Ralph_Towner : Message: Re: 12 string (mini thesis) -dissertation

I would agree that the likely hood is that both tunings are correct.
The tuning was related to me well after the solstice recordings so
it may be that it was an evolving process or may have been a current
variant at the particular moment. In the case of my own instrument,
being a 72 Guild F-712; I find the C# on the lowest bass string less
prone to buzz and without having to use a heavier gauge string. I
too shall give a try to the other (when I get the ambition; I
haven't been playing the 12 string much lately). Very nice exchanges
taking place here!
Best,
Jon K

--- In Ralph_Towner@yahoogroups.com, JKilchherr <jkilchherr@e...>
wrote:
> Despite being somewhat confused by it, I've been keeping an eye on
the discussions regarding this new poster's tuning (C#C# F#G# C#D#
F#G# A#B D#D#). If it did indeed come from Ralph himself, then I'm
sure it's accurate; however, this is obviously not the tuning that
was used on both the recordings of Nimbus that I have.
>
> Since Ralph uses variations of these strange 12-string tunings, I
don't think we can conclude that one particular tuning is correct
and the other is wrong. I think they're both correct, but used for
different songs. I'm quite sure the tuning I posted last year (for
Nimbus - C C Eb G Bb C F D A G D D) is correct for that song, as
is echoed by jbelzak.
>
> As for the reversal of the B string pair (A and G), I remember
debating both possibilities (A and G, or G and A) while I was
figuring out the tuning, and I somehow (I can't exactly recall how)
became convinced that the correct order was indeed A and G. It might
have had something to do with how comfortable that particular order
was for me (in regards to my right hand picking) when I tried to
play some of the intro to Nimbus. I'm curious to know how imporant
that pitch reversal is when trying to accurately play this song. Is
it a question of right hand comfort or is it a pivotal issue - one
which must be addressed in order to play the song correctly? jbelzak
(or anyone else), feel free to share your views on that.
>
> Anyways, it's good to see that people are checking out the tuning
I posted. I'll have to check out that new poster's tuning too.
>
> Jonathan K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fbelsak <jbelzak@a...>
> Sent: Aug 19, 2004 3:33 AM
> To: Ralph_Towner@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Ralph_Towner] 12 string (mini thesis) -dissertation
>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> august 18th 
> 
> 2004-005 
> 
> I have been reading alot - there is an issue of GUITAR PLAYER 
> magazine 
> 
> where mr. Michael Rutherford supposedly gives out the 'tuning' for
a 
> GENESIS song called 'the Musical Box' 
> 
> but it's absolutely incorrect - either because of a publishing
typo 
> or most likely he really doesn't want to share this 'secret' 
> 
> no - it's a typo -he says this: "Well, the Musical Box is an odd
one. 
> The top 3 pairs of strings on the 12 string are tuned with the E
 
> strings up to F #, the B strings lowered to F #, and the G's down
to 
> F #..." 
> (either a typo or he's mis-spoken) 
> 
> Bob Morris played this song in his band, 'Polyphony', and used the
 
> tuning I gave him_! 
> the high E strings *up! to F # 
> the B strings Up to C # 
> the G's down a half step to F # 
> 
> 
> Rutherford goes on to say: "i sometimes tune pairs of strings in
 
> harmony, instead of in unisons or octaves... 
> in the Cinema Show i tune the acoustic (12 string) so the top
strings 
> are D and A rather than having both of them at E " 
> i understand the first part of this but can't fathom how he could
 
> play Cinema Show as described here! 
> 
> i figured out Cinema Show when i was a freshman still in high
school 
> (Cleveland) THAT WASN'T HOW I played it, tuned it - but now i've
 
> pretty much forgotten. not completely, but i think it involved
tuning 
> the octave on the D string to a harmony, then maybe the octave on
the 
> G (3rd) string, as well..i'm pretty sure or maybe the A (5th) 
> 
> WHO KNOWS? 
> 
> 
> here you have a 12 string concept for Raplh Towner's Nimbus: 
> 
> From low to high: 
> C C Eb G Bb C F D A G D D 
> or: 
> C#C# E G# B C# F#D# A# G# D#D# 
> 
> 
> VERY GOOD. 
> 
> i think it 'twas was right the first time! 
> 
> C C Eb G Bb C F D A G D D 
> 
> but notice the 2nd string (B strings) maybe the A - G tuned B
strings 
> 
> could and SHOULD be reversed: G - A makes more sense to me. 
> 
> since you would normally pluck up-wards motion with your right
hand 
> fingers, and the A note harmonizes better with the first string
 
> melody (E string, in pedestrian terms!) 
> 
> the RIGHT HAND picking is absolutely integral to the execution;
and 
> you got to have some pretty formally correct classical guitar 
> training to even attempt it! ( which is about all i can do at
this 
> point - i'm tryin' though) 
> 
> thanks for working out this amazing tuning, 
> 
> again, thanks! 
> 
> best wishes j. 
> 
> 
> </tt>

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