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Fractal Tunes   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #11851 of 11894 |
Re:Stirring the fractal pot...

Hi Will,

That's an interesting thought. It might be a bit like those L-system trees with
flowers and leaves, like the ones you can make with my Virtual Flower program:
http://www.robertinventor.com/software/virtualflower/index.htm

The fractalness would come from the way a movement is structured
overall, with various levels of construction, and the themes would be
like the flowers and leaves bringing out that structure at the final level
of the fractal layer - well except the fractal structure if considered
rhythmically
to some extent may extend to within a theme as well.

I think that many tunes have a rhythmic fracticality and a good example
would come from dance music. Example, because my relatives play
them all the time, I hear a lot of scottish folk music - fiddle tunes
etc - and they are often very fractal in structure with each bar
usually in two halves which answer each other, then
bars group in twos as "call and answer" rhythmically,
those then fall in to four bar units with the two halves answering each
other, and the four bar units often make up an eight bar section of the tune
in a similar fashion. The tune may repeat that eight bar section twice,
followed by another eight bar section similarly constructed
that concludes the tune.

In the call and answer, there is a build up of melodic tension during the
call part, that is then released during the answer, but not completely,
until it is all finally released at the end of the last answer at the slowest
level.

I find you often get that in tunes, to the extent that if you
have a seven bar tune, especially if it is repeated a couple of times,
it can sound intersting and "unusual", I think because it breaks the
usual fractal structure we are used to hearing in tunes.

L-systems:.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-system

Robert


> To what degree would anybody consider Mozart's 41st symphony
fractal? It's constructed from very few microscopically small
musical units. Could one say that the level of fractal intensity is
a standard measure of excellence in Western Common Practice music?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Thu Oct 2, 2008 8:31 am

robert_inven...
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Message #11851 of 11894 |
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Hi All, This is from Harlan Brothers, that I got directly as the group owner. He just joined, by the way. ... Hi, Phil. Robert Walker just pointed me to this...
pjfjacks
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Sep 27, 2008
1:15 am

... sites on the subject of fractal music other than his own as "the worst kind of nonsense." ... Whether or not they are your words, you chose to present them...
v_e_n_h_a_r_i_s
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Sep 27, 2008
3:38 am

Perhaps we need to call a truce here and let Harlan speak a bit, and perhaps all mend some fences.... Phil J....
PhilJackson
pjfjacks
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Sep 27, 2008
3:55 am

I've nothing further to say on this subject Phil, other than to add this final point... Robert Walker and I have both alluded to something previously that I ...
v_e_n_h_a_r_i_s
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Sep 27, 2008
4:47 am

Hi, Not being a native English speaker it still seems to me that "Fractal music" and "Music based on fractals" are two different matters. Best, Lauri Gröhn ...
Lauri Grohn
grohn45
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Sep 27, 2008
3:17 pm

Hi Lauri, Yes, I think everyone would agree if you take extreme examples, some music is obviously fractal however you draw the line, well certainly my cantors...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Sep 28, 2008
11:40 am

OK. My guess is that our collective time is better spent making music regardless of how we individually choose to classify it. I will try to clarify some...
harlan.brothers
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Sep 28, 2008
11:46 pm

"I hope this helps to clarify things". Which precisely illustrates my point, Harlan. All over your web-site you assume that such clarification is necessary...
Phil Thompson
v_e_n_h_a_r_i_s
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Sep 29, 2008
5:41 am

Phil T, Take a deep breath and do not do this. An argument over terms is just a silly thing.... Phil J....
PhilJackson
pjfjacks
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Sep 29, 2008
5:55 am

Dear Phil, The term fractal music means what anyone wants it to mean, not what an academic wants to make it. Nobody has a monopoly on it, nor should they,...
Lawrence Ball
lawrence2001uk
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Sep 29, 2008
7:08 am

I think, or hope we all can agree to disagree at times on the particulars of some term or another. If we all agreed 100% of the time and thought identically,...
PhilJackson
pjfjacks
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Sep 30, 2008
2:24 am

Hi, Phil (T). I nothing about you other than the fact that you are talented and passionate about your music. You should probably listen to your friends, take...
harlan.brothers
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Sep 30, 2008
3:26 am

... I did my first experiments 1988 and some results of those are available on my pages. The techniques is not the point but the music generated without too...
Lauri Gröhn
grohn45
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Oct 1, 2008
5:26 am

Hi all, I have a question for Lauri, Phil T, Phil J, Rober W, Dr. Brothers or anyone who wants to answer, can any of you identify a fractal music by listening...
jacky schreiber
jackysch2000
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Oct 1, 2008
12:13 pm

... I have never heard any real fractal music. Does it even exist? Of course my SW can generate music from any fractal picture, but it is not fractal music. ...
Lauri Gröhn
grohn45
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Oct 1, 2008
12:30 pm

To what degree would anybody consider Mozart's 41st symphony fractal? It's constructed from very few microscopically small musical units. Could one say that...
Will Grant
willgrant2
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Oct 1, 2008
4:53 pm

Hi Will, That's an interesting thought. It might be a bit like those L-system trees with flowers and leaves, like the ones you can make with my Virtual Flower...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Oct 2, 2008
8:31 am

Hi There, This one is fractal by almost any definition - well the rhythm certainly. The pitch also - that's assume you treat the pitch axis much as another...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Oct 1, 2008
11:27 pm

Sorry, correction to that last e-mail - though probably it is obvious anyway just in case it gets you confused: The similarity is that if you play the tune...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Oct 1, 2008
11:28 pm

BTW just want to make very clear. I don't in any way think that the Tune Smithy fractal tunes are the only musical analogues of a visual fractal. Clearly there...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Oct 1, 2008
11:48 pm

Hi, Jacky.   First, a quick correction - I am not a Ph.D.  Perhaps the previous derisive talk of me as an "academic" type gave you the wrong...
Harlan Brothers
harlan.brothers
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Oct 2, 2008
12:25 am

Yes don't do this, truth prevails. Honestly I think a lot of it is that he is new to the field and just wasn't aware of the work done. When I first wrote FTS...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Sep 29, 2008
11:47 am

Hi Phil ... mid 1980s, used a mensuration canon. It's a piece I have always loved and made several versions of over the years, but never released on a fractal...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Sep 29, 2008
11:29 pm

Just another thought, maybe it will help. I anyway don't think of fractal as a value judgement, any kind of a way of deciding whether the music is better or...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Sep 30, 2008
12:47 am

Nice thoughts, Robert. I don't think we need to develop a scale of "fracticality" as if we were measuring a hurricane or earthquake. It is what it is. Just...
PhilJackson
pjfjacks
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Sep 30, 2008
3:15 am

Hi Phil, I'd say that I have two "hats" as it were. With my mathematical hat on then I'm very interested in the fractal structure behind the music, make tunes...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Oct 2, 2008
8:00 am

Here are some examples of the fractal tune sloth canons: http://www.robertinventor.com/software/fractal_music_Sloth_canons/index.htm With the first three...
Robert Walker
robert_inven...
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Nov 10, 2008
9:00 pm
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