i note from Preservation Hall Portraits(text by Borenstein & Russell)
that Willie Humphrey went to Chicago in the fall of 1919 and played
with Oliver at the world series,George Filhe at the DeLuxe cafe and
with Freddy Keppard.
As a newcomer to red hot Jazz how does one get to see the Photos? I
note that Robert smith attached one of Oliver's Band but I couldn't see
it.
Hello "fraser540021"
Sorry I sent you on a wild goose chase. The King Oliver photo was requested by
another group member in connection with identifying the band members. However, I
accidently sent the E-mail with the photo attached to the group. Any attachments
on such E-mails are stripped off, so nobody got this photo.
Since there seems to be an interest in this photo I have now uploaded it to the
group's home page in the album "King Oliver" in the "Photos" section. There are
also three versions of the classic photo of the Creole Band at "Yahoo! Photo
Album".
If you can't access the "Photos" section at:
http://launch.groups.com/group/RedHotJazz/
then you'll need to open an E-mail address with Yahoo.
If this doesn't work then let me know and I'll send you a copy.
Regards
Bob Smith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Go to your local book store and check into a Da Capo reprint of Rudi Blesh's
1958 udated version of his 1946 book "Shining Trumpets".I've read both
versions;I had the hardbound edition of "Shining Trumpets" as well as the
paperback version.It had a lot of pictures of the New Orleans musicians as well
as the venues such as Funky Butt as well as Mahogany Hall.I have had strong
reservations regarding Blesh's opinions of what jazz is as opposed to what
wasn't.Reservations aside,It is a valuable reference regarding the early days of
jazz.I had the paperbook version but gave it to a friend of mine some twenty
years ago.Also,check into the book Blesh also wrote "They All Played
Ragtime".You can check ebay,amazon.com or your local book store."They All Played
Ragtime" is the one I haven't read.Regarding Buddy Bolden,there was a fairly new
book regarding him.Do a Google search on his life with Buddy Bolden as the
search engine.Another book you might check out is Bugles for
Beiderbecke which was published back in 1958.The author was a British attorney
named Charles Wearing.I could be wrong on that as I had a copy and gave it to a
dear friend of mine around
tweny five to thirty years ago.There is a website that dealt with the history
of the Starr Piano Company and its Gennett label which recorded Bix,Lawrence
Welk,King Oliver,Jelly Roll Morton and countless others.
fraser540021 <fraser.mccombe@...> wrote:
i note from Preservation Hall Portraits(text by Borenstein & Russell)
that Willie Humphrey went to Chicago in the fall of 1919 and played
with Oliver at the world series,George Filhe at the DeLuxe cafe and
with Freddy Keppard.
As a newcomer to red hot Jazz how does one get to see the Photos? I
note that Robert smith attached one of Oliver's Band but I couldn't see
it.
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've been away a few days since my post, but have since checked the
photo in the pictorial history "Black Beauty White Heat" (Driggs,
Lewine, Bacon), and that book gives the personnel in the photo as:
(left to right) Minor Hall, drums; Honore Dutrey, trombone; King
Oliver, cornet; Lawrence Duhe, first clarinet; Willie Humphrey,
second clarinet; Johnny Palao, tenor sax; with band members Wellman
Braud and Bud Scott not pictured.
Incidentally, this was the 1919 World Series that is infamous
as the "Black Sox" Series, for a scandal involving gamblers paying
players to cheat. And it was just at the outset of Jimmy Yancey's
three decade employment as a groundskeeper at that ballpark, where
he was at least once or twice captured in the background of sports
photos.
Warren
-- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "silverleafjb"
<silverleafjb@...> wrote:
>
> I think maybe Jimmy Palao might be the sax player...is it Dutrey on
> trombone???
>
> Cheers,
> Chris Tyle
The seminal work on Bolden is "In search of Buddy Bolden" by Donald m
Marquis,a revised edition of which has recently appeared.Published by
Louisiana state University press.Don Marquis also wrote an earlier book
on Bolden but it's title has escaped me.Interestingly enough the
current edition of New orleans Music(Vol 13/4) is almost entirely
devoted to Bolden.
On the subject of the Oliver photo,two appear in Laurie Wright's
book "King" Oliver published by Storyville in 1987.the caption gives
the personnel as :- OLIVER/DUTREY/LAWRENCE DUHE/WILLIE
HUMPHREY/J.POLLARD/WELLMAN BRAUD/MINOR HALL.tHE BOOK STATES THAT IT WAS
IN FACT DUHE'S BAND.
Robert,thanks for the info re the photo.
Fraser Mccombe
Many thanks, it seems logical though I think the writer is
overestimating the importance of the recording in terms of "Hot Jazz".
Lester Young wasn't very much the hot player and if he was influenced
by this recordings it says it's not as "hot" as expected. Lester Young
had a sweet side in his playing that was even filmed in a movie.
tommersl
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@...> wrote:
>
> From
>
http://physics.fortlewis.edu/Astronomy/astronomy%20today/CHAISSON/AT303/HTML/AT3\
0304.HTM
>
> As an object is heated the radiation it emits peaks at higher and
> higher frequencies. When the metal is at room temperature (300 K— the
> K scale is C + 273) it emits only invisible infrared radiation. At
> 1000 K, for instance, most of the emitted radiation is still infrared,
> but now there is also a small amount of visible (dull red) radiation
> being emitted. As the temperature continues to rise, the peak of the
> metal's blackbody curve moves through the visible spectrum, from red
> (4000 K) through yellow. The metal eventually becomes white hot
(7000 K).
>
> The above gives us the scientific definition of "white-hot." It is
> also used in common parlance to refer to degrees of heat of jazz. Of
> course, we have the red hot jazz archive which should be written as
> red-hot jazz. There are degrees of heat for jazz. When heat is absent,
> we call the music sweet. When the music swings and is jazzy, we call
> it hot. Grove on line defines hot jazz as "A term used to describe
> jazz, particularly early jazz and swing, of an exciting and energetic
> nature."
>
> I think the author is using the term white-hot in two ways.
> Explicitely as an indication that "Singin' the Blues" is not a sweet
> piece of music, and as a play on words to refer to the fact that this
> hot music is played by white musicians.
>
> Albert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The weekend edition (June 2-3, 2007) of The Wall Street Journal
> > > carries this very well-written article about the Bix and Tram
seminal
> > > recording of "Singin' the Blues." Here is the article in its
entirety.
> > >
> > > Albert
> > >
> > > **********************
> > > "MASTERPIECE"
> > >
> > > White-Hot Jazz Ballad
> > > The haunting 'Singin' the Blues' changed American music
> > >
> > > By TOM NOLAN
> > > June 2, 2007; Page P14
> > >
> >
> > Since the author seems to be careful and selective in his writing,
> > using double-quote precisely in place and etc, I wonder what the
> > "White-Hot Jazz Ballad" title means. Is it "'White Hot' Jazz Ballad"
> > or maybe "White:Hot Jazz Ballad". What is the definition of Hot Jazz?
