Hi Yves Francois, thanks for reply, yes, that�s exactly what I hear. There
certainly is a banjo on "What Do You Know", but I am not so certain on "Shut
Your Mouth".  I came to discover the bjo by thinking about the very compact
rhythm I heard, which simply seemed to be too thick for a pno alone. The pianist
certainly is a stride man with a strong left hand, if Waller, I do not know.
(Wouldn�t Waller have claimed to have a solo?). And I would like to follow John
R.T.�s suggestion that this is "Big" Charlie Thomas. Thomas has a very light ,
somewhat airy approach to Armstrong�s style, which can be found here, although
only riffing. Nice to get a confirmation. Thanks!  K-B
By the way, although these tunes are not sooo much Jazz, I simply love them
because of their charme!

--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, yves francois <aprestitine@...> wrote:
>
> K.B. et Michel
> Thanks Michael - now I have to buy the Waller set - 2 takes of those�
recordings ! The trumpet is great (Big Charlie or not, not quite enough evidence
but I have nothing against it being he), even if it only riffs, now to what you
asked - I have the BCT Timeless so i have only one take of each - there is
defiantly a banjo on "What Do You Know About That" - and seems to be (though I
am not so certain, the banjo, if he is there, is off mike - or should I say off
recording "horn"? - as is the trumpeter behind the vocal duet) on "Shut Your
Mouth" - and you get a REAL feel of Harlem on these duets!! Re: if it is Fats or
not, I'll listen to it a few more times
> hope this helps
> Yves Francois
>

K.B. et Michel
Thanks Michael - now I have to buy the Waller set - 2 takes of those� recordings
! The trumpet is great (Big Charlie or not, not quite enough evidence but I have
nothing against it being he), even if it only riffs, now to what you asked - I
have the BCT Timeless so i have only one take of each - there is defiantly a
banjo on "What Do You Know About That" - and seems to be (though I am not so
certain, the banjo, if he is there, is off mike - or should I say off recording
"horn"? - as is the trumpeter behind the vocal duet) on "Shut Your Mouth" - and
you get a REAL feel of Harlem on these duets!! Re: if it is Fats or not, I'll
listen to it a few more times
hope this helps
Yves Francois

This information is identical to that contained in Laurie Wright's "Fats in
Fact". Lord's Clarence Williams book has a question mark against Waller's name,
so????

Michael Rader

--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Agustin Perez Gasco <ekebbbapg@...> wrote:
>
> In his "Fats Waller - Ultimate Discography", Stephen Taylor lists:
>
> c. January 1927 Joe Sims and Clarence Williams -  Paramount
> New York City, New York.
>
> Joe Sims and Clarence Williams, vocal duet; (?) Louis Metcalf, c; Fats Waller,
p.

Hello

I'm looking for the lyrics of the verse of "Get Happy " if anybody can have
them, i'll be very happy to get them !

Many thanks in advance

Best Regards

Alexandre Litwak

Since it was included in the "Big Charlie" Thomas CD, John R.T. Davies offers a
different identification for the trumpeter. Any opinions?

Also, is it Waller or not as Hans Eekhoff suggests in his posting.

But above all: Do people owing these sides, which are readily available on CD,
actually *hear* the banjo K-B Rau  suggests as also being present.

Michael Rader
> In his "Fats Waller - Ultimate Discography", Stephen Taylor lists:
>
> c. January 1927 Joe Sims and Clarence Williams - Paramount
> New York City, New York.
>
> Joe Sims and Clarence Williams, vocal duet; (?) Louis Metcalf, c;
> Fats Waller, p.
>
> 2799-1 What Do You Know About That
> 78: Pm 12435-B

> 2799-2 What Do You Know About That
> Unissued, recording exists.
> 2799 take descriptions. Patter following piano interlude:
> -1: “Now you acting like you from the land of red beans and rice”
> -2: “Now you acting like you from down home”
>
> 2800-1 Shut Your Mouth
> Unissued, recording exists.
>
> 2800-2 Shut Your Mouth
> 78: Pm 12435-A
> 10″: Audubon AAM
> 12″: Biograph 6370.908 = Biograph BLP12006, Byg 33, Byg 529.088,
> Joker SM3124
> CD: Classics 718, Timeless CBC1-030JAZZ
> 2800 take descriptions. Beginning of third vocal sequence:
> -1: “There was some cheating done last night. Shut your mouth”
> -2: “There was some cheating done in the store last night. Who was
> it? Shut your mouth”

______________________________________________________
GRATIS f�r alle WEB.DE-Nutzer: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de

Which QRS recordings?
 
------------------------------------------------
Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: Dan Van Landingham <danvanlandingham@...>
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 4:28:01 AM
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams

 
What can you tell me abut four sides Waller cut for QRS?

