--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Homzy <homzy@v...> wrote:
> With the permission of the author, I thought members of this list would
> appreciate this poignant elegie:
>
> From: Ed Sisu <edsisu@m...>
> Reply-To: Ed Sisu <edsisu@m...>
> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:03:25 -0400
> To: duke-lym@c...
> Subject: THE DEATH OF NEW ORLEANS
>
>
> My Friends
>
> This is a very sad day for the American People
> and a sadder day for jazz. New Orleans is gone,
> with irreperable damage to the infrastructure
> of this once grand and proud old city.
>
> You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see
> that the devistation of Bourbon St and immediate
> surrounding streets and thoroughfares can never
> be salvaged, let alone recovered.
>
> What is even sadder is that didn't have to happen.
> For years the city fathers have considered doing
> something radical to the levee systems around the
> city in the event of a hurricane of this magnitude.
>
> They couldn't get help from the government to pay
> the 2 billion odd dollars - the price that the war in Iraq
> costs Americans to fund every week.
>
> In view of the recent political discussions on LYM that
> have included Bush's war. Every God fearing American
> should pray to their God for some kind of redemption.
>
> Everyone around the world who loves jazz should honor
> the memory of this historic city in it's agony and final
> death throws as well as it's population at this time.
>
> Perhaps the more eloquent members of this group should
> suggest what LYM can do to help remember the memories
> of all the great jazz pioneers who called New Orleans home.
>
> Most Respectfully and with a sad aching heart
>
> Ed Sisu,
I agree to what Ed says.
It's very sad to see New Orleans so damaged. The city of happiness, the city
of good music, the city of Jazz now is hurt.
This is another horrible consequence of war and this confirms that music, art
and culture could not develop with hatred and without respect for other
people.
Many jazzmen taught us to learn from different cultures; just look where good
old New Orleans boys Satchmo and Sidney Bechet travelled. Simply with
their instruments and their syncopated music, they became heroes for
everyone in the world.
Nicola
> I agree to what Ed says.
So do I, but I don't agree with posting the forwarded message a second time.
And I don't agree with repeating a politically oriented comment which is by
no means an element in any topic-related discussion.
Patrice
> Many jazzmen taught us to learn from different cultures; just look
where good
> old New Orleans boys Satchmo and Sidney Bechet travelled. Simply with
> their instruments and their syncopated music, they became heroes for
> everyone in the world.
>
> Nicola
Well said that.
The sad thing about it, is that New Orleans today is like the 3rd
world. And so are several areas in the south US.
The infrastructure is 90% of what makes the difference. And the things
that happens in the 3rd world happens there as well. This is an
opportunity for US to do something for it's own citizens. No country
in the world offered help to America in this situation as of yet. All
the generousity of America and still thats what they get for it. Thats
a shame because some humanitary attitude could be shown.
Poor New Orleans. Farewell. Now I'm going to listen to some New
Orleans 1920's Jazz.
I'm thankful to this excellent group that I feel now is even more
important, as we really know and dig a lot of the New Orleans culture
and tradition.
Hi,
Just wanted to let everyone know that from all accounts I have read
from New Orleans news sources (WWL TV, nola. com), the French Quarter
is/has been dry (it's one of the highest points in the city).
Unfortunately one wouldn't know this by watching national news...no
water equals no story. A very brief view down Bourbon Street on the
ABC special last night showed the water on Canal stopping before
Iberville Street, yet the report was that the French Quarter was
flooded. I haven't seen ANY footage from the Quarter.
So, this being said, Bourbon Street is NOT flooded.
Yet the situation there is very, very bad.
For those who want accurate info from the Crescent City, I heartily
recommend www.wwltv.com and nola.com as mentioned above. WWL-tv is
available live over the 'net.
Chris Tyle
Not being in the USA I didn't want to get involved in this debate
because I would not know as much as those living there. However, on
the morning news after the hurricane there was a report on BBC
television which expressly said that the French Quarter was
unaffected. The reporter was on Canal Street which was obviously NOT
under water but badly buffeted.