> > Tommersl
> >
>
I was thinking about it further. The writer of the article
misunderstood IMO the contribution of "Singing The Blues" to Jazz
history. In his attempt he tries to show that white artists could be
hotter than black artists. The story of mutual influence is quite
loose in this case since white bands were tending to become sweeter
and black were the hotter, it means that actually he sees single-sided
influence! I think that by that he does no service to white huge
contribution to Jazz music. First, bands like early Paul Whiteman was
turning from a sweet WW1 songs marching band into Jazz band. And
several artists like Eddie Lang with the Classical background doing
harmonic ideas that were removed from what black Jazz artists were
doing at the time. White soloist with Classical background that were
adding a sweeter sound and expanding the Jazz idiom. By insisting on
the hot terminology we can miss the most contributing. It will be hard
to convince me that Singing The Blues solos was hotter than solos by
Johnny Dodds, Louis Armstrong or Bubber Miley. But I am convinced that
Jazz evolution was changed in the 1930's because of mutual influence.
Hot bands became sweeter. Sweet bands were playing hotter Jazz. It
made a refinement for both sides. The hot bands couldn't swing forever
in that powerful fashion, they needed some sweeter inspiration. Sweet
bands that were becoming hot were the best at that. What was so
groundbreaking in the New Orleans Rhythm Kings, Trambauer's,
Whiteman's and all other hot sweet bands unless they were inspired to
become hotter? And without the mutual inspiration would Louis
Armstrong and the whole 1930's Swing band would become such romantic
unless they were inspired? The best is to be precise.
Someone who came from a Classic/Romantic music background is carrying
it and someone who was from the simple Blues background carry it. Both
sides have to get rid of the limitations of their schools. The rest is
a matter of taste. I prefer the rough sound of New Orleans and similar
bands of the Hot 1920's Jazz, but I also like the Hot Sweet bands.
Recently I am digging those bands. It is ridiculous that people think
it's mutual exclusive to like Red Nichols and Bix and from the other
hand Johnny Dodds and Bubber Miley. I think all mentioned artists were
interesting musicians that contributed each in their own way.
Tommersl
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@...> wrote:
>
> Many thanks, it seems logical though I think the writer is
> overestimating the importance of the recording in terms of "Hot Jazz".
> Lester Young wasn't very much the hot player and if he was influenced
> by this recordings it says it's not as "hot" as expected. Lester Young
> had a sweet side in his playing that was even filmed in a movie.
> tommersl
>
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@> wrote:
> >
> > From
> >
>
http://physics.fortlewis.edu/Astronomy/astronomy%20today/CHAISSON/AT303/HTML/AT3\
0304.HTM
> >
> > As an object is heated the radiation it emits peaks at higher and
> > higher frequencies. When the metal is at room temperature (300 K— the
> > K scale is C + 273) it emits only invisible infrared radiation. At
> > 1000 K, for instance, most of the emitted radiation is still infrared,
> > but now there is also a small amount of visible (dull red) radiation
> > being emitted. As the temperature continues to rise, the peak of the
> > metal's blackbody curve moves through the visible spectrum, from red
> > (4000 K) through yellow. The metal eventually becomes white hot
> (7000 K).
> >
> > The above gives us the scientific definition of "white-hot." It is
> > also used in common parlance to refer to degrees of heat of jazz. Of
> > course, we have the red hot jazz archive which should be written as
> > red-hot jazz. There are degrees of heat for jazz. When heat is absent,
> > we call the music sweet. When the music swings and is jazzy, we call
> > it hot. Grove on line defines hot jazz as "A term used to describe
> > jazz, particularly early jazz and swing, of an exciting and energetic
> > nature."
> >
> > I think the author is using the term white-hot in two ways.
> > Explicitely as an indication that "Singin' the Blues" is not a sweet
> > piece of music, and as a play on words to refer to the fact that this
> > hot music is played by white musicians.
> >
> > Albert
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The weekend edition (June 2-3, 2007) of The Wall Street Journal
> > > > carries this very well-written article about the Bix and Tram
> seminal
> > > > recording of "Singin' the Blues." Here is the article in its
> entirety.
> > > >
> > > > Albert
> > > >
> > > > **********************
> > > > "MASTERPIECE"
> > > >
> > > > White-Hot Jazz Ballad
> > > > The haunting 'Singin' the Blues' changed American music
> > > >
> > > > By TOM NOLAN
> > > > June 2, 2007; Page P14
> > > >
> > >
> > > Since the author seems to be careful and selective in his writing,
> > > using double-quote precisely in place and etc, I wonder what the
> > > "White-Hot Jazz Ballad" title means. Is it "'White Hot' Jazz Ballad"
> > > or maybe "White:Hot Jazz Ballad". What is the definition of Hot
Jazz?
> > > Tommersl
> > >
> >
>
Tommersel,
You write, "The writer of the article misunderstood IMO the
contribution of "Singing The Blues" to Jazz history. In his attempt he
tries to show that white artists could be hotter than black artists."
I am afraid you misundestood what the writer told us. I do not see,
implictly or explicitly any place in the article where the writer
"tries to show that white artists could be hotter than black artists."
The following are the descriptions used by the author.
- "Singin' the Blues" had a subtle swing and a lyrical quality.
- Trumbauer and Beiderbecke's nearly three-minute platter would be
called "the first jazz ballad," and its haunting sound would forever
affect the course of America's indigenous music.
- "Singin' the Blues" starts off at a midtempo, foot-tapping pace that
suggests a very brisk walk along a country lane.
- His [Trumbauer's] improvised paraphrases and loping commentary on
the melody, played over the impeccably fingered lines of 24-year-old
acoustic-guitarist Eddie Lang, seem at once exuberant and thoughtful,
rhythmic and ruminative: 32 bars that mix the inevitability of art
with the ease of conversation.
- The second chorus belongs to Beiderbecke, a young man with a horn
playing on and around and in between the beat, in poignant phrases
that hit with force but leave a wistful echo.
I re-read the article carefully after you posted your comments, and I
cannot find any sentence or phrase where the author claims that
"white artists could be hotter than black artists." Here are the
pertinent quotes about back and white musicans.
- By 1927, both Beiderbecke and Trumbauer were already well known to
other white players of "hot" jazz. After "Singin' the Blues," they
became known to black players as well. "Singin' the Blues," billed on
its black-and-gold Okeh label as by "Frankie Trumbauer & His Orchestra
with Bix and Lang," rolled into all corners of a segregated America.
- Musicians all over the country learned to play those Beiderbecke and
Trumbauer solos note for note. Fletcher Henderson, the celebrated
African-American orchestra leader, had Caucasian arranger and
Beiderbecke disciple Bill Challis score "Singin' the Blues" for his
band with Tram's chorus written out for the whole reed section; and
when Henderson recorded it, he asked his own cornet star Rex Stewart
to emulate Bix's solo.
- Modern-era clarinetist Kenny Davern told jazz scholar Dick Sudhalter
of having once witnessed two black tenor-men, swing-to-bebop master
Don Byas and the veteran Eddie Barefield (yes, the same man on whose
door Lester Young once knocked), take out their horns during a chance
encounter in the 1960s and spontaneously run through Trumbauer's 1927
chorus from "Singin' the Blues." They told an astonished Davern,
"Everybody knew that chorus."
