OK, FWIW, I've listened to all the show twice (and will listen againon the
flight to NYC today). I did not realize that Greg had mixed thetracks from FOH &
audience feed. Jeez, what an incredible job!


To me (a noob at even the idea of putting tracks together for alive show and
only a theoretical notion of phase cancellation, etc.),the show sounded, well,
*live* (duh) but thin (?) compared to someother live shows I've got. So maybe
that is what David is saying inpoints (4) and (5).


As for The Fire Balloons, at the moment, and I need to review thismore, I prefer
the second take. It is tighter, and captures the flavorof the piece. FWIW.


Thanks to Greg for putting this together. No matter what, I'mkeeping all of it.
I gotta tell you guys, it brought tears to my eyeswhen Mike told the audience
I'd beaten tongue cancer. I sure hopeso, and want to let you all how much hope
that little bit of stage talkgave me. I just. won't. know. until maybe even as
late as 2011 ifthe surgery and treatment worked. I try not to think about it,
butall of us who have encountered the Big C know that we live in akind of shadow
during early remission. It lasts years, and I am oneof the lucky ones since its
is only 2-3 years instead of 5+.


It really helps to hear things like that. Again. And again. Selfishly,it
made DS'08 very special to me, and you guys (that means Jeannie,too) made the
week like one of those "Make a Wish" deals. Shit. I'mstartin' to cry again.
Anyway, thanks.


OK. Gotta finish packin' to go to NYC.


Bless you all,


Slate


--- On Mon, 6/1/09, Greg Hurley <siriusbliss@...> wrote:

From: Greg Hurley <siriusbliss@...>
Subject: Re: [differentskies] AUDIO FROM DIFFERENT SKIES 2008
To: differentskies@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 4:08 AM
























       It would be very easy to go back in and take out the audience - which may
effect stereo spread and phase considerations (as well as EQ, which I really
didn't use much of anyways).



re: my piece 'Embedded Soul' - the jury is still out until I listen closely a
few more times.



Greg



*****



____________ _________ _________ __

From: D. K. Herpich <tepmuseq@yahoo. com>

To: differentskies@ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:56:25 PM

Subject: Re: [differentskies] AUDIO FROM DIFFERENT SKIES 2008



--- Greg H. wrote:

> I look forward to everyone's comments and

> recommendations.  I know I have mine :)



First off, I want to thank Greg for the hours of hard work he's done on this,
and for the enthusiasm he's brought to bear on the project.



Since downloading the files for review, I've been pondering the mix of the show
(board feed + audience feed) for a few days, and chatting off-list with a few
people about what I see as the pros and cons of the combination.



Both Mike and Greg have pointed out in the StillStream chat that there's been
little comment, so I suppose I need to say my two cents' worth.



In the end, I'm sorry to say that I'm just not a big fan of the combined concert
mix, for several reasons:



1) high audience noise levels throughout; for applause, the audience feed is
great, but during the music I find it very distracting due to the high amount of
feet shuffling, pages being fumbled, etc.



2) some very extreme phase issues (most noticeable to me during Metlay's
voiceovers)



3) distorted peaks on the right channel at many points



4) a fairly extreme stereo spread that sometimes seems to me to leave a bit of a
hole in the center



5) an EQ from the resulting combination which sounds, to my admittedly untrained
ears, as being boomy and short on mid-range or "presence" in places



6) lots of incidental pops and clicks (which may not be attributable
specifically to the audience feed, of course)



For all these reasons, my personal opinion is that we'd be better off sticking
to the board mix alone during the pieces.  But I happily sit back down and open
the floor to further discussion on the matter.



Now, getting down to my choice as the leader of a piece...



I've compared the rehearsal version of the track I led, "Clock Blocker," to the
concert mix.  The rehearsal is good, but not as good, and has some audio
problems due to CPU problems I was having at the time.



So I want to go with the concert version.  But I would like to use a version
that has only the board mix, without the audience feed.



