Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
KurzList · The Kurzweil Musical Instrument E-mail Discussion List
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want your group to be featured on the Yahoo! Groups website? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
A future for sample CD-ROMs for Kurzweils   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #2505 of 23977 |
Re: [KL] A future for sample CD-ROMs for Kurzweils


> Has anyone but me seen the issue of Computer Music magazine with the
> tutorial and samples to MAKE YOUR OWN PIANO? Very cool -- wonderful
> magazine/CD (UK publication, but I get it here in the states no problem).

Does it go into all the estroic little details that make up the piano? We
have a collection of samples (64meg dual velocity pianos - a few I think)
over on Sonik curtesty of Gunter Matejick (heh! I just probably butchered
his name! He'll probably beat me if he still reads this). I love these
samples, and with a lot of work, they would be professional quality.

Still, there are a LOT of things that are done that most people have no
clue about. Those of us with Mike Martin's Piano stuff know that when we
look at the programming behind it. It isn't just keymapping and hoping
that everything will be all right. Its things like: choosing the right
samples. Not every sample recorded in a session will be right for the
program. If you aren't using every note, then it becomes a tedius process
of weeding out which notes with in this range and which ones don't. You
may find your sweetspot only to find that in order to get all the samples
to sound uniform, its time to start all over again.

Again with Mike's Piano: look at the layers. I believe he has 8 layers
JUST for a piano. Why would one do this? Well, if i remember right, this
was to ensure the note polyphony / dropouts worked in a certain way and so
the filters could be tweeked per individial ranges.

Then think of things like Sweetwater's Pianos: When these were recorded,
Dan Fisher went outta his way to digitally edit out the hammer knocks (I
think they tried to do some of this physically as well) so that when
played back, the natural sound wasn't as overpowering. There is a
difference between what you hear when playing a real piano and what you
hear from adding several notes together and the artifacts that come around
because certain mechanical noises are technically a global item, but being
played back polyphonicly. So what did they do? They removed the knocks
and then added a monolayer which added this back in the most palletable
way.

So, what I'm getting at is that a great piano sample ISN'T just a bunch of
samples keymapped together. It is this plus years of programming
experience from dedicated sound engineers. Will it sound like a Piano?
Probably. Some people prefer the crappy sound of the Roland Piano (overly
compressed and easily spotted switch points...yeah, I'm being critical of
it, but I also wish I wouldn't have sold my GM box as it was PERFECT for
pop music...the Kurz ain't anywhere near good for pop without a lot of
compression and overplaying. Then again, I can't imagine the piano
sampled having hardened hammers and all the other tweeks the roland one
probably had physically either :-)

This all said, you can get good samples for a cheap rate anywhere. When I
work in studios, I generally charge between $50 and $75 an hour. By
computer programming rates are close to this as well. This means to me
that if it took more than 4 hours to program a sample from an assemblage
of samples, I'm doing myself a disservice. I've spent more than 4 hours
tweaking even the commercial samples to my liking to even consider trying
them on my own.

BTW: I'm not trying to get anyone from building their own program, I'm
just letting ya know what kinda work is involved. I encourage everyone to
learn how to build their own patches...commerical stuff just ain't going
to cover everything or even be at the style ya want it to be in.

blah

clif

marsiglio.clif.c _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ sonik: technology + music + kurzweil
mgr. development . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _http://sonikmatter.com/clif
iupui.testing.center _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ ccmarsig@...
tel.317.274.2897 . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . _ . fax.317.274.3400




Thu Jun 7, 2001 8:01 pm

ccmarsig@...
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #2505 of 23977 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Peter Schouten has written recently about the uncertainty of being a third-party Kurzweil soundware developer. He fears that Spectrasonics' decision to stop...
Tony Palermo
Palermo@...
Send Email
Jun 2, 2001
6:51 pm

On Saturday, June 02, 2001 12:51 PM Tony Palermo encouraged list members to share information about soundware products. I agree with the intent of Tony's post....
Peter Schouten
peter@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2001
1:51 am

In response to Tony's comments, I bought Symphony of Voices about a year ago and found it to be of very high quality, but Tony is right about prices. $500 is...
Ray Callahan
kb4ygo@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2001
4:34 am

I would agree - there are two business models that apply here. Sell high and rely on a few sales and sell low ( still making a profit of course! ) and sell in...
David Halliday
dh@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2001
7:37 am

I don't know. I have to regretfully disagree with these sentiments. The sad fact is that if you buy something for $40, you are more likely to not value it...
marsiglio.clif.c
ccmarsig@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2001
6:14 pm

Hi, people! Well, I both agree and disagree with everything I've read so far.. But I think there is a much more fundamental (and, to me, very unsettling)...
Dr. Frederick J. Bash...
dufaydigital@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2001
10:14 pm

I suppose I'll be in the minority here on Kurzlist... I paid several hundred dollars for the Kurzweil orchestral and piano ROM's, and overall I'm not impressed...
John Bair
jbair@...
Send Email
Jun 4, 2001
1:17 am

