so i am 30 and stopped singing at 13, when i was a professional boy
soprano solist who performed across the east coast, kennedy center,
wolf trap,etc, magic flute, chichester psalms, etc.  the other day,
after not singing for years, i listened to a tape of myself singing
the psalms and found that i could still sing the notes without a
problem.  my voice has definitely changed and my speaking voice is
normal, i guess, but i was somewhat shocked that i could still sing
the boy soprano part.  is this rare?  if so, how does one go about
exploring becoming trained as a countertenor?  is it something worth
checking out?

>> Message: 1
>    Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 21:19:11 -0000
>    From: "chehawstation" <chehawstation@...>
> Subject: hmmmm
>
> so i am 30 and stopped singing at 13, when i was a professional boy
> soprano solist who performed across the east coast, kennedy center,
> wolf trap,etc, magic flute, chichester psalms, etc.  the other day,
> after not singing for years, i listened to a tape of myself singing
> the psalms and found that i could still sing the notes without a
> problem.  my voice has definitely changed and my speaking voice is
> normal, i guess, but i was somewhat shocked that i could still sing
> the boy soprano part.  is this rare?  if so, how does one go about
> exploring becoming trained as a countertenor?  is it something worth
> checking out?


I am another former boy soprano who can still sing in that range, though my
speaking voice is on the deep side.

I'd suggest just sing for now, find a good and understanding teacher who
will help you develop your voice without harming or pigeonholing it, and let
the voice dictate where it will end up.   I was a high soprano for a while,
then dropped a bit so that I thought I would end up alto, and now I am back
to mezzo soprano, and I still don't know where I will end up, I just turned
40.

-Perseus

-Perseus

hello everyone,
     I am a new member here.  I am doing a small class presentation on
castrati and countertenors.  It has to be 15 minutes long.  I think I
want to devote my 8 minutes on sample audios and videos.  The rest I
am thinking of the history of castrati and countertenors.  any
suggestions.  thanks

There is an audio file of Alessandro Moreschi ("the last castrati")
at http://www.worldzone.net/music/singingvoice/castrati.html

The Moreschi recording is, of course, a valuable bit of history,
which we all are grateful for, I'm sure.  However, I personally find
it excrutiating to listen to.

I'd like to believe that the voice of the castrati was not something
to apologize for but to marvel at.

Opera lovers, be sure to check out Calton Higginbotham's
wonderful
site at http://www.bassocantante.com/  What happy memories it
brought back of my Florence Foster Jenkins record and so many
others. http://www.bassocantante.com/opera/index.html

I quite like it.  Many nuances to a voice, as I like
to say.  I especially like the power found in the
numbers listed as "Sistine Chapel Choir", as you can
hear more than just Moreschi singing as far as
castrati go. (There weren't many, but those aren't
women or counter-tenors- I'll tell ya that!)  And as
always- you have to "hear between the lines" of
historical time, style, etc. to hear the voice itself.
And yes- who knows what we could hear if Moreschi
would've had digital dolby surround sound on Bose
speakers..... But oh well!

JG
--- barr1951 <barr1951@...> wrote:
> There is an audio file of Alessandro Moreschi ("the
> last castrati")
> at
>
http://www.worldzone.net/music/singingvoice/castrati.html
>
> The Moreschi recording is, of course, a valuable bit
> of history,
> which we all are grateful for, I'm sure.  However, I
> personally find
> it excrutiating to listen to.
>
> I'd like to believe that the voice of the castrati
> was not something
> to apologize for but to marvel at.
>
>

I have tried to go to Amazon to hear a portion of the sistine chapel
singers of the past, but cannot find it.  Does anyone have a link so
that I can hear the choir?

Jd
--- J G <Nathan1097@...> wrote:
> I quite like it.  Many nuances to a voice, as I like
> to say.  I especially like the power found in the
> numbers listed as "Sistine Chapel Choir", as you can
> hear more than just Moreschi singing as far as
> castrati go. (There weren't many, but those aren't
> women or counter-tenors- I'll tell ya that!)  And as
> always- you have to "hear between the lines" of
> historical time, style, etc. to hear the voice itself.
> And yes- who knows what we could hear if Moreschi
> would've had digital dolby surround sound on Bose
> speakers..... But oh well!
>
> JG

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

Joshua:  I'll send you a sample if you like.  Maile me privately at:
freespirit@...

