http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ernst_von_Dohnanyi_Appreciation/

I'm in love with a new composer, Hungarian composer, pianist and conductor Ernst
von Dohnanyi (1877-1960). First time since Martinu in 2004. Find out why. New
Group: Ernst_von_Dohnanyi_Appreciation

Thanks, Eric.

I was listening last night to my Hagen Quartet version, second disk, last night.
It has on it the 3rd, 5th and 6th Quartets. Magnificent, especially Quartet No
5. Now to go back to the first Takacs Quartet version of the same pieces.

Best wishes
Bruce Gillespie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Bruce R. Gillespie wrote:
>
>...the second Takacs version...are probably out of print...

--- Pierre Csillag wrote:
>
>...Takacs Quartet version (Hungaroton HCD 12502, the copyright
> is from 1984, is it the first or the second version?)...



Pierre and Bruce,

The Hungaroton is the first Takacs recording, when Takács-Nagy and
Ormai were still in the group.  The Decca is the second, from the
mid-1990s (see the wikipedia article on the Takacs Quartet).  The
Decca is still in print, and so far as I can tell, so is the earlier
one.  Search Amazon for Bartok and Takacs and they both pop up.

The Decca is the Takacs version that I have listened to, and I think
it is great.  I have only one complaint and that is with the mixing
and not the playing.  There is a passage in measures 14 - 20 of the
scherzo of the 5th in which some very wonderful pizzicato counterpoint
lines are barely audible.  I never even heard these lines until I
listened to a different recording.  I have not studied this recording
with the score enough to know if any other passages got lost.  But I
still think this is a wonderful performance, and a recording worth owning.

-Eric

Douglas Barbieri asked:

> Would it be instead of a language "accent" would you more mean a
> cultural flavor? Hungarians were raised in Hungarian culture, steeped
> I would imagine in the folk traditions of their country. Bartok was
> heavily influenced by the folk songs of his country, so I would
> imagine Hungarian musicians would best understand that aspect of his
> music and really bring it out.

You are right, Doug. However, a great part of that aspect of the
Hungarian folk music (and of Bartók's music) includes some
peculiarities of the Hungarian language (any composer's music is
influenced by the composer's mother tongue).

In Hungarian,

1. the tonic accent is always on the first syllable of the word.
Consequently, in the music of most Hungarian composers, the measure
bar has a greater importance than in other musics. (the first beat of
each measure is more accentuated). In Bartók's scores the measure
changements have always prosodic reasons, even when there is no text.

2. the lenght (short or long) of vowels, consonants and syllables is
very important, it always vehicles an information. For example:
"halok" means "I'm dying", and "hallok" is "I'm hearing", "hálok"
(with an acute accent over the 'a') means "I'm layed down", and
"hálók" (with an acute accent over the 'a' and the 'o') means "nets".
Consequently, in the music the rhythms are very important, exaggerate
them a bit is far better than make them round.

3. the lenght of a syllable is quasi independent of the tonic accent.
The main idea here is that a tonic accent never lengthens a short
syllable, quite the contrary, the accent slightly shortens the
syllable. For example, an eight note as a first note of a bar
(therefore accentuated), followed by a dotted quarter, must be
slightly shortened, in stead of being lenghtened.


Choose some folk-music-like pieces of Bartók, and hear them with some
Hungarian,then with some not Hungarian performers, and try to hear
what I meant above.


Best wishes, Pierre

Would it be instead of a language "accent" would you more mean a
cultural flavor? Hungarians were raised in Hungarian culture, steeped I
would imagine in the folk traditions of their country. Bartok was
heavily influenced by the folk songs of his country, so I would imagine
Hungarians musicians would best understand that aspect of his music and
really bring it out.

Pierre Csillag wrote:
> rugby52732 asked:
>
>> In what ways are the Emerson Quartet performances "foreign" ?
>
> I didn't speak about the Emerson Quartet, I never heard their Bartók
> quartets. I said the Takács Quartet performs without any foreign
> accent, but I prefer the Alban Berg Quartet in their Bartok quartets
> for other reasons.
>
> With "foreign accent" I wanted to designate when somebody speaks an
> other language than his mother tongue, and when this can be heard. For
> example, I speak English with a "foreign accent" (please tell me the
> right word here).
>
> The Hungarian language has some pecularities, and these pecularities
> can be neatly heard in most of Hungarian composers' music, especially
> in Bartók's. I don't want to say that you must be Hungarian for
> correctly perform Hungarian music, but it's better when you know the
> pecularities of the language. This happens naturally for the Takács
> Quartet, and not completely for the Alban Berg Quartet (I don't speak
> about the others).
>
> If is not clear, please don't hesitate to ask me other questions.
>
> Best, Pierre
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--
R. Douglas Barbieri
doug@...
http://www.dooglio.net/

"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
-The Most Dreaded Enemy of Liberty, James Madison, August 1793

rugby52732 asked:

> In what ways are the Emerson Quartet performances "foreign" ?

