The Santa Cruz, CA chorus (not the chapter), www. scbarbershop . org/,
is already set up that way. Women are considered "auxiliary singers" and
are not members of the chapter or BHS. They are singing the men's
arrangements in the men's keys, but filling in where parts are scarce.
There may be others who are doing that, but Santa Cruz I know is.

B Richardson wrote:
> Don't ya think if the society could expand their scope to support the
> mixed bshopping more it could help the membership woes as well?   They
> have contests for youth choirs now and college quartets, why no expand
> to the mixed genre.  Could even help some of the small choruses who
> are struggling for members.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Bruce Richardson
>
> Considering starting a mixed group and or inviting wives to learn one
> or two numbers for next year's show.
--
Sing-cerely & Humm-bly,

John Elving
VP Mus. & Perf.
Editor-in-Cheap, First Place 2008 Online Bulletin
Shrine of Democracy Chorus
2007 BOTY
PROBE VP- Bulletin Editors
Outstanding In Front - Certified Trainer
Certified Standing Ovation Trainer & Reviewer
Rapid City, SD
Email: leaderman@...

 

No disrespect to anyone’s wife, but I go to rehearsal on Tuesday to get away from my family for a few hours and spend it in the company of men, where I can let my (thinning) hair down, so to speak.  Inviting the wives would drive me right out of here.
 
Tim Buell
Free State 4
Heart of Maryland Chorus
 

 

In the same vein, SAI and HI are organizations formed specifically for women.  If the men don't want mixed barbershop in their group, why would you think the women would?!  

I truly do like the idea of mixed barbershop -- and would love to be a part of a mixed barbershop quartet -- in addition to but not in place of my women's chorus.   So, maybe there's a way to promote the mixed barbershop without taking away from the exclusively men's and women's groups.

Betsy Long
Song of Atlanta Show Chorus
Contestant #16 in Hawaii!

---

From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boll
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:46 PM
To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [barbershopquartet] re: mixed bshop

BHS is a male group.  Maybe the same consideration should be presented to the SAI.
I love the ladies, but maybe this should also could be suggested to the HI.  We are all
looking for more members so is there hopefully a viable solution?.

Bill Boll


On 9/6/08 4:07 PM, "Tim Buell" <tpbuell@...> wrote:

 

No  disrespect to anyone’s wife, but I go to rehearsal on Tuesday to get away from  my family for a few hours and spend it in the company of men, where I can let  my (thinning) hair down, so to speak.  Inviting the wives would drive me  right out of here.
 
Tim Buell
Free State 4
Heart of  Maryland Chorus
 

 
    

I have to say that I too like to have my night out. That being said, I
realize that there are chapters in small towns where you need help in
filling in the parts. I was hired several years ago, and several towns
ago, to direct a chorus for a chapter in a small town. Through many
circumstances, the chapter had dwindled to five or six guys when I
started. Not one of those was a tenor, or capable of singing tenor.
Thank heavens for my wife. Even though she doesn't like Barbershop (I
don't like her bagpipes for the same reasons), she admirably filled in
at tenor until we recruited a tenor. I can happily say that the chapter
flourished and is now, still in that small town, somewhere between 45
and fifty members, has started another chapter some 50 miles away, and
has spawned a quartet champion. However, had it not been for someone of
another gender stepping up to the plate to complete the four-part
harmony needed for Barbershop, the chapter would most likely have died
right then and there.

Although I would rather sing with all guys, if I were in a situation
where the choice was having a mixed chorus singing Barbershop, or no
chorus, I would take the mixed every time. Then we could build from
there. And I'm not saying we should have female members of the Society.
However, in many of those small towns throughout America, there is
neither men's or women's Barbershop. It's a start to get them both
interested. JMHO.

Tim Buell wrote:
>
> No disrespect to anyone’s wife, but I go to rehearsal on Tuesday to
> get away from my family for a few hours and spend it in the company of
> men, where I can let my (thinning) hair down, so to speak. Inviting
> the wives would drive me right out of here.
>
> Tim Buell
>
> Free State 4
>
> Heart of Maryland Chorus
>
--
Sing-cerely & Humm-bly,

John Elving
VP Mus. & Perf.
Editor-in-Cheap, First Place 2008 Online Bulletin
Shrine of Democracy Chorus
2007 BOTY
PROBE VP- Bulletin Editors
Outstanding In Front - Certified Trainer
Certified Standing Ovation Trainer & Reviewer
Rapid City, SD
Email: leaderman@...