Kylee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Mason" <joshuamason79@...>
To: <castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: [castrati and countertenors] Castrati presentation


> I have tried to go to Amazon to hear a portion of the sistine chapel
> singers of the past, but cannot find it.  Does anyone have a link so
> that I can hear the choir?
>
> Jd
> --- J G <Nathan1097@...> wrote:
> > I quite like it.  Many nuances to a voice, as I like
> > to say.  I especially like the power found in the
> > numbers listed as "Sistine Chapel Choir", as you can
> > hear more than just Moreschi singing as far as
> > castrati go. (There weren't many, but those aren't
> > women or counter-tenors- I'll tell ya that!)  And as
> > always- you have to "hear between the lines" of
> > historical time, style, etc. to hear the voice itself.
> > And yes- who knows what we could hear if Moreschi
> > would've had digital dolby surround sound on Bose
> > speakers..... But oh well!
> >
> > JG
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Hi,

I see there was some talks about Foster Jenkins, and I remember many
have tried to compare her style to Moreschi`s. To be fair to Moreschi,
I just want to say that I find him equal or better than his
contemporary, Nellie Melba - to not even mention Jenkins - Moreschi
is, to be sure, a true Pavarotti (regarding ability to hit the
/correct/ notes)
in comparison..

Hello all, I'm new to this group. Great site by the way.
Straight to the point. Does anyone know where I can purchase a book
of these arias?  Any help would be greatly appreciated. By the way
saw Cecilia Bartoli at the Dorothy Chandler Pavaillion in Los Angeles
and she sang Son Qual Nave as an encore!  AWESOME!

Take care all.

Hello,

I just discovered this list.  I am a bass and a countertenor.  I have
spent most of my life singing bass in church choirs, etc.  I have
always used falsetto at the top end of the bass range and have over
the years gradually expanded my falsetto range.  Recently I decided
to get serious about countertenor, so I joined a choir of men and
boys as a countertenor, and I am taking lessons from the director of
the same choir.  My teacher is a tenor himself but has sung with a
lot of great CT's.

I find that the range is no problem, and my voice blends well with
the CT section in the choir, but as a solo voice I lack the bright,
colorful tone that I hear in good professional CT's.  Does anyone in
the group share my experience of switching to CT after singing bass
for many years? And does anyone have any suggestions on how to bring
more brightness and color to my sound?

By the way, since the question was discussed in so many posts, I am
staight.  To me the part I choose to sing has nothing to do with
sexual orientation, but I do often wonder what people think when they
hear me sing.

Phil

I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of Richard Jose or
Will Oakland? Both were billed at various times as "countertenor"
when they performed & recorded in the early 1900's, but they both
appear to have had naturally very high tenor voices, Jose in
particular having a very unusual androgynous quality. Neither were
classicaly trained singers & the material they recorded (on wax
cylinder!) was predominantly sentimental popular songs of the time,
yet the only parallel to their tone that I can think of would be
Russell Oberlin.

I would be very interested to hear of any other singers that the
group can recommend who could be considered "alto-tenor" i.e. with
natural high range, an extended tenor head voice & well-integrated
chest voice. I have a high tenor voice myself (E3 to E5, not too
wide at the moment!), & it would be nice to hear other voices of
similar technique/range/timbre as I fall somewhat in the gap between
tenor & countertenor... my timbre "too tenor" to be considered
countertenor by most, too "alto" to be considered tenor!

I will post an mp3 file of a wax cylinder recording by Richard Jose,
if anyone is interested... realaudio file of a wax cylinder
recording by Will Oakland can be heard at:

http://www.tinfoil.com/cm-9805.htm#e10163

cheers
Karl P :o)

How about Rogers Covey-Crump?  He is a high tenor that sings some
countertenor parts.  He has recorded a lot of Purcell with The King's
Consort on the Hyperion label.  Also, check out the list of singers
at www.medieval.org/emfaq/performers/countertenors.html.

Phil



--- In castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com, "plipe1"
<plipe1@y...> wrote:
> I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of Richard Jose or
> Will Oakland? Both were billed at various times as "countertenor"
> when they performed & recorded in the early 1900's, but they both
> appear to have had naturally very high tenor voices, Jose in
> particular having a very unusual androgynous quality. Neither were
> classicaly trained singers & the material they recorded (on wax
> cylinder!) was predominantly sentimental popular songs of the time,
> yet the only parallel to their tone that I can think of would be
> Russell Oberlin.
>
> I would be very interested to hear of any other singers that the
> group can recommend who could be considered "alto-tenor" i.e. with
> natural high range, an extended tenor head voice & well-integrated
> chest voice. I have a high tenor voice myself (E3 to E5, not too
> wide at the moment!), & it would be nice to hear other voices of
> similar technique/range/timbre as I fall somewhat in the gap
between
> tenor & countertenor... my timbre "too tenor" to be considered
> countertenor by most, too "alto" to be considered tenor!
>
> I will post an mp3 file of a wax cylinder recording by Richard
Jose,
> if anyone is interested... realaudio file of a wax cylinder
> recording by Will Oakland can be heard at:
>
> http://www.tinfoil.com/cm-9805.htm#e10163
>
> cheers
> Karl P :o)

There's also Jochen Kowalski.  He has a file in the tripod storage site of
the Castrati-History group.