The author is not asserting that "white artists could be hotter than
balck artists." He is simply pointing out the tremendous impact that
Bix and Tram's recording of "Singin' the Blues" had in the jazz
community, black and white.
Albert
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@...> wrote:
>
> I was thinking about it further. The writer of the article
> misunderstood IMO the contribution of "Singing The Blues" to Jazz
> history. In his attempt he tries to show that white artists could be
> hotter than black artists. The story of mutual influence is quite
> loose in this case since white bands were tending to become sweeter
> and black were the hotter, it means that actually he sees single-sided
> influence! I think that by that he does no service to white huge
> contribution to Jazz music. First, bands like early Paul Whiteman was
> turning from a sweet WW1 songs marching band into Jazz band. And
> several artists like Eddie Lang with the Classical background doing
> harmonic ideas that were removed from what black Jazz artists were
> doing at the time. White soloist with Classical background that were
> adding a sweeter sound and expanding the Jazz idiom. By insisting on
> the hot terminology we can miss the most contributing. It will be hard
> to convince me that Singing The Blues solos was hotter than solos by
> Johnny Dodds, Louis Armstrong or Bubber Miley. But I am convinced that
> Jazz evolution was changed in the 1930's because of mutual influence.
> Hot bands became sweeter. Sweet bands were playing hotter Jazz. It
> made a refinement for both sides. The hot bands couldn't swing forever
> in that powerful fashion, they needed some sweeter inspiration. Sweet
> bands that were becoming hot were the best at that. What was so
> groundbreaking in the New Orleans Rhythm Kings, Trambauer's,
> Whiteman's and all other hot sweet bands unless they were inspired to
> become hotter? And without the mutual inspiration would Louis
> Armstrong and the whole 1930's Swing band would become such romantic
> unless they were inspired? The best is to be precise.
> Someone who came from a Classic/Romantic music background is carrying
> it and someone who was from the simple Blues background carry it. Both
> sides have to get rid of the limitations of their schools. The rest is
> a matter of taste. I prefer the rough sound of New Orleans and similar
> bands of the Hot 1920's Jazz, but I also like the Hot Sweet bands.
> Recently I am digging those bands. It is ridiculous that people think
> it's mutual exclusive to like Red Nichols and Bix and from the other
> hand Johnny Dodds and Bubber Miley. I think all mentioned artists were
> interesting musicians that contributed each in their own way.
> Tommersl
>
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@> wrote:
> >
> > Many thanks, it seems logical though I think the writer is
> > overestimating the importance of the recording in terms of "Hot Jazz".
> > Lester Young wasn't very much the hot player and if he was influenced
> > by this recordings it says it's not as "hot" as expected. Lester Young
> > had a sweet side in his playing that was even filmed in a movie.
> > tommersl
> >
> > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From
> > >
> >
>
http://physics.fortlewis.edu/Astronomy/astronomy%20today/CHAISSON/AT303/HTML/AT3\
0304.HTM
> > >
> > > As an object is heated the radiation it emits peaks at higher and
> > > higher frequencies. When the metal is at room temperature (300
K— the
> > > K scale is C + 273) it emits only invisible infrared radiation. At
> > > 1000 K, for instance, most of the emitted radiation is still
infrared,
> > > but now there is also a small amount of visible (dull red) radiation
> > > being emitted. As the temperature continues to rise, the peak of the
> > > metal's blackbody curve moves through the visible spectrum, from red
> > > (4000 K) through yellow. The metal eventually becomes white hot
> > (7000 K).
> > >
> > > The above gives us the scientific definition of "white-hot." It is
> > > also used in common parlance to refer to degrees of heat of jazz. Of
> > > course, we have the red hot jazz archive which should be written as
> > > red-hot jazz. There are degrees of heat for jazz. When heat is
absent,
> > > we call the music sweet. When the music swings and is jazzy, we call
> > > it hot. Grove on line defines hot jazz as "A term used to describe
> > > jazz, particularly early jazz and swing, of an exciting and
energetic
> > > nature."
> > >
> > > I think the author is using the term white-hot in two ways.
> > > Explicitely as an indication that "Singin' the Blues" is not a sweet
> > > piece of music, and as a play on words to refer to the fact that
this
> > > hot music is played by white musicians.
> > >
> > > Albert
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The weekend edition (June 2-3, 2007) of The Wall Street Journal
> > > > > carries this very well-written article about the Bix and Tram
> > seminal
> > > > > recording of "Singin' the Blues." Here is the article in its
> > entirety.
> > > > >
> > > > > Albert
> > > > >
> > > > > **********************
> > > > > "MASTERPIECE"
> > > > >
> > > > > White-Hot Jazz Ballad
> > > > > The haunting 'Singin' the Blues' changed American music
> > > > >
> > > > > By TOM NOLAN
> > > > > June 2, 2007; Page P14
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Since the author seems to be careful and selective in his writing,
> > > > using double-quote precisely in place and etc, I wonder what the
> > > > "White-Hot Jazz Ballad" title means. Is it "'White Hot' Jazz
Ballad"
> > > > or maybe "White:Hot Jazz Ballad". What is the definition of Hot
> Jazz?
> > > > Tommersl
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Albert, I was referring to the analogy the writer used of white-hot
since that the white-hot is the hottest in this analogy.
Tommersl
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@...> wrote:
>
> Tommersel,
>
> You write, "The writer of the article misunderstood IMO the
> contribution of "Singing The Blues" to Jazz history. In his attempt he
> tries to show that white artists could be hotter than black artists."
> I am afraid you misundestood what the writer told us. I do not see,
> implictly or explicitly any place in the article where the writer
> "tries to show that white artists could be hotter than black artists."
>
> The following are the descriptions used by the author.
>
> - "Singin' the Blues" had a subtle swing and a lyrical quality.
>
> - Trumbauer and Beiderbecke's nearly three-minute platter would be
> called "the first jazz ballad," and its haunting sound would forever
> affect the course of America's indigenous music.
>
> - "Singin' the Blues" starts off at a midtempo, foot-tapping pace that
> suggests a very brisk walk along a country lane.
>
> - His [Trumbauer's] improvised paraphrases and loping commentary on
> the melody, played over the impeccably fingered lines of 24-year-old
> acoustic-guitarist Eddie Lang, seem at once exuberant and thoughtful,
> rhythmic and ruminative: 32 bars that mix the inevitability of art
> with the ease of conversation.
>
> - The second chorus belongs to Beiderbecke, a young man with a horn
> playing on and around and in between the beat, in poignant phrases
> that hit with force but leave a wistful echo.
>
> I re-read the article carefully after you posted your comments, and I
> cannot find any sentence or phrase where the author claims that
> "white artists could be hotter than black artists." Here are the
> pertinent quotes about back and white musicans.
