Hi all,

I'm trying to find a mouthpiece for my bass that will stand up to the
large-ish brass section in my community wind band.  I'm currently
playing on two pieces:
1) Clark Fobes Basso Nova, approx. tip opening 1.7mm, with Vandoren
3.5s or harder 3s.
2) Charles Bay MO+-M, approx. tip opening 2.05mm, with Vandoren 2.5s
or soft 3s.

The Fobes sounds great but isn't nearly loud enough.  If I put on a
softer Vandoren 3 and try to play really loud, the reed closes up on
me.  The Bay screams, but has an edgy sound at mf or higher, and gets
blatty on the lower stack.

So I'm looking for a mouthpiece that I can get more air through, but
doesn't have so much edge.  I tried one of Walter's LB pieces but that
didn't work for me at all (sorry Walter).  I'd like to be able to use
one mouthpiece that gets a nice sound and has a wide dynamic range,
and I'm more likely to try a few different mouthpieces than get a
better horn than my 20-year-old Bundy, even though I want one.

I appreciate any suggestions (except if someone suggests trying the
Backun, 'cause I'm not spending $600 for a mouthpiece no matter how
good it is.  :)

Thanks in advance for your feedback,

Stacy

You don't indicate the makeof you clt. You need an
older Selmer if you want to hold your own,  John
--- Stacy Friedman <stacy_friedman@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to find a mouthpiece for my bass that
> will stand up to the
> large-ish brass section in my community wind band.
> I'm currently
> playing on two pieces:
> 1) Clark Fobes Basso Nova, approx. tip opening
> 1.7mm, with Vandoren
> 3.5s or harder 3s.
> 2) Charles Bay MO+-M, approx. tip opening 2.05mm,
> with Vandoren 2.5s
> or soft 3s.
>
> The Fobes sounds great but isn't nearly loud enough.
>  If I put on a
> softer Vandoren 3 and try to play really loud, the
> reed closes up on
> me.  The Bay screams, but has an edgy sound at mf or
> higher, and gets
> blatty on the lower stack.
>
> So I'm looking for a mouthpiece that I can get more
> air through, but
> doesn't have so much edge.  I tried one of Walter's
> LB pieces but that
> didn't work for me at all (sorry Walter).  I'd like
> to be able to use
> one mouthpiece that gets a nice sound and has a wide
> dynamic range,
> and I'm more likely to try a few different
> mouthpieces than get a
> better horn than my 20-year-old Bundy, even though I
> want one.
>
> I appreciate any suggestions (except if someone
> suggests trying the
> Backun, 'cause I'm not spending $600 for a
> mouthpiece no matter how
> good it is.  :)
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback,
>
> Stacy
>
>




________________________________________________________________________________\
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I have gone back to my selmer H after using a grabner csx bb 90. the H has a
huge tip opening and will roar, without folding. I got it from roberto's winds
in NYC. they have a strong web presence. the cool thing about the H is that it
is under $200.

Sent from my iPhone


      
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--- In NewBassClarinetGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Ann Satterfield"
<annhsatt@...> wrote:
>
>
> Stacy, some further thoughts--may or may not apply...
>
> The attitude and physical approach that will let you get the most
from any
> setup is to think of max resonance rather than effort.
> I feel as if the bore of the instrument extends to the bottom of
my rib
> cage, and tension anywhere from chest or face interferes with
vibration,
> takes a bit away from richness of sound.

> Ann


Hi Ann,

As a "beginner", just loved your advice above, noticing an immediate
improvement in tone, both piano and forte.

Will write your words of wisdom in capitals in my notebook!

Thank you so much,
Hilary

I stand (somewhat) corrected. In any event Ann's
advice is very sound.   John
--- Allison Baugh <allison.baugh@...> wrote:

> > You don't indicate the makeof you clt. You need an
> older Selmer if you want to hold your own, John <
>
> Actually, she did:
>
> > and I'm more likely to try a few different
> > mouthpieces than get a
> > better horn than my 20-year-old Bundy, even though
> I
> > want one. <
>
> Doesn't sound like a Selmer of any vintage is an
> option at this point..
>
> Allison
>
>




________________________________________________________________________________\
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FareChase.
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Out of all the mouthpieces I tried Selmer (model H)
and especially Bay (don't know the model but it was
open) were louder than others. I don't think a
mouthpiece is the only solution toi playing louder
though.



