November 7, 2005

Dear Charlie:

I have wanted to write you for some time.  You will never actually
read this letter; it's about fifty-one years too late for that.  If
you were still alive, though, I'd write this letter to you, so why
should this letter not be written at all?

I have listened to your music for thirty years.  My ears have been
stretched quite a bit in the process.  It might surprise you to know
I've heard the "Universe Symphony."  A fellow named Johnny Reinhard
finally was the one to take the trouble to do what you asked for in
Memo #38.  You would like how it sounds.  You would like Johnny, too.
  He obviously had to have liked you a lot to do what everyone else had
said was impossible. (By the way, they can beat rhythms of 31 or 37
against 41 or 43, now!)

Anyway, I've heard most of what you've written.  I came to the violin
sonatas and songs late.  I love the third sonata, and there are too
many songs to pick out a favorite one, but I have one favorite
performance.  It is you singing, "They Are There!"  You and I have
sung more "duets" together than I can number.

Aside from "Universe," there are so many of your works I love, it's
hard to pick a favorite one there, as well.  "Central Park in the
Dark," "The Unanswered Question," "Hanover Square North," the "Fourth
Symphony," "Decoration Day" and "The Fourth of July."  I know you
weren't thrilled with the "Robert Browning Overture," but it still
works for me.  The second piano sonata is something I revere.  I was
listening to the "Alcotts" this evening, but make no mistake, I listen
to "Emerson," too.

I'm sorry you couldn't compose after a certain point, and that you had
to endure so much ignorance about your music.  How did you deal with
that?  Gustav Mahler, who they say you are supposed to have met, once
said, "My time will come."  Is that the idea that kept you going?  I
know you may have thought that it would only be in a thousand years
when the mailman would be whistling quarter-tone melodies that your
work would be appreciated.  I'm hoping it's sooner than that.  After
all, I can whistle quarter tones and if I join the U.S. Postal Service
your prophecy will be realized 900 years ahead of schedule.

It would please you, I think, to know that I understand much of what
you were trying to do, break the bonds of European musical thought to
create a truly American music, to try to express the "non-C Major-ish"
happenings of the world in things as far removed from C Major as you
can get.  To try to not just innovate harmonically or rhythmically,
but every part of the music, down to the dynamics, form, and texture.

I also understand that there's a limit as to how much I should
understand.  I know you spoke of Emerson's "Rhodora" (one of my
mother's favorite poems, incidentally) in the "Essays Before a
Sonata," and how it was futile to try to trace how and why music was
influenced by an inspiration.  I know, ultimately, it makes no sense
to try to figure out in the technical sense exactly what you were
doing.  That, too, is a European thing to try to do.

I'm sorry I never had the chance to meet you and talk about these
things in person.  I've heard you were a wonderful person.  I know the
story about how you gave the $50 bill to one of your agents because no
one can do well with an empty wallet.  Do you know that agent said to
someone after you did this, "that is a great man"?

You would likely not like how the insurance industry and business in
general has gone.  They have not adopted your attitude that wealth
means greater social responsibility and greater need for philanthropy.
  They do not support the people.  I hope someday they will.  I don't
know if you meant the words to "They are There!" tongue in cheek or
not, but I'm hoping someday we do build a people's world nation.

I considered going into insurance about a year ago, but when I did
some looking into how the firm operated, I deferred.  I have a strong
feeling Ives & Myrick was different.  I'm different, too.  I have a
strong feeling if I had been an agent of yours you would have had
someone to talk about your music with.  I wish I could have done that.
  I know too well what loneliness, what having no one to understand
you, feels like.  No one deserves that, especially when they cared
about others as much as you did.  This is not brown nosing.  I mean it
most sincerely.  Few people ever say things like that to people.  It
should be said more often.

I thought I would go on pages more, but, surprisingly, I think I've
already hit all the topics I wanted to.  Sometimes in correspondence,
less is more.  Before I ended I wanted to say how very glad I am you
were around on this planet for almost eighty years.  You've given me
enjoyment I don't believe any other composer has given me.  I wish
your life had been happier than it was.  I wish you had gotten all the
recognition you deserved, and the respect you deserved.