>
> - By 1927, both Beiderbecke and Trumbauer were already well known to
> other white players of "hot" jazz. After "Singin' the Blues," they
> became known to black players as well. "Singin' the Blues," billed on
> its black-and-gold Okeh label as by "Frankie Trumbauer & His Orchestra
> with Bix and Lang," rolled into all corners of a segregated America.
>
> - Musicians all over the country learned to play those Beiderbecke and
> Trumbauer solos note for note. Fletcher Henderson, the celebrated
> African-American orchestra leader, had Caucasian arranger and
> Beiderbecke disciple Bill Challis score "Singin' the Blues" for his
> band with Tram's chorus written out for the whole reed section; and
> when Henderson recorded it, he asked his own cornet star Rex Stewart
> to emulate Bix's solo.
>
> - Modern-era clarinetist Kenny Davern told jazz scholar Dick Sudhalter
> of having once witnessed two black tenor-men, swing-to-bebop master
> Don Byas and the veteran Eddie Barefield (yes, the same man on whose
> door Lester Young once knocked), take out their horns during a chance
> encounter in the 1960s and spontaneously run through Trumbauer's 1927
> chorus from "Singin' the Blues." They told an astonished Davern,
> "Everybody knew that chorus."
>
> The author is not asserting that "white artists could be hotter than
> balck artists." He is simply pointing out the tremendous impact that
> Bix and Tram's recording of "Singin' the Blues" had in the jazz
> community, black and white.
>
> Albert
>
>
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking about it further. The writer of the article
> > misunderstood IMO the contribution of "Singing The Blues" to Jazz
> > history. In his attempt he tries to show that white artists could be
> > hotter than black artists. The story of mutual influence is quite
> > loose in this case since white bands were tending to become sweeter
> > and black were the hotter, it means that actually he sees single-sided
> > influence! I think that by that he does no service to white huge
> > contribution to Jazz music. First, bands like early Paul Whiteman was
> > turning from a sweet WW1 songs marching band into Jazz band. And
> > several artists like Eddie Lang with the Classical background doing
> > harmonic ideas that were removed from what black Jazz artists were
> > doing at the time. White soloist with Classical background that were
> > adding a sweeter sound and expanding the Jazz idiom. By insisting on
> > the hot terminology we can miss the most contributing. It will be hard
> > to convince me that Singing The Blues solos was hotter than solos by
> > Johnny Dodds, Louis Armstrong or Bubber Miley. But I am convinced that
> > Jazz evolution was changed in the 1930's because of mutual influence.
> > Hot bands became sweeter. Sweet bands were playing hotter Jazz. It
> > made a refinement for both sides. The hot bands couldn't swing forever
> > in that powerful fashion, they needed some sweeter inspiration. Sweet
> > bands that were becoming hot were the best at that. What was so
> > groundbreaking in the New Orleans Rhythm Kings, Trambauer's,
> > Whiteman's and all other hot sweet bands unless they were inspired to
> > become hotter? And without the mutual inspiration would Louis
> > Armstrong and the whole 1930's Swing band would become such romantic
> > unless they were inspired? The best is to be precise.
> > Someone who came from a Classic/Romantic music background is carrying
> > it and someone who was from the simple Blues background carry it. Both
> > sides have to get rid of the limitations of their schools. The rest is
> > a matter of taste. I prefer the rough sound of New Orleans and similar
> > bands of the Hot 1920's Jazz, but I also like the Hot Sweet bands.
> > Recently I am digging those bands. It is ridiculous that people think
> > it's mutual exclusive to like Red Nichols and Bix and from the other
> > hand Johnny Dodds and Bubber Miley. I think all mentioned artists were
> > interesting musicians that contributed each in their own way.
> > Tommersl
> >
> > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Many thanks, it seems logical though I think the writer is
> > > overestimating the importance of the recording in terms of "Hot
Jazz".
> > > Lester Young wasn't very much the hot player and if he was
influenced
> > > by this recordings it says it's not as "hot" as expected. Lester
Young
> > > had a sweet side in his playing that was even filmed in a movie.
> > > tommersl
> > >
> > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://physics.fortlewis.edu/Astronomy/astronomy%20today/CHAISSON/AT303/HTML/AT3\
0304.HTM
> > > >
> > > > As an object is heated the radiation it emits peaks at higher and
> > > > higher frequencies. When the metal is at room temperature (300
> K— the
> > > > K scale is C + 273) it emits only invisible infrared radiation. At
> > > > 1000 K, for instance, most of the emitted radiation is still
> infrared,
> > > > but now there is also a small amount of visible (dull red)
radiation
> > > > being emitted. As the temperature continues to rise, the peak
of the
> > > > metal's blackbody curve moves through the visible spectrum,
from red
> > > > (4000 K) through yellow. The metal eventually becomes white hot
> > > (7000 K).
> > > >
> > > > The above gives us the scientific definition of "white-hot." It is
> > > > also used in common parlance to refer to degrees of heat of
jazz. Of
> > > > course, we have the red hot jazz archive which should be
written as
> > > > red-hot jazz. There are degrees of heat for jazz. When heat is
> absent,
> > > > we call the music sweet. When the music swings and is jazzy,
we call
> > > > it hot. Grove on line defines hot jazz as "A term used to describe
> > > > jazz, particularly early jazz and swing, of an exciting and
> energetic
> > > > nature."
> > > >
> > > > I think the author is using the term white-hot in two ways.
> > > > Explicitely as an indication that "Singin' the Blues" is not a
sweet
> > > > piece of music, and as a play on words to refer to the fact that
> this
> > > > hot music is played by white musicians.
> > > >
> > > > Albert
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Haim" <alberthaim@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The weekend edition (June 2-3, 2007) of The Wall Street
Journal
> > > > > > carries this very well-written article about the Bix and Tram
> > > seminal
> > > > > > recording of "Singin' the Blues." Here is the article in its
> > > entirety.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Albert
> > > > > >
> > > > > > **********************
> > > > > > "MASTERPIECE"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > White-Hot Jazz Ballad
> > > > > > The haunting 'Singin' the Blues' changed American music
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By TOM NOLAN
> > > > > > June 2, 2007; Page P14
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Since the author seems to be careful and selective in his
writing,
> > > > > using double-quote precisely in place and etc, I wonder what the
> > > > > "White-Hot Jazz Ballad" title means. Is it "'White Hot' Jazz
> Ballad"
> > > > > or maybe "White:Hot Jazz Ballad". What is the definition of Hot
> > Jazz?
> > > > > Tommersl
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Jazz early history is IMO this way: people were brassing the Blues
music. Some of them with Classics music background like W.C. Handy and
some like Buddy Bolden from the Blues point of view. The Buddy Bolden
and New-Orleans Creoles and blacks created the the most significance
music of the Blues-Brassing wave, that was linked at some point with
the buzz-word Jazz. Their music was hot and different from any other
Blues-Brassed music. White musicians of Classics music school were
like W.C. Handy limited because of their background, although some of
them were talented enough to play good Jazz. But the core was
Blues-Brassed music of New Orleans that were spreading the music.
Later additional bands, like Duke Ellington that didn't have as
powerful improvising Swing-Engagement as the New Orleans
clarinet-cornet-trombone bands, but they had hot soloist of their own.