--- Stacy Friedman <stacy_friedman@...> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to find a mouthpiece for my bass that
> will stand up to the
> large-ish brass section in my community wind band.
> I'm currently
> playing on two pieces:
> 1) Clark Fobes Basso Nova, approx. tip opening
> 1.7mm, with Vandoren
> 3.5s or harder 3s.
> 2) Charles Bay MO+-M, approx. tip opening 2.05mm,
> with Vandoren 2.5s
> or soft 3s.
>
> The Fobes sounds great but isn't nearly loud enough.
>  If I put on a
> softer Vandoren 3 and try to play really loud, the
> reed closes up on
> me.  The Bay screams, but has an edgy sound at mf or
> higher, and gets
> blatty on the lower stack.
>
> So I'm looking for a mouthpiece that I can get more
> air through, but
> doesn't have so much edge.  I tried one of Walter's
> LB pieces but that
> didn't work for me at all (sorry Walter).  I'd like
> to be able to use
> one mouthpiece that gets a nice sound and has a wide
> dynamic range,
> and I'm more likely to try a few different
> mouthpieces than get a
> better horn than my 20-year-old Bundy, even though I
> want one.
>
> I appreciate any suggestions (except if someone
> suggests trying the
> Backun, 'cause I'm not spending $600 for a
> mouthpiece no matter how
> good it is.  :)
>
> Thanks in advance for your feedback,
>
> Stacy
>
>



      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
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I second that emotion!  There is no reason to try to outplay brass
players.  You'll never do it...ever.  Nobody can.  Also, in the
process of trying to drop the brass section you'll distort to timbre
of the instrument and your color will never cut through the group.
BTW - If the Fobes Basso Nova isn't loud enough for you then the rest
of your setup is what needs changing.

--- In NewBassClarinetGroup@yahoogroups.com, DEvans6896@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 9/2/2007 5:18:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> stacy_friedman@... writes:
>
> I'm  trying to find a mouthpiece for my bass that will stand up to
the
> large-ish  brass section in my community wind band.
>
>
> If you are trying to "stand up" to the brass section, you need a
different
> band, not a new mouthpiece! I have played bs. Cl for 40+ years and
they aren't
> supposed to be played that way. I have played in good-excellent
bands as well
> as  some pretty poor ones. A bs. Cl is a "harmony" or "color"
clarinet that
> adds  color and fullness to the music. Don't try to make it do
something it
> isn't  supposed to do. And no composer would try to have a bs. Cl
"stand up" to a
> brass  section. Strive to be the best, not the loudest. JMHO
> Dave
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>

--- In NewBassClarinetGroup@yahoogroups.com, "ph25364879"
<bass9396@...> wrote:
>
> I second that emotion!  There is no reason to try to outplay brass
> players.  You'll never do it...ever.  Nobody can.

No, I'm not suggesting that a single bass clarinet player can outplay
eight trombones and five euphonia.  *I* can play a single trombone
louder than the bass clarinet, and I don't even know what I'm doing on
the bone.

The point was that I don't seem to be able to get as much air through
the Fobes to make me comfortable -- it never sounds louder than about
mezzo-forte to me.  I want a mouthpiece that I can blow more on while
still sounding like a bass clarinet.  I can put a lot of air through
my Bay, but when I do the sound quality sounds less
bass-clarinet-like, and even at mezzo-piano there's more edge to the
sound than with the Fobes.

> BTW - If the Fobes Basso Nova isn't loud enough for you then the rest
> of your setup is what needs changing.

I'm playing on Vandoren 3/3.5s with either an inverted Bonade, the
Bay, or the lite Rovner ligs.  Is that problematic?

More to the point, is the general consensus that my plastic Bundy is
getting in my way, and that looking into different mouthpieces is the
wrong approach?  I admit I'm ignorant as to what a top-level horn
feels like, because I don't own one and don't have ready access to
playtest.  I'll assume that a pro horn projects better than mine does,
maybe far better, but that's not really an option for me right now.