But, if it makes any difference, you definitely get that recognition
and respect from me.

							 Yours truly,
							 Mike Berest

Hello !!!

Is someone knows the recording of the Trio by the german Fontenay Trio
(Teldec 1989).I have listen this ,and my first impression is very
good,the first mvt is quite fast (3:35) in comparison with others
recordings and the second  and third are very well played,full of
energies.To me it's a very good lecture of work, less romantic than
the Altenberg Trio Wien.The cd is coupled with the Brahms's first
Klaviertrio.

Patrick

Patrick wrote:

>Subject: Piano Trio by FontenayTrio

> Is someone knows the recording of the Trio by the german Fontenay
> Trio(Teldec 1989).I have listen this ,and my first impression is very
> good,the first mvt is quite fast (3:35) in comparison with others
> recordings and the second and third are very well played,full of
> energies.To me it's a very good lecture of work, less romantic than
> the Altenberg Trio Wien.The cd is coupled with the Brahms's first
> Klaviertrio.

That timing for the first movement is indeed fast - most seem to take
around 5-6 minutes! What is there timings on the other movements?

I dearly love this work. It surprises me that not much has been written
about it. I particularly delight in the 2nd movement "TSIAJ" - LOL.
I wonder how many American folk tunes others hear in this movement?

Thanks for your contribution, Patrick!
-Gene

Hello Gene

The total timing of three movements is :

01-Moderato....................3:35
02-TSIAJ.......................5:40
03-Moderato Con Moto..........11:28

I agree with you ,it's all the more surprising because it's the most
recorded chamber work of CEI .
Here is the discography.

1965-Nieuw Amsterdam Trio (Decca)
1966-Beaux Art Trio (from broadscast The library of Congress)
1970-Zukofsky, Kalish, Sylvester (Columbia)
1976-Glazer, Taylor, Harris (VoxBox)
1977-Beaux Art Trio (Phillips)
197?-Folkwang Klaviertrio (OUTSIDER 110)
1987-Pacific Art Trio (Delos)
1988-The Toledo Trio (Musical Heritage Society)
1989-Fontenay Trio (Teldec)
1993-Yo-Yo Ma, Kalish, Lefkowitz (Sony)
1994-Monticello Trio (CRI)
1995-TRio Matisse (AURA-Music)
1996-Israela Margalit, Glenn Dicterow ,Alan Stepansky (EMI)
1998-Trio Animae (Cascavelle)
1998-Osiris Trio (CHANNEL CLASSICS)
1998-The Gemini Piano Trio (The Gemini Piano Trio)
1999-Bartschi, Win-Sinn Yang, Mumelter (Koch Schwann )
1999-Altenberg Trio Wien (Van)
1999-Oberlin Trio (Eclectra)
2000-The Bekova Sisters (Chandos)
2002-Zurcher Piano Trio (Claves)

Patrick

--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Halaburt" <ghal@a...> wrote:
>
> Patrick wrote:
>
> >Subject: Piano Trio by FontenayTrio
>
> > Is someone knows the recording of the Trio by the german Fontenay
> > Trio(Teldec 1989).I have listen this ,and my first impression is very
> > good,the first mvt is quite fast (3:35) in comparison with others
> > recordings and the second and third are very well played,full of
> > energies.To me it's a very good lecture of work, less romantic than
> > the Altenberg Trio Wien.The cd is coupled with the Brahms's first
> > Klaviertrio.
>
> That timing for the first movement is indeed fast - most seem to take
> around 5-6 minutes! What is there timings on the other movements?
>
> I dearly love this work. It surprises me that not much has been written
> about it. I particularly delight in the 2nd movement "TSIAJ" - LOL.
> I wonder how many American folk tunes others hear in this movement?
>
> Thanks for your contribution, Patrick!
> -Gene
>

i forgot

197?-The Cardiff Festival Ensemble (Argo)