And Jelly Roll Morton who started the sections idea. The black Hot
bands weren't influenced by the white technically, but they played Hot
Blues Solo and Swing styles and they were influenced by white written
tunes since the beginning of Jazz and maybe even before like marching
songs. The sweet tunes of WW1-songs and pre-WW1 served as tunes to
improvise on. Then in the 1930's there was a change. The
sectioned-Jazz was winning, the Hot Jazz era came to its end. Although
the Hot Jazz era was the best and most creative, it is obvious that it
couldn't last forever and the reasons are that blacks were tired of
Blues and they wanted to play a sweeter music. Soloist wanted to play
sweeter music inspired by white technicals instead of the Blues
improvisations. Band leaders were inspired by the sections idea which
gave room for sweet soloists. The black bands of the 1930's were
inspired by their contemporary white bands. On the other hand, white
bands were getting hotter. Paul Whiteman was using hotter players than
his early, they reduced the natural sweetness of his musical ideas.
Other white bandleaders were also looking for hotter inspiration, and
at some point it was natural for mixed bands to be assembled. Singing
The Blues was what black bands of the 1930's wanted, sweeter tone that
is not necessarily swinging in the solo, but a separated swing section
(and here is the sections idea again) that makes the music groove.
White bands were inspired by the rhythm section of the 1930's black
bands. Together they created a music that is lesser in terms of
creativity IMO than the 1920's Hot bands but still fine music. So the
conclusion is that white artists were directly influencing the 1930's,
but they had little if any impact on the Hot solos of the 1920's, they
had no impact on the New Orleans Swing-Engagement, and generally the
Jazz music wasn't inspired by those with classical music background ,
be it whites or W.C. Handy, the only thing was the tunes that were
inspired sometimes by white songwriters but the basis Blues and the
technical development of players were removed from any alien to the
Blues ideas.
White Hot-Sweet bands like Tram's, N.O. Rhythm Kings, ODJB were
playing their Hot-Sweet music, which was almost as high quality as Hot
Bands, but their influence on blacks came mostly in the 1930's and beyond.
Tommersl
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@...> wrote:
>
> Albert, I was referring to the analogy the writer used of white-hot
> since that the white-hot is the hottest in this analogy.
> Tommersl
>
You've given me something to think about as I have overlooked some of the 1920s
white bands.At one time I had quite a collection of 1920s big bands on several
long since defunct labels.This is where your website comes in handy.I'm usually
there listening to the different
bands many of which I've never heard of.Question:can anyone give me more input
on Charles Pierce,the Chicago butcher who cut a great version of "China Boy"?
tommersl <tommersl@...> wrote:
Jazz early history is IMO this way: people were brassing the Blues
music. Some of them with Classics music background like W.C. Handy and
some like Buddy Bolden from the Blues point of view. The Buddy Bolden
and New-Orleans Creoles and blacks created the the most significance
music of the Blues-Brassing wave, that was linked at some point with
the buzz-word Jazz. Their music was hot and different from any other
Blues-Brassed music. White musicians of Classics music school were
like W.C. Handy limited because of their background, although some of
them were talented enough to play good Jazz. But the core was
Blues-Brassed music of New Orleans that were spreading the music.
Later additional bands, like Duke Ellington that didn't have as
powerful improvising Swing-Engagement as the New Orleans
clarinet-cornet-trombone bands, but they had hot soloist of their own.
And Jelly Roll Morton who started the sections idea. The black Hot
bands weren't influenced by the white technically, but they played Hot
Blues Solo and Swing styles and they were influenced by white written
tunes since the beginning of Jazz and maybe even before like marching
songs. The sweet tunes of WW1-songs and pre-WW1 served as tunes to
improvise on. Then in the 1930's there was a change. The
sectioned-Jazz was winning, the Hot Jazz era came to its end. Although
the Hot Jazz era was the best and most creative, it is obvious that it
couldn't last forever and the reasons are that blacks were tired of
Blues and they wanted to play a sweeter music. Soloist wanted to play
sweeter music inspired by white technicals instead of the Blues
improvisations. Band leaders were inspired by the sections idea which
gave room for sweet soloists. The black bands of the 1930's were
inspired by their contemporary white bands. On the other hand, white
bands were getting hotter. Paul Whiteman was using hotter players than
his early, they reduced the natural sweetness of his musical ideas.
Other white bandleaders were also looking for hotter inspiration, and
at some point it was natural for mixed bands to be assembled. Singing
The Blues was what black bands of the 1930's wanted, sweeter tone that
is not necessarily swinging in the solo, but a separated swing section
(and here is the sections idea again) that makes the music groove.
White bands were inspired by the rhythm section of the 1930's black
bands. Together they created a music that is lesser in terms of
creativity IMO than the 1920's Hot bands but still fine music. So the
conclusion is that white artists were directly influencing the 1930's,
but they had little if any impact on the Hot solos of the 1920's, they
had no impact on the New Orleans Swing-Engagement, and generally the
Jazz music wasn't inspired by those with classical music background ,
be it whites or W.C. Handy, the only thing was the tunes that were
inspired sometimes by white songwriters but the basis Blues and the
technical development of players were removed from any alien to the
Blues ideas.
White Hot-Sweet bands like Tram's, N.O. Rhythm Kings, ODJB were
playing their Hot-Sweet music, which was almost as high quality as Hot
Bands, but their influence on blacks came mostly in the 1930's and beyond.
Tommersl
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@...> wrote:
>
> Albert, I was referring to the analogy the writer used of white-hot
> since that the white-hot is the hottest in this analogy.
> Tommersl
>
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bix Beiderbecke recorded on October 1927 Goose pimples and Royal garden blues,i
want to know, it was Bix and his Gang or it was New Orleans Lucky Seven?.
---------------------------------
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According to "Jazz Directory" (Carey, McCarthy, and Venables) they called
themselves BIX BEIDERBECKE AND HIS GANG. However, the original Okeh 78 (OK 8544)
called them NEW ORLEANS LUCKY SEVEN on the label.
Cheers
Bob Smith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi,
Besides, the "New Orleans Lucky Seven" name seemed, I'm sure, more appropriate
for a race series issue.
Mike
Robert Smith <robert.smith@...> wrote:
According to "Jazz Directory" (Carey, McCarthy, and Venables) they
called themselves BIX BEIDERBECKE AND HIS GANG. However, the original Okeh 78
(OK 8544) called them NEW ORLEANS LUCKY SEVEN on the label.
Cheers
Bob Smith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm looking for a reliable label of old 1920's records of
chronological complete recorded works like Document Record is for
Blues. I want to buy recordings of the people of the 1920's. I recall
in the past a few suggestions were offered but I can't find it. I want
to cover (on cds) anything from Kid Ory, Fletcher Henderson, Bix,
Oliver, Morton, Dodds, and it is better if its on one label that has a
full catalog of the entire 1920's, or at least a partial but diverse
(not only the complete recordings of few selected artists but several
chronological recordings to pick from) catalog.