Thanks for the feedback,

Stacy

--- In NewBassClarinetGroup@yahoogroups.com, "ph25364879"
<bass9396@...> wrote:
>
> I second that emotion! There is no reason to try to outplay brass
> players. You'll never do it...ever. Nobody can.

No, I'm not suggesting that a single bass clarinet player can outplay
eight trombones and five euphonia. *I* can play a single trombone
louder than the bass clarinet, and I don't even know what I'm doing on
the bone.

The point was that I don't seem to be able to get as much air through
the Fobes to make me comfortable -- it never sounds louder than about
mezzo-forte to me. I want a mouthpiece that I can blow more on while
still sounding like a bass clarinet. I can put a lot of air through
my Bay, but when I do the sound quality sounds less
bass-clarinet-like, and even at mezzo-piano there's more edge to the
sound than with the Fobes.

> BTW - If the Fobes Basso Nova isn't loud enough for you then the rest
> of your setup is what needs changing.

I'm playing on Vandoren 3/3.5s with either an inverted Bonade, the
Bay, or the lite Rovner ligs. Is that problematic?

More to the point, is the general consensus that my plastic Bundy is
getting in my way, and that looking into different mouthpieces is the
wrong approach? I admit I'm ignorant as to what a top-level horn
feels like, because I don't own one and don't have ready access to
playtest. I'll assume that a pro horn projects better than mine does,
maybe far better, but that's not really an option for me right now.

Thanks for the feedback,

Stacy

There is an article in the New London Day about the wife of one of our
members. Cheryl Six, wife of Andrew Grenci, is retiring from the Coast

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=f523f6aa-b892-4460-9c32-4df699887dbd

Guard Band. Wgile not strictly about Bass clarinet, it does speak of
the passion needed to be a master musician.

Andy, give my congratulations and best wishes to Cheryl,

.............. roy clark

The plastic Bundy is NOT getting in your way.  Believe me when I tell
you that I teach marching Bass Clarinets every season and all we have
is plastic Bundys.  My kids can produce some sound....lots of it.
More often than not a wooden horn will be a little more subdued than
a plastic horn.  Personally, I think the Rovner ligature is
problematic.  IMHO, they should rename the Dark ligature Damp and the
Light ligature Damp Lite.  For me...just me...the Rovner does nothing
but cut off my sound.  I like a little gold on my ligatures
personally.  They tend to be brighter and respond better.  Try
Harrison...if you can find one...or Bay Gold ligatures.  I believe
Fred Weiner carries the gold Bay Bass Ligs.  I bet you could find a
gold Harrison on Ebay, but it would be pricey.  Do that first, if you
still have issues I'd go to the Selmer Paris series Bass
mouthpieces.  I use the D, but they do come more open as well.

Hope this helps!



--- In NewBassClarinetGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Stacy
Friedman" <stacy_friedman@...> wrote:
>
> --- In NewBassClarinetGroup@yahoogroups.com, "ph25364879"
> <bass9396@> wrote:
> >
> > I second that emotion!  There is no reason to try to outplay
brass
> > players.  You'll never do it...ever.  Nobody can.
>
> No, I'm not suggesting that a single bass clarinet player can
outplay
> eight trombones and five euphonia.  *I* can play a single trombone
> louder than the bass clarinet, and I don't even know what I'm doing
on
> the bone.
>
> The point was that I don't seem to be able to get as much air
through
> the Fobes to make me comfortable -- it never sounds louder than
about
> mezzo-forte to me.  I want a mouthpiece that I can blow more on
while
> still sounding like a bass clarinet.  I can put a lot of air through
> my Bay, but when I do the sound quality sounds less
> bass-clarinet-like, and even at mezzo-piano there's more edge to the
> sound than with the Fobes.
>
> > BTW - If the Fobes Basso Nova isn't loud enough for you then the
rest
> > of your setup is what needs changing.
>
> I'm playing on Vandoren 3/3.5s with either an inverted Bonade, the
> Bay, or the lite Rovner ligs.  Is that problematic?
>
> More to the point, is the general consensus that my plastic Bundy is
> getting in my way, and that looking into different mouthpieces is
the
> wrong approach?  I admit I'm ignorant as to what a top-level horn
> feels like, because I don't own one and don't have ready access to
> playtest.  I'll assume that a pro horn projects better than mine
does,
> maybe far better, but that's not really an option for me right now.
>
> Thanks for the feedback,
>
> Stacy
>