--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Petit" <patrpetit@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hello Gene
>
> The total timing of three movements is :
>
> 01-Moderato....................3:35
> 02-TSIAJ.......................5:40
> 03-Moderato Con Moto..........11:28
>
> I agree with you ,it's all the more surprising because it's the most
> recorded chamber work of CEI .
> Here is the discography.
>
> 1965-Nieuw Amsterdam Trio (Decca)
> 1966-Beaux Art Trio (from broadscast The library of Congress)
> 1970-Zukofsky, Kalish, Sylvester (Columbia)
> 1976-Glazer, Taylor, Harris (VoxBox)
> 1977-Beaux Art Trio (Phillips)
> 197?-Folkwang Klaviertrio (OUTSIDER 110)
> 1987-Pacific Art Trio (Delos)
> 1988-The Toledo Trio (Musical Heritage Society)
> 1989-Fontenay Trio (Teldec)
> 1993-Yo-Yo Ma, Kalish, Lefkowitz (Sony)
> 1994-Monticello Trio (CRI)
> 1995-TRio Matisse (AURA-Music)
> 1996-Israela Margalit, Glenn Dicterow ,Alan Stepansky (EMI)
> 1998-Trio Animae (Cascavelle)
> 1998-Osiris Trio (CHANNEL CLASSICS)
> 1998-The Gemini Piano Trio (The Gemini Piano Trio)
> 1999-Bartschi, Win-Sinn Yang, Mumelter (Koch Schwann )
> 1999-Altenberg Trio Wien (Van)
> 1999-Oberlin Trio (Eclectra)
> 2000-The Bekova Sisters (Chandos)
> 2002-Zurcher Piano Trio (Claves)
>
> Patrick
>
> --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Halaburt" <ghal@a...> wrote:
> >
> > Patrick wrote:
> >
> > >Subject: Piano Trio by FontenayTrio
> >
> > > Is someone knows the recording of the Trio by the german Fontenay
> > > Trio(Teldec 1989).I have listen this ,and my first impression is
very
> > > good,the first mvt is quite fast (3:35) in comparison with others
> > > recordings and the second and third are very well played,full of
> > > energies.To me it's a very good lecture of work, less romantic than
> > > the Altenberg Trio Wien.The cd is coupled with the Brahms's first
> > > Klaviertrio.
> >
> > That timing for the first movement is indeed fast - most seem to take
> > around 5-6 minutes! What is there timings on the other movements?
> >
> > I dearly love this work. It surprises me that not much has been
written
> > about it. I particularly delight in the 2nd movement "TSIAJ" - LOL.
> > I wonder how many American folk tunes others hear in this movement?
> >
> > Thanks for your contribution, Patrick!
> > -Gene
> >
>

From: "Gene Halaburt" <ghal@...>
> I dearly love this work. It surprises me that not much has been written
> about it. I particularly delight in the 2nd movement "TSIAJ" - LOL.
> I wonder how many American folk tunes others hear in this movement?
>
> Thanks for your contribution, Patrick!
> -Gene

Agreed! I just listened to this piece the other day. The only version I own
and have ever heard is the Sony Ma/Kalish/Lefkowitz recording. It is an
amazing piece of music and each moment of this piece just seems to draw the
listener in. To my ears it is a masterpiece in that respect. TSIAJ just
blows my mind every time I hear it. There are moments in that movement that
are SO intense, you forget it is a trio. The intensity level is on par with
the most barbaric moments of Bartok's string quartets. The ending is
brilliant as well ;) ! This piece is a middle of the ground Ives piece for
me in terms of accessability and would serve as a good intro to newbies who
are interested in hearing Ives chamber music. This particular recording is
also superbly engineered and sounds excellent.

I have also been playing the second string quartet a bunch lately and I'm
starting to finally get a grasp on the first movement (Juilliard). If find
myself needing to fully concentrate in order to stay with that one. It is
the same with Emerson. Those two pieces just kick my ass sometimes and they
are as challenging a listen to my ears as Ives gets. Both TSIAJ and the
Arguments, both which share a similar "spirit" and approach, actually are
pretty accessible to me, much more so than Discussions for example. Not that
I'm completely thrown for a loop with that movement, but it does challenge
my mind. Brilliant music that rewards repeated listenings, for sure. Anybody
agree/disagree?