=====

David Herpich

tepmuseq@yahoo. com

Emerald Adrift - electronic music to annoy your robots

http://www.myspace. com/emeraldadrif t

"The Blue Flower" - free album download

http://earthmantra. com/theblueflowe r

Zen Caffeine - ambient radio with an edge

http://www.stillstr eam.com/schedule .php

=====



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Jonathan Mills wrote:
> I just. won't. know. until maybe even as late as 2011
> if the surgery and treatment worked. I try not to think
> about it, but all of us who have encountered the Big C
> know that we live in a kind of shadow during early
> remission. It lasts years, and I am one of the lucky
> ones since its is only 2-3 years instead of 5+.


My father's cancer has been in remission for 12 years this summer.

In his case, his tumor was initially dicovered after he'd been unable to shake
what he thought was the flu, for about two or three weeks.  In that sense, you
could say that getting "the flu" saved his life, thanks to a careful doctor (the
third or fourth he went to for help).

I can certainly recall that in the first few years, each time he felt a little
under the weather for a day or two, he was worried that it was the disease
coming back.  Of course, even minor bugs can be very serious when you're in the
early stages of recovery.

But as the years go by, your strength and vigor slowly regroup, and that shadow
of fear starts to recede as things get back on track.

As an observer of the ups and down of the last 12 years, my best advice for you
is to do your best to keep focused on your personal goals.  The more you find
something to occupy and motivate yourself with the things you love to do, the
more I believe your body will fight to stay healthy.

Best wishes to you on your upcoming travels, and here's to the plan of sharing a
celebratory dinner with you in 2016 or thereabouts, to mark your first 10 of
many years of victory over the shadow.  It'll also make a good excuse for us to
organize another electronic music festival.  ;-)



=====
David Herpich
tepmuseq@...
Emerald Adrift - electronic music to annoy your robots
http://www.myspace.com/emeraldadrift
"The Blue Flower" - free album download
http://earthmantra.com/theblueflower
Zen Caffeine - ambient radio with an edge
http://www.stillstream.com/schedule.php
=====

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Mills <shamaniaq@...> wrote:
>
> It really helps to hear things like that. Again. And again. Selfishly,it
made DS'08 very special to me, and you guys (that means Jeannie,too) made the
week like one of those "Make a Wish" deals. Shit. I'mstartin' to cry again.
Anyway, thanks.
>

Heat, dirt, dust, scorpions, tarantulas, and a plethora of synth-heads.  If you
can survive a week of that you can survive anything.

Ivan

Ivan's description reminds me of a certain Englishman post-doc, very proper in
appearance and diction, but slightly eccentric in demeanor.  This was in the
physics department at the university where I did my undergrad.

He worked for the Cosmic Ray Astro-Physics group (a/k/a the CRAP group), and
they periodically went to the Australian outback for month-long research outings
using high altitude balloons to poke through the thinner ozone layer there.

One evening when he was packing for the trip, I noticed his golf bag in the back
of his car.  I remarked that golf would be a good way to  pass the time.  He
explained the the clubs were also useful for keeping the camp clear of scorpions
and other such unpleasant critters.  He distained using woods for these tasks
("too messy"), but specifically said the he liked using a pitching wedge for
scorpions, because it gave them "the right amount of loft".

The mental image I have of Alan lining up his shot remains fresh to this day.


--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, "Ivan" <ivancu@...> wrote:
>
> --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Mills <shamaniaq@> wrote:
> >
> > It really helps to hear things like that. Again. And again. Selfishly,it
made DS'08 very special to me, and you guys (that means Jeannie,too) made the
week like one of those "Make a Wish" deals. Shit. I'mstartin' to cry again.
Anyway, thanks.
> >
>
> Heat, dirt, dust, scorpions, tarantulas, and a plethora of synth-heads.  If
you can survive a week of that you can survive anything.
>
> Ivan
>

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, "wjm_medic" <wjm2@...> wrote:
>
> He explained the the clubs were also useful for keeping the camp clear of
scorpions and other such unpleasant critters.  He distained using woods for
these tasks ("too messy"), but specifically said the he liked using a pitching
wedge for scorpions, because it gave them "the right amount of loft".
>

I should throw a wedge in the van.  Oddly enough, while I am a horrible golfer,
I'm pretty good at getting the ball out of the sand traps.