Kylee
----- Original Message -----
From: "pjstapert" <pjstapert@...>
To: <castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 4:51 PM
Subject: [castrati and countertenors] Re: antique alto-tenors...


> How about Rogers Covey-Crump?  He is a high tenor that sings some
> countertenor parts.  He has recorded a lot of Purcell with The King's
> Consort on the Hyperion label.  Also, check out the list of singers
> at www.medieval.org/emfaq/performers/countertenors.html.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> --- In castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com, "plipe1"
> <plipe1@y...> wrote:
> > I was just wondering if anyone else had heard of Richard Jose or
> > Will Oakland? Both were billed at various times as "countertenor"
> > when they performed & recorded in the early 1900's, but they both
> > appear to have had naturally very high tenor voices, Jose in
> > particular having a very unusual androgynous quality. Neither were
> > classicaly trained singers & the material they recorded (on wax
> > cylinder!) was predominantly sentimental popular songs of the time,
> > yet the only parallel to their tone that I can think of would be
> > Russell Oberlin.
> >
> > I would be very interested to hear of any other singers that the
> > group can recommend who could be considered "alto-tenor" i.e. with
> > natural high range, an extended tenor head voice & well-integrated
> > chest voice. I have a high tenor voice myself (E3 to E5, not too
> > wide at the moment!), & it would be nice to hear other voices of
> > similar technique/range/timbre as I fall somewhat in the gap
> between
> > tenor & countertenor... my timbre "too tenor" to be considered
> > countertenor by most, too "alto" to be considered tenor!
> >
> > I will post an mp3 file of a wax cylinder recording by Richard
> Jose,
> > if anyone is interested... realaudio file of a wax cylinder
> > recording by Will Oakland can be heard at:
> >
> > http://www.tinfoil.com/cm-9805.htm#e10163
> >
> > cheers
> > Karl P :o)
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Hey all,

Cool to find another countertenor group! for info and recordings, etc on me
visit www.geocities.com/sopranist

I look forward to contributing and chatting with you all! Feel free to drop me a
line :)

Take care!

Zachary Gordin
Countertenor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hallo Karl,

Yes, please post an mp3 of Joses voice for everyone to hear! Joses
recordings are very interesting both historically and for the
unusual timbre of his voice. I've certainly haven't heard anything
like it.
May I suggest "Too Late"?

cheers
Pål
>
> I will post an mp3 file of a wax cylinder recording by Richard
Jose,
> if anyone is interested... realaudio file of a wax cylinder
> recording by Will Oakland can be heard at:
>
> http://www.tinfoil.com/cm-9805.htm#e10163
>
> cheers
> Karl P :o)

Hi,I am new here,I'm looking
for a man who takes pride in his attention to
detail as far as his sense of style and
outlook on life. I want a man who is
friendly, kind, and a gentleman, basically a
man who knows how to treat a woman, and knows
how a woman should treat him.
Please check my profile out at




http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cuppycake1020/

Can someone tell me what this has to do with music or singing or am I just
the stupid one here?


-------Original Message-------

From: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
Date: 18 February 2004 08:08:08
To: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [castrati and countertenors] Wanna make friends with sexy tall
girl?

Hi,I am new here,I'm looking
for a man who takes pride in his attention to
detail as far as his sense of style and
outlook on life. I want a man who is
friendly, kind, and a gentleman, basically a
man who knows how to treat a woman, and knows
how a woman should treat him.
Please check my profile out at




http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cuppycake1020/


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT






Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castratiandcountertenors/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
castratiandcountertenors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Its what you call yahoogroups spam posts!

JG
--- Alex_777 <Alex_777@...> wrote:
> Can someone tell me what this has to do with music
> or singing or am I just
> the stupid one here?
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 18 February 2004 08:08:08
> To: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [castrati and countertenors] Wanna make
> friends with sexy tall
> girl?
>
> Hi,I am new here,I'm looking
> for a man who takes pride in his attention to
> detail as far as his sense of style and
> outlook on life. I want a man who is
> friendly, kind, and a gentleman, basically a
> man who knows how to treat a woman, and knows
> how a woman should treat him.
> Please check my profile out at
>
>
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cuppycake1020/
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castratiandcountertenors/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> castratiandcountertenors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

Many thanks JG for enlightening me, but is there no moderator to deal with
this type of thing??
Alex

-------Original Message-------

From: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
Date: 18 February 2004 15:54:55
To: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [castrati and countertenors] Wanna make friends with sexy tall
girl?