In a message dated 9/6/2007 3:39:47 A.M. Central  Daylight Time,
dmarlton@... writes:
Correct me if i'm wrong but a  mouthpiece with a wider opening (like a henri
bok pomerico or something) should  make a louder sound.  When I tried one I
didn't like it as much as some of  the others - but then I don't have a volume
problem as I'm either miked up or  accompanying an accoustic guitar...
digressing

I also once bought a 1.5  rico reed (there was only that in the shop) and the
volume from that was just  incredible.  Upper register wasn't fantastic, but
the lower boomed!   That reed might have just have been a freak but it can't
do any harm to try some  like that. >>

I have been watching this thread with some amusement  and some dread. I
finally decided to make a few comments.

Specifically,  the "more open the tip, the louder the sound"  comment is
simply not true.

Over the past five or so years, I have had the pleasure of working with  many
people who make their living playing the bass clarinet. Although most of
them are symphonic players, I have also worked with some of the top Broadway
doublers and a few (very few) jazz players.

The vast majority of these  players, who must be heard to get paid, select
mouthpieces with a tip opening of  1.70 to 1.80, even when offered mouthpieces
opening to 1.90 or  more.

Here's the difference. The issue isn't pure volume, it's PROJECTION  - the
ability to get your sound  past all the other noise and out to the  listener. In
order to do this you have to have full vibration of the reed and a  good mix
of overtones, with a strong fundamental and lots of the upper  overtones. To
get that requires some real juggling on the part of the mouthpiece
designer/craftsman. It also requires good reed selection and a lot of embouchure
development on the part of the player.

Interestingly, while developing my  CXZ_LB "Lawrie Bloom" mouthpiece we did
lots of tests of projection. Two  different designs were rejected as lacking
enough projection to be used in the  Chicago Symphony. The final design - the
one we use now, can be heard in a  large, full, professional symphony orchestra.

A wide open tip, with a  soft reed will OPTIMIZE the low register. In other
words, you can BLAST the  lower register. But it is at the expense of ANY
delicacy and precision in the  clarion, or even getting those notes to speak.
Composers and arrangers are using  ALL the ranges of the bass clarinet,
including
the extreme altissimo. Using a  mouthpiece that optimizes only the notes that
are already the easiest to  produce, is a big mistake, in my opinion.

Now I understand some of the  frustration that has caused these posts. The
fact is, the bass clarinet is NOT a  very loud instrument. I spent several years
early in my career, playing bass  clarinet in a professional concert band. I
often wondered why I was there, and  if in fact, I made any difference. Guess
what? When the full band is playing,  and the horns, trombones, baritone horns
and tubas are howling, it really  matters not if you play - you AREN'T heard.
Also, by choice, the  composer/orchestrator didn't care if you were heard.

Then, all of a  sudden, a piece like "Tubby the Tuba" comes along - and the
bass clarinet can  shine as a soloist - the bull frog! What fun. Or, you play
highlights from "The  Music Man" and show off as the accompaniment to "Marian
the  Librarian".

Then you begin to understand - bass clarinet is a color  instrument. It has
been used this way in its entire history. Tchaikovsky grasped  this
intuitively, using the bass clarinet in the Nutcracker. Wagner used the  bass
clarinet
very effectively this way in his operas. Richard Strauss gave us a  big solo
role in "Don Quixote" as Sancho Panza.

So - for a large part of  our history - the composers - even those who LIKED
us (did Brahms ever write a  note for bass clarinet?) used us as occasional
color - not as a constant.   (This is less true of Prokofieff and Shostakovich,
who  used the bass  clarinet in a more integral manner.

This also happened in "popular"  music. One very beautiful use of the bass
clarinet occurs in Duke Ellington's  "Mood Indigo", where he found the bass
clarinet perfect for expressing the mood  of the piece. However, nobody expected
the bass clarinet player to pick up the  instrument and blow a chorus of "Take
the A Train" against the accompaniment of  trumpets, trombones, bass, and
percussion. He went back to his regular  instrument, the saxophone

Ok - this still doesn't help those who want  MORE volume.