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Agustin Perez Gasco <ekebbbapg@yahoo. es> wrote:

From: Agustin Perez Gasco <ekebbbapg@yahoo. es>
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 1:56 AM

 

In his "Fats Waller - Ultimate Discography ", Stephen Taylor lists:

c. January 1927 Joe Sims and Clarence Williams -  Paramount
New York City, New York.

Joe Sims and Clarence Williams, vocal duet; (?) Louis Metcalf, c; Fats Waller,
p.

2799-1 What Do You Know About That
78: Pm 12435-B
10″: Audubon AAM
12″: Biograph 6370.908 = Biograph BLP12006, Byg 33, Byg 529.088, Joker SM3124
CD: Classics 718, Timeless CBC1-030JAZZ

2799-2 What Do You Know About That
Unissued, recording exists.
2799 take descriptions. Patter following piano interlude:
-1: “Now you acting like you from the land of red beans and rice”
-2: “Now you acting like you from down home”

2800-1 Shut Your Mouth
Unissued, recording exists.

2800-2 Shut Your Mouth
78: Pm 12435-A
10″: Audubon AAM
12″: Biograph 6370.908 = Biograph BLP12006, Byg 33, Byg 529.088, Joker SM3124
CD: Classics 718, Timeless CBC1-030JAZZ
2800 take descriptions. Beginning of third vocal sequence:
-1: “There was some cheating done last night. Shut your mouth”
-2: “There was some cheating done in the store last night. Who was it? Shut
your mouth”
 

Best regards,
Agustín Pérez
Madrid
------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzb eforetrane. blogspot. com/

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Wouter Maréchal <wouter.marechal@ skynet.be>
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 12:59:00 AM
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams

 
I think it is about:

Shut Your Mouth (Joe Simms) 1-1927 New York, New York Paramount 12435
What Do You Know About That? (Clarence Williams) 1-1927 New York, New York
Paramount 12435

Both not highlighted in the RHJA.
Banjo is not listed by Rust.

cheers
Wouter M.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What can you tell me abut four sides Waller cut for QRS?

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Agustin Perez Gasco <ekebbbapg@...> wrote:


From: Agustin Perez Gasco <ekebbbapg@...>
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 1:56 AM


 



In his "Fats Waller - Ultimate Discography ", Stephen Taylor lists:

c. January 1927 Joe Sims and Clarence Williams -  Paramount
New York City, New York.

Joe Sims and Clarence Williams, vocal duet; (?) Louis Metcalf, c; Fats Waller,
p.

2799-1 What Do You Know About That
78: Pm 12435-B
10″: Audubon AAM
12″: Biograph 6370.908 = Biograph BLP12006, Byg 33, Byg 529.088, Joker SM3124
CD: Classics 718, Timeless CBC1-030JAZZ

2799-2 What Do You Know About That
Unissued, recording exists.
2799 take descriptions. Patter following piano interlude:
-1: “Now you acting like you from the land of red beans and rice”
-2: “Now you acting like you from down home”

2800-1 Shut Your Mouth
Unissued, recording exists.

2800-2 Shut Your Mouth
78: Pm 12435-A
10″: Audubon AAM
12″: Biograph 6370.908 = Biograph BLP12006, Byg 33, Byg 529.088, Joker SM3124
CD: Classics 718, Timeless CBC1-030JAZZ
2800 take descriptions. Beginning of third vocal sequence:
-1: “There was some cheating done last night. Shut your mouth”
-2: “There was some cheating done in the store last night. Who was it? Shut
your mouth”
 

Best regards,
Agustín Pérez
Madrid
------------ --------- --------- --------- ---------
Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzb eforetrane. blogspot. com/

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Wouter Maréchal <wouter.marechal@ skynet.be>
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 12:59:00 AM
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams

 
I think it is about:

Shut Your Mouth (Joe Simms) 1-1927 New York, New York Paramount 12435
What Do You Know About That? (Clarence Williams) 1-1927 New York, New York
Paramount 12435

Both not highlighted in the RHJA.
Banjo is not listed by Rust.

cheers
Wouter M.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all;

Glad I found this group.  I'm sure I'll learn a lot, and I've always been
interested in music from 1895 - 1930 or so.

I've just posted a file of my piano playing if anyone is interested.  WW1 tune,
and I hope you like it.  Recorded in 2004 on my Roland.

John

Max Vreede had the original issue as well as a Paramount test with different
takes of these on each side. At the time (late 60's) the general consensus was
Fats on piano and Louis Metcalfe trumpet.
They did those numbers in a stage show with Fats; hence the suggestion that he
was on these sides.
However, Max didn't think it was Fats - and I agree; it doesn't really sound
like him. I don't know enough of Metcalfe's playing to venture an opinion.
Hans Eekhoff