Don't get me wrong.  I don't have a problem with mixed barbershop.  There
are times when I have stepped up and rung a tag with as many as 3 ladies, so
that isn't the problem.  But the note I responded to put forth the idea that
we could "solve" some of our recruitment problems by starting to invite
women into our groups.  I am all for the Society "partnering" with a mixed
BBS society, if there is one, in the same way we "partner" with SAI and HI.

Maybe you are right, and in some small towns, a mixed BBS society would be a
better vehicle for introducing the art form.  But I also believe that the
uniqueness of 4 male voices singing together in harmony, ringing those
chords, can't be topped by any other vocal music.

Tim Buell

>
> I have to say that I too like to have my night out. That being said, I
> realize that there are chapters in small towns where you need help in
> filling in the parts.

It seems to me that the weakness in forming a Bshop quartet is generally finding a quality Tenor.

 

A question for lady quarteters:  I am curious, is there a part in a ladies quartet that is difficult to cast?

 

 

 

Frankly, I just want to make good music and perform.  I would be happy to harmonize with a martian if I could find one with similar goals, similar level of commitment, and who could help me ring chords!

 

 

Harmoniously,

 

Dale Steinmann

415-507-6787

Ops (Latin) : the Roman goddess of abundance

 

From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Betsy Long
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 2:06 PM
To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [barbershopquartet] re: mixed bshop

 

In the same vein, SAI and HI are organizations formed specifically for women.  If the men don't want mixed barbershop in their group, why would you think the women would?!  

 

I truly do like the idea of mixed barbershop -- and would love to be a part of a mixed barbershop quartet -- in addition to but not in place of my women's chorus.   So, maybe there's a way to promote the mixed barbershop without taking away from the exclusively men's and women's groups.

 

Betsy Long

Song of Atlanta Show Chorus

Contestant #16 in Hawaii!

---

From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boll
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:46 PM
To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [barbershopquartet] re: mixed bshop

BHS is a male group.  Maybe the same consideration should be presented to the SAI.
I love the ladies, but maybe this should also could be suggested to the HI.  We are all
looking for more members so is there hopefully a viable solution?.

Bill Boll


On 9/6/08 4:07 PM, "Tim Buell" <tpbuell@gmail.com> wrote:

 

No disrespect to anyone’s wife, but I go to rehearsal on Tuesday to get away from my family for a few hours and spend it in the company of men, where I can let my (thinning) hair down, so to speak.  Inviting the wives would drive me right out of here.
 
Tim Buell
Free State 4
Heart of Maryland Chorus
 

Tenors seem to be hardest to find in both the mens and women's area.
One would think that a lady bass would be scare, but tenors are always a
premium when forming a quartet.

Lee
Tenor

>>> Dale Steinmann <dale.steinmann@...> 09/07/08 8:35 PM >>>
It seems to me that the weakness in forming a Bshop quartet is generally
finding a quality Tenor.

A question for lady quarteters:  I am curious, is there a part in a
ladies quartet that is difficult to cast?



Frankly, I just want to make good music and perform.  I would be happy
to harmonize with a martian if I could find one with similar goals,
similar level of commitment, and who could help me ring chords!


Harmoniously,

Dale Steinmann
415-507-6787
Ops (Latin) : the Roman goddess of abundance

From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Betsy Long
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 2:06 PM
To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [barbershopquartet] re: mixed bshop

In the same vein, SAI and HI are organizations formed specifically for
women.  If the men don't want mixed barbershop in their group, why would
you think the women would?!

I truly do like the idea of mixed barbershop -- and would love to be a
part of a mixed barbershop quartet -- in addition to but not in place of
my women's chorus.   So, maybe there's a way to promote the mixed
barbershop without taking away from the exclusively men's and women's
groups.

Betsy Long
Song of Atlanta Show Chorus
Contestant #16 in Hawaii!
________________________________
From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Boll
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:46 PM
To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [barbershopquartet] re: mixed bshop

BHS is a male group.  Maybe the same consideration should be presented
to the SAI.
I love the ladies, but maybe this should also could be suggested to the
HI.  We are all
looking for more members so is there hopefully a viable solution?.

Bill Boll


On 9/6/08 4:07 PM, "Tim Buell" <tpbuell@...> wrote:



No disrespect to anyone's wife, but I go to rehearsal on Tuesday to get
away from my family for a few hours and spend it in the company of men,
where I can let my (thinning) hair down, so to speak.  Inviting the
wives would drive me right out of here.