So this underlines what Chris has said. However, it is still a
disaster of unimaginable proportions even if historic regions have
been spared.
Hugh
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Tyle" <silverleafjb@y...>
wrote:
> Hi,
> Just wanted to let everyone know that from all accounts I have read
> from New Orleans news sources (WWL TV, nola. com), the French
Quarter
> is/has been dry (it's one of the highest points in the city).
>
> Unfortunately one wouldn't know this by watching national news...no
> water equals no story. A very brief view down Bourbon Street on the
> ABC special last night showed the water on Canal stopping before
> Iberville Street, yet the report was that the French Quarter was
> flooded. I haven't seen ANY footage from the Quarter.
>
> So, this being said, Bourbon Street is NOT flooded.
>
> Yet the situation there is very, very bad.
>
> For those who want accurate info from the Crescent City, I heartily
> recommend www.wwltv.com and nola.com as mentioned above. WWL-tv is
> available live over the 'net.
>
> Chris Tyle
I had to remove Andrew's original post (FW: the death of New Orleans) from
the group's archives.
This has nothing to do with the content or any kind of paranoid fear, and
you can still read it in the first replies.
I just learnt that a link to this message was used outside the group for
spamming purpose, so the only important thing was to remove the target -
expecting things won't get worse, in which case I would have to close the
archives to non-members.
Please be very careful about forwarded messages, hoaxes have already started
invading several groups, mainly asking for money (and sometimes using
exactly the same text as the previous hoaxes sent after the Tsunami)
ALL calls for donations sent by email are hoaxes - only trust reliable
websites and organisations.
And before it happens, in case new members didn't know, "chain letters" are
strictly forbidden on all Yahoo groups.
Thanks for your attention
Patrice
Hi Patrice,
Just so everyone knows my post is not asking for money to be donated. Only
good musicians coming together. We will be looking for sponsors and a bank
to handle any money. I want nothing to do with the financial end of things.
Only to help where I can in the way I know best. Music heals.
-Adriel
On 9/1/05 4:01 PM, "Patrice Champarou" <patrice.champarou@...> wrote:
> I had to remove Andrew's original post (FW: the death of New Orleans) from
> the group's archives.
> This has nothing to do with the content or any kind of paranoid fear, and
> you can still read it in the first replies.
> I just learnt that a link to this message was used outside the group for
> spamming purpose, so the only important thing was to remove the target -
> expecting things won't get worse, in which case I would have to close the
> archives to non-members.
>
> Please be very careful about forwarded messages, hoaxes have already started
> invading several groups, mainly asking for money (and sometimes using
> exactly the same text as the previous hoaxes sent after the Tsunami)
> ALL calls for donations sent by email are hoaxes - only trust reliable
> websites and organisations.
> And before it happens, in case new members didn't know, "chain letters" are
> strictly forbidden on all Yahoo groups.
>
> Thanks for your attention
>
> Patrice
>
>
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Adriel <azure.music@v...> wrote:
> Hi Patrice,
> Just so everyone knows my post is not asking for money to be
donated. Only
> good musicians coming together. We will be looking for sponsors
and a bank
> to handle any money. I want nothing to do with the financial end
of things.
> Only to help where I can in the way I know best. Music heals.
>
> -Adriel
What a fast reply!
So if YOU are jazzforthem@..., you'll have to explain why you
tried to join the group a second time, under an assumed name,
pretending to be a girl!
But I'm afraid you'll have to explain this off-list, I'm fed up with
cheaters, liars and people who try to use this group to advertise
their own individual projects and keep ignoring all rules!
P.
Definitely was not me 100%. It sucks that people are abusing the list. If
you'll notice I've had posts prior to this. See My Girl's Pussy thread.
I replied quickly due to the fact that I had just posted my listing right
before you sent out your e-mail.
Girl? Adriel is a male name.
