I thought I was the only one who heard a resemblance between the better

middle-late period music of Philip Glass and Anton Bruckner, but over the years

a small number of people have at least seen where I came from if they did not

out-and-out agree with me.  There are certain aspects of tonality (Their

predilection for modulating to chromatic third relationships), the preponderance

of ostinatos and arpeggios, wide-ranging themes with strong tonalities based on

tonics and fifths, jaunty dotted rhythms and  polyrhythmic construction (twos

against threes), voicing, and, probably most of all, a similar idea of

orchestral sound:  The "Pruit Igoe" movement from "Koyannisqatsi" sounds like

minimalist Bruckner, and I'm sure AB gave a heavenly grin at the

quintessentially Brucknerian massive brass chorale at the opening of "Songs from

Liquid Days."



It would be interesting to read if other people hear what I hear (or not)!



Viszontlátásra

John Orzel



P.S.:  Hi, Joel!

--- In antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com, "John Orzel" <johnorzel@...> wrote:

>

> I thought I was the only one who heard a resemblance between the better

middle-late period music of Philip Glass and Anton Bruckner, but over the years

a small number of people have at least seen where I came from if they did not

out-and-out agree with me.  There are certain aspects of tonality (Their

predilection for modulating to chromatic third relationships), the preponderance

of ostinatos and arpeggios, wide-ranging themes with strong tonalities based on

tonics and fifths, jaunty dotted rhythms and  polyrhythmic construction (twos

against threes), voicing, and, probably most of all, a similar idea of

orchestral sound:  The "Pruit Igoe" movement from "Koyannisqatsi" sounds like

minimalist Bruckner, and I'm sure AB gave a heavenly grin at the

quintessentially Brucknerian massive brass chorale at the opening of "Songs from

Liquid Days."

>

> It would be interesting to read if other people hear what I hear (or not)!

>

> Viszontlátásra

> John Orzel

>

> P.S.:  Hi, Joel!



Hi, Well, I can't go into technical details quite like you can John, But I

always thought AB had minimalist qualities. OK, we know about his massively rich

harmonies and orchestration. But what about AB's other side of bleak and thinly

orchestrated sections and constant repeating and developing short themes.

Although I don't think AB could be classed as a minimalist composer but he must

have had a say in that movement later on...



Rgds,



David...

>

--- In antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com, "Len Oakes" <lenoakes@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear All,

>

>

>

> I've just received my copy of the Bruckner Journal. It contains a report and

> photographs from the Sixth Bruckner Journal Readers Conference. Seems that

> most of the participants were men, and all the posters on this site appear

> to be male also. Any comments? Implications?

>

>

>

> Regards - Len.



Well you may have point there!! I have only met one woman who liked the music of

Bruckner. She mainly listened to the 7th on her mp3 player.

It must be the social circle I'm involved in, But most women go for Mozart,

Beethoven or Mendelssohn.

Mind you, I haven't met many men who liked AB as well..I think we are in an

elite few..

>

Rgds,



Dave.

--- In antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com, John Soutter <soutteruk@...> wrote:

>

>

> Dear Len,

>  

> NO. Too many implications I don 't like. Sorry.

>  

> John Soutter

> Rue des Lilas 10

> Genève 1202

> La Suisse

> tele: 0041223106842

> mob : 0041798279109

>

> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Len Oakes <lenoakes@...> wrote:

>

>

> From: Len Oakes <lenoakes@...>

> Subject: RE: [Y! Bruckner] Is AB a guy thing?

> To: antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:00 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear John,

>  

> I believe that Dave was being tongue-in-cheek. A jest among friends, no?

>  

> Regards â€" Len.

>  

>

>

>

>

> From: antonbrucknerclub@ yahoogroups. com [mailto: antonbrucknerclub@

yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of John Soutter

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:12 PM

> To: antonbrucknerclub@ yahoogroups. com

> Subject: Re: [Y! Bruckner] Is AB a guy thing?

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dear All

>

>  

>

> I don't like this if-you-are-this-then-you-must- be-that argument. If you like

Wagner you must be an antisemite: nonsense and stop your guying.