Tommersl
Taking a quick look at the redhotjazz website,they list no sessions under the
nom de disc "New Orleans Lucky Seven".I am going to have to order a new copy of
Bix Man and Legend as my copy was left back in Lometa,Texas.This is something
that can be readily solved.However after nearly fifty years of record
collecting,I run into some of the strangest things.Speaking of Bix,he was
supposed to have done a record date on Harmony in the middle to late '20s for
Sam Lanin.This came about when Sudhalter wrote in Bix Man and Legend,Lanin wrote
a check out to Bix.It is known that Bix did record with some of Lanin's men:one
person listed,a trumpeter named Hymie Farberman.Stranger still were the take
numbers of this particular session led discographers to believe that at least
five different takes existed.When these so called takes were listened to,the
second and fifth "takes" were the same.I've forgotten the name of the tunes
cut.Harmony,and its Velvet Tone label,ultimately wound up
being owned by what would become known as Columbia Records;I am speaking of the
1939 sale of the American Record Corporation to CBS.CBS ended up owning the
masters to several different record labels that went under by 1933,OKeh by way
of its ownership by the old Columbia label that went under in 1935.I am going
back to the redhotjazz website to check out another Bix recording name.I'll let
you know what I find out as "Bix and his Gang" seems to be the logical choice as
there is nothing under the heading of "New Orleans Lucky Seven".
domingo warner <domingowarner@...> wrote: Bix Beiderbecke
recorded on October 1927 Goose pimples and Royal garden blues,i want to know, it
was Bix and his Gang or it was New Orleans Lucky Seven?.
---------------------------------
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Taking a quick look at the redhotjazz website,they list no sessions under the
nom de disc "New Orleans Lucky Seven".I am going to have to order a new copy of
Bix Man and Legend as my copy was left back in Lometa,Texas.This is something
that can be readily solved.However after nearly fifty years of record
collecting,I run into some of the strangest things.Speaking of Bix,he was
supposed to have done a record date on Harmony in the middle to late '20s for
Sam Lanin.This came about when Sudhalter wrote in Bix Man and Legend,Lanin wrote
a check out to Bix.It is known that Bix did record with some of Lanin's men:one
person listed,a trumpeter named Hymie Farberman.Stranger still were the take
numbers of this particular session led discographers to believe that at least
five different takes existed.When these so called takes were listened to,the
second and fifth "takes" were the same.I've forgotten the name of the tunes
cut.Harmony,and its Velvet Tone label,ultimately wound up
being owned by what would become known as Columbia Records;I am speaking of the
1939 sale of the American Record Corporation to CBS.CBS ended up owning the
masters to several different record labels that went under by 1933,OKeh by way
of its ownership by the old Columbia label that went under in 1935.I am going
back to the redhotjazz website to check out another Bix recording name.I'll let
you know what I find out as "Bix and his Gang" seems to be the logical choice as
there is nothing under the heading of "New Orleans Lucky Seven".
domingo warner <domingowarner@...> wrote: Bix Beiderbecke
recorded on October 1927 Goose pimples and Royal garden blues,i want to know, it
was Bix and his Gang or it was New Orleans Lucky Seven?.
---------------------------------
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The label with the greatest similarity to Document in the jazz domain would be
"Chronological Classics", which many people collect(ed) for the uniform
appearance and approach. They cover all of the major names of the 20s, including
one issued version of each title recorded for each label. Be warned however,
that the sound quality varies vastly from one track to the next, since
Chronological Classics are very indiscriminate in their choice of sources.
A case in point are the early Fletcher Henderson recordings which use old LPs -
in some cases with reverb added at a time when this was thought fashionable - or
unprocessed copies of cassettes. If you have LPs or cassettes you can just as
well do the transfer work yourself to home-burned CDs - these will have the same
kind of audio quality. The only reason to buy CCs in my opinion is to fill gaps
in the repertoire of other, better companies like Timeless, Retrieval, Frog or
Jazz Oracle. The classics by most of the musicians you mention have been covered
in great sound by labels other than CC, as have many other recordings from the
20s with too small markets for CC. Since they generally take time to produce
their CDs and do not simply reissue what is available for the moment, there are
a couple of significant gaps in the discography - e.g. the Henderson Victors or
the Nichols Five Pennies (due, I believe, for a reissue on Mosaic this summer).
Chronological Classics have recently been difficult to obtain due to
distribution problems, so if you look for them on Amazon, they can only be had
at ridiculously high prices - far out of proportion to their true worth.
For the real classics, it would be possible to assemble a list of "definitive"
reissues:
- Ory only made 6 titles under his own name in the 20s and these are scheduled
for a Jazz Oracle West Coast CD;
- Bix would be the "Bix Restored" series on Origin, or if you don't want the
Whitemans, the set on Mosaic and possibly the Bix/Goldkette CD on Retrieval;
- Oliver would be the Retrieval or Archeophone/Off the Record set for the Creole
JB, a pair of Frog CDs for the Brunswicks and Vocalions, another pair of Frog
CDs or a JSP double (if still available) for the Victors,
- Morton would be the JSP Box for the 20s Red Hot Peppers, a Retrieval CD for
the piano solos and currently 2 French Masters of Jazz CDs for the early Band
sides (unfortunatley deleted, but scheduled for Jazz Oracle), the General sides
should still be available on Commodore. The late Victors are difficult, so you
might have to resort to a Classics or transfer your old LPs;
- Henderson is diffcult for the 20s sides - Timeless has the Dixie Stompers and
the early Brunswick/Vocalions, all the sides with Armstrong should still be
around on a 3 CD box from Forte, but otherwise Chronological Classics are the
easiest option.
- Dodds' Paramount recordings are on a pair of Black Swan CDs, there are also
issues on Frog and Timeless for most of the remainder. The Bootblacks/Wanderers
are probably best in a JSP box, most of the rest of which is unfortunately
pirated from other quality labels.
Michael Rader
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: 15.06.07 23:17:46
> An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [RedHotJazz] Reliable label for 1920's Jazz
>
>
>
>
> I'm looking for a reliable label of old 1920's records of
> chronological complete recorded works like Document Record is for
> Blues. I want to buy recordings of the people of the 1920's. I recall
> in the past a few suggestions were offered but I can't find it. I want
> to cover (on cds) anything from Kid Ory, Fletcher Henderson, Bix,
> Oliver, Morton, Dodds, and it is better if its on one label that has a
> full catalog of the entire 1920's, or at least a partial but diverse
> (not only the complete recordings of few selected artists but several
> chronological recordings to pick from) catalog.
> Tommersl
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
This band recorded in the early 1920s with Lucille Hegamin and Ethel Waters.
Clarence Harris (as) sometimes was credited as leader. Albury may be the
unknown clarinet (or maybe just a leader).
The likely candidates in New York at that time were Samuel Albury (born
Louisiana about 1888) and Granville Albury (born British West Indies about
1891). However their occupations are not helpful.
The variant spelling Aldbury leads nowhere.
Does anyone have further info? Thanks.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've just joined RHJ today, in order to join in discussions and
discover more classic hot jazz.