Well, sad to say, you have the physics going against you in  all directions.
You are blowing into a LARGE, long bore, which is cylindrical  not conical,
and the instrument is made of wood.Not the best design for LOUD.

If one wanted the bass clarinet to have VOLUME  one would have  designed the
instrument to be made of metal (more brassy), with a conical bore  instead of
cylindrical, and start that bore out rather small to get lots of  compression.
THAT would get MORE volume. Well guess what? That instrument has  already
been invented - it is called the saxophone. And yes, it IS LOUDER than  the bass
clarinet.

(Not everyone remembers that the modern form of the  bass clarinet was
developed by Adolphe Sax, the same man who invented the  saxophone. Why did he
invent the saxophone? He wanted a woodwind instrument that  was LOUDER, for use
in
military bands. See - this problem is older than most of  us realize).

OK - still no help in getting louder, just a bunch of  history and no help in
getting more volume.

I think the topic of this  thread is very illuminating. "Mouthpiece
Suggestion". In other words, get me a  mouthpiece that lets me play LOUD!

Several brands and models of  mouthpiece have been suggested. But no one has
chimed in and said "El  Blast-O-Special" is God's Gift to bass clarinet
players who want more  volume.

That's because all current bass clarinet mouthpieces available  have much the
same baffle profile. Bass clarinet is a band and orchestra  instrument -
that's where 99% of the playing is going to happen. The very  limited number of
bass clarinet mouthpieces available to us all follow the same  design.-
featuring a high rounded baffle, producing that (hopefully) warm, rich,  dark,
sound
we all so desire.

Well, sadly again, that which optimizes  warm, rich, dark tone does not
promote LOUD.

Now it wouldn't be hard to  produce a LOUDER mouthpiece. Use the same outer
specs, and change the baffle  (the curved upper part of the windway) to make it
LOW, perhaps rounded down  TOWARD the reed rather than up away from it.
PRESTO - lots of loudness.

Unfortunately, the resulting tone might be good for a very individual  jazzy
tone, but would probably result in getting one thrown out of any  respectable
band or orchestra. Who needs a bass clarinet that sounds like the  tenor sax
in "Tequila"?

But assuming it were desirable. Is there a real  market for such a
mouthpiece? I don't know. For example, pick up a copy of a  catalog, such as the
most
recent WW&BW catalog. There are pages and pages of  saxophone mouthpieces, of
all sizes, shapes, tone qualities,etc. Prices from $35  to $700.

How many bass clarinet mouthpieces? Maybe three or four pitiful  types. The
market may not be big enough. Remember, it costs a minimum of $30,000  to de
sign and make a new mold for mouthpiece production. You would have to sell  at
least 300 mouthpieces to just cover your design, material, and manufacturing
costs before making dollar one in profit.

If you go the route of CNC  machines and cutting each mouthpiece from rod
rubber, the cost immediately soars  to $600 or higher.

Would you pay $600 for a mouthpiece that lets you play  louder? That's a good
question.

Walter  Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World Class clarinet mouthpieces
New  Buffet Clarinets




************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

--- In NewBassClarinetGroup@yahoogroups.com, "David Marlton"
<dmarlton@...> wrote:
>
> Correct me if i'm wrong but a mouthpiece with a wider opening (like
a henri
> bok pomerico or something) should make a louder sound.

Loud isn't the problem.  I have a Charles Bay MO+-M, with about a 2.05
opening, and it screams with a 2.5 Vandoren on it.  It just doesn't
sound like I want a bass clarinet to sound at fortissimo.  My other
mouthpiece is a Fobes Basso Nova with a 1.70 opening (with Vandoren 3
or 3.5), and that sounds great for as loud as I can get it.  But to
me, as loud as it goes doesn't seem like fortissimo.  We do a lot of
marches, and

I read Walter's reply to you with much interest, because I've already
tried his Lawrie Bloom mouthpiece and it didn't work for me.  That's
probably my fault, not his, especially considering that Lawrie Bloom
plays it.  I'm not a pro, I'm just a weekly community band player who
doesn't even get to practice much.  It's entirely possible that my
embouchure isn't strong enough to play a Vandoren 3.5 reed on Walter's
mouthpiece, and that's why it didn't work for me.