>

>  

>

> Bruckner fans might be a just a few (and not all are men as this site proves

as does my wife who, although she would not rush out and buy the latest AB cd

under Klemperer or Furtwängler nonetheless, does like the Fifth and Sixth);

but as soon as I hear the we-are-an-elite- because-we-are- too-few argument, I

insist on being counted out.

>

>  

>

> John Soutter

> Rue des Lilas 10

> Genève 1202

> La Suisse

> tele: 0041223106842

> mob : 0041798279109

>

>

> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Len Oakes < lenoakes@optusnet. com.au > wrote:

>

> From: Len Oakes < lenoakes@optusnet. com.au >

> Subject: [Y! Bruckner] Is AB a guy thing?

> To: antonbrucknerclub@ yahoogroups. com

> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 1:25 AM

>

>

>

>

>  

> Dear All,

>  

> I’ve just received my copy of the Bruckner Journal. It contains a report and

photographs from the Sixth Bruckner Journal Readers Conference. Seems that most

of the participants were men, and all the posters on this site appear to be male

also. Any comments? Implications?

>  

> Regards â€" Len.

>  

>

Guys! it was just an observation! that's all..In no way was I implying

anything..I LOVE Bruckners music..NOT everybody does!..sorry that's the way it

is..I'm sorry that you took that so personally..



Rgds,



Dave..

My copy must be a different one, because there is, at least, one woman in the conference report pictures ;-)

Regards,

Jorge

> As for Bruckner being (possibly) more of a male taste, well, hey, I'm
> probably wrong and maybe it says a lot about me, but I just thought that
> he's just so un-romantic (the title of the 4th notwithstanding), so
> un-erotic, so severe and uncompromising and absolute, and I associate this
> more with masculinity, though of course by no means exclusively.

You may have a point there. Except...
(And, no need to say romantic music lovers are both, men and women.)
Some conductors, actually many, play Bruckner somehow like Wagner. Mainly in what concerns strings, sometimes a notice a kind of charm, which I usually associate with `romantic'.
I hadn't noticed it until I attended a live 'Die Walkyrie'.
So, some people might consider the music kind of romantic, but on the other hand, there's the strength, the tension, and also, the length and the dynamics, the lots of brass (which isn't soft at all), that hardly pleases the common romantic music lover.
I also saw older people (actually, older than me...) leaving the hall by the break, after a Chopin concert, before a Bruckner Third. I wonder if they had any commitment, because I also saw a notorious person leaving the same hall by the break on another concert.
But I do suspect many even avoid Bruckner. I think the common lover of Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Schumann, Tchaikovsky, and so on, usually doesn't like Bruckner, unlike the lover of Mahler and Richard Strauss, for example.
I guess we, group members, are a bad example, because I suppose most like almost all the composers I mentioned.
I forgot a detail. I've frequented lots of groups in the past, and still frequent several.  I rarely noticed female members on almost all, and I remember once a female member joining a group by pure chance (found it thru Google, while looking for something else ("bee", actually, retrieving "Beethoven"), and she didn't have any interest on Bruckner, at all. I didn't take it seriously, because a male member also didn't.
 
BTW, I usually interest most people on Bruckner thru the Scherzo of the Ninth; I don't count them anymore.
 