--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
>
> The two titles in question are "What Do You Know About That?" and "Shut Your
Mouth", recorded for Paramount around January 1927. They have been reissued
twice recently: one take of each title is on the "Big Charlie THomas" CD on
Timeless CBC-1-030 and two takes of each on the JSP Complete Fats Waller set Box
1.
>
> Although there is a great deal of surface noise on the records, I do indeed
hear a banjo quite distincly along with the piano, although he neither solos nor
plays noticable embellishments.
>
> Michael Rader
>
> In reply to Moredchai Litzman and also Hans Eekhoff:
>
>
> > Could you provide the name of the tune and under which name it was
> > recorded (and perhaps a link if it is not on the RHJA ?
> ____________________________
> > From: kbrau44 <kbrau44@...>
>
> > Subject: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams
> > Let�s start with: Vocal duet Cl.
> > Williams - Joe Sims of Jan. 1927: I hear a bjo together with cnt and
> > pno. What do you hear and think? Please, listen and let me know! K-B
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Preisknaller: WEB.DE DSL Flatrate f�r nur 16,99 Euro/mtl.!
> http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
>

In his "Fats Waller - Ultimate Discography", Stephen Taylor lists:

c. January 1927 Joe Sims and Clarence Williams -  Paramount
New York City, New York.

Joe Sims and Clarence Williams, vocal duet; (?) Louis Metcalf, c; Fats Waller,
p.

2799-1 What Do You Know About That
78: Pm 12435-B
10″: Audubon AAM
12″: Biograph 6370.908 = Biograph BLP12006, Byg 33, Byg 529.088, Joker SM3124
CD: Classics 718, Timeless CBC1-030JAZZ

2799-2 What Do You Know About That
Unissued, recording exists.
2799 take descriptions. Patter following piano interlude:
-1: “Now you acting like you from the land of red beans and rice”
-2: “Now you acting like you from down home”

2800-1 Shut Your Mouth
Unissued, recording exists.

2800-2 Shut Your Mouth
78: Pm 12435-A
10″: Audubon AAM
12″: Biograph 6370.908 = Biograph BLP12006, Byg 33, Byg 529.088, Joker SM3124
CD: Classics 718, Timeless CBC1-030JAZZ
2800 take descriptions. Beginning of third vocal sequence:
-1: “There was some cheating done last night. Shut your mouth”
-2: “There was some cheating done in the store last night. Who was it? Shut
your mouth”
 


Best regards,
Agustín Pérez
Madrid
------------------------------------------------
Mule Walk & Jazz Talk:  http://thereisjazzbeforetrane.blogspot.com/




________________________________
From: Wouter Maréchal <wouter.marechal@...>
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 12:59:00 AM
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams

 
I think it is about:

Shut Your Mouth (Joe Simms) 1-1927 New York, New York Paramount 12435
What Do You Know About That? (Clarence Williams) 1-1927 New York, New York
Paramount 12435

Both not highlighted in the RHJA.
Banjo is not listed by Rust.

cheers
Wouter M.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi K-B:

I haven't seen a copy of Names and Numbers, would very much like to read the
article.  The Past Jazz Masters are important and overlooked:  I consider
"Original Charleston Strut" as good as any jazz recording up to that time (circa
February 1923), tenor break notwithstanding...

As to personnel, the rich tenor lead towards the end of "Lonesome Journey Blues"
sounds reminiscent of Hawkins:  this evolving studio group seems to have
included other Mamie Smith's Jazz Hounds as well.  Fletcher Henderson (with
Hawkins) would cover "Lonesome Journey Blues" and "The Bull Blues" in December
1923, so there are circumstantial links before and after.

"When The Jazz Band Starts To Play" contains a strong open horn solo by the
second cornetist, consistent with the open solo on Miley's "Those Blues".  
Early open Miley is something a problem, from lack of confirmed examples
(identifying him on the 1921-22 Mamie Smiths also difficult for this reason). 
His tone does seem evident, and I hear distinct similarities to riffs and
phrasing of his muted work with the Kansas City Five.

On "Just Blues, That's All" (also covered by Henderson), a "Mr. Smith" is
exhorted during the piano solo.  Apparently one Charles Smith played piano the
same month with Perry Bradford's Jazz Phools, on Paramount 12041 (Garvin Bushell
and Bradford would each later recall Morris in print).  It has marked Smith's
only appearance in discography, which suggests recollection by a musician
(Bradford?).  However, the Jazz Phools pianist provides nearly inaudible
rhythmic support only, making it difficult to gauge potential involvement with
the Past Jazz Masters.

Irvis would play club engagements with Willie "The Lion" Smith in late 1923; the
latter denied involvement with these sides, also reportedly he was not in New
York at the time.

Fascinating subjects (to me anyway)...

John

--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "kbrau44" <kbrau44@...> wrote:
>
> Hi John, I would also wish somebody to find alternate takes of Lazy Drag,
Charleston Stampede and Georgia, but, until then, let�s be happy to have The
Mess -2.
> But, as you seem to be interested in Thomas Morris: you might also be
interested in an article I have published in Names & Numbers #49 (Dutch
discographical magazine) on the Th. Morris� Past Jazz Masters with some
unexpected finds (tpt players and pianist and others)   K-B

I think it is about:

Shut Your Mouth (Joe Simms) 1-1927 New York, New York Paramount 12435
What Do You Know About That? (Clarence Williams) 1-1927 New York, New York
Paramount 12435

Both not highlighted  in the RHJA.
Banjo is not listed  by Rust.

cheers
Wouter M.