Tim Buell
Free State 4
Heart of Maryland Chorus





** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are
confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this
e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy all
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University of North Texas is in Denton, Texas.  I actually work for the
Health Science Center which is in Ft. Worth.

>>> Dale Steinmann <dale.steinmann@...> 09/08/08 10:29 AM >>>
Where is UNT?

Dale Steinmann
415-507-6787
Ops (Latin) : the Roman goddess of abundance

From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee Tayon
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:41 AM
To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [barbershopquartet] mixed bshop - question for the ladies
quartets


Tenors seem to be hardest to find in both the mens and women's area.
One would think that a lady bass would be scare, but tenors are always a
premium when forming a quartet.

Lee
Tenor

>>> Dale Steinmann
<dale.steinmann@...<mailto:dale.steinmann%40autodesk.com>>
09/07/08 8:35 PM >>>
It seems to me that the weakness in forming a Bshop quartet is generally
finding a quality Tenor.

A question for lady quarteters: I am curious, is there a part in a
ladies quartet that is difficult to cast?

Frankly, I just want to make good music and perform. I would be happy
to harmonize with a martian if I could find one with similar goals,
similar level of commitment, and who could help me ring chords!

Harmoniously,

Dale Steinmann
415-507-6787
Ops (Latin) : the Roman goddess of abundance

From:
barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com<mailto:barbershopquartet%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com<mailto:barbershopquartet%40yahoogroups\
.com>]
On Behalf Of Betsy Long
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 2:06 PM
To:
barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com<mailto:barbershopquartet%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [barbershopquartet] re: mixed bshop

In the same vein, SAI and HI are organizations formed specifically for
women. If the men don't want mixed barbershop in their group, why would
you think the women would?!

I truly do like the idea of mixed barbershop -- and would love to be a
part of a mixed barbershop quartet -- in addition to but not in place of
my women's chorus. So, maybe there's a way to promote the mixed
barbershop without taking away from the exclusively men's and women's
groups.

Betsy Long
Song of Atlanta Show Chorus
Contestant #16 in Hawaii!
________________________________
From:
barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com<mailto:barbershopquartet%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com<mailto:barbershopquartet%40yahoogroups\
.com>]
On Behalf Of Bill Boll
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 4:46 PM
To:
barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com<mailto:barbershopquartet%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [barbershopquartet] re: mixed bshop

BHS is a male group. Maybe the same consideration should be presented
to the SAI.
I love the ladies, but maybe this should also could be suggested to the
HI. We are all
looking for more members so is there hopefully a viable solution?.

Bill Boll

On 9/6/08 4:07 PM, "Tim Buell"
<tpbuell@...<mailto:tpbuell%40gmail.com>> wrote:

No disrespect to anyone's wife, but I go to rehearsal on Tuesday to get
away from my family for a few hours and spend it in the company of men,
where I can let my (thinning) hair down, so to speak. Inviting the
wives would drive me right out of here.

Tim Buell
Free State 4
Heart of Maryland Chorus

** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it
are confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for
the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you
have received this e-mail in error please notify the originator of the
message and destroy all copies. **




** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are
confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this
e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy all
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As one third of a trio looking for a fourth, we think that quartet quality leads
are scarce.
Being a strong chorus lead is not the same as 'leading' a quartet....

Teresa Block (bari/bass)
Lone Star Chorus



--- In barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com, Dale Steinmann <dale.steinmann@...>
wrote:
>
> It seems to me that the weakness in forming a Bshop quartet is generally
finding a
quality Tenor.
>
> A question for lady quarteters:  I am curious, is there a part in a ladies
quartet that is
difficult to cast?
>
>
>
> Frankly, I just want to make good music and perform.  I would be happy to
harmonize
with a martian if I could find one with similar goals, similar level of
commitment, and who
could help me ring chords!
>
>
> Harmoniously,
>
> Dale Steinmann
> 415-507-6787

Heh, so perhaps the real answer for the hard part to find is "the one part
the three of us don't have"?  :)