 
Regards,
 
Jorge

--- In antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com, "Len Oakes" <lenoakes@...> wrote:
> Dear Jorge,
> Thanks for that. It actually rang several bells for me.
> I was introduced to Bruckner by an elderly client, well, very elderly
> actually: 89 when we first met. He was a wonderful old man, Polish, had a
> hell of a life, but he insisted I listen and I never really got it while he
> was alive. Then after he died (age 93) I listened again, more from
> sentimentality than anything else. But the first pieces that made an impact
> were the scherzi, specifically the 8th and, to a lesser degree the 9th. The
> 8th in particular seemed so contradictory, so peculiar, funny but yet also
> kinda., kinda., kinda ., well, I'm sure you know what I mean. To be honest I
> still didn't really like them much but I found them fascinating in a way I'd
> never heard before. It was by closely following the repetitions around and
> around that I began to notice the cycles and variations and to work out what
> he was doing and how it all added up to something much greater than the
> parts. So I started listening to the other movements with that new
> understanding and suddenly the slow movement of the 8th fell into place. But
> for me the breakthrough came with the slow movement of the 4th, still for me
> the essence of Bruckner. Now I find I've listened to it so often that I
> can't do so anymore; I need to put it aside for a year or so and re-discover
> it again. Or find another performance and listen anew. I would love to see
> the man who introduced Bruckner to me again and tell him how much he's come
> to mean to me.
> As for Bruckner being (possibly) more of a male taste, well, hey, I'm
> probably wrong and maybe it says a lot about me, but I just thought that
> he's just so un-romantic (the title of the 4th notwithstanding), so
> un-erotic, so severe and uncompromising and absolute, and I associate this
> more with masculinity, though of course by no means exclusively. The first
> time I played the slow movement of the 8th to my wife she was quite blown
> away, and when we listened to the Te Deum together she was quite stunned and
> very impressed. But having said that she still prefers the motets and the
> Quintet I think. And there's the Schubert connection (though I wish someone
> would make a major effort to spell that out for me - I hear it but can't
> articulate what it is). Anyway, her route to much classical music is through
> the Trout Quartet, which carries a similar flavour in some places to the
> Bruckner Quintet.
> Anyway, thanks for the post.
> Regards - Len.
> _____
> From: antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jorge F
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:10 PM
> To: antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Y! Bruckner] Re: Is AB a guy thing?

>
> Sure ;-)
> To be honest, I can't remember women appreciating Bruckner music, but most I
> discuss music with do not even like classical that much.
> Narrowing the list to the four I think that are relevant examples, I don't
> remember having discussed Bruckner with one that did love classical, another
> one doesn't dislike it (but isn't her first choice), another one couldn't
> stand it, and there is a particular case.
> This one was a former girlfriend, some three or four years ago. She hadn't
> even heard of Bruckner, but got interested due my interest. I borrowed her
> the Fourth and the Seventh symphonies, the ones that most people usually
> like at first, and her silence about them made me suspect she didn't like.
> I asked her about it, and she tried to avoid the subject, just admitting it
> wasn't easy listening.
> Then I tried something else, I'd already tried with others. Without letting
> her know what was being played, I made her listen to both Scherzi, of the
> Fourth and the Seventh, next the Ninth one, and next others.
> She almost jumped, saying "What is that?! That is very funny, very nice,
> indeed! C'mon, tell me what it is!"
> As you must have guessed, my answer was rather laconic, "Bruckner". Period.
> "You sure?", she insisted, "I like it, it's nice.".
> No need to say I reminded her she had the CDs at her place, waiting to be
> listened.
> Anyway, we broke soon after that, and I don't know how far she would have
> gone with the music.
> No, about guys, I happen to know a lot who don't like Bruckner music that
> much, not to mention those who don't like it at all. That is why I don't
> think it is either a women or men affair.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jorge
>
> --- In antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com, "Len Oakes" lenoakes@ wrote:
> >
> > Dear Jorge,
> > I only said "most".
> > Okay, just disregard it as my naff attempt to be colourful, and I'll try
> to
> > make all future posts in common time.
> > Regards - Len.
> > _____
> > From: antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jorge F
> > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 3:59 AM
> > To: antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Y! Bruckner] Is AB a guy thing?
> > My copy must be a different one, because there is, at least, one woman in
> > the conference report pictures ;-)
> > Regards,
> > Jorge
> > --- In antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com, "Len Oakes" lenoakes@ wrote:
> > > Dear All,
> > > I've just received my copy of the Bruckner Journal. It contains a report
> > and
> > > photographs from the Sixth Bruckner Journal Readers Conference. Seems
> that
> > > most of the participants were men, and all the posters on this site
> appear
> > > to be male also. Any comments? Implications?
> > > Regards - Len.
> > >
> >
>

My wife likes Bruckner... but then, she also rides a motorcycle occasionally,

and as a kid, learned to fly her dad's plane... so maybe that doesn't entirely

shoot the theory....



Urb



\> --- In antonbrucknerclub@yahoogroups.com, "Len Oakes" <lenoakes@>

> wrote:

> > Dear All,

> > I've just received my copy of the Bruckner Journal. It contains a

> report and

> > photographs from the Sixth Bruckner Journal Readers Conference. Seems

> that

> > most of the participants were men, and all the posters on this site

> appear

> > to be male also. Any comments? Implications?

> > Regards - Len.

> >

>