The two titles in question are "What Do You Know About That?" and "Shut Your
Mouth", recorded for Paramount around January 1927. They have been reissued
twice recently: one take of each title is on the "Big Charlie THomas" CD on
Timeless CBC-1-030 and two takes of each on the JSP Complete Fats Waller set Box
1.

Although there is a great deal of surface noise on the records, I do indeed hear
a banjo quite distincly along with the piano, although he neither solos nor
plays noticable embellishments.

Michael Rader

In reply to Moredchai Litzman and also Hans Eekhoff:


> Could you provide the name of the tune and under which name it was
> recorded (and perhaps a link if it is not on the RHJA ?
____________________________
> From: kbrau44 <kbrau44@...>

> Subject: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams
> Let�s start with: Vocal duet Cl.
> Williams - Joe Sims of Jan. 1927: I hear a bjo together with cnt and
> pno. What do you hear and think? Please, listen and let me know! K-B



___________________________________________________________
Preisknaller: WEB.DE DSL Flatrate f�r nur 16,99 Euro/mtl.!
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/

Could you provide titles?


--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "kbrau44" <kbrau44@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,  I have a lot of suggestions for re-examine established (or
semi-established) Clarence Williams personnels, which I would like to offer in
these pages here. Let�s start with: Vocal duet Cl. Williams - Joe Sims of Jan.
1927: I hear a bjo together with cnt and pno. What do you hear and think? 
Please, listen and let me know!  K-B
>

Could you provide the name of the tune and under which name it was recorded (and
perhaps a link if it is not on the RHJA ?




________________________________
From: kbrau44 <kbrau44@...>
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 11:49:33 AM
Subject: [RedHotJazz] Clarence Williams


Hi everybody,  I have a lot of suggestions for re-examine established (or
semi-established) Clarence Williams personnels, which I would like to offer in
these pages here. Let´s start with: Vocal duet Cl. Williams - Joe Sims of Jan.
1927: I hear a bjo together with cnt and pno. What do you hear and think? 
Please, listen and let me know!  K-B







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everybody,  I have a lot of suggestions for re-examine established (or
semi-established) Clarence Williams personnels, which I would like to offer in
these pages here. Let�s start with: Vocal duet Cl. Williams - Joe Sims of Jan.
1927: I hear a bjo together with cnt and pno. What do you hear and think? 
Please, listen and let me know!  K-B

Hi John, I would also wish somebody to find alternate takes of Lazy Drag,
Charleston Stampede and Georgia, but, until then, let�s be happy to have The
Mess -2.
But, as you seem to be interested in Thomas Morris: you might also be interested
in an article I have published in Names & Numbers #49 (Dutch discographical
magazine) on the Th. Morris� Past Jazz Masters with some unexpected finds (tpt
players and pianist and others)   K-B

--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "spacelights" <spacelights@...> wrote:
>
> About Morris's 1926 Victor sides... kbrau44 is correct:  The Mess-2 was in
fact included on RCA FPM1 7049.
>
> Georgia Grind-2 has been listed (in Lord, and Storyville 2002-3) as appearing
on Only For Collectors OFC 17.  That release's printed cover does not list
matrices; the one I examined included a handwritten "36047-2" for Georgia Grind,
yet aurally it was the usual -3.
>
> Some of the instrumentals were reissued on 7" Swaggie and Natchez discs:  I
haven't heard those releases, nor Collector's Classics CC 49.  The New Orleans
Blue Five master takes also appeared on Herwin 107, wonderful album.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> John
>
> ps How speculative is Rust's firmly stated
Morris/Nanton/Fuller/Shilkret/Waller with Six Hot Babies on 17 November 1926
(I'm guessing Victor files give instrumentation, and show Nat Shilkret present)?
'Fats In Fact' has Shilkret firmly on piano, and the rest named but uncertain. 
These lost performances followed Waller's first pipe organ sides: a momentous
occasion (to me, anyway).
>
> --- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <Rader.Michael@> wrote:
> >
> > The Morris sides on LP were something of a confusion. There were LPs on
French RCA and Collectors Classics which partly overlapped and partly had
different takes.
> >
> > The most significant question in this respect is currently: does the take
contained on the Frogspawn complete Morris' instrumental output for Victor which
was mainly on Frog DGF1, or are there still known takes missing?
>

FWIW, Jimmy Raschel's given name was James E. Rachels (sic), the son of a
physician.  His brother, Arthur W. Rachels, 2 years Jimmy's junior, was also a
musician.  Rachels is the consistent spelling in official records.