-Adriel
On 9/1/05 4:18 PM, "Patrice Champarou" <patrice.champarou@...> wrote:
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Adriel <azure.music@v...> wrote:
>> Hi Patrice,
>> Just so everyone knows my post is not asking for money to be
> donated. Only
>> good musicians coming together. We will be looking for sponsors
> and a bank
>> to handle any money. I want nothing to do with the financial end
> of things.
>> Only to help where I can in the way I know best. Music heals.
>>
>> -Adriel
>
> What a fast reply!
>
> So if YOU are jazzforthem@..., you'll have to explain why you
> tried to join the group a second time, under an assumed name,
> pretending to be a girl!
>
> But I'm afraid you'll have to explain this off-list, I'm fed up with
> cheaters, liars and people who try to use this group to advertise
> their own individual projects and keep ignoring all rules!
>
> P.
>
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Adriel <azure.music@v...> wrote:
> Definitely was not me 100%. It sucks that people are abusing the
list.
Oooops! Sorry, Adriel, I received your second mail before your
annoucement, so it looked like a direct reply to my explanations about
the "incident".
> If you'll notice I've had posts prior to this.
Yes, I know ;)
At least everyone will have an idea of the kind of problems I have to
face now that the group has grown. And yes, I'm a bit... irritated ;)
P.
Totally not a probem. Spammers or should I say leeches and parasites need to
be blocked off at every turn. You do a great job!
_Adriel
On 9/1/05 4:40 PM, "Patrice Champarou" <patrice.champarou@...> wrote:
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Adriel <azure.music@v...> wrote:
>> Definitely was not me 100%. It sucks that people are abusing the
> list.
>
> Oooops! Sorry, Adriel, I received your second mail before your
> annoucement, so it looked like a direct reply to my explanations about
> the "incident".
>
>> If you'll notice I've had posts prior to this.
>
> Yes, I know ;)
>
> At least everyone will have an idea of the kind of problems I have to
> face now that the group has grown. And yes, I'm a bit... irritated ;)
>
> P.
>
Sorry if this is too spammy but, I think it needs to be posted. If you can
help, know people who can help,etc or would just like to make a donation to
the RED CROSS http://www.redcross.org
I'm doing it locally but, do it everywhere.
=======
Call to Jazz musicians in New England for New Orleans
Hi Everyone,
I am in the process of putting together a benefit for New Orleans, i.e.
Hurricane relief.
This is very much just getting off the ground but, I am sending out e-mails
to my fellow musicians and also working on getting some organizers together.
So here's the deal; I would like to hear from musicians in the jazz,
Dixieland swing, gypsy jazz, zydeco or anything New Orleans centric really
who would be interested in coming to MA/RI to help with a benefit by
donating their performances.
I believe there is a potential to create multiple evenings in multiple
locations.
As I said this is very much in the beginning works but, securing locations
would be easier if I already have a list of people willing to play.
Additionally, if you know of any possible sponsors please have them contact
me.
I think that as musicians in general but, especially jazz musicians we
absolutely owe this to New Orleans, it's culture, history, music and
inhabitants.
Please e-mail me at your convenience. Thanks!
Please say a prayer (any denomination or just a good thought) for the
survivors and the lost.
All the best,
-Adriel
Send e-mails here:
adriel@...
Hi All,
I realize this is not really jazz orientated, but here in Australia I saw
mention on Friday, that Fats Domino was missing in New Orleans. Since then
no word or update on his whereabouts.
Has anyone heard anything?
Peter L
He's in Houston. They found him he's ok.
-A
On 9/2/05 9:27 PM, "Peter L. Reid" <reid1947@...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I realize this is not really jazz orientated, but here in Australia I saw
> mention on Friday, that Fats Domino was missing in New Orleans. Since then
> no word or update on his whereabouts.
> Has anyone heard anything?