I didn't speak about the Emerson Quartet, I never heard their Bartók
quartets. I said the Takács Quartet performs without any foreign
accent, but I prefer the Alban Berg Quartet in their Bartok quartets
for other reasons.

With "foreign accent" I wanted to designate when somebody speaks an
other language than his mother tongue, and when this can be heard. For
example, I speak English with a "foreign accent" (please tell me the
right word here).

The Hungarian language has some pecularities, and these pecularities
can be neatly heard in most of Hungarian composers' music, especially
in Bartók's. I don't want to say that you must be Hungarian for
correctly perform Hungarian music, but it's better when you know the
pecularities of the language. This happens naturally for the Takács
Quartet, and not completely for the Alban Berg Quartet (I don't speak
about the others).

If is not clear, please don't hesitate to ask me other questions.

Best, Pierre

--- In belabartokclub@yahoogroups.com, Pierre Csillag <csillag@...> wrote:
I mean their manner of playing
> Bartok is without any "foreign accent", what is is normal because
> they speak the same mother tongue than the composer.

In what ways are the Emerson Quartet performances "foreign" ?

Thanks.

Rugby

Bruce Gillespie wrote:
> I have the first Takacs Quartet version, the Emerson Quartet
> version, and the Hagen Quartet version.
>
I have a Takacs Quartet version (Hungaroton HCD 12502, the copyright
is from 1984, is it the first or the second version?), and the Alban
Berg Quartet version(EMI CDC 7 47720-21-22, 1987). The Takacs
performance seems very authentical. I mean their manner of playing
Bartok is without any "foreign accent", what is is normal because
they speak the same mother tongue than the composer. However the
Alban Berg Quartet recording is far more expressive, they have a very
great "stage presence". Thanks to them, I discovered lot of things in
the quartets.


All the best, Pierre

Hi, Riwall:

I have the first Takacs Quartet version, the Emerson Quartet version, and the
Hagen Quartet version. All with great strengths, but there is something that
leaps off the grooves of my old LPs that I don't find in versions recorded in
the last thirty years. I am willing to be guided on this one.

I've heard a few of the quartets from the second Takacs version, and they sound
extremely good. I should have bought them when they appeared, but they are
probably out of print.

Best wishes
Bruce Gillespie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bruce,

> Still the most dynamic version I've ever heard,

The Fine Art Quartet release :
http://www.musicandarts.com/CDpages/CD1176.html
is also very fine version.
Listen to it.

> although I have three much more recent versions on CD.

And which are they ?

Best regards,
Riwall


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-----------------------------------------

Hi Eric

> This is (was)
> probably also the 1972 stereo, because the label is Valois, but again,
> they don't specify (nor do the reviewers):

Yes again. "Valois", a dead label, has first published this Vegh 1972
release.

Riwall

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and attachments. This e-mail, including attachments, constitutes non-public
information intended to be conveyed only to the designated recipient(s). If you
are not an intended recipient, please delete this e-mail, including attachments,
and notify us immediately. The unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution or
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-----------------------------------------

Thanks, Riwall, for the link to the original Vegh Quartet version of the Bartok
Quartets. I have these still on LPs, but the LPs are just a bit worn. Still the
most dynamic version I've ever heard, although I have three much more recent
versions on CD.

