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MIDI comparison: JI/ET/Other   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #6964 of 21479 |
[MMM] Re: 29-HTT Improvisation

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith"
<gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron K. Johnson"
> <akjmicro@c...> wrote:
>
> > > So where do "very close to JI" and "quasi-just" fall in terms of
> cents?
> >
> > Probably somewhere around 3.1415927 cents for me.....
>
> You might consider joining the many fans of 72-equal. It is the
first
> et with errors under pi cents up to the 7 limit, and only the 4
cents
> flat of the 9 is over up to the 11 limit. If the 5-limit suffices,
> then good old 53 will do it for you. 99 gets you up to the 9-limit,
> 118 up to the 11-limit, and 130 up to the 13-limit. All of these, of
> course, are important systems anyway.

For 29-HTT (the tuning in the subject line) the max error is ~1.6237c
at the 7 limit and ~3.2474 at the 15 limit, with the error of each
consonance being either zero or one of those two figures (or very
close).

A listening test will show that 72-ET can't touch it, either at the 7-
limit or the 11-limit (and I have midi files to prove it). 72-ET
clearly sounds like a low-error temperament, while 29-HTT sounds like
JI without phase-locking, very similar to 130-ET. Beating that
occurs with approximated 7-limit consonances is much more noticeable
than at higher limits, so you had better cut your allowable error in
half at the 7 limit.

Gene, for your enlightenment: 29-HTT consists (except for one filler
tone) of 3 chains of fifths of ~703.5787c, or exactly (504/13)^
(1/9). The 3 chains of fifths contain tones 1/1, 5/4, and 7/4,
respectively, and the tones in each chain are taken to as many places
as are required to result in otonal ogdoads on roots Bb, F, C, G, D,
and A. This also gives very-near-just diatonic (5-limit) scales in 5
different keys.

The greatest advantage: the total number of tones/octave is small
enough to make acoustic instruments practical (the smallest intervals
being ~24 cents).

--George





Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:10 pm

gdsecor
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... cents? ... You might consider joining the many fans of 72-equal. It is the first et with errors under pi cents up to the 7 limit, and only the 4 cents flat...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Jun 25, 2004
6:05 am

... first ... cents ... For 29-HTT (the tuning in the subject line) the max error is ~1.6237c at the 7 limit and ~3.2474 at the 15 limit, with the error of...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Jun 25, 2004
7:10 pm

... of ... limit, ... of ... ~1.6237c ... Hmm . . . since Aaron said he *wants* 'errors' of at least 3 cents or so, isn't this a bit presumptuous of you to say...
Paul Erlich
paulerlich
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Jun 25, 2004
8:08 pm

... The same could be said other tempered scales around the size of 29 notes to the octave, of course; among DE scales, Hemiwuerschmidt[25] or...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Jun 25, 2004
8:38 pm

... ~1.6237c ... each ... or ... I interpreted it to mean *no more* than 3.14 cents or so. ... What I said about the 7 limit is in line with Dave Keenan's...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Jun 25, 2004
9:47 pm

... very ... cents ... Aaron's words were: "I think I prefer quasi-just to true just for that reason." and then he threw out the figure of pi cents when asked...
Paul Erlich
paulerlich
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Jun 25, 2004
10:09 pm

... Whoa dude: rad! ... Say, what's the difference between Exmp152w.mid and Exmp152.mid? Ditto Exmp19p3.mid and Exmp19.mid -- does the former have 21 notes? ...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jun 25, 2004
10:46 pm

... Followed up by http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning-math/message/10549...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Jun 26, 2004
1:06 am

Hi George, Thank you for sharing. This sounds surprisingly good! Kalle...
Kalle Aho
kalleaho
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Jun 16, 2004
8:02 pm

George, This is a great improvisation. There is one very interesting point towards the end (2:43-2:50) when you play a melody in clusters of very small...
Prent Rodgers
prentrodgers
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Jun 17, 2004
9:20 pm