I'm definitely getting a UV flashlight though; I had a lot of fun with Mike's
doing evening critter spotting.

Maybe we can have a late night scorpion golf competition.  It would be fun to
see those little glowing bodies flying through the air.  BYOA (Bring your own
Absinthe).

Ivan

Would there be any practical likelihood of using 8- or 16-channel
sound at Different Skies?  My Capybara running Kyma software does
exciting spatialization stuff and outputs 8 channels on high-end DA or
digital.  If there are other Kyma users in the group, we might be able
to do some amazing spatial effects, linking with OSC or something like
that.

I do have a new Paca, but I'm not planning on bringing it; its
responsiveness when driven by the EWI has been a disappointment. It would
also require bringing another computer and audio interface, and I probably
won't have room for that.

Brian


On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Blue Fire <bluefire@...> wrote:

>
>
> Would there be any practical likelihood of using 8- or 16-channel
> sound at Different Skies? My Capybara running Kyma software does
> exciting spatialization stuff and outputs 8 channels on high-end DA or
> digital. If there are other Kyma users in the group, we might be able
> to do some amazing spatial effects, linking with OSC or something like
> that.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Practical likelihood = 0.00.  One might argue that until the addition of Ivan
and his gear in 2007, our exploitation of good ole' stereo was somewhat
lacking.  Several of us have discussed some kind of surround format from time to
time, but it always comes down to practicality, in general terms.  Also, it is
one thing to play around with surround formats in a closed studio setting where
you get to control most of the variables.  In an organic outdoor amphitheater
setting like Arcosanti, especially when there are people filling it, the
variables become much too complex to make accurate predictions of how surround
will sound on concert night, based on what we perceive to be a "good" with
testing in an empty house.

J3
 

 

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Blue Fire <bluefire@...> wrote:

From: Blue Fire <bluefire@...>
Subject: [differentskies] 8-channel at Arcosanti?
To: differentskies@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 4:05 AM

















       Would there be any practical likelihood of using 8- or 16-channel

sound at Different Skies?  My Capybara running Kyma software does

exciting spatialization stuff and outputs 8 channels on high-end DA or

digital.  If there are other Kyma users in the group, we might be able

to do some amazing spatial effects, linking with OSC or something like

that.




























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have you tried adding response curves to the hot data fields?

Would you be open to bringing the Paca and letting me link it to my
Capy outs?

Blue



On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Brian Good wrote:

I do have a new Paca, but I'm not planning on bringing it; its
responsiveness when driven by the EWI has been a disappointment. It
would
also require bringing another computer and audio interface, and I
probably
won't have room for that.

Brian




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Moss Parker <moss_parker@...> wrote:
>
> Practical likelihood = 0.00.  One might argue that until the addition of Ivan
and his gear in 2007, our exploitation of good ole' stereo was somewhat
lacking.  Several of us have discussed some kind of surround format from time to
time, but it always comes down to practicality, in general terms.  Also, it is
one thing to play around with surround formats in a closed studio setting where
you get to control most of the variables.  In an organic outdoor amphitheater
setting like Arcosanti, especially when there are people filling it, the
variables become much too complex to make accurate predictions of how surround
will sound on concert night, based on what we perceive to be a "good" with
testing in an empty house.
>

All good points.  The next step would be to try some rear speakers on a reverb
send just to try to engulf the listeners in a wider spacial experience.

True surround live is very cool, but difficult to pull off even in an engineered
room (I've heard it in some casino showrooms and it can work well when the room
is designed for it).  The biggest issue is proper speaker placement, and this is
difficult at Arcosanti.  At some point we could try a bunch of "speakers on
sticks" as surround channels, but that would require some coordination to get
the right speakers, stands, cabling, etc.