In the jazz field my interests are strong but narrow: Ken Colyer, the
Crane River Jazz Band, King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band (perfection), the
Hot Fives and Sevens, the New Orleans Rhythm Kings, the Halfway House
Orchestra, and the Boll Weevil Jass Band pretty much cover it for me.
I also enjoy and perform jug band music, and listen to Baroque and
classical guitar music.
Looking forward to unearthing more nuggets in the King Oliver mould.
Welcome, Mark, and thanks for your list of strong interests. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but I think I was at a concert with the Crane River Jazz Band in the
1950's. I remember the band I heard then (whoever they were) as a tight-knit and
well-balanced unit.
Your tastes seem to run fairly parallell to mine, although Jelly Roll Morton's
Red Hot Peppers feature high on my list. I'm afraid the "Halfway House
Orchestra" has never been a favourite of mine, they sound a bit too messy for my
taste, and I've never heard the "Boll Weevil Jass Band". I'm also a keen fan of
the small groups - Lovie Austin, Jimmy Blythe, Jimmy Bertrand just to name a
few.
Regards,
Bob Smith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Always good to know some people still remember when the Cranes were flying.
Along with the Christie Brothers' Stompers, they caused a sensation when the
first 78s arrived down here (Melbourne) in the '50s.
Ernst Borneman once opined that his anthropological reasoning led him to believe
the Cranes were the closest we'd ever get to the sound of he Bolden band.
We know, with hindsight, that they probably weren't, but we gladly took it on
board in those heady, youthful days.
Somewhere, I've still got a 78 "dub' that John R.T. sent me of the Cranes,
complete with annotation on the label in John's beloved green ink. "A Miner's
Dream of Home" I think was one of the titles.
Welcome aboard, Mark - and cheers to all us Crane lovers!
Tony Standish
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ian Christie (Humphrey Lyttelton, Christie Brothers Stompers, and now with his
own quartet) was interviewed by me for our weekly jazz programme on local radio
here in Northern Norway. The interview took place on Dec. 12, 2006, and was sent
Dec. 29, 2006 on both radio and live on the Internet.
If anyone is interested I can send it as an mp3. The interview lasted just over
15 mins. and the mp3 is just over 14MB.
Cheers
Bob Smith
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I haven't been able to find that Forte set, all that is available is a Timeless
CD, which an Amazon reviewer claims is edited.
I just picked up the Quadromania Fletcher Henderson set, which seems to have
all of his 1927 post Armstrong sides on disc 1, but it jumps on disc 2 to 1931,
disc 3 has late 1932 to '34, and disc 4 is almost all 1936.
I'm a little out of the loop... who's responsible for these Quadromania sets,
and why are they so cheap?
Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
- Henderson is diffcult for the 20s sides - Timeless has the Dixie Stompers
and the early Brunswick/Vocalions, all the sides with Armstrong should still be
around on a 3 CD box from Forte, but otherwise Chronological Classics are the
easiest option.
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Timeless Henderson & Armstrong has a handful of complete performances, but
the rest are excerpts. Amazon has the other two Timeless Henderson CDs (search
as "Fletcher Henderson Timeless" to limit the results) the two on Hep, and a
good sounding one (Tidal Wave) of 1931 and '34 material on Decca. I think the
Naxos "Blue Rhythm" has better transfers than the Classics covering some of the
same material. There's some great 1936-37 Henderson on Mosaic's new Chu Berry
set. And it's worth trying to track down the JSP "Fletcher Henderson
1925-1929." If I can add a self-serving note, please start any "Amazon"
purchases at the link below. It costs you nothing more, and supports WFUV,
which keeps me and my show on the air.
Rich
Rich Conaty
"The Big Broadcast"
Sunday 8-Midnight
90.7 FM & WFUV.org
www.bigbroadcast.com
http://www.myspace.com/richconaty
Please support "The Big Broadcast" with a WFUV Membership:
https://wfuv.org/contribute/
Shop Amazon and support WFUV! Be sure to use the link at www.wfuv.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Five
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Reliable label for 1920's Jazz
I haven't been able to find that Forte set, all that is available is a
Timeless CD, which an Amazon reviewer claims is edited.
I just picked up the Quadromania Fletcher Henderson set, which seems to have
all of his 1927 post Armstrong sides on disc 1, but it jumps on disc 2 to 1931,
disc 3 has late 1932 to '34, and disc 4 is almost all 1936.
I'm a little out of the loop... who's responsible for these Quadromania sets,
and why are they so cheap?
Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
- Henderson is diffcult for the 20s sides - Timeless has the Dixie Stompers
and the early Brunswick/Vocalions, all the sides with Armstrong should still be
around on a 3 CD box from Forte, but otherwise Chronological Classics are the
easiest option.
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/853 - Release Date: 6/18/2007 3:02
PM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "tommersl" <tommersl@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a reliable label of old 1920's records of
> chronological complete recorded works like Document Record is for
> Blues. I want to buy recordings of the people of the 1920's. I recall
> in the past a few suggestions were offered but I can't find it. I want
> to cover (on cds) anything from Kid Ory, Fletcher Henderson, Bix,
> Oliver, Morton, Dodds, and it is better if its on one label that has a
> full catalog of the entire 1920's, or at least a partial but diverse
> (not only the complete recordings of few selected artists but several
> chronological recordings to pick from) catalog.
> Tommersl
>
Let me recommend anyone in my situation, anyone seeking for reliable
labels of hot jazz, to contact Sheik for his in-depth database files.
There's a lot of information there from different view (albums, tunes,
keys).
Thank you Sheik
Tommersl
Quadromania is a 4CD series reissued by Membran of Germany which is responsible
for many cheap reissues under many names, sometimes recycling their own
material. They probably use any source available to them, such as other CDs,
LPs, tapes. They are usually marked 24 bit or something else suggesting high-end
technology, but I would personally not buy anything of theirs by artists of real
interest.
Michael Rader
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: 19.06.07 16:16:13
> An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [RedHotJazz] Reliable label for 1920's Jazz
>
>
>
>
> I haven't been able to find that Forte set, all that is available is a
Timeless CD, which an Amazon reviewer claims is edited.
>
> I just picked up the Quadromania Fletcher Henderson set, which seems to have
all of his 1927 post Armstrong sides on disc 1, but it jumps on disc 2 to 1931,
disc 3 has late 1932 to '34, and disc 4 is almost all 1936.
>
> I'm a little out of the loop... who's responsible for these Quadromania sets,
and why are they so cheap?