Rebecca
bari
Durham Shores Chorus


> As one third of a trio looking for a fourth, we think that quartet quality
> leads are scarce.
> Being a strong chorus lead is not the same as 'leading' a quartet....
>
> Teresa Block (bari/bass)
> Lone Star Chorus
>
>
>
> --- In barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com, Dale Steinmann
> <dale.steinmann@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that the weakness in forming a Bshop quartet is generally
>> finding a
> quality Tenor.
>>
>> A question for lady quarteters:  I am curious, is there a part in a
>> ladies quartet that is
> difficult to cast?
>>
>>
>>
>> Frankly, I just want to make good music and perform.  I would be happy
>> to harmonize
> with a martian if I could find one with similar goals, similar level of
> commitment, and who
> could help me ring chords!
>>
>>
>> Harmoniously,
>>
>> Dale Steinmann
>> 415-507-6787
>
>
>
>


--

Rebecca,
I think you hit the nail on the head!

Lee
Tenor
Lone Star Chorus
Magic Mix Quartet

>>> "Rebecca Gilbert" <rebecca@...> 09/09/08 8:19 AM >>>
Heh, so perhaps the real answer for the hard part to find is "the one
part
the three of us don't have"?  :)

Rebecca
bari
Durham Shores Chorus


> As one third of a trio looking for a fourth, we think that quartet
quality
> leads are scarce.
> Being a strong chorus lead is not the same as 'leading' a quartet....
>
> Teresa Block (bari/bass)
> Lone Star Chorus
>
>
>
> --- In barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com, Dale Steinmann
> <dale.steinmann@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that the weakness in forming a Bshop quartet is
generally
>> finding a
> quality Tenor.
>>
>> A question for lady quarteters:  I am curious, is there a part in a
>> ladies quartet that is
> difficult to cast?
>>
>>
>>
>> Frankly, I just want to make good music and perform.  I would be
happy
>> to harmonize
> with a martian if I could find one with similar goals, similar level
of
> commitment, and who
> could help me ring chords!
>>
>>
>> Harmoniously,
>>
>> Dale Steinmann
>> 415-507-6787
>
>
>
>


--





** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are
confidential to the extent permitted by law and intended solely for the use of
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this
e-mail in error please notify the originator of the message and destroy all
copies. **

I totally agree with that.   Last year, there was a quartet trying to form
and I somehow ended up the lead.  We never did get off the ground, but
even in trying to learn my part for the song we picked, I realized just
how much work this would be as a lead.

I have sung lead before...not in barbershop.....I replaced a lead that
left a group and it was really hard for quite a while because I ALWAYS did
a harmony part.  Probably because from a very young age I COULD sing a
harmony part.  Choir masters don't put the kids who can sing harmony on
the melody, so a lot of time, I don't even really HEAR the melody.

When I was being voice placed in the chorus I'm in, the director was
wavering between lead, tenor and baritone (I can't quite do bass really).
I flat out told her I didn't want to be a lead.  At the TIME, we were
short tenors ...only 2 in a chorus of 40...although right now we have 7 in
a chorus of 50.  She asked me what my thoughts about dissonance were.  I
believe that my answer was what made me a baritone.  I told her I LOVE the
dissonant note. I love PUSHING on it it until it resolves.  She told me I
had the *attitude* of a baritone.  I had no idea what that meant.  After
about a month, I think I got it.  I DO have the attitude of a baritone.
:)

And besides....as a baritone......what do you MEAN I don't have the
melody.  ;)


> Rebecca and Lee, like most who sing harmony parts, I never realized what
> was required of the Lead until I started singing that part. Most of us
> think they just sing away and expect us to keep up or match... and some
> Leads try unsuccessfully to do just that.
>
> I find the biggest problem with Quartet Leads is a refusal to listen to
> themselves in the blend and take into consideration the vocal qualities /
> limitations of the others. A Quartet Lead is NOT an easy job... (just
> remembering HOW you sang it the last time is a problem for some of us
> older people.)  (big smile)
>
> Jon
>
> Bass/Bari/Lead/ Wannabe Tenor
>


--

Basically my strategy as a baritone is to learn my part and BELIVE IN MY
HEART that I have the melody and sing with the CONFIDENCE that I have the
melody.  Then I have half a hope of not being knocked off my part.  :)

Our director (a baritone) will sometimes tell us to be quieter, but not
often.  Most often she only tells us to back off when we're in sections on
the risers.  In regular riser placements we are mostly at the four corners
and don't have an issue.  Right now we are a wee bit short on baris in the
chorus although we have one in the audition process.