Its what you call yahoogroups spam posts!

JG
--- Alex_777 <Alex_777@...> wrote:
> Can someone tell me what this has to do with music
> or singing or am I just
> the stupid one here?
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 18 February 2004 08:08:08
> To: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [castrati and countertenors] Wanna make
> friends with sexy tall
> girl?
>
> Hi,I am new here,I'm looking
> for a man who takes pride in his attention to
> detail as far as his sense of style and
> outlook on life. I want a man who is
> friendly, kind, and a gentleman, basically a
> man who knows how to treat a woman, and knows
> how a woman should treat him.
> Please check my profile out at
>
>
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cuppycake1020/
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castratiandcountertenors/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> castratiandcountertenors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


=====
Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

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ADVERTISEMENT






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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not that I know of.  Its a problem in all the yahoo
groups.

JG
--- Alex_777 <Alex_777@...> wrote:
> Many thanks JG for enlightening me, but is there no
> moderator to deal with
> this type of thing??
> Alex
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 18 February 2004 15:54:55
> To: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [castrati and countertenors] Wanna make
> friends with sexy tall
> girl?
>
> Its what you call yahoogroups spam posts!
>
> JG
> --- Alex_777 <Alex_777@...> wrote:
> > Can someone tell me what this has to do with music
> > or singing or am I just
> > the stupid one here?
> >
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: 18 February 2004 08:08:08
> > To: castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [castrati and countertenors] Wanna make
> > friends with sexy tall
> > girl?
> >
> > Hi,I am new here,I'm looking
> > for a man who takes pride in his attention to
> > detail as far as his sense of style and
> > outlook on life. I want a man who is
> > friendly, kind, and a gentleman, basically a
> > man who knows how to treat a woman, and knows
> > how a woman should treat him.
> > Please check my profile out at
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cuppycake1020/
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castratiandcountertenors/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> castratiandcountertenors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Today is the first day of the rest of your life.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castratiandcountertenors/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> castratiandcountertenors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

This appeared in the Spring 2002 issue of THE MUSICAL QUARTERLY.

Years ago, I remember reading a book that said that when a castrato
once sang on stage to a soprano (something like), "My love for thee
is chaste", an audience member replied, "But what else could it be."

Does anyone remember reading this?  If so, do you remember the source?

Sure!

It was Angus Heriot writing about, I think, Giovanni Rubinelli
although I`am not quite sure. At least I can tell for certain it was
Heriot!

A very interesting article.
I agree on almost everything they claim here.

--- In castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com, "Giovanni Manzuoli"
<arquebus1@h...> wrote:
> A very interesting article.
> I agree on almost everything they claim here.

I dont. The author provided no evidence apart from their opinion to
back up what is said....the fact that the author has overlooked
everything else contradicting their opinion and has even out right
made mistakes places, for me anyway, this article in very low stead.


Nathaniel

Come on! Meet a SEX partner right now!
http://www.geocities.com/free_nudist_club/

Bacchantes? lol

Fellow Countertenors,

I am in need of some help.  I am fairly new to the countertenor
territory.  I recently just finished another sememster of vocal
craziness and I am at a conundrum.  Two of the pieces I learned are
Voi, che sapete, and Bel Piacere.  Both of these songs have a high
note of an  F or G.  In warmups, my teacher has me vocalizing to an
Ab.  Well, I had my vocal juries today, and he said that both of
those pieces are not for countertenors.  I want to do material that
is specific for countertenors.  I know of Purcell works, but.. are
there any others?  I am actually looking to perform a setting of Ave
Maria for my graduation recital as a dedication to my mother.  If
anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate it.

Jason

Your examiner sounds like a gimboid.....sing what you like to sing
and if someone tells you countertenors cant do that then you it is
them that has the problem and not you.

Countertenors do quite well in most baroque rep...Handel is
particularly popular.

Nathaniel

--- In castratiandcountertenors@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Pankey"
<jpankeycpht@y...> wrote:
> Fellow Countertenors,
>
> I am in need of some help.  I am fairly new to the countertenor
> territory.  I recently just finished another sememster of vocal
> craziness and I am at a conundrum.  Two of the pieces I learned are
> Voi, che sapete, and Bel Piacere.  Both of these songs have a high
> note of an  F or G.  In warmups, my teacher has me vocalizing to an
> Ab.  Well, I had my vocal juries today, and he said that both of
> those pieces are not for countertenors.  I want to do material that
> is specific for countertenors.  I know of Purcell works, but.. are
> there any others?  I am actually looking to perform a setting of
Ave
> Maria for my graduation recital as a dedication to my mother.  If
> anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate it.
>
> Jason