I just ordered the following and am looking forward to hearing these:

Concord/Hamelin (Hyperion)
Psalm 90/Dale Warland Singers
Ives Symphonies and Orchestral Sets/von Dohnányi/Decca Double

Also thinking about picking up RBO/Gould/Chicago disc. Worth it and/or
essential? (I *LOVE* the RBO if that helps).

Going to give the Universe (JR) another spin today. It's gonna take a while
with this one!

Frankie

Perhaps all or many of you already know this, but have just heard that A.Litton
with his Dallas S.O. is busy recording all the Ives symphonies (for Hyperion, I
think).  He has just been interviewed on the Beeb as he's over here to conduct
Britten's "Billy Budd" - which will be broadcast live by BBC - I thnik on 10th
December.  Tony

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes Tony, i have learned this new in the Ives Newsletter

"In the Can
During 2004–05 Andrew Litton and The Dallas Symphony have recorded
the four numbered symphonies of Ives in their critical editions for
eventual release by Hyperion."

with another future release:

"Ives songs for Naxos
In May and June 2005, Naxos recorded at Yale University's Sprague Hall
the complete songs (182 in this case) of Charles Ives. Sixteen
singers, current or past Yale vocal students, were selected for the
project by Doris Yarick-Cross and accompanied by three pianists. All
the songs were recorded in Ives Society critical editions (including
H. Wiley Hitchcock's recent 129 Songs edition). Naxos plans for a
release of the 4- to 5-CD set in 2006."

Patrick




--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "tony cole" <tony@c...> wrote:
>
> Perhaps all or many of you already know this, but have just heard
that A.Litton with his Dallas S.O. is busy recording all the Ives
symphonies (for Hyperion, I think).  He has just been interviewed on
the Beeb as he's over here to conduct Britten's "Billy Budd" - which
will be broadcast live by BBC - I thnik on 10th December.  Tony
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Great news!!!

Frankie




Yes Tony, i have learned this new in the Ives Newsletter

"In the Can
During 2004-05 Andrew Litton and The Dallas Symphony have recorded
the four numbered symphonies of Ives in their critical editions for
eventual release by Hyperion."

with another future release:

"Ives songs for Naxos
In May and June 2005, Naxos recorded at Yale University's Sprague Hall
the complete songs (182 in this case) of Charles Ives. Sixteen
singers, current or past Yale vocal students, were selected for the
project by Doris Yarick-Cross and accompanied by three pianists. All
the songs were recorded in Ives Society critical editions (including
H. Wiley Hitchcock's recent 129 Songs edition). Naxos plans for a
release of the 4- to 5-CD set in 2006."

Patrick

Could someone explain to me what is meant by an Ives "critical edition"?

Thank you.  Johnny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Johnny

I think the Ives Society corrects the mistakes made by the previous
editors of the first editions of the Symphonies - Sinclair corrects
Roque Cordero for the First, Elkus corrects Henry Cowell and Lou
Harrison for the Second, Singleton corrects Henry Cowell and Lou
Harrison for the Third, and Sinclair corrects  Kirkpatrick for the Fourth.
To me, it doesn't matter ,for example Gould still remains the best
performer of the First Symphony with or without critical edition .

Patrick

--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
> Could someone explain to me what is meant by an Ives "critical edition"?
>
> Thank you.  Johnny
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I see, Patrick.  So this means that "critical edition" only refers to Ives
compositions that were previously published with obvious errors.

Johnny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes exactly Johnny.

--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
> I see, Patrick.  So this means that "critical edition" only refers
to Ives
> compositions that were previously published with obvious errors.
>
> Johnny
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello

Recently i have listened a recording of American Chorus music by the
Tanglewood Festival Chorus conducted by John Oliver (DG 2530 912 dated
of 1978) with Elliott Carter, Jacob Druckman and Aaron Copland.They
are three psalms composed by Ives ,the 24th , the 67th, and the Psalm
90. To me it's a very good performance of these works, even if it's
not the same quality than the Gregg Smith's version. The Tanglewood
Festival Chorus has performed the chorus part in the Ozawa's version
of the Fourth Symphony. John Oliver had also recorded "The Celestial
Country" (Northeastern NOR CD 226).
At the difference of Gregg Smith's,i don't find the  quarter-tone
glissandi in Psalm 90 ,but the Chorus is very homogeneous and solid in
his reading of the psalms. Is someone knows this recording ?