> Peter L
>
>
\
Why would a man whose repertoire includes The Fat Man (a variant of Dupree's
"Junker's Blues") and "Eh La Bas", and work (in the early days at least)
with a band of the stature of Dave Bartholomew's, not be *jazz oriented*,
and New Orleans jazz oriented at that?
Just a peeve at too much categorisation - I'm relieved like everyone else
that people like Fats, Irma Thomas and Allen Toussaint have been found alive
and well.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter L. Reid" <reid1947@...>
To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 9:27 AM
Subject: [RedHotJazz] Fats Domino
> Hi All,
> I realize this is not really jazz orientated, but here in Australia I saw
> mention on Friday, that Fats Domino was missing in New Orleans. Since then
> no word or update on his whereabouts.
> Has anyone heard anything?
> Peter L
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Prof_Hi_Jinx wrote:
>Why would a man whose repertoire includes The Fat Man (a variant of Dupree's
>"Junker's Blues") and "Eh La Bas", and work (in the early days at least)
>with a band of the stature of Dave Bartholomew's, not be *jazz oriented*,
>and New Orleans jazz oriented at that?
>
>Just a peeve at too much categorisation - I'm relieved like everyone else
>that people like Fats, Irma Thomas and Allen Toussaint have been found alive
>and well.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
Thanks, Bob. I just got hold of a collection of his pre "Blueberry
Hill" recordings. It opened my eyes. He is a fine piano player who's
not limited to the simple 12/8 pumping that was on a lot of his hit
records. He's not a one dimensional singer either. He got typecast and
made all the money he could from it. Ain't that a shame. He's a real
musician in the New Orleans tradition of ignoring categories.
I agree with the comments about Fats Domino's status. Yes, he was typecast (and
made money out of - why not?) as a rock 'n' roll star in the 50s and early 60s
but in those days the distinctions were not quite as marked as they later
became. And didn't Louis Armstrong introduce him in glowing terms at the Newport
Jazz Festival sometime in the early 50s?
I haven't heard much of his piano playing other than the 12/8 stuff (later
called rock 'n' roll triplets) apart from The Fat Man but his blues singing and
the power of his bands (with arrangements often by Dave Bartholemew) are enough
to warrant his status.
I saw on Yahoo yesterday that he is 77. Time flies ... Louis introduced him as
'this young man'.
Hugh
Joel Fritz <lc_calamese@...> wrote:
Prof_Hi_Jinx wrote:
>Why would a man whose repertoire includes The Fat Man (a variant of Dupree's
>"Junker's Blues") and "Eh La Bas", and work (in the early days at least)
>with a band of the stature of Dave Bartholomew's, not be *jazz oriented*,
>and New Orleans jazz oriented at that?
>
>Just a peeve at too much categorisation - I'm relieved like everyone else
>that people like Fats, Irma Thomas and Allen Toussaint have been found alive
>and well.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
Thanks, Bob. I just got hold of a collection of his pre "Blueberry
Hill" recordings. It opened my eyes. He is a fine piano player who's
not limited to the simple 12/8 pumping that was on a lot of his hit
records. He's not a one dimensional singer either. He got typecast and
made all the money he could from it. Ain't that a shame. He's a real
musician in the New Orleans tradition of ignoring categories.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Perry Bradford's session with Louis Armstrong (2 November, 1925),
discographies (and Maurice Waller's book) initially identified Fats Waller and
James P. Johnson, then later Fats *or* James P. Now most agree on just
James P. (hey, that rhymes). Listening closely to these low-fidelity sides, it
seems the early identification of both artists may be correct, though only one
piano is audible. On "Lucy Long" it does sound distinctly like Johnson, but on
"I
Ain't Gonna Play No Second Fiddle" I think I might hear Waller's famous hard-
stomping, deep-in-the-keys left hand (though the sound is indistinct). It's
especially intriguing because Waller seems to have made no (other?) records
in 1925. Any opinions on this...?