That being said, there are certainly professionals who use bigger
openings (e.g. Henri Bok's Pomarico model is around 2.0mm).  And at
the same time, I can play a 3.5 on my Fobes, and yes, it sounds better
in the upper register than my Bay.  I'm starting to think I need
something in between the 2.05 of the Bay and the 1.70 of the Fobes,
such that I'm comfortable on about a Vandoren 3 playing fortissimo and
not sounding like a saxophone.  Obviously, the rest of the shape
matters too (facing length, chamber dimensions, etc), but maybe I just
need to try a bunch first.

I'll attempt to find some and playtest, and I'll report back if/when I
find something that works for me.

Thanks for all the feedback,

Stacy

In a message dated 9/6/2007 3:39:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
dmarlton@gmail.com writes:
Correct me if i'm wrong but a mouthpiece with a wider opening (like a henri
bok pomerico or something) should make a louder sound. When I tried one I
didn't like it as much as some of the others - but then I don't have a volume
problem as I'm either miked up or accompanying an accoustic guitar...
digressing

I also once bought a 1.5 rico reed (there was only that in the shop) and the
volume from that was just incredible. Upper register wasn't fantastic, but
the lower boomed! That reed might have just have been a freak but it can't
do any harm to try some like that. >>

I have been watching this thread with some amusement and some dread. I
finally decided to make a few comments.

Specifically, the "more open the tip, the louder the sound" comment is
simply not true.

Over the past five or so years, I have had the pleasure of working with many
people who make their living playing the bass clarinet. Although most of
them are symphonic players, I have also worked with some of the top Broadway
doublers and a few (very few) jazz players.

The vast majority of these players, who must be heard to get paid, select
mouthpieces with a tip opening of 1.70 to 1.80, even when offered mouthpieces
opening to 1.90 or more.

Here's the difference. The issue isn't pure volume, it's PROJECTION - the
ability to get your sound past all the other noise and out to the listener. In
order to do this you have to have full vibration of the reed and a good mix
of overtones, with a strong fundamental and lots of the upper overtones. To
get that requires some real juggling on the part of the mouthpiece
designer/craftsman. It also requires good reed selection and a lot of embouchure
development on the part of the player.

Interestingly, while developing my CXZ_LB "Lawrie Bloom" mouthpiece we did
lots of tests of projection. Two different designs were rejected as lacking
enough projection to be used in the Chicago Symphony. The final design - the
one we use now, can be heard in a large, full, professional symphony orchestra.

A wide open tip, with a soft reed will OPTIMIZE the low register. In other
words, you can BLAST the lower register. But it is at the expense of ANY
delicacy and precision in the clarion, or even getting those notes to speak.
Composers and arrangers are using ALL the ranges of the bass clarinet, including
the extreme altissimo. Using a mouthpiece that optimizes only the notes that
are already the easiest to produce, is a big mistake, in my opinion.

Now I understand some of the frustration that has caused these posts. The
fact is, the bass clarinet is NOT a very loud instrument. I spent several years
early in my career, playing bass clarinet in a professional concert band. I
often wondered why I was there, and if in fact, I made any difference. Guess
what? When the full band is playing, and the horns, trombones, baritone horns
and tubas are howling, it really matters not if you play - you AREN'T heard.
Also, by choice, the composer/orchestrator didn't care if you were heard.

Then, all of a sudden, a piece like "Tubby the Tuba" comes along - and the
bass clarinet can shine as a soloist - the bull frog! What fun. Or, you play
highlights from "The Music Man" and show off as the accompaniment to "Marian
the Librarian".

Then you begin to understand - bass clarinet is a color instrument. It has
been used this way in its entire history. Tchaikovsky grasped this
intuitively, using the bass clarinet in the Nutcracker. Wagner used the bass clarinet
very effectively this way in his operas. Richard Strauss gave us a big solo
role in "Don Quixote" as Sancho Panza.

So - for a large part of our history - the composers - even those who LIKED
us (did Brahms ever write a note for bass clarinet?) used us as occasional
color - not as a constant. (This is less true of Prokofieff and Shostakovich,
who used the bass clarinet in a more integral manner.