Rebecca

> And besides....as a baritone......what do you MEAN I don't have the
> melody. ;)
> I sing lead but have sung a few times as Bari.  It is vocal gymnastics
> most of the time.  I don't have the ear developed to sing it full time
> yet.
>
> When my family has get togethers I do get to sing harmonies because my
> sisters usually only know the lead.  We try all kinds of songs from
> Gospel, Country and the old songs our Grandfather sang.
>
> ________________________________
> From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca Gilbert
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:43 AM
> To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [barbershopquartet] Re: mixed bshop - question for theladies
> quartets
>
>
> I totally agree with that. Last year, there was a quartet trying to form
> and I somehow ended up the lead. We never did get off the ground, but
> even in trying to learn my part for the song we picked, I realized just
> how much work this would be as a lead.
>
> I have sung lead before...not in barbershop.....I replaced a lead that
> left a group and it was really hard for quite a while because I ALWAYS did
> a harmony part. Probably because from a very young age I COULD sing a
> harmony part. Choir masters don't put the kids who can sing harmony on
> the melody, so a lot of time, I don't even really HEAR the melody.
>
> When I was being voice placed in the chorus I'm in, the director was
> wavering between lead, tenor and baritone (I can't quite do bass really).
> I flat out told her I didn't want to be a lead. At the TIME, we were
> short tenors ...only 2 in a chorus of 40...although right now we have 7 in
> a chorus of 50. She asked me what my thoughts about dissonance were. I
> believe that my answer was what made me a baritone. I told her I LOVE the
> dissonant note. I love PUSHING on it it until it resolves. She told me I
> had the *attitude* of a baritone. I had no idea what that meant. After
> about a month, I think I got it. I DO have the attitude of a baritone.
> :)
>
> And besides....as a baritone......what do you MEAN I don't have the
> melody. ;)
>
>> Rebecca and Lee, like most who sing harmony parts, I never realized what
>> was required of the Lead until I started singing that part. Most of us
>> think they just sing away and expect us to keep up or match... and some
>> Leads try unsuccessfully to do just that.
>>
>> I find the biggest problem with Quartet Leads is a refusal to listen to
>> themselves in the blend and take into consideration the vocal qualities
>> /
>> limitations of the others. A Quartet Lead is NOT an easy job... (just
>> remembering HOW you sang it the last time is a problem for some of us
>> older people.) (big smile)
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Bass/Bari/Lead/ Wannabe Tenor
>>
>
> --
>
>
>
>


--

Singing baritone is a lot harder than many people think. As one of our
outside chorus coaches, Jim Bagby, told our chorus recently, baritones
are the brains of the chorus. They need to know that when they are above
the lead they must sing in a lighter head tone - they must be softer
than the leads. When they are below the leads they can be somewhat
louder. When on a fifth, they need to know they can really sing out. And
when they are on that fifth below the lead and just above the root that
the bass has, then they need to sing with more of a bass quality. If
they are an octave above the bass, they really need to back off - not
much of that octave note is needed. When they occasionally have the
third or seventh of the chord, they need to learn to sing high and
light. And always, the baritone's job is to make the bass sound good. As
you can see just from this short bit, baritone is a very difficult part
to sing. You really do have to have brains to be the brains of the
chorus or quartet.

I have sung lead, baritone and bass (and when necessary a poor tenor)
and each of them has a challenge in singing it well. If any of them are
well done, they are not easy to master.

Rebecca Gilbert wrote:
> Basically my strategy as a baritone is to learn my part and BELIVE IN MY
> HEART that I have the melody and sing with the CONFIDENCE that I have the
> melody.  Then I have half a hope of not being knocked off my part.  :)
>
> Our director (a baritone) will sometimes tell us to be quieter, but not
> often.  Most often she only tells us to back off when we're in sections on
> the risers.  In regular riser placements we are mostly at the four corners
> and don't have an issue.  Right now we are a wee bit short on baris in the
> chorus although we have one in the audition process.
>
> Rebecca
--
Sing-cerely & Humm-bly,

John Elving
VP Mus. & Perf.
Editor-in-Cheap, First Place 2008 Online Bulletin
Shrine of Democracy Chorus
2007 BOTY
PROBE VP- Bulletin Editors
Outstanding In Front - Certified Trainer
Certified Standing Ovation Trainer & Reviewer
Rapid City, SD
Email: leaderman@...