Jimmy was born at Mexico, Audrain County, Missouri in 1910, but the family had
moved to Danville, Vermilion County, Illinois by 1916 and were still there in
1930.  Raschel was later active in Detroit.

Bob

--- On Sat, 21/11/09, Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@...> wrote:

> From: Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@...>
> Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Frog Spawn - a first opinion RE: PAUL DAVIS matrix# 
18910 .. and matrix #18911
> To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Saturday, 21 November, 2009, 4:10 AM
> Yves, thank you for your kind words,
> which are very much appreciated. I also
> do not possess matrix #18911, more's the pity. It would be
> good to work out
> who this particular "Paul Davis" was!
>
>
> 2009/11/20 yves francois <aprestitine@...>
>
> >
> >
> > Hello, Nick, Michael and all else concerned about Paul
> Davis CHAMPION
> > 40038� ���I just purchased Frog
> Spawn, and will have more� to say in the
> > next day or so, but in the meantime, I see mention in
> the liner notes about
> > Paul Davis. I agree with the liner notes that it
> sounds like a black band
> > (the names were usually pseudonymous probably to save
> money, or have an
> > "anglo" name to sell the record better). The name
> "Paul Davis" was used on a
> > variety of records on the Champion label - much as
> certain names were used
> > on ARC etc. I have an interesting theory here
> regarding this recording
> > (matrix# 18910, you will see why I am taking about
> matrix # here in a
> > second), when I look for what band a pseudonymous
> (this is probably just
> > that considering Champion's track record with that
> name) issue on a record,
> > I look at the matrix numbers, and then play the record
> you have next to it
> > (easier said than done here!). Well I do not have
> Champion matrix # 18911,
> > but
> > look what it is ...
> > Jimmy Raschel and His orchestrano dertails except
> Jimmy Raschel, Estelle
> > Galloway vocalRichmond Indiana November 28 193218911
> It Don't Mean A Thing
> > (If It Ain't Got That Swing) (eg vcl) CHAMPION
> 1653418912 Nobody's
> > sweetheart (jr vcl) (unissued)
> > It is too bad this record is phenomenally rare, it
> would be instructive to
> > compare it. Think about it - 2 matrix numbers recorded
> (or mastered) within
> > 3 days of each other, a known black band in Jimmy
> Raschel (Raschel's bands -
> > territory band Detroit - included such alumni as
> George Johnson, Henry
> > Savage, Milt Buckner, Bernie Peacock and Howard McGhee
> over a 17 year period
> > of time), and one that sounds pretty much like a black
> territory band of
> > that part of the country in the early 1930's - makes
> one wonder - any one
> > who does own Champion 16534 please check on this
> (while we are at it were
> > there any references to Raschel by the Argentine
> guitarist bandleader Ahmed
> > Ratip - who was in detroit in the early middle
> 1930's?) - too bad I don't
> > have that one, or else I would have. more soon and all
> the bestYves Francois
> > PS Nick wonderful work on the remastering on this CD -
> I have to admit the
> > "Jackson's Southern Stompers" Marathon 227 never
> sounded better - but that
> > is another story I will continue tomorrow from last
> week (and surprised no
> > one was interested in the gentleman's response - esp
> 1933 broadcasts of the
> > Johnson band!!)
> >
> > --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Nick Dellow
<nick.dellow@...<nick.dellow%40gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@...
> <nick.dellow%40gmail.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Frog Spawn - a first
> opinion
> > To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
> <RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 1:57 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Firstly, many thanks to Michael for his in-depth
> review. As Howard
> > correctly
> >
> > surmised, the Paul Davis transfer was taken from
> Champion 40038.
> >
> > And Michael is also correct in his belief that there
> is another take of the
> >
> > Dixie Stompers' "Jackass Blues" which has still not
> made it onto CD.
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > 2009/9/11 Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@ web.de>
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > No dissent, but, two supplementary
> questions.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I can only adress one:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Has anyone ever heard the other Paul Davis
> (Underneath The Harlem
> >
> > > > Moon)? I
> >
> > > > assume Frog only have access to the reissue
> on Champion 40038 or they
> >
> > > > would
> >
> > > > have issued the original reverse. As nothing
> whatever is known about
> >
> > > > this
> >
> > > > band any notion about them is merely a
> vagrant assumption. On Gennett
> >
> > > > labels
> >
> > > > issue numbers provide no clue to the
> intended market, not that that is
> >
> > > > conclusive anyway.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Nick might be able to answer this, depending what
> Frog gave him to work
> > on.
> >
> > > The previous reissue on Harrison B gives Champion
> 16524 as its source,
> > but
> >
> > > refrains from including the other side, for
> whatever reason. 78 Quarterly
> >
> > > (under?) estimates 3 known copies, so someone
> must know the side.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Michael Rader
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Win 1 of 4 Sony home entertainment packs thanks to Yahoo!7.
Enter now: http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/

Yves, thank you for your kind words, which are very much appreciated. I also
do not possess matrix #18911, more's the pity. It would be good to work out
who this particular "Paul Davis" was!