Patrick

Last night I heard the Nashville Symphony play Ives'
Third Symphony. It was the first time I'd heard the
"shadow lines" that have been talked about on this
list and elsewhere. At the risk of dismaying Mike :)
I'll say that I can understand why a conductor might
want to pick and choose among them, or omit them
entirely. They sounded out of place to my ears, too
close to the foreground and distracting. Maybe if they
had been able to bring a pond on stage and position
the shadowing musicians on the other side of it for
the performance, it would have worked better.
(actually the closing chimes _were_ offstage, but not
the shadows)  I'd like to see someone actually do
that.

In other ways, though, it was a fine, enjoyable
performance, if not quite as self-assured as their
rendition of the Brahms 1st. Towards the end of the
last movement, they brought out the cello tenor line
of "Just As I Am" _way_ out, kind of like a reed solo
on the organ accompanied by salicionals. Any further
out and it would have overbalanced, but you could
still hear everything, and for me it drew attention
not just to the melody but to the harmonies and the
extent that Ives had altered them for this passage.
Interesting.

Also on the program was John Adams' "My Father Knew
Charles Ives" which has a few echos of Ives music
(marching bands in the first movement, a dance band a
la the 4th Symph comedy in the second) but otherwise
is vintage Adams, and good fun too.

-David See




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

I have the Boston Baroque recording of the B minor
Mass. Some of the solo singing is too operatic for my
taste, and when I read about the Andrew Parrott
version which uses only two singers per part, I went
to amazon and checked out the samples and was very
impressed. I prefer the vibrato-less singing of the
historically minded performances. Does anyone here
have any favorite  historic(as in approach) recordings
of the B minor mass?

My favourite is the Harnoncourt recording with Concentus Musicus Wien,
with Helen Watts, Max von Egmund and Kurt Equiliz, now on Elektra/WEA.
You may hear snippets at the Amazon site:

<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/B000000SOD/qid=1132692763/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-1341244-4662551?
v=glance&s=classical>

-Gene

It seems that once you have one to a part, it is easier and more rewarding to
use the Werckmeister III tuning to further distinguish the contrapuntal
lines.  B Minor is actually quite indistinguishable from equal tempeament, as it
turns out.  The reference for the key is quite modern, therefore.

It is through modulation from here that the music gets a bit more angular and
dissonant, but quite a bit more consonat than modern ears have been trained
to expect.

Vibrato servies to hide the blemishes of equal temperament, while totally
eradicating the distinctions of Werckmeister III.

With all the recent talk on Bach's keyboard tunings, few if any have ventured
into the appropriate tunings for his large ensemble pieces.  Since they still
use organs (if not 2 organs as with the St. Matthew's Passion), Werckmeister
III truly is remarkable.  Each of 39 musical intervals is 6 cents apart from
its nearest pitch, and vibrato is often that wide, or wider.

Johnny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 22, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Douglas Jordon wrote:

> I have the Boston Baroque recording of the B minor
> Mass. Some of the solo singing is too operatic for my
> taste, and when I read about the Andrew Parrott
> version which uses only two singers per part, I went
> to amazon and checked out the samples and was very
> impressed. I prefer the vibrato-less singing of the
> historically minded performances. Does anyone here
> have any favorite  historic(as in approach) recordings
> of the B minor mass?

Parrott, or Leonhardt. The former is (or used to be) in a bargain box
set with the St John passion and two short oratorios.


Kirk
                     Co-author of: Podcasting Pocket Guide
                       http://www.mcelhearn.com/ppg.html
                 -        -        -        -        -        -
               Read my blog: Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com
            Musings, Opinion and Miscellanea, on Macs, iPods and more
        Kirk McElhearn | Chemin de la Lauze | 05600 Guillestre | France

Last weekend, I put together a compilation of Ives recordings for a
new friend of mine who loves music--but who has never heard Ives.
Since he's comfortable with unusual music, I decided that the
compilation would be one that made no concessions for the beginner,
made no attempt to make Ives' music especially palatable or
conventional. In short, I decided to make a compilation that--to my
way of hearing--represents Ives at his very best, even it meant
throwing my buddy right in the "deep end of the pool."