Best wishes
Bruce Gillespie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Riwall,

Thanks very much for confirming this, and for pointing out the 1954
mono.  I have that one--it clearly indicates 1954 mono, but apparently
there have been multiple releases, and the websites on which I have
found these recordings don't give enough detail.  For example, here is
an Amazon listing of yet another release (unavailable).  This is (was)
probably also the 1972 stereo, because the label is Valois, but again,
they don't specify (nor do the reviewers):

http://www.amazon.com/Bart%C3%B3k-Complete-String-Quartets/dp/B000003I1M/ref=sr_\
1_9?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1228942131&sr=1-9
or
http://tinyurl.com/57bamo

Thanks again,
-Eric



--- In belabartokclub@yahoogroups.com, "Riwall LOUARN"
<riwall.louarn@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Eric,
>
> > I am trying to find the 1972 stereo recording of the string quartets
> > by the Vegh
>
>Quartet.http://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Complete-String-Quartets/dp/B000059OBK/ref\
=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_in
> > or
> > http://tinyurl.com/5fn7aj
>
> YES, this is the 1972 stereo recording.
>
> The mnono recording is on "Music & Arts" label:
> http://www.musicandarts.com/CDpages/CD1169.html
>
> Riwall
>

Hello Eric,

> I am trying to find the 1972 stereo recording of the string quartets
> by the Vegh
>Quartet.http://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Complete-String-Quartets/dp/B000059OBK/ref\
=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_in
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/5fn7aj

YES, this is the 1972 stereo recording.

The mnono recording is on "Music & Arts" label:
http://www.musicandarts.com/CDpages/CD1169.html

Riwall

Hello, Bartok Lovers,

I am trying to find the 1972 stereo recording of the string quartets
by the Vegh Quartet.  There is a CD that seems readily available that
I think is this recording (not the 1954 mono).  Here it is at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Bartok-Complete-String-Quartets/dp/B000059OBK/ref=tag_dpp_\
lp_edpp_ttl_in

or

http://tinyurl.com/5fn7aj

Anyone out there know which recording that is?  I'd appreciate any
information on how to locate the 1972 stereo recording, if the CD
referenced above is not it.

Thanks,
-Eric

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control <http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Lose%20control.htm>
Snow White queen
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Snow%20White%20queen.htm>
The only one
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/The%20only%20one.htm>  Weight
of the world
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Weight%20of%20the%20world.htm\
>  Your star <http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Your%20star.htm>
Evanescence Fallen Going under
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Evanescence%20Fallen%2001%20-\
%20Going%20under.htm>  Bring me to life
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Bring%20me%20to%20life.htm>
Everybody's fool
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Everybody's%20fool.htm>
Haunted <http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Haunted.htm>  Hello
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Hello.htm>  Imaginary
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Imaginary.htm>  Missing
[bonus]
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Missing%20[bonus].htm>  My
immortal <http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/My%20immortal.htm>
My last breath
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/My%20last%20breath.htm>
Taking over me
<http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Taking%20over%20me.htm>
Tourniquet <http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Tourniquet.htm>
Whisper <http://www.settenote.eu/entertainment/pop/Whisper.htm>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone,
 
Sorry about the email about the personal invitation. It was for a networking
group and it went to our group by mistake. Everyone is still a member of the
group.
 
I have a friend of mine in Hungary at the moment. I am hoping that he is able to
bring back an item from the Bela Bartok Memorial House in Budapest for me if he
is able to get there. Apparently the house is going to be closed from 28th July
for about a month. He is visiting some family up until about the 20th July so it
will not give him very much time as he is showing his children who were born in
Australia his homeland.
 
He is also going to collect an item from the Christian Museum in Estagom if
possible for my husband. I am looking forward to hearing his stories about
Hungary on his return to Australia.
 
I hope to hear more news from our group. Everything has been quiet lately.
 
Take care,
 
Christine


       Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. www.yahoo7.com.au

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Christine:

I'm a bit puzzled. I thought I was already in the club, although I haven't
posted for some time.

Best wishes
Bruce Gillespie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone,
 
Sorry about the last message. That was not meant for the group.
 
I am very remiss for not contacting the group before this. I have not been well
recently and I am still having a battle with my health. I am hoping that things
will resolve themselves soon.
 
I am revisiting the Bartok Album by the Hungarian/Transylvanian folk group
Muzsikas. I have downloaded the tunes into my mobile phone which I use as a mini
I-Pod. I  have a part-time job and I often listen to the music while travelling
to and from work on the train. I have also downloaded music by an Australian
group, The Transylvaniacs. They have a website which you can find by doing a
Google search.
 
I must go now as I have an early start at work tomorrow.
 
Welcome to the new members of the group.
 
Sincerely,
Christine Gleeson
Co-group Moderator


       Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
www.yahoo7.com.au/mail

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Personal invitation from Christine Gleeson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone,

I just joined the group this evening...thanks for having me!