Ivan

I like this.  It may be just enough to engulf. ...and phase, etc. shouldn't be
an issue (or heard) especially if it's 95-100% wet.

> All good points.  The next step would be to try some rear speakers on a reverb
send just to try to engulf the listeners in a wider spacial experience.

-jk

"Engulfing the listeners." I feel like The Blob.

A more appropriate term is one that I think I "coined" in 1986 ("ensonifying..
from the verb ensonify n. ensonification).  "Ensonifying the listeners."  No
blob there.

My original use of the term was in a 1986 publication on the biological effects
of in-water ensonification with an ultrasound frequency sonar.  My most envelope
pushing use of the term in my Naval career was in a classified Navy document
describing the biological effects of a SEAL team swimming in a 1KHz sonar field
which produced cavitation (bubbles).  [actual event...  6'1" 280 lb SEAL 1st
Class Petty Officer "Doc, is this going to hurt"?  Me.. "I have no Idea, that's
what we're here to find out.  Look at it this way, fish swim through
ensonification fields that produce cavitation all the time and their blood
doesn''t appear to "boil"...]  I acutally got my first Navy Achievement Medal
for that one, mainly because of the fact that, against the beter judgement of
the SEAL team's LT leader, I dove into the ensonification field with the SEALs. 
My reasoning... If I ended up dead nobody would have to explain the results of a
"mission" that never
  happened:)

J3

--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Joe McMahon <mcmahon@...> wrote:

From: Joe McMahon <mcmahon@...>
Subject: Re: [differentskies] Re: 8-channel at Arcosanti?
To: differentskies@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 4:26 PM

















       "Engulfing the listeners." I feel like The Blob.


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Moss Parker wrote:
>
>
>
> A more appropriate term is one that I think I "coined" in 1986
> ("ensonifying.. from the verb ensonify n. ensonification).  "Ensonifying
> the listeners."  No blob there.

Huh. Without reading the rest of your post I'd have guessed "Ensonifying
   the listeners" involved bludgeoning with a VFX.

Brian

Hmm.  I bought a Mirage in 1985.  Maybe I did unconsciously rip off the root
from Ensoniq.  However, with Joe at DS, if ensonifying the audience with sound
doesn't work, we can always set him loose with his SD-1:)

J3


--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Brian Good <bsgood@...> wrote:

From: Brian Good <bsgood@...>
Subject: Re: [differentskies] Re: 8-channel at Arcosanti?
To: differentskies@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 8:08 PM

















       Moss Parker wrote:

>

>

>

> A more appropriate term is one that I think I "coined" in 1986

> ("ensonifying. . from the verb ensonify n. ensonification) .  "Ensonifying

> the listeners."  No blob there.



Huh. Without reading the rest of your post I'd have guessed "Ensonifying

   the listeners" involved bludgeoning with a VFX.



Brian




























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Moss Parker <moss_parker@...> wrote:
>

You were Message #16666.

That's a power of ten better, in'nit?

Blue Fire wrote:
> Have you tried adding response curves to the hot data fields?
> Would you be open to bringing the Paca and letting me link it to my
> Capy outs?
>
>
> On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Brian Good wrote:
> I do have a new Paca, but I'm not planning on bringing it; its responsiveness
when driven by the EWI has been a disappointment. It would also require bringing
another computer and audio interface, and I probably won't have room for that.
>
Picture Archive Council of America?
Protective Apparel Corporation of America?
People's Anti-Cruelty Association of New Mexico/Albuquerque Animal Rescue?

What's a Paca?

Cheers,

Bill

On 3 Jun 2009, at 15:53, Bill Fox wrote:

> Blue Fire wrote:
>> Have you tried adding response curves to the hot data fields?
>> Would you be open to bringing the Paca and letting me link it to my
>> Capy outs?
>>
>>
>> On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Brian Good wrote:
>> I do have a new Paca, but I'm not planning on bringing it; its
>> responsiveness when driven by the EWI has been a disappointment.
>> It would also require bringing another computer and audio
>> interface, and I probably won't have room for that.
>>
> Picture Archive Council of America?
> Protective Apparel Corporation of America?
> People's Anti-Cruelty Association of New Mexico/Albuquerque Animal
> Rescue?
>
> What's a Paca?

http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Products/Pacarana

I've had the bigger version here for a while now.