After mulling a while, I decided a good introduction would take three
discs: one of orchestral music, one of solo & chamber music, and one
of vocal & choral music.  I finished the first two; the vocal and
choral disc isn't finished yet.  But I thought I'd share what I've
come up with so far.

Disc 1: Orchestral Music
1. The Fourth of July from "Holidays Sym" [MTT, Chicago S0]
2. The Pond (Remembrance) [Bernas, Music Projects/London]
3. Orchestral Set No. 1: Three Places [Sinclair, Orchestra NE]
4. The Unanswered Question [MTT, San Francisco Sym]
5. Set for Theatre Orch [Sinclair, Orchestra NE]
6. From the Steeples and the Mountains [Larkin, London Gabrieli Brass]
7. Symphony No. 4 [MTT, Chicago SO]
TT: 78:19

Disc 2: Piano & Chamber Music
1. Piano Sonata No. 2: Concord [M.-A. Hamelin, Hyperion version]
2. Sonata No. 4 for Violin & Piano: Children's Day at Camp Mtg
[Fulkerson & Shannon]
3. Piano Trio [Monticello Trio]
TT: 79:40

The final disc will include Psalm 90, General Booth, and a bunch of
other songs.

A good introduction, I think.  It's hard to narrow it all down to a
few disc.  But it's fun to think about! ;-)

What do you think?

Scott

Looks pretty good so far, Scott - some may quibble about your choice of
recordings, but Charley's music will come through just fine........However, I do
think it's pretty important just which performers you choose for the solo songs
- a mixture of singers might be best, and I would certainly suggest that mixture
includes de Gaetani, Alexander and Finley (and perhaps an early Boatwright
[Helen that is] from Overtone 7) - Well done, Tony.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Scott Mortensen
   To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 6:40 PM
   Subject: [charlesives] A Compilation of Ives Recordings


   Last weekend, I put together a compilation of Ives recordings for a
   new friend of mine who loves music--but who has never heard Ives.
   Since he's comfortable with unusual music, I decided that the
   compilation would be one that made no concessions for the beginner,
   made no attempt to make Ives' music especially palatable or
   conventional. In short, I decided to make a compilation that--to my
   way of hearing--represents Ives at his very best, even it meant
   throwing my buddy right in the "deep end of the pool."

   After mulling a while, I decided a good introduction would take three
   discs: one of orchestral music, one of solo & chamber music, and one
   of vocal & choral music.  I finished the first two; the vocal and
   choral disc isn't finished yet.  But I thought I'd share what I've
   come up with so far.

   Disc 1: Orchestral Music
   1. The Fourth of July from "Holidays Sym" [MTT, Chicago S0]
   2. The Pond (Remembrance) [Bernas, Music Projects/London]
   3. Orchestral Set No. 1: Three Places [Sinclair, Orchestra NE]
   4. The Unanswered Question [MTT, San Francisco Sym]
   5. Set for Theatre Orch [Sinclair, Orchestra NE]
   6. From the Steeples and the Mountains [Larkin, London Gabrieli Brass]
   7. Symphony No. 4 [MTT, Chicago SO]
   TT: 78:19

   Disc 2: Piano & Chamber Music
   1. Piano Sonata No. 2: Concord [M.-A. Hamelin, Hyperion version]
   2. Sonata No. 4 for Violin & Piano: Children's Day at Camp Mtg
   [Fulkerson & Shannon]
   3. Piano Trio [Monticello Trio]
   TT: 79:40

   The final disc will include Psalm 90, General Booth, and a bunch of
   other songs.

   A good introduction, I think.  It's hard to narrow it all down to a
   few disc.  But it's fun to think about! ;-)

   What do you think?