>
> Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
> - Henderson is diffcult for the 20s sides - Timeless has the Dixie Stompers
and the early Brunswick/Vocalions, all the sides with Armstrong should still be
around on a 3 CD box from Forte, but otherwise Chronological Classics are the
easiest option.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________________
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Mehr Infos unter http://produkte.web.de/club/?mc=021131
Quadromania is a label I've never heard of until I started checking out the CDs
on ebay some
three years ago.I know that Joker does alot of what we would call
bootlegging.I had the Joker boxed set of Bix some twenty two years ago.I gave
thirty dollars plus shipping and
handling charges back in 1983.I have picked up some other albums(33s)in the
course of time on that label.One,a Basie album of some 1937 which were issued on
an album I bought back in 1975 on the ALAMAC label the other a big band
anthology.ALAMAC had released a large batch of stuff such as the 1940 Coleman
Hawkins big band(which I should have gotten
when I first saw it)and an allbum of the 1945 BIlly Eckstine band(live
broadcast from the Plantation Ballroom somewhere in southern California)which I
did buy.ALAMAC was owned by a company called American Themes and Tapes which was
located in New York City.I did find one cassette from Joker that was also an
anthology of different kinds of jazz.I also had one ALAMAC cassette tape of
assorted boogie woogie.That one is long gone:I wore the
tape out listening to pianist Bob Zurke's recording of "Cow Cow Blues".Those
guys at Joker
released everything imaginationable.I have others as well.The quality varied
from one tape or one LP to another.The 1937 Basie material has showed up in
recent years on cassette.It's the exactly like the ALAMAC LP album down to the
misidentified titles.Discographies,as you know,can be unreliable.This is where I
found that the musicians themselves could and did clear up many personnel
changes.Speaking of Bix,I have that 1960 vintage RCA album
called "The Third Chair" that has a caricature of Bix on the cover.That album
was famous
for the inclusion of "I Didn't Know".The liner notes me the impression no one
know of that one Victor master.However,Jean Goldkette was still alive in
1960.Both Dorseys could have
cleared the matter up years before as both were on the session.There are those
critics who seemed so have taken liberties regarding the history of jazz Joe
Venuti a case in point.I believe that the group that Bix led when "Goose
Pimples" was recorded for OKeh was "Bix
and his Gang".Again,I will have to look at redhotjazz's web page.
Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
Quadromania is a 4CD series reissued by Membran of Germany which is
responsible for many cheap reissues under many names, sometimes recycling their
own material. They probably use any source available to them, such as other CDs,
LPs, tapes. They are usually marked 24 bit or something else suggesting high-end
technology, but I would personally not buy anything of theirs by artists of real
interest.
Michael Rader
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Gesendet: 19.06.07 16:16:13
> An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [RedHotJazz] Reliable label for 1920's Jazz
>
>
>
>
> I haven't been able to find that Forte set, all that is available is a
Timeless CD, which an Amazon reviewer claims is edited.
>
> I just picked up the Quadromania Fletcher Henderson set, which seems to have
all of his 1927 post Armstrong sides on disc 1, but it jumps on disc 2 to 1931,
disc 3 has late 1932 to '34, and disc 4 is almost all 1936.
>
> I'm a little out of the loop... who's responsible for these Quadromania sets,
and why are they so cheap?
>
> Michael Rader wrote:
> - Henderson is diffcult for the 20s sides - Timeless has the Dixie Stompers
and the early Brunswick/Vocalions, all the sides with Armstrong should still be
around on a 3 CD box from Forte, but otherwise Chronological Classics are the
easiest option.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________________
Erweitern Sie FreeMail zu einem noch leistungsstärkeren E-Mail-Postfach!
Mehr Infos unter http://produkte.web.de/club/?mc=021131
Yahoo! Groups Links
---------------------------------
Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i want to know who played the drums on january 10 ,1929,when Bee Palmer sang
with the Paul Whiteman Orchestra "sINGIN THE BLUES"
---------------------------------
Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello Dan,
I believe only Tommy Dorsey was present in the Goldkette session of
Nov 24, 1924 when the band recorded "I Didn't Know." Jimmy Dorsey had
been with Goldkette most of 1924, but had left before the Nov 24, 1924
session to join the California Ramblers.
Albert
--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Dan Van Landingham
<danvanlandingham@...> wrote:
>
> Quadromania is a label I've never heard of until I started checking
out the CDs on ebay some
> three years ago.I know that Joker does alot of what we would call
bootlegging.I had the Joker boxed set of Bix some twenty two years
ago.I gave thirty dollars plus shipping and
> handling charges back in 1983.I have picked up some other
albums(33s)in the course of time on that label.One,a Basie album of
some 1937 which were issued on an album I bought back in 1975 on the
ALAMAC label the other a big band anthology.ALAMAC had released a
large batch of stuff such as the 1940 Coleman Hawkins big band(which I
should have gotten
> when I first saw it)and an allbum of the 1945 BIlly Eckstine
band(live broadcast from the Plantation Ballroom somewhere in southern
California)which I did buy.ALAMAC was owned by a company called
American Themes and Tapes which was located in New York City.I did
find one cassette from Joker that was also an anthology of different
kinds of jazz.I also had one ALAMAC cassette tape of assorted boogie
woogie.That one is long gone:I wore the
> tape out listening to pianist Bob Zurke's recording of "Cow Cow
Blues".Those guys at Joker
> released everything imaginationable.I have others as well.The
quality varied from one tape or one LP to another.The 1937 Basie
material has showed up in recent years on cassette.It's the exactly
like the ALAMAC LP album down to the misidentified
titles.Discographies,as you know,can be unreliable.This is where I
found that the musicians themselves could and did clear up many
personnel changes.Speaking of Bix,I have that 1960 vintage RCA album
> called "The Third Chair" that has a caricature of Bix on the
cover.That album was famous
> for the inclusion of "I Didn't Know".The liner notes me the
impression no one know of that one Victor master.However,Jean
Goldkette was still alive in 1960.Both Dorseys could have
> cleared the matter up years before as both were on the
session.There are those critics who seemed so have taken liberties
regarding the history of jazz Joe Venuti a case in point.I believe
that the group that Bix led when "Goose Pimples" was recorded for OKeh
was "Bix
> and his Gang".Again,I will have to look at redhotjazz's web page.
>
> Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
> Quadromania is a 4CD series reissued by Membran of Germany which
is responsible for many cheap reissues under many names, sometimes
recycling their own material. They probably use any source available
to them, such as other CDs, LPs, tapes. They are usually marked 24 bit
or something else suggesting high-end technology, but I would
personally not buy anything of theirs by artists of real interest.
>
> Michael Rader
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> > Gesendet: 19.06.07 16:16:13
> > An: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: Re: [RedHotJazz] Reliable label for 1920's Jazz
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I haven't been able to find that Forte set, all that is available
is a Timeless CD, which an Amazon reviewer claims is edited.
> >
> > I just picked up the Quadromania Fletcher Henderson set, which
seems to have all of his 1927 post Armstrong sides on disc 1, but it
jumps on disc 2 to 1931, disc 3 has late 1932 to '34, and disc 4 is
almost all 1936.
> >
> > I'm a little out of the loop... who's responsible for these
Quadromania sets, and why are they so cheap?
> >
> > Michael Rader wrote:
> > - Henderson is diffcult for the 20s sides - Timeless has the Dixie
Stompers and the early Brunswick/Vocalions, all the sides with
Armstrong should still be around on a 3 CD box from Forte, but
otherwise Chronological Classics are the easiest option.
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________________
> Erweitern Sie FreeMail zu einem noch leistungsstärkeren
E-Mail-Postfach!
> Mehr Infos unter http://produkte.web.de/club/?mc=021131
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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