It's - an interesting box.

Richard

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Moss Parker <moss_parker@...> wrote:
>
> My original use of the term was in a 1986 publication on the biological
effects of in-water ensonification with an ultrasound frequency sonar.

With J3, the truth is always stranger than fiction.

Ivan

That's my buddy Al.  Al Paca.  Lots of thick, wooly hair.


--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Bill Fox <billyfox@...> wrote:
>
> Blue Fire wrote:
> > Have you tried adding response curves to the hot data fields?
> > Would you be open to bringing the Paca and letting me link it to my
> > Capy outs?
> >
> >
> > On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Brian Good wrote:
> > I do have a new Paca, but I'm not planning on bringing it; its
responsiveness when driven by the EWI has been a disappointment. It would also
require bringing another computer and audio interface, and I probably won't have
room for that.
> >
> Picture Archive Council of America?
> Protective Apparel Corporation of America?
> People's Anti-Cruelty Association of New Mexico/Albuquerque Animal Rescue?
>
> What's a Paca?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
>

For purposes of this discussion, please let me make a distinction
between "surround" and "multichannel."

Let "surround" refer to a sweet-spot listener(s) taking in music and
effects that correlate specifically to moving visuals.  Sounds have to
be in the right place at the right times throughout the apparent
field.  I'd guess that setting up this sort of surround theater sound
at Arcosanti would be impossible for us.

And please for the moment let "multichannel" refer to listeners evenly
distributed in a field hearing color and vitality in sound, without
needing to assign specific relative placement.  That's easier to do.

Also, just a simple pair of Mackies in a far corner playing bird songs
or lightning could be effective, for example.

Blue



On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Moss Parker wrote:

Practical likelihood = 0.00.  One might argue that until the addition
of Ivan and his gear in 2007, our exploitation of good ole' stereo was
somewhat lacking.  Several of us have discussed some kind of surround
format from time to time, but it always comes down to practicality, in
general terms.  Also, it is one thing to play around with surround
formats in a closed studio setting where you get to control most of
the variables.  In an organic outdoor amphitheater setting like
Arcosanti, especially when there are people filling it, the variables
become much too complex to make accurate predictions of how surround
will sound on concert night, based on what we perceive to be a "good"
with testing in an empty house.

J3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- On Wed, 6/3/09, Blue Fire <bluefire@...> wrote:
Also, just a simple pair of Mackies in a far corner playing bird songs

or lightning could be effective, for example.
Cool, that sounds interesting! Have been wanting to experiment with a
multichannel performance...especially outside traditional uses and ideas!





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Blue Fire wrote:
>
>
>
> Have you tried adding response curves to the hot data fields?

Yeah. I don't think that's the issue. I expected something as modular as
Kyma to be able to work well this way; the Nord Modular (driven by MIDI)
is about as smooth as the original EWI's VC analog synth, and I expected
similar. It may still be possible, if I can dismantle some of the
factory sounds enough to understand where the problem is.

> Would you be open to bringing the Paca and letting me link it to my
> Capy outs?

Depends on how much space/weight allotment I have in my luggage. Won't
know that for awhile.

Brian

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Blue Fire <bluefire@...> wrote:
>
> For purposes of this discussion, please let me make a distinction
> between "surround" and "multichannel."
>
> Let "surround" refer to a sweet-spot listener(s) taking in music and
> effects that correlate specifically to moving visuals.  Sounds have to
> be in the right place at the right times throughout the apparent
> field.  I'd guess that setting up this sort of surround theater sound
> at Arcosanti would be impossible for us.
>

Not impossible, just a bit more difficult.  If and when there is a new roof
structure added we could suspend some rear channels and possibly a center
channel speaker.  