   Scott






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "tony cole" <tony@c...> wrote:
>
> Looks pretty good so far, Scott - some may quibble about your
choice of recordings, but Charley's music will come through just
fine........However, I do think it's pretty important just which
performers you choose for the solo songs - a mixture of singers might
be best, and I would certainly suggest that mixture includes de
Gaetani, Alexander and Finley (and perhaps an early Boatwright [Helen
that is] from Overtone 7) - Well done, Tony.
--------

Yes, I completely agree with you, Tony, about including a broad range
of singers.  No single singer can fully encompass Ives' enormous
range of songs.  (I guess I'd say that DeGaetani comes closest--for
me!)  Along with her, I also plan to include Roberta Alexander, Helen
Boatwright, William Sharp, Paul Sperry, Mary-Ann Hart, Susan Narucki,
Adrienne Albert and James Tenny. Not sure about Finley.  Maybe.  I
find him most convincing in the more straightforward lieder, and I'm
not sure that I'd include any a distilled compilation like this one.

Forgot to mention that I also want to include Stoki's version
of "Lincloln" the Great Commoner."  And maybe the "Three Harvest Home
Chorales" too.

...Like I said before, fun to ponder.
Scott

Hello

Scott, don't forget the Psalms (especially the Psalm 90).

Patrick

--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Mortensen"
<Scottkmort@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "tony cole" <tony@c...> wrote:
> >
> > Looks pretty good so far, Scott - some may quibble about your
> choice of recordings, but Charley's music will come through just
> fine........However, I do think it's pretty important just which
> performers you choose for the solo songs - a mixture of singers might
> be best, and I would certainly suggest that mixture includes de
> Gaetani, Alexander and Finley (and perhaps an early Boatwright [Helen
> that is] from Overtone 7) - Well done, Tony.
> --------
>
> Yes, I completely agree with you, Tony, about including a broad range
> of singers.  No single singer can fully encompass Ives' enormous
> range of songs.  (I guess I'd say that DeGaetani comes closest--for
> me!)  Along with her, I also plan to include Roberta Alexander, Helen
> Boatwright, William Sharp, Paul Sperry, Mary-Ann Hart, Susan Narucki,
> Adrienne Albert and James Tenny. Not sure about Finley.  Maybe.  I
> find him most convincing in the more straightforward lieder, and I'm
> not sure that I'd include any a distilled compilation like this one.
>
> Forgot to mention that I also want to include Stoki's version
> of "Lincloln" the Great Commoner."  And maybe the "Three Harvest Home
> Chorales" too.
>
> ...Like I said before, fun to ponder.
> Scott
>

Can anyone recommend a recording of this where the singer sounds
perfectly natural with both the music and the words? I just got through
listening to:

Sam Ramey
Ted Puffer
Gerald Finley
Roberta Alexander
Thomas Stewart
Marni Nixon
Paul Sperry

And find none completely satisfying (yes, they all have some good
points!). Maybe this is one of Charlie's songs that should remain, as
he said "in the leaf."  Does anyone have another vocal rendition he/she
considers totally satisying? Of the ones above, if forced to choose,
I would probably choose the Thomas Stewart or the Marni Nixon - just a
personal choice.
-Gene

I know four other vocal renditions.

Nicolas Isherwood - Not convincing ,he sings out of tune, but i think
it's unintentional.
Henry Herford - Too mannered, it's a misinterpretation with the spirit
of this song.
Charles Van Tassel - His dutch accent is very disturbing.
Thomas Hampson - Accompagnied with an orchestra,is very good ,but not
natural.

Like you Gene, my favorite is Thomas Stewart - and Thomas Hampson
despite his affected style.

Patrick

--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Halaburt" <ghal@a...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a recording of this where the singer sounds
> perfectly natural with both the music and the words? I just got through
> listening to:
>
> Sam Ramey
> Ted Puffer
> Gerald Finley
> Roberta Alexander
> Thomas Stewart
> Marni Nixon
> Paul Sperry
>
> And find none completely satisfying (yes, they all have some good
> points!). Maybe this is one of Charlie's songs that should remain, as
> he said "in the leaf."  Does anyone have another vocal rendition he/she
> considers totally satisying? Of the ones above, if forced to choose,
> I would probably choose the Thomas Stewart or the Marni Nixon - just a
> personal choice.
> -Gene
>