This also happened in "popular" music. One very beautiful use of the bass
clarinet occurs in Duke Ellington's "Mood Indigo", where he found the bass
clarinet perfect for expressing the mood of the piece. However, nobody expected
the bass clarinet player to pick up the instrument and blow a chorus of "Take
the A Train" against the accompaniment of trumpets, trombones, bass, and
percussion. He went back to his regular instrument, the saxophone

Ok - this still doesn't help those who want MORE volume.

Well, sad to say, you have the physics going against you in all directions.
You are blowing into a LARGE, long bore, which is cylindrical not conical,
and the instrument is made of wood.Not the best design for LOUD.

If one wanted the bass clarinet to have VOLUME one would have designed the
instrument to be made of metal (more brassy), with a conical bore instead of
cylindrical, and start that bore out rather small to get lots of compression.
THAT would get MORE volume. Well guess what? That instrument has already
been invented - it is called the saxophone. And yes, it IS LOUDER than the bass
clarinet.

(Not everyone remembers that the modern form of the bass clarinet was
developed by Adolphe Sax, the same man who invented the saxophone. Why did he
invent the saxophone? He wanted a woodwind instrument that was LOUDER, for use in
military bands. See - this problem is older than most of us realize).

OK - still no help in getting louder, just a bunch of history and no help in
getting more volume.

I think the topic of this thread is very illuminating. "Mouthpiece
Suggestion". In other words, get me a mouthpiece that lets me play LOUD!

Several brands and models of mouthpiece have been suggested. But no one has
chimed in and said "El Blast-O-Special" is God's Gift to bass clarinet
players who want more volume.

That's because all current bass clarinet mouthpieces available have much the
same baffle profile. Bass clarinet is a band and orchestra instrument -
that's where 99% of the playing is going to happen. The very limited number of
bass clarinet mouthpieces available to us all follow the same design.-
featuring a high rounded baffle, producing that (hopefully) warm, rich, dark, sound
we all so desire.

Well, sadly again, that which optimizes warm, rich, dark tone does not
promote LOUD.

Now it wouldn't be hard to produce a LOUDER mouthpiece. Use the same outer
specs, and change the baffle (the curved upper part of the windway) to make it
LOW, perhaps rounded down TOWARD the reed rather than up away from it.
PRESTO - lots of loudness.

Unfortunately, the resulting tone might be good for a very individual jazzy
tone, but would probably result in getting one thrown out of any respectable
band or orchestra. Who needs a bass clarinet that sounds like the tenor sax
in "Tequila"?

But assuming it were desirable. Is there a real market for such a
mouthpiece? I don't know. For example, pick up a copy of a catalog, such as the most
recent WW&BW catalog. There are pages and pages of saxophone mouthpieces, of
all sizes, shapes, tone qualities,etc. Prices from $35 to $700.

How many bass clarinet mouthpieces? Maybe three or four pitiful types. The
market may not be big enough. Remember, it costs a minimum of $30,000 to de
sign and make a new mold for mouthpiece production. You would have to sell at
least 300 mouthpieces to just cover your design, material, and manufacturing
costs before making dollar one in profit.

If you go the route of CNC machines and cutting each mouthpiece from rod
rubber, the cost immediately soars to $600 or higher.

Would you pay $600 for a mouthpiece that lets you play louder? That's a good
question.

Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World Class clarinet mouthpieces
New Buffet Clarinets

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If you're in the New York City area - the U.S. Coast Guard Chamber
Players will be performing at Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, New
York on Friday, September 14 at 8:00 p.m.  I will be playing a
significant bass clarinet role in Janacek's Mladi and in Jorge
Montilla's Four for Four (clarinet quartet).  Also on the program -
the USCG Sax Quartet, and wind chamber works by Richard Strauss and
Persichetti.

Tickets are required, but FREE.  See our web-site (www.uscg.mil/band)
for ticket request info, or contact the Carnegie Hall box office.  It
would be great to see a few bass clarinet friends there.

We'll also repeat the program in New London, CT on Sunday, Sept 16 -
no ticket required.  The web-site gives more details.

Andy