On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:14:24 -0500 (EST) "marsiglio.clif.c" ... SoUnDEnGiNe ... DON'T GIVE UP YET!! DON'T GIVE UP YET!!! I WANT ONE! Sight unSEEN, I want one...
Peter Bligh
clikclik.whirr@...
Send Email
Jun 4, 2001
2:16 am

... I don't believe that, in case that your friend offers you another disc which is in the same price range. I don't know but I could imagine that bootleggers...
Frank Happel
f-happel@...
Send Email
Jun 6, 2001
7:34 am

Hi Guys I would encourage you to quit speculating about YC's/Kurzweil's motives and reasoning. Kurzweil are making good machines, and as long as we are ...
David Day
david.day@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
9:09 am

As for CD-ROM's, this is a separate issue. Could you soundware guys offer ranges of products? Some £50, some £100 for specific purposes, and then £50000...
Dale Enstrom
dale@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
2:46 pm

Gosh, I wish I could type. I mean't to say, The purchase can be applied to the eventual purchase of the entire CD-ROM. As for CD-ROM's, this is a separate...
Dale Enstrom
dale@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
2:50 pm

... Hi David, you are right concerning the above mentioned 'gear'. I would never pay a cent for a kick drum made from a washing machine front panel based CD...
Frank Happel
f-happel@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
10:12 am

You make a lot of sense! On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:11:34 +0100 "David Day" <david.day@...> ... for specific purposes, and ... from the posts here that...
Peter Bligh
clikclik.whirr@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
6:53 pm

... Does it go into all the estroic little details that make up the piano? We have a collection of samples (64meg dual velocity pianos - a few I think) over...
marsiglio.clif.c
ccmarsig@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
8:01 pm

... Maybe you will find these tutorials of interest. http://sonikmatter.com/sounds/features/memoirs1/ Part 3 is about to be released. These tutorials give you...
Brian Cowell
cowzar@...
Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
10:46 am

Thanks for the insite Clif I just started collectings sounds today Mostly machinery sounds that I hope to use in some Bizzar way In a way a piano is just a...
John Waddington
shadowcaster@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
8:55 pm

Hi again I just thought to append on my comment about "washing machine front panels". I guess the thing about the K2500 for me is having an instrument which is...
David Day
david.day@...
Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
8:02 am

Question for non-professional samplers: What do you use when you run around sampling sounds? I don't picture anyone moving their kurz (with sampling option)...
mntain@...
Send Email
Jun 9, 2001
2:33 pm

... If sampling in the studio, I sometimes use the mixer/audio card combo. I'm doing some try with the K itself, whose inputs have a very pleasant, warm and...
Paolo Tramannoni
ptram@...
Send Email
Jun 10, 2001
1:43 am

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:01:10 -0500 (EST) "marsiglio.clif.c" ... Dunno; that's one of the issues I did NOT buy. I remember looking at that issue a long time in...
Peter Bligh
clikclik.whirr@...
Send Email
Jun 7, 2001
10:51 pm

Greetings, Kurzarinos-- If someone could offer some direction to a newbie it'd be appreciated: Could someone consisely explain the relationship of the physical...
Ian Wood
ianwood@...
Send Email
Jun 9, 2001
1:02 am

My personal opinion is that the Kurzweil platform has been very hard to support at the best of times. Even when the K2000 was the main platform, Kurzweil...
Brian Cowell
cowzar@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2001
5:34 am

... Uh oh, Dale. I resigned from my day job yesterday, and was going to send you International Wiring Instructions for the £50000 today, so I could get...
SoUnDEnGiNe.com
scott@...
Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
10:42 am

Dub, If you have a K2500 or K2600 Look at ALGs 5, 9, 21, 28 .. Master/Slave was added to the 3rd block in them for use with the Vocoder . What that means is...
Pacbell
geosync@...
Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
4:35 pm

When I started this thread, I hoped it would lead to lots of love letters/hate letters about CD sample collections; Information that Kurzweilers could use to...
Tony Palermo
Palermo@...
Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
5:36 pm

on 6/8/01 10:36 AM, Tony Palermo at Palermo@... wrote: Hi Tony.....and all others concerned wityh this topic. ... I tried this at the Bolder Site a...
Dennis Burns
dennis@...
Send Email
Jun 8, 2001
6:17 pm

This is exactly what I was eluding to in my earlier post on this thread. It seems that it has been successful for Sweetwater in that they have continued to...
Dale Enstrom
dale@...
Send Email
Jun 12, 2001
4:09 am

My two cents I am a 'weekend' musician and K2000 user sharing the sentiments regarding laying out big cash for CD's - not for me. Recently however I bought a...
Paul Clement
paul-clement@...
Send Email
Jun 9, 2001
12:25 am

... I couldn't agree more, Marc. If the sound set one wants is too expensive, then save some of that paycheck each month until one can afford it. I can see...
Mike Hall
mghall@...
Send Email
Jun 12, 2001
3:51 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help