMarketer.com analysts have listed the top trends they expect to see in 2004.
 Digital music is among these, of course, but they also reported something else
quite interesting.  They report that U.S. consumers have, and will continue, to
spend increasing amounts of money on Internet content--which makes sense if
online advertising is picking up (another trend they're reporting), since much
of the content you pay for is ad-free.  Here's the story:

http://www.emarketer.com/news/article.php?1002633&page=1

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Did you know that a California company called Acacia Research claims they own
the patent to just about all streaming technologies, from Internet radio to
digital video webcasting?  Last year they began demanding adult Internet sites
and Internet radio broadcasters alike pay them licensing fees for using their
"patented" technologies...so what does this mean for us listeners and consumers
of streaming services?  If Acacia gets their way, it could mean that we'll have
to pay big money to access these services in the future.

Read about Acacia's business of making money from patents at the
StreamingMedia.com website:

http://www.streamingmedia.com/article.asp?id=8559

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

--- In InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com, "gminniss" <gminniss@y...> wrot=
e:
> Hi Harold,
>
> I too have been lax in posting to this group. I listen to a lot of
> music, and play the piano also. However, most of my listening is on
> an Archos Jukebox MP3 player.
>
> I do, however, enjoy listening to internet radio when I get a
> chance. Thanks for holding the group together.
>
> Gary M.

It's good to hear from you, Gary--I'm glad you're still out there.  It's al=
l good; however
you choose to listen to your music/radio is your prerogative.  Since this g=
roup
dedicated to our love affair with Internet radio, however, I'm going to hav=
e to ask you
to leave until you realize you prefer Internet radio to anything else.

Just kidding!  :)  Sorry, I couldn't resist--I'm really happy to hear from =
you, Gary.
Okay, back to the fun.  An article I read today describes one writer's view=
  of the Top
Internt Trends of 2004.  Internet radio is listed as a category that will g=
row"

"Online Radio:  Digital video and audio consumption will show significant g=
rowth in
2004 as streaming media, Internet radio and downloadable formats continue t=
o grow
in popularity.  Music and videos will be the main drivers of this growth. D=
on't overlook
the growth of digital media consumption in areas like news and talk radio. =
  2004 will
bring new networks and devices to consume digital media from media enabled =
smart
phones, PDA's and new media playing devices.  This growth will push listene=
rship of
Internet radio to 20 million listeners per week and thus usher in a flood o=
f much
needed advertising revenue opportunities for online radio stations and show=
s."

http://www.webtalkguys.com/10604.shtml 

--
Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

Hi Harold,

I too have been lax in posting to this group. I listen to a lot of
music, and play the piano also. However, most of my listening is on
an Archos Jukebox MP3 player.

I do, however, enjoy listening to internet radio when I get a
chance. Thanks for holding the group together.

Gary M.


--- In InternetRadioLovers@yahoogroups.com, "Harold" <Harold@V...>
wrote:
> Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
> I'm sending this as a Special Notice since we haven't had any
posts in this group in a
> very long time and I'm going to kick start this group again.
>
> Welcome to the Internet Radio Lovers Discussion Group. Why I
haven't engaged in this
> group in so long I don't know. Part of it has to do with wanting
to post only the best
> information in this group. I'm such a perfectionist that I end up
looking for better and
> better topics/information and, as a result, never end up posting
anything at all here.
> Well, that's about to change.
>
> Some new folks have recently joined this discussion: I welcome
you.  I want to remind
> everyone, new and old, that spam isn't tolerated in this group.
Signatures are,
> however, so you may include a link to your website/project in your
signature.
>
> Now, let's begin 2004's discussion of Internet radio. I'm going to
plunge right in and
> tell you about a new device that was just unveiled at the 2004
Consumer Electronics
> Show in Las Vegas, NV. It's called the iAPlayer, by a company
called iMuse Electronics
> ( http://www.imuse.us/ ), and it apparently allows you to "tune
in" to thousands of
> Internet radio stations. It retails for $395--here's a link to a
news story covering the
> device's release:
>
> http://radio.about.com/cs/latestradionews/a/aa010804a.htm
>
> I'm still looking for a portable to be released, so if you know
about one, let me know!
> (Not that I would be able to afford it yet.)
>
> --
> Harold J. Johnson
> VoyagerRadio
> Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
> Site: http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
> Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

In his efforts to get advertisers to view Internet radio as as viable market,
radio
veteran Ken Dardin asserts that "online radio's listeners are more affluent and
more
educated than almost any other audience":

http://www.mediapost.com/dtls_dsp_news.cfm?newsID=233623

I'm not certain about the affluence, but as for the education, well heck, I
could've told
them that.  Whether or not you graduated high school, the fact that you're
reading
this message now places you a step ahead of many others who aren't
technologically
savvy.  Which makes you more educated, at least, in that respect .

The issue Mr. Dardin brings up in this article, however, is that more people
need to
learn how to listen to Internet radio.  Then Internet radio will really become a
viable
market for advertisers.

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Transmitting Downtempo Electronica to Earth
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com

I guess we can informally dub this Devices Week here in the Internet Radio
Lovers
discussion group since last week saw the arrival of a slew of new gizmos and
gadgets
(do we still use those terms?) at the Consumer Electronics Show and Macworld
event.
So here are more Internet radio devices making news:

Slim Devices' Squeezbox
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=SVBIZINK2.story&STORY=/
www/story/01-09-2004/0002086383&EDATE=FRI+Jan+09+2004,+07:01+AM

Phillips' Streamium devices
http://news.designtechnica.com/article2361.html

Prismiq's MediaPlayer/Recorder
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114241,00.asp

Linksys' DVD Player with Wireless-G Media Link (which can be used to stream
Internet
radio without the need for a PC)
http://news.designtechnica.com/article2337.html

Netgear's MP101 Wireless Digital Music Player
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2343830

VIA and Apex Digital's Personal Gaming Console (which also plays Internet radio)
http://www.hardwarezone.com/news/view.php?cid=11&id=14029


There are probably more, but these are the Internet radio devices that have come
to
my attention.  Let me know if you're aware of any others.  We're certainly
witnessing
the arrival of a whole lot more of them this year.

I'm noticing a trend with these devices, too.  Though there are certainly a
number of
dedicated Internet radio devices, there are also an increasing number of
devices, such
as the wireless DVD player and the gaming console, that are not built
exclusively for
Internet radio.  I would still like to see a dedicated wireless (and handheld)
Internet
radio "tuner", but it's encouraging that alot of vendors are including access to
Internet
radio streams in their products.

Harold J. Johnson
VoyagerRadio
Site:  http://www.VoyagerRadio.com
Blog: http://VoyagerRadio.blogspot.com