Agree that none of the recordings seems to hit C.R. off quite right.......as
I've mentioned before, the best (most natural) performance I've ever heard was
Charles Greenwell live at the Wigmore Hall, but that was more than 30 years ago!
Tony
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Gene Halaburt
   To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:00 PM
   Subject: [charlesives] Favourite Recordings-Charlie Rutlage


   Can anyone recommend a recording of this where the singer sounds
   perfectly natural with both the music and the words? I just got through
   listening to:

   Sam Ramey
   Ted Puffer
   Gerald Finley
   Roberta Alexander
   Thomas Stewart
   Marni Nixon
   Paul Sperry

   And find none completely satisfying (yes, they all have some good
   points!). Maybe this is one of Charlie's songs that should remain, as
   he said "in the leaf."  Does anyone have another vocal rendition he/she
   considers totally satisying? Of the ones above, if forced to choose,
   I would probably choose the Thomas Stewart or the Marni Nixon - just a
   personal choice.
   -Gene





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Hello

Is someone can tell me which are the best book about CEI and his music.
Charles Ives and his Music, by Henri & Sydney Cowell ?
Charles Ives: A Life with Music, by Jan Swafford ?
Charles Ives: The Ideas Behind the Music, by J Peter Burkholder ?
Charles Ives Remembered, by Vivian Perlis ?
or another.

Patrick

I've read them all and they all have merit for different reasons -- there
are also a few others in the works -- Ives is such a complex subject,
especially since we can't interview him, that no one source of info is the
last word --

ms


At 05:19 PM 12/2/05, you wrote:

>Hello
>
>Is someone can tell me which are the best book about CEI and his music.
>Charles Ives and his Music, by Henri & Sydney Cowell ?
>Charles Ives: A Life with Music, by Jan Swafford ?
>Charles Ives: The Ideas Behind the Music, by J Peter Burkholder ?
>Charles Ives Remembered, by Vivian Perlis ?
>or another.
>
>Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 05:19 PM 12/2/2005, Patrick wrote:


>Is someone can tell me which are the best book about CEI and his music.
>Charles Ives and his Music, by Henri & Sydney Cowell ?
>Charles Ives: A Life with Music, by Jan Swafford ?
>Charles Ives: The Ideas Behind the Music, by J Peter Burkholder ?
>Charles Ives Remembered, by Vivian Perlis ?
>or another.

I do not have the Burkholder book, but have the others you mention, as well as:

Charles Ives Memos - Edited by Kirkpatrick
American Composers on American Music, edited by Henry Cowell
Charles Ives and Aaron Copland, by Daniel Felsenfeld
and Essays before a Sonata (and other writings), by CEI, edited by Howard
Boatwright.

The Swafford "biography" is, in my opinion, very inadequate. We very much
need a really
first rate biography of the great man. Something like the Cairns biography
of Berlioz, or the
Carroll biography of Korngold.

Cheers to all.
-Gene
PS. I delighted this afternoon, in the Mondriaan Quartet's recording on
Etcetera (KTC 1169).
Gorgeous playing!

Patrick - My take on this question is that no one book yet written is
sufficient........I still warm to the Cowells' book because it was the first one
I read (though I did have Wilfrid Meller's marvellous "Music in a New-Found
Land" beforehand).  The "Memos", Stuart Feder's biography, "An Ives Celebration"
ed. by Hitchcock & Perlis which distils stuff from the Centennial
Conference-Festival in 1974, "Essays before a Sonata", Rossiter's "C.Ives and
the American Mind", are all worthwhile - the only book I keep as a reminder of
the worst sort is Wooldridge's notorious "From the Steeples and Mountains"  Tony
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Patrick Petit
   To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:19 PM
   Subject: [charlesives] The Best Books on Charles Ives


   Hello

   Is someone can tell me which are the best book about CEI and his music.
   Charles Ives and his Music, by Henri & Sydney Cowell ?
   Charles Ives: A Life with Music, by Jan Swafford ?
   Charles Ives: The Ideas Behind the Music, by J Peter Burkholder ?
   Charles Ives Remembered, by Vivian Perlis ?
   or another.

   Patrick






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