--- In barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com, "Rebecca Gilbert"
<rebecca@...> wrote:
>
> Basically my strategy as a baritone is to learn my part and BELIVE IN
MY
> HEART that I have the melody and sing with the CONFIDENCE that I have
the
> melody. Then I have half a hope of not being knocked off my part. :)
>
> Our director (a baritone) will sometimes tell us to be quieter, but
not
> often. Most often she only tells us to back off when we're in sections
on
> the risers. In regular riser placements we are mostly at the four
corners
> and don't have an issue. Right now we are a wee bit short on baris in
the
> chorus although we have one in the audition process.
>
> Rebecca
>
> > And besides....as a baritone......what do you MEAN I don't have the
> > melody. ;)
> > I sing lead but have sung a few times as Bari. It is vocal
gymnastics
> > most of the time. I don't have the ear developed to sing it full
time
> > yet.
> >
> > When my family has get togethers I do get to sing harmonies because
my
> > sisters usually only know the lead. We try all kinds of songs from
> > Gospel, Country and the old songs our Grandfather sang.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebecca
Gilbert
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:43 AM
> > To: barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [barbershopquartet] Re: mixed bshop - question for
theladies
> > quartets
> >
> >
> > I totally agree with that. Last year, there was a quartet trying to
form
> > and I somehow ended up the lead. We never did get off the ground,
but
> > even in trying to learn my part for the song we picked, I realized
just
> > how much work this would be as a lead.
> >
> > I have sung lead before...not in barbershop.....I replaced a lead
that
> > left a group and it was really hard for quite a while because I
ALWAYS did
> > a harmony part. Probably because from a very young age I COULD sing
a
> > harmony part. Choir masters don't put the kids who can sing harmony
on
> > the melody, so a lot of time, I don't even really HEAR the melody.
> >
> > When I was being voice placed in the chorus I'm in, the director was
> > wavering between lead, tenor and baritone (I can't quite do bass
really).
> > I flat out told her I didn't want to be a lead. At the TIME, we were
> > short tenors ...only 2 in a chorus of 40...although right now we
have 7 in
> > a chorus of 50. She asked me what my thoughts about dissonance were.
I
> > believe that my answer was what made me a baritone. I told her I
LOVE the
> > dissonant note. I love PUSHING on it it until it resolves. She told
me I
> > had the *attitude* of a baritone. I had no idea what that meant.
After
> > about a month, I think I got it. I DO have the attitude of a
baritone.
> > :)
> >
> > And besides....as a baritone......what do you MEAN I don't have the
> > melody. ;)
> >
> >> Rebecca and Lee, like most who sing harmony parts, I never realized
what
> >> was required of the Lead until I started singing that part. Most of
us
> >> think they just sing away and expect us to keep up or match... and
some
> >> Leads try unsuccessfully to do just that.
> >>
> >> I find the biggest problem with Quartet Leads is a refusal to
listen to
> >> themselves in the blend and take into consideration the vocal
qualities
> >> /
> >> limitations of the others. A Quartet Lead is NOT an easy job...
(just
> >> remembering HOW you sang it the last time is a problem for some of
us
> >> older people.) (big smile)
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >> Bass/Bari/Lead/ Wannabe Tenor
> >>
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
I have 25 emails in my spam box regarding Mixed quartet. Al members who
want to answer this question in numbers should email the individual
directle. If this precist I will be a past yahoo member. Dir. Vero
Beach.

Baritone is the part you don't realize you hear as well.  We had a new
baritone last year and when she had stepped out to the washroom, when she
came back, she whispered to me that she couldn't hear the baritones so we
should be louder and I told her not to worry, we were being heard.  You
miss us when we aren't there.  When I was at Harmony Camp as a counsellor
last summer in Columbus, OH, the baritones were feeling a bit unloved so
the director had the other 3 parts sing, then add the baritones and
suddenly everyone realized just how important they are.

You know why?  Lead gets the melody (usually).  Tenor goes above that
(usually).  Bass usually gets the root, sometimes the 5th and less often
the 3rd of the chord.  Baritones get a note that "doesn't sound bad with
the other three".  If you, as baritone, feel like you get the leftovers,
it's because you do.  As a clasically trained singer, at first, baritone
parts drove me nuts as I am a sight singer.  I've mostly given up reading
from the paper and learn from the CD now.  While the notes are often the
harmony I would pick out of the air, I certainly wouldn't be doing the
vocal gymnastics that I am usually called upon for.  Of course, sometimes
the baritone part is impossible on its own and any issues we are having a
section will suddently resolve when we get with the rest of the chorus.