2009/11/20 yves francois <aprestitine@...>

>
>
> Hello, Nick, Michael and all else concerned about Paul Davis CHAMPION
> 40038     I just purchased Frog Spawn, and will have more  to say in the
> next day or so, but in the meantime, I see mention in the liner notes about
> Paul Davis. I agree with the liner notes that it sounds like a black band
> (the names were usually pseudonymous probably to save money, or have an
> "anglo" name to sell the record better). The name "Paul Davis" was used on a
> variety of records on the Champion label - much as certain names were used
> on ARC etc. I have an interesting theory here regarding this recording
> (matrix# 18910, you will see why I am taking about matrix # here in a
> second), when I look for what band a pseudonymous (this is probably just
> that considering Champion's track record with that name) issue on a record,
> I look at the matrix numbers, and then play the record you have next to it
> (easier said than done here!). Well I do not have Champion matrix # 18911,
> but
> look what it is ...
> Jimmy Raschel and His orchestrano dertails except Jimmy Raschel, Estelle
> Galloway vocalRichmond Indiana November 28 193218911 It Don't Mean A Thing
> (If It Ain't Got That Swing) (eg vcl) CHAMPION 1653418912 Nobody's
> sweetheart (jr vcl) (unissued)
> It is too bad this record is phenomenally rare, it would be instructive to
> compare it. Think about it - 2 matrix numbers recorded (or mastered) within
> 3 days of each other, a known black band in Jimmy Raschel (Raschel's bands -
> territory band Detroit - included such alumni as George Johnson, Henry
> Savage, Milt Buckner, Bernie Peacock and Howard McGhee over a 17 year period
> of time), and one that sounds pretty much like a black territory band of
> that part of the country in the early 1930's - makes one wonder - any one
> who does own Champion 16534 please check on this (while we are at it were
> there any references to Raschel by the Argentine guitarist bandleader Ahmed
> Ratip - who was in detroit in the early middle 1930's?) - too bad I don't
> have that one, or else I would have. more soon and all the bestYves Francois
> PS Nick wonderful work on the remastering on this CD - I have to admit the
> "Jackson's Southern Stompers" Marathon 227 never sounded better - but that
> is another story I will continue tomorrow from last week (and surprised no
> one was interested in the gentleman's response - esp 1933 broadcasts of the
> Johnson band!!)
>
> --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Nick Dellow
<nick.dellow@...<nick.dellow%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> From: Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@... <nick.dellow%40gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Frog Spawn - a first opinion
> To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com <RedHotJazz%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 1:57 PM
>
>
>
> Firstly, many thanks to Michael for his in-depth review. As Howard
> correctly
>
> surmised, the Paul Davis transfer was taken from Champion 40038.
>
> And Michael is also correct in his belief that there is another take of the
>
> Dixie Stompers' "Jackass Blues" which has still not made it onto CD.
>
> Nick
>
> 2009/9/11 Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@ web.de>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > No dissent, but, two supplementary questions.
>
> >
>
> > I can only adress one:
>
> > >
>
> > > Has anyone ever heard the other Paul Davis (Underneath The Harlem
>
> > > Moon)? I
>
> > > assume Frog only have access to the reissue on Champion 40038 or they
>
> > > would
>
> > > have issued the original reverse. As nothing whatever is known about
>
> > > this
>
> > > band any notion about them is merely a vagrant assumption. On Gennett
>
> > > labels
>
> > > issue numbers provide no clue to the intended market, not that that is
>
> > > conclusive anyway.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Nick might be able to answer this, depending what Frog gave him to work
> on.
>
> > The previous reissue on Harrison B gives Champion 16524 as its source,
> but
>
> > refrains from including the other side, for whatever reason. 78 Quarterly
>
> > (under?) estimates 3 known copies, so someone must know the side.
>
> >
>
> > Michael Rader
>
>
>
> Recent Activity
>
>
>  3
> New Members
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit Your Group
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! News
> Odd News
> You won't believe
> it, but it's true
>
> Share Photos
> Put your favorite
> photos and
> more online.
>
> Yahoo! Groups
> Small Business Group
> Share experiences
> with owners like you_._,___
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, Nick, Michael and all else concerned about Paul Davis CHAMPION 40038�� �
I just purchased Frog Spawn, and will have more �to say in the next day or so,
but in the meantime, I see mention in the liner notes about Paul Davis. I agree
with the liner notes that it sounds like a black band (the names were usually
pseudonymous probably to save money, or have an "anglo" name to sell the record
better). The name "Paul Davis" was used on a variety of records on the Champion
label - much as certain names were used on ARC etc. I have an interesting theory
here regarding this recording (matrix# 18910, you will see why I am taking about
matrix # here in a second), when I look for what band a pseudonymous (this is
probably just that considering Champion's track record with that name) issue on
a record, I look at the matrix numbers, and then play the record you have next
to it (easier said than done here!). Well I do not have Champion matrix # 18911,
but
  look what it is ...
Jimmy Raschel and His orchestrano dertails except Jimmy Raschel, Estelle
Galloway vocalRichmond Indiana November 28 193218911 It Don't Mean A Thing (If
It Ain't Got That Swing) (eg vcl) CHAMPION 1653418912 Nobody's sweetheart (jr
vcl) (unissued)
It is too bad this record is phenomenally rare, it would be instructive to
compare it. Think about it - 2 matrix numbers recorded (or mastered) within 3
days of each other, a known black band in Jimmy Raschel (Raschel's bands -
territory band Detroit - included such alumni as George Johnson, Henry Savage,
Milt Buckner, Bernie Peacock and Howard McGhee over a 17 year period of time),
and one that sounds pretty much like a black territory band of that part of the
country in the early 1930's - makes one wonder - any one who does own Champion
16534 please check on this (while we are at it were there any references to
Raschel by the Argentine guitarist bandleader Ahmed Ratip - who was in detroit
in the early middle 1930's?) - too bad I don't have that one, or else I would
have.�more soon and�all the bestYves Francois
PS Nick wonderful work on the remastering on this CD - I have to admit the
"Jackson's Southern Stompers" Marathon 227 never sounded better - but that is
another story I will continue tomorrow from last week (and surprised no one was
interested in the gentleman's response - esp 1933 broadcasts of the Johnson
band!!)