Hello Spacelights
The "Storyville Team" list seven records that Fats Waller made in 1925
accompanying Alberta Hunter, Anna Jones, and Hazel Meyers, but the Perry
Bradford Jazz Phools' tracks with Louis Armstrong are not mentioned.
The Dave Carey/Albert McCarthy/Ralph Venables "Jazz Directory" (published July,
1949) states that the pianist on the November 2, 1925 session is James P.
Johnson, and is probably the pianist on the October 7, 1925 session.
Cheers
Bob Smith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Joel Fritz <lc_calamese@...>
>Prof_Hi_Jinx wrote:
> >Just a peeve at too much categorisation - I'm relieved like everyone else
> >that people like Fats, Irma Thomas and Allen Toussaint have been found
> alive
> >and well.
> >
> >Bob
My comment wasn't meant to categorize. I have been chastised on other lists
by asking what I considered to be an inoccuous question; and as someone who
rarely has input to this list, I didn't wish to offend any Puritan who may
lurk in the wings. I can find jazz/blues (to my mind) in a deal of music
outside the realms of what I would define as jazz.
Didn't Janis Joplin once state that Bessie had an influence on her singing?
Joe Cocker has admitted to being influenced early on, by Black blues
singers, Eric Clapton in the 60's, even early Elvis (Lovin' You).
The wonderful thing about music is that nowhere in the world can one find
two people who like exactly the same sounds, or whose musical opinions
agree. I have had friends over the years who have loved the same Jelly,
Bessie, Oliver, Ellington, Bix, that I do, but have turned their noses up
because I happen to like some Rock n' Roll as well (that recorded prior to
1970 anyway).
Peter L.
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Smith" <robert.smith@m...>
wrote:
> Hello Spacelights
>
> The "Storyville Team" list seven records that Fats Waller made in 1925
accompanying Alberta Hunter, Anna Jones, and Hazel Meyers, but the Perry
Bradford Jazz Phools' tracks with Louis Armstrong are not mentioned.
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the input; my sources (including Laurie and the "Team") list these
dates:
acc. Alberta Hunter c. July 1923
acc. Anna Jones c. July 1923
acc. Hazel Meyers 5 August 1924
After the Hazel Meyers date, Fats seems to have made no records for a year
and a half. Part of the confusion regarding the Bradford personnel on 2
November, 1925 might come from the rejected October session you
mentioned, which featured the same two songs. Also, Armstrong really
dominates the November date; it was to be his last in New York for a while, and
I guess he knew it (he was back in Chicago, recording, a week later)...
John
Hi, there, I just signed up and forgive me for asking a
newbie/unitiated question.
I'm interested in copyright issues and music recordings.
I have a question that is difficult and probably not terribly relevant
to most of your discussions.
Can you point to any sources about how to figure out if early
recordings are no longer owned under copyright. (and hence are free to
distribute, copy, etc).
I've found from here
http://www.legallanguage.com/lawarticles/Clarida007.html that
recordings before 1972 are governed by state laws rather than federal
copyright laws. so you'd probably have to do your legal research at
the state level. (that's quite apart from locating original
recordings, etc).
I'd appreciate any links you might have about how to determine
copyright status of early recorded works. Also, do you have a
general idea about what the laws have been in states producing lots of
jazz (I'm probably thinking Louisiana, Illinois, New York).
I realize this is a big somewhat annoying and controversial question,
and probably deserves a forum in itself. But if you have a few lines
of information to say about this, I'd appreciate hearing. You can post
here or to my email idiotprogrammer @ fastmailbox.net.
One other thing. I stumbled upon your site after looking up Irving
Aaronson. Wow! Thanks.