I'm giving a concert in Highlands Ranch, CO on May 2, and I'm singing Bartok's
Eight Hungarian Folksongs in the original Hungarian.  I have a friend in Hungary
doing word-for-word translations for me, but it's taking awhile, so I was
wondering if anyone knew of a place where I could find a good online translation
in the meantime.  Please let me know!

Thanks very much,
Gabrielle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm doing a clear out and wondered if anyone would be interested in
this book ? It's Selected Writings of Zoltan Kodaly, originally 1964
first English translation 1974 , hardcover (linen) 226 pages.   Even
has a built in siolk bookmark.  Main sections - On Folk Music, on
Bartok and opther (about 35 pages of Bartok written 1918 to 1961), on
Music Education and on his own music.  It's in great condition.


Anne
anne.ozorio@...

On 30 Dec 2007 at 6:37, adrianldball wrote:

> From Dr David Wright's article on what makes a great composer?
>
> Bartók's music is highly original.
>
> He never composed an off-colour piece.

Be glad that Bartok gets off so lightly, unlike Britten, Chopin,
Elgar and others. In defence of the site that publishes him, some
articles do get removed but you can search his own website.




Anne
anne.ozorio@...

And the Piano Sonata:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB_-vPlMNYk

First half above; rest also there in "related videos."

Rugby

Of the 2nd Piano Concerto:

http://tinyurl.com/2zumqr

Same site has Schiff in the 3rd.

Rugby

adrianldball schrieb (30.12.2007 07:37):
>>From Dr David Wright's article on what makes a great composer?

I did a quick google search, and I suppose this is the article you
are referring to:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/Greatcomposers/Greatcomposers.html

I think we should ask ourselves: Is this really a great essay? ;-)

Kind regards, Roland

From Dr David Wright's article on what makes a great composer?

Bartók's music is highly original.

He never composed an off-colour piece.

He did not use sequences. A sequence is the same phrase or idea that
is repeated and builds up to a climax or resolution. The theme in the
first movement of Shostakovich's Symphony no. 7 is an obvious example
and I suppose Ravel's Bolero is another but it is a very poor piece.
As my friend, the composer John Veale, has often pointed out Elgar
was hopeless at sequences. His never got anywhere and it was just a
device to lengthen his already overlong music. It is just laziness.

There is no pomp or ostentation; no unvaried repetition; nothing
maudlin or cloying and no boring convention.

His music is never overblown as in Schubert (for example, the
Symphony no. 9 and some of the Piano Sonatas), Mahler, and Bruckner.

Bartók was not into padding. He regarded music as a craft where every
detail counted and where no note that did not naturally evolve was
discarded.

He did not use devices which only serve as time-spinning. He would
have agreed with Stravinsky that ostinati were ineffective in
contrapuntal writing.

Bartók did not write any sets of variations. The writing of
variations can also be a lazy way of writing music. Once you have the
theme you have all the building blocks. It is just laziness.

While I agree that the first half of the quartet is
arguably Beethoven's greatest and most original
composition, I will attempt to make that observation
relevant to this Bartok group by mentioning that
Bartok's First String Quartet was said to be inspired
by it.

I also agree about the anticlimactic nature of much
music after starting with Beethoven. One has to
redefine what one means by and expects from music to
properly advance from Beethoven to Bartok.

--- adrianldball <adrianldball@...> wrote:

> I've been listening to Beethoven's String Quartet in
> C# minor, Op. 131
> while following the score. Is this not the greatest
> piece of music ever
> written? I believe Schubert remarked, "After this,
> what is left for us
> to write?" I notice that I have a lot in common with
> Beethoven. His
> favourite food was macaroni cheese & he enjoyed a
> good coffee. I
> wouldn't advise a newcomer to classical music to
> start with Beethoven
> because other music then sounds like an anticlimax.
>
>
>



      
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I've been listening to Beethoven's String Quartet in C# minor, Op. 131
while following the score. Is this not the greatest piece of music ever
written? I believe Schubert remarked, "After this, what is left for us
to write?" I notice that I have a lot in common with Beethoven. His
favourite food was macaroni cheese & he enjoyed a good coffee. I
wouldn't advise a newcomer to classical music to start with Beethoven
because other music then sounds like an anticlimax.

From the Diary of a Fly, for piano

From All Music Guide: As one might conclude from the headnote for this
piece. Bartók attempts here to depict the actions of a fly caught in a
cobweb, from the fly's perspective -- i.e., as related from his diary.
The composer revealed there are buzzing sounds depicted that signify
the fly's desperation to escape. In the end, he does.

Has anyone else heard this piece?