Mark,
You mention below that you haven't heard too much of
Conspiracy. Well, IMHO, you aren't missing much. It is
nothing like Yes music really, unless you compare it
to Rabin's Yes and then maybe you can say it is a bit
like that. Or it also does compare to Yes' folly
release, Open Your Eyes. OYE has a few good moments,
but is basically a Billy Sherwood/Chris Squire affair.
Just not my cuppa. To each his own. Some Yes fans
love it.

And, not to belabor the point, but to be clear:
Magnification was released in EUROPE on 9/11/01, but
not in the US until December 2001.

Guy

--- Mark Smith <dimension05@...> wrote:

> Yep, the phrase "Secular Humanism" is seen as bad by
> some, just as the word "Liberal." They can cause red
> flags to go up! Thanks for helping me see from
> another angle, Guy. Yes, the word "secular" does
> mean, imply, suggest: "outside of organized
> religion." One reason I used the word "secular" is
> that it goes well with the word "spirituality." And
> regarding Yes specifically...I've always been awed
> at Yes's ability to express a spirituality within
> the secular world - the common everyday world we all
> live in.
>
> One example of the secular world (to me) is the
> music industry itself. The music business itself
> (money, power, ego's) is one good example of
> "secularism." You know the "go for it (profit,
> prestige, etc.) no matter the cost...no matter how
> many people you have to step on in order to get it."
> Jon has often sung against such ugliness..."Be gone
> you ever piercing power play machine." Yeah, be
> gone, because it sure the hell gets in the way of
> true art, such as Yes music! (Sarcastic) Yet (I
> know), Yes themselves (as well as all of them)
> wouldn't have the worldly exposure, or longevity,
> without that very "play machine." Secularism. It
> APPEARS to be a "necessary evil."
>
> To fine tune here, being that I did not intend the
> phrase "secular spirituality" to have anything to do
> with religion actually, perhaps a more accurate
> phrase would be "Human Spirituality?" For, I see it
> as a spirituality that is natural to our human
> nature. It is a birthright. (Gee, after all these
> years of listening to Yes music, no wonder I see
> this way...as do you and many others.)
>
> Because of the magical (and mysterious) way that
> much of Yes's music is expressed, I feel that they
> have helped us listeners sense that goodness, love,
> beauty, and spirituality are easy (ok, simple,
> natural). (Woops, here comes the gratitude again!)
>
> You know Guy, I haven't really heard too much of
> Conspiracy. After a certain point, I kinda zoned
> out, which had nothing to do about "the way the band
> was going." I guess you could say that I already got
> what I liked and didn't need anymore at that time -
> you know what I mean? I just so happened to "get
> back on board" (a little) with Magnification.
> Therefore, in this way, you've helped me to see that
> this thread would be better titled..."I love the
> SPIRIT of Yes music because..." For, I'm not too
> swift about the music post Talk. (Although, after
> readings from another group, I was inspired to get
> "The Ladder." But, I've only listened to it a few
> times. A VERY good Yes album! I like! But as an
> experience Yes fan, I know that their albums grow on
> you with time. Isn't it interesting that we fans
> often don't "get" what the band "got," until years
> later?)
>
> I think I had read somewhere about Mag coming out on
> 9/11, but I had forgotten it. Thanks for the
> reminder. Very interesting and important connection.
> But, I admit I am a bit partial (or Pollyannaish?)
> that the spirit of the music of Yes has been (is)
> "prophetic" for the whole latter half of the 20th
> century! Or said another way, to me the value and
> importance of the spirit of Yes's music has always
> been harmonious to human beings no matter the moment
> in history (This is really an expanded way of
> agreeing with you Guy).
>
> Thank you,
> Mark
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Guy DeRome
> To: WeHaveHeaven@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [WeHaveHeaven] Re: I love Yes music
> because ...
>
>
> Mark,
> Very well put. So many things to comment on.
>
> I truely believe that we are all a little bit of
> God
> or, rather, God is in all of us. What we call
> "God" is
> really a collective human consciousness.
>
> To me, "secular spirituality" means spirituality
> that
> is outside of organized religion; a sort of
> gnostiscm.
> And I am sure the right-wing religious fanatics
> would
> lump that all into what they derogatorily call
> secular
> humanism.
>
> I agree about the balance and complementary nature
> of
> Chris and Jon's collaboration. They are together
> greater than the sum of their parts. Their solos
> efforts are not as great as their best Yes
> creations
> by far. What do you think of Conspiracy? I find
> it
> bland and uninteresting with little to say
> musically
> or lyrically.
>
> For me, the line "we're standing on sacred ground"
> means that it is ALL sacred ground. It is sacred
> because WE are standing on it. We are sacred,
> therefore the ground on which we stand is sacred.
> Magnification came to sound very prophetic with
> 9/11.
> I was living in Barclona on 9/11/01. I watched it
> unfold on TV there. It was a holiday and we were
> at
> lunch at some friend's house. Magnification was
> released in Europe on...9/11/01.
>
> Keep up the good work; spreading the gospel
> according
> to YES!
>
> Guy
>
> --- Mark Smith <dimension05@...> wrote:
>
> > Human/Gods? Gods/Humans? We grow. We learn. We
> > mature. Our Yes-Gods turn out to be human beings
> > after all. It causes me to wonder
> > sometimes...perhaps they ARE gods...within their
> > humanness? If that is true, then perhaps we too
> are
> > gods in our humanness?
> >
> > That is the core of a talk/presentation I've
> given
> > that speaks of a secular spirituality. I could
> > explain that phrase if you want, but if one sits
> > with it for a while, perhaps it becomes pretty
> > obvious what it means?
> >
> > ONE of the most human/divine pieces of Yes music
> to
> > me is "I Get Up, I Get Down." The humanness
> blended
> > with the divinity of it is - to me - beyond
> > masterful, beyond... In this talk, after I
> play
> > for my audience this piece of music I say, "Can
> it
> > be possible that in blending and balancing the
> > opposites of good and bad in our own human
> nature, a
> > divine nature can then float to the surface?"
> >
> > THIS is a big reason why I am on fire with
> gratitude
> > for the existence of Yes music, because when the
> > music gets into your pores, you can hear - no
> FEEL -
> > that the music has succeeded in expressing this
> > human/divine nature. Not only expressing it, but
> > offering hope that it CAN be a possibility! At
> this
> > point, one can ONLY want to celebrate!
> >
> > Most places I've only seen a hopeLESSness
> regarding
> > our humanness (and within my own life as well).
> In
> > the end, many, many ideologies (that I've seen)
> > equate humanness and despair.
> >
> > A wonderful quality that the BAND Yes contains
> is
> > that in Thomas Mosbo's book "YES - But What Does
> It
> > Mean?" he clarifies that Chris is the
> (practical)
> > humanist, and Jon is the (dreamy) spiritualist.
> And
> > that it is the balance between these two
> personality
> > forces that has been a strong factor in their
> > success and longevity. Perhaps this sort of
> artistic
> > union exists in other places, but I myself have
> not
> > seen it.
> >
> > I conclude my presentation ("Secular
> Spirituality
=== message truncated ===


Guy DeRome
guyderome@...

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