Robert Nagle
Houston, Texas
http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/
While we rejoice over the safety of Fats and the other great performers, has
anyone heard anything from the guys at Jazzology.com, George Buck and Barry
Martyn? Their office was there in the French Quarter, has anyone heard
anything about them?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I remember a poster at the group some time ago saying they bought a cd
by the Paragon Ragtime Orchestra and enjoyed it and someone else
mentioned the cd's were kind of pricey at $17.I sure can't afford $17
for Cd's but i go to a used cd store occasionally that has used cd's in
large bins for $2 each.I kpet searching and today i found one- Paragon
Ragtime Orchestra cd of Black Manhattan-Theater and Dance Music of
James Reese Europe,Will Marion Cook and members of the legendary Clef
Club.I can say it was worth looking for- The band plays very spirited
orchestral ragtime in the style of the time.The most interesting tune
which i had never heard before was "Sambo:A Characteristic Two Step
March" a composition by William Tyers who composed Panama.Also
interesting was the tune Cocoanut Grove Jazz composed in 1917.It is a
tune with the word jazz from 1917 i had never heard before.
I can say i highly recommend the authentic playing of the Paragon
Ragtime Orchestra. The cd is definitely worth $2 if you can find it
used.
The best re creation band i have ever heard is Dan Levinson's Roof
Garden Jass Band Salutes The ODJB on some cd label called Loup-Garous.
Scott wrote:
> Perhaps this will help:
> http://www.bromsun.com/images/flowchart.gif
I have not followed this discussion thread, but it looks interesting!
Is the original question regarding the copyright status of sound
recordings? Or to song compositions? Or to written material?
Regarding the copyright status in the U.S. of sound recordings, refer
to: http://www.teleread.org/blog/2003_10_26_archive.html#106768614604144566
In summary, U.S. Federal Copyright law does NOT cover sound recordings
recorded before Feb. 15, 1972. Instead, they are covered under a maze
of State laws (as explained in the article.) The net effect is that
under some State copyright laws, there is no expiration, so
technically the earliest commercial sound recordings from the late
1800's are protected!
The rules used to determine the copyright status of printed materials
don't apply to sound recordings.
Now song compositions, that's another matter, and they are covered
under U.S. Copyright law using the same rules (I think) as written
materials. Any song composition published in the U.S. before 1923 is
definitely Public Domain.
Jon Noring
Scott, actually it doesn't.
According to federal law 301c., pre1972 recordings are NOT covered by
federal copyright law. I am not a lawyer, so I don't have the ability
to interpret this law (and maybe I am missing something very serious).
Here's the passage:
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html [copyright.gov]
(c) With respect to sound recordings fixed before February 15, 1972,
any rights or remedies under the common law or statutes of any State
shall not be annulled or limited by this title until February 15,
2067. The preemptive provisions of subsection (a) shall apply to any
such rights and remedies pertaining to any cause of action arising
from undertakings commenced on and after February 15, 2067.
Notwithstanding the provisions of section 303, no sound recording
fixed before February 15, 1972, shall be subject to copyright under
this title before, on, or after February 15, 2067.
The way I read it, it says that state laws about
copyright/recordings(not federal laws) take precedence over federal
copyright law for all recordings prior to 1972. Frankly, I have no
idea how long copyright lasts according to state laws prior to 1972.
This sounds pretty amazing (and horrifying) to me if it is true. And
by the way, that's why it probably is extremely useful to know the
state where the recording is made (I notice the site has this
information easily available).
As I said, I don't want to be giving out wrong information unless I
first verify. (so please, no one take my word as gospel). But I
wanted to see if anyone in your group had any experience dealing with
these issues before.
Robert Nagle
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Scott Alexander <scott@t...> wrote:
> Perhaps this will help:
> http://www.bromsun.com/images/flowchart.gif
Hi folks,
I've just borrowed the following from
_http://www.btinternet.com/~jazzworld/tradjazz.htm_
(http://www.btinternet.com/~jazzworld/tradjazz.htm) , an
amazingly useful jazz site, based in NW England. No word on George Buck
unfortunately. I'll see if I can find out more.