--- On Fri, 9/11/09, Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@...> wrote:

From: Nick Dellow <nick.dellow@...>
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Frog Spawn - a first opinion
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 1:57 PM













�





                   Firstly, many thanks to Michael for his in-depth review. As
Howard correctly

surmised, the Paul Davis transfer was taken from Champion 40038.



And Michael is also correct in his belief that there is another take of the

Dixie Stompers' "Jackass Blues" which has still not made it onto CD.



Nick



2009/9/11 Michael Rader <Rader.Michael@ web.de>



>

>

> > No dissent, but, two supplementary questions.

>

> I can only adress one:

> >

> > Has anyone ever heard the other Paul Davis (Underneath The Harlem

> > Moon)? I

> > assume Frog only have access to the reissue on Champion 40038 or they

> > would

> > have issued the original reverse. As nothing whatever is known about

> > this

> > band any notion about them is merely a vagrant assumption. On Gennett

> > labels

> > issue numbers provide no clue to the intended market, not that that is

> > conclusive anyway.

>

>

>

> Nick might be able to answer this, depending what Frog gave him to work on.

> The previous reissue on Harrison B gives Champion 16524 as its source, but

> refrains from including the other side, for whatever reason. 78 Quarterly

> (under?) estimates 3 known copies, so someone must know the side.

>

> Michael Rader



















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                       Yahoo! News
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You won't believe
it, but it's true

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Put your favorite
photos and
more online.

                       Yahoo! Groups
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Share experiences
with owners like you_._,___


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby McGee"

> Whether I'll get it or not, thanks anyway, Ken!

Well, let's say this will be a warm, but collective "thank you", and all
others will be as private as the requests.
For possible further swaps, in case some do not get the early Santa-Claus
they expected, I can help you to create another group if you wish ;-)

Thinking that I could have taken advantage of my moderator's priviledges,
and begged for the whole lot before anyone had a chance to read the offer,
tsss...

P. - only joking, I'm glad the group helped with such a nice givaway.

Thanks for offering these to list-members, Ken.  That was very kind and
generous of you.

Ron L

-----Original Message-----
From: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of kenikonen
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:55 AM
To: RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RedHotJazz] The CDs

Hello again!
I was not prepared for the overwhelming response to my post on free CDs. I
will pick a few of you on a first-come, first-served basis. Sadly I must
disappoint the rest of you this time as the number of CDs is limited. But I
must say it was heartening to be reminded that there are others enjoying
this music out there!

Ken



------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Whether I'll get it or not, thanks anyway, Ken!

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 3:55 PM, kenikonen <kenikonen@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hello again!
> I was not prepared for the overwhelming response to my post on free CDs. I
> will pick a few of you on a first-come, first-served basis. Sadly I must
> disappoint the rest of you this time as the number of CDs is limited. But I
> must say it was heartening to be reminded that there are others enjoying
> this music out there!
>
> Ken
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "kenikonen" <kenikonen@...>
To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:55 PM
Subject: [RedHotJazz] The CDs


> Hello again!
> I was not prepared for the overwhelming response to my post on free CDs. I
> will pick a few of you on a first-come, first-served basis. Sadly I must
> disappoint the rest of you this time as the number of CDs is limited. But
> I must say it was heartening to be reminded that there are others enjoying
> this music out there!
>
> Ken

Lol! Did you expect RHJ members to be only interested in discussion? :D

- Please keep the same subject line when you do not really mean to create a
new topic, it helps with the consistence of "threads" for those who read
from the webpage.