Rebecca


> Singing baritone is a lot harder than many people think. As one of our
> outside chorus coaches, Jim Bagby, told our chorus recently, baritones
> are the brains of the chorus. They need to know that when they are above
> the lead they must sing in a lighter head tone - they must be softer
> than the leads. When they are below the leads they can be somewhat
> louder. When on a fifth, they need to know they can really sing out. And
> when they are on that fifth below the lead and just above the root that
> the bass has, then they need to sing with more of a bass quality. If
> they are an octave above the bass, they really need to back off - not
> much of that octave note is needed. When they occasionally have the
> third or seventh of the chord, they need to learn to sing high and
> light. And always, the baritone's job is to make the bass sound good. As
> you can see just from this short bit, baritone is a very difficult part
> to sing. You really do have to have brains to be the brains of the
> chorus or quartet.
>
> I have sung lead, baritone and bass (and when necessary a poor tenor)
> and each of them has a challenge in singing it well. If any of them are
> well done, they are not easy to master.
>
> Rebecca Gilbert wrote:
>> Basically my strategy as a baritone is to learn my part and BELIVE IN MY
>> HEART that I have the melody and sing with the CONFIDENCE that I have
>> the
>> melody.  Then I have half a hope of not being knocked off my part.  :)
>>
>> Our director (a baritone) will sometimes tell us to be quieter, but not
>> often.  Most often she only tells us to back off when we're in sections
>> on
>> the risers.  In regular riser placements we are mostly at the four
>> corners
>> and don't have an issue.  Right now we are a wee bit short on baris in
>> the
>> chorus although we have one in the audition process.
>>
>> Rebecca
> --
> Sing-cerely & Humm-bly,
>
> John Elving
> VP Mus. & Perf.
> Editor-in-Cheap, First Place 2008 Online Bulletin
> Shrine of Democracy Chorus
> 2007 BOTY
> PROBE VP- Bulletin Editors
> Outstanding In Front - Certified Trainer
> Certified Standing Ovation Trainer & Reviewer
> Rapid City, SD
> Email: leaderman@...
>
>


--

Why? What's the problem? This is a quartet discussion group. This is
about quarteting and barbershop.

You might try switching to digest rather than individual emails.

John



--- In barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Terhune" <singindan@...>
wrote:
>
> I have 25 emails in my spam box regarding Mixed quartet. Al members
who
> want to answer this question in numbers should email the individual
> directle. If this precist I will be a past yahoo member. Dir. Vero
> Beach.
>

Let me get this straight. You think it is inappropriate for people to
discuss barbershop quartetting on the barbershop quartet discussion
list? And you think it *is* appropriate for *you* to tell people to
stop discussing barbershop quartetting on the barbershop quartet
discussion list?

Maybe discussion lists aren't your thing. Or perhaps this isn't the
right group for you. Either way, perhaps becoming "a past yahoo
member" would be better than telling everyone not to use the
discussion list for discussions within the topic of the discussion
list.

Ben McDaniel


On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Dan Terhune <singindan@...> wrote:
>>
> I have 25 emails in my spam box regarding Mixed quartet. Al members who
> want to answer this question in numbers should email the individual
> directle. If this precist I will be a past yahoo member. Dir. Vero
> Beach.
>

Ok...   and that's that. We'll keep the discussions friendly.

Moving on....

John - Moderator


--- In barbershopquartet@yahoogroups.com, "Ben McDaniel"
<benjaminmcdaniel@...> wrote:
>
> Let me get this straight. You think it is inappropriate for people
to
> discuss barbershop quartetting on the barbershop quartet discussion
> list? And you think it *is* appropriate for *you* to tell people to
> stop discussing barbershop quartetting on the barbershop quartet
> discussion list?
>
> Maybe discussion lists aren't your thing. Or perhaps this isn't the
> right group for you. Either way, perhaps becoming "a past yahoo
> member" would be better than telling everyone not to use the
> discussion list for discussions within the topic of the discussion
> list.
>
> Ben McDaniel
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Dan Terhune <singindan@...> wrote:
> >>
> > I have 25 emails in my spam box regarding Mixed quartet. Al
members who
> > want to answer this question in numbers should email the
individual
> > directle. If this precist I will be a past yahoo member. Dir. Vero
> > Beach.
> >
>