"Pete Lay tells me, "N.O. musicians Les Muscatt and Chris Burke are
currently touring the U.K. Les is concerned about his property, but as he is
near the
Quarter it might be okay unless it has been looted". Pete Vickers tells me,
"Just had it on the grapevine that Barry Martyn moved out to Chris Burke's
place in good time and is now heading for Tallahassee and that Michael White is
OK. I'll let you know any more information as I get it. Cheers Pete"
Cheers,
Fred McCormick.
In a message dated 04/09/2005 16:06:13 GMT Standard Time,
RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com writes:
While we rejoice over the safety of Fats and the other great performers,
has
anyone heard anything from the guys at Jazzology.com, George Buck and Barry
Martyn? Their office was there in the French Quarter, has anyone heard
anything about them?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you really want to get confused start investigating the concept of
fair use and how it fits into this copyright mess that has been created.
I'm not a lawyer either, but I've had no complaints about copyright
violations with the recordings on the Red Hot Jazz Archive and I've been
streaming audio on the Internet since February of 1996. I've talked to
lawyers about this issue and their opinion was that that no clear legal
precedent has been set in regards to fair use and and public domain and
how it applied to the Internet. Until that happens the laws can be
interpreted in various ways.
Why don't you talk to Lawrence Lessig (http://www.lessig.org/blog) ? He
challenged the current copyright laws at the Supreme Court. He has
looked into this from a legal perspective more than just about anyone.
He is a lawyer and he is aware of the Red Hot Jazz Archive. He is also
the main man of the Creative Commons gang. (http://creativecommons.org)
Scott Alexander
The Red Hot Jazz Archive
www.redhotjazz.com
I know it's been said before, but you need to remember that there are two
potential forms of protection:
(c) which covers the "work"; and
(p) which covers the recording
It is only the (p) right (in the recording as "fixed") that commenced in
1972 in the US - it is highly doubtful that there was *any* protection for
recordings as such in the US before 1972.
However there *may* be state "common law" or statute rights in (p)
recordings, which may be eternal or may extend to 2047, depending on
recording date (and, of course, location), and are highly nebulous.
In the case of (c) rights, most works composed before 1922 are now in public
domain, and a large number of non-copyrighted works from after that date are
not protected - but see Section 303 of the 1976 Act as amended.
In the case of (c) rights, the British Empire brought an end to common law
copyright in 1911, and it is arguable that the US did the same as from 1978.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "robertdotnagle" <idiotprogrammer@...>
To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 10:58 AM
Subject: [RedHotJazz] Re: copyright and early jazz
> Scott, actually it doesn't.
>
> According to federal law 301c., pre1972 recordings are NOT covered by
> federal copyright law. I am not a lawyer, so I don't have the ability
> to interpret this law (and maybe I am missing something very serious).
> Here's the passage:
>
> http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html [copyright.gov]
> (c) With respect to sound recordings fixed before February 15, 1972,
> any rights or remedies under the common law or statutes of any State
> shall not be annulled or limited by this title until February 15,
> 2067. The preemptive provisions of subsection (a) shall apply to any
> such rights and remedies pertaining to any cause of action arising
> from undertakings commenced on and after February 15, 2067.
> Notwithstanding the provisions of section 303, no sound recording
> fixed before February 15, 1972, shall be subject to copyright under
> this title before, on, or after February 15, 2067.
>
> The way I read it, it says that state laws about
> copyright/recordings(not federal laws) take precedence over federal
> copyright law for all recordings prior to 1972. Frankly, I have no
> idea how long copyright lasts according to state laws prior to 1972.
>
> This sounds pretty amazing (and horrifying) to me if it is true. And
> by the way, that's why it probably is extremely useful to know the
> state where the recording is made (I notice the site has this
> information easily available).
>
> As I said, I don't want to be giving out wrong information unless I
> first verify. (so please, no one take my word as gospel). But I
> wanted to see if anyone in your group had any experience dealing with
> these issues before.
>
> Robert Nagle
>
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Scott Alexander <scott@t...> wrote:
>> Perhaps this will help:
>> http://www.bromsun.com/images/flowchart.gif
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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