Patrice - glad to learn you were ripped off in no time ;-)))

Hello again!
I was not prepared for the overwhelming response to my post on free CDs. I will
pick a few of you on a first-come, first-served basis. Sadly I must disappoint
the rest of you this time as the number of CDs is limited. But I must say it was
heartening to be reminded that there are others enjoying this music out there!

Ken

Hello!
My name is Ken and I'm new to this group, this is my first post. Somewhat
unusual perhaps, but...
I'm moving and I need to get rid of a bunch of stuff. I've cleaned out my
collection and have about 10 or more extra jazz CDs which I will send for free
to anyone who wants them. Some Frogs, Classics, Timeless with artists like
Dodds, Parham, Bix, Armstrong etc. Also later Big Band stuff. They were bought
already used but they function.

I don't want to just throw such good music away and I don't have time to start
selling them. (I've copied my favorite tracks for personal use already.)
I'll send them free of charge to anyone who writes to my e-mail
kenikonen@...
If you want more details on what I've got then just ask.

cheers Ken

On the subject of the Wade band in New York...  is this the basis for the Perry
Bradford Timeless CD's firm identification of a Wade group on the 1926 Georgia
Strutters dates?  Do our Arnett Nelson researchers hear him on the Strutters'
Wasn't It Nice?/Original Black Bottom Dance?

Here's a relevant (if somewhat open to interpretation) excerpt from Bradford's
1965 memoir... He attributes this quote to Eddie South:

"...Perry gave Jimmy Wade's band our first break when we came to New York...
yes, he laid four recording dates on us, and through Perry's efforts we got a
five months' engagement at Club Alabam.  Our band followed Fletcher (Smack)
Henderson into this exclusive club when Smack moved into the Roseland Ballroom."

Wade's group recorded with Bradford for Gennett in April 1927; the other dates
seem to be the OKeh Bradfords...?

John

ps The early Wade Paramounts are prime candidates for remastering/reissue.

About Morris's 1926 Victor sides... kbrau44 is correct:  The Mess-2 was in fact
included on RCA FPM1 7049.

Georgia Grind-2 has been listed (in Lord, and Storyville 2002-3) as appearing on
Only For Collectors OFC 17.  That release's printed cover does not list
matrices; the one I examined included a handwritten "36047-2" for Georgia Grind,
yet aurally it was the usual -3.

Some of the instrumentals were reissued on 7" Swaggie and Natchez discs:  I
haven't heard those releases, nor Collector's Classics CC 49.  The New Orleans
Blue Five master takes also appeared on Herwin 107, wonderful album.

Best wishes,

John

ps How speculative is Rust's firmly stated Morris/Nanton/Fuller/Shilkret/Waller
with Six Hot Babies on 17 November 1926 (I'm guessing Victor files give
instrumentation, and show Nat Shilkret present)?  'Fats In Fact' has Shilkret
firmly on piano, and the rest named but uncertain.  These lost performances
followed Waller's first pipe organ sides: a momentous occasion (to me, anyway).

--- In RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <Rader.Michael@...> wrote:
>
> The Morris sides on LP were something of a confusion. There were LPs on French
RCA and Collectors Classics which partly overlapped and partly had different
takes.
>
> The most significant question in this respect is currently: does the take
contained on the Frogspawn complete Morris' instrumental output for Victor which
was mainly on Frog DGF1, or are there still known takes missing?

I've just deleted a "reminder" which email subscribers still received -  in
HTML format, even though they chose plain text once and for all. No security
issue about this, only an annoyance IMO.

> The next reminder for this event will be sent in 3 days, 2 minutes.

I trust it won't, now that I've disabled the "calendar" feature. I don't
know if everyone here agrees, but I don't think we need to receive reminders
about everyone's birthdays or appointments with the dentist. Interesting
events can be mentioned by posting to the group, there's no need for
automated features for that.
There is no "Dr Delgado" on this group, as far as  know, and the name under
which the person responsible for this obscure announcement originally
subscribed has apparently vanished from the member's list.

Patrice

----- Original Message -----
From: <drjazztb@...>
To: <RedHotJazz@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [RedHotJazz] Wingy's Casino Royale Orchestra


> I'm cognizant of the fact that this is a Forum,  but thanks for reminding
> me. It was Scott Alexander whom I sent numerous e-mails  about incorrect
> personnel on different records, literally for months, and  apparently
> hasn't
> read them or has put his correspondence in charge of someone  who hasn't
> either. Since you don't approve of my trying to find out whom to  voice my
> corrections on this forum, and Alexander doesn't respond or make the
> corrections,
> who do you suggest I ask?

  Unfortunately, we don't have anything to suggest other than requesting
again (and again) the help of anyone who would know how to get in touch with
Scott! There was no disapproval in Micheal's comment, just a useful reminder
for all readers of this  group's messages : none of us can interfere with
the RHJ website, not even for such minor (technically speaking) corrections.

Patrice (the "other" co-moderator)