... very ... I've deleted this from the original (temporary) link. But, thanks to Carl Lumma, it is now at: http://lumma.org/tuning/secor/improv29.mp3 I...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Jun 18, 2004
4:50 pm

... How high of a Prime Limit? -- * David Beardsley * microtonal guitar * http://biink.com/db...
David Beardsley
harmonics711...
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Jun 18, 2004
5:06 pm

... JI. ... I ... prime ... Generally 19, but I have some applications that go at least as high as 41. --George...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Jun 18, 2004
9:21 pm

... This is funny--13 is the highest prime limit I care to use. My basic focus is 7. As for outclassing all temperaments, as n-->oo n-et-->JI....
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Jun 18, 2004
9:00 pm

... JI. ... limit I ... prime ... At least we agree on using 13. :-) ... But what is the purpose of a temperament, if not to *reduce* the number of tones...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Jun 18, 2004
9:36 pm

Hello, there, Prent and everyone. Thank you warmly for converting my PostScript score to a PDF file, Prent, making the score easily available to many more...
Margo Schulter
mschulter@...
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Jun 12, 2004
1:04 am

... Speaking for myself, this would mean that consonance and dissonance is not accidental--one is actually tying in compositional structure to scale structure....
Aaron K. Johnson
akjmicro
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Jun 12, 2004
1:35 pm

... is not ... relatively ... motion ... I would say that chord progressions which make use of a comma of the tuning are clear examples of composition...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Jun 13, 2004
1:58 am

... where the root ... are not ... cool idea. for me, it means that the consequences of my normal actions (chromaticism, tonality, sequencing, reharmonization)...
tentothe99
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Jun 13, 2004
5:22 am

... You won't see me yawn at 19 !!!! I'm so sold on it, I could spend my life on it. It really has some riches, for sure. Best, Aaron Krister Johnson ...
Aaron K. Johnson
akjmicro
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Jun 13, 2004
6:20 am

... consonances ... actions ... me ... with ... some ... my life on ... i'm ever tempted to delve into 31. see, for me, it's gotta have the big consonant...
tentothe99
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Jun 13, 2004
7:08 am

... 31 is very nice I think. As for having to have the harmonic series, I can go either way. I love it, I also think the the universe *outside* of it is ...
Aaron K. Johnson
akjmicro
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Jun 13, 2004
1:43 pm

... I'm confused. 31 approximates the harmonic series better than 19. Part of the problem may be that I can't tell whether tentothe99 meant "ever" or "never"...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jun 13, 2004
5:33 pm

... the ... never ... lost ... series, ... *outside* ... mean ... Beyond that, ... ET tunings' ... than 19. ... meant ... i meant that I'm tempted to delve...
tentothe99
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Jun 14, 2004
12:11 am

... Oh, cool, it makes total sense now. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jun 14, 2004
7:54 am

... Don't ignore 22 on the way to 31, though....
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Jun 13, 2004
4:37 pm

... <tentothe99@y...> ... the ... lost ... ooh that 22 has a nice P5, huh? and the thirds look good, too. and a tritone? i'm totally sold....
tentothe99
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Jun 14, 2004
12:06 am

... have ... Don't expect to use any characteristic diatonic chord progressions in 22 -- they won't work (you'll end up with 55-cent pitch drift or shifts, at...
Paul Erlich
paulerlich
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Jun 14, 2004
5:55 pm

... <tentothe99@y...> ... Smith" ... never ... tempered ... of ... too. ... progressions in ... and 31 ... common-practice ... i only use numbers anyway. that...
tentothe99
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Jun 14, 2004
6:07 pm

... practice ... so ... I mention these as a possible resource for atonalists in my paper on 22: http://www.lumma.org/tuning/erlich/erlich-decatonic.pdf...
Paul Erlich
paulerlich
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Jun 15, 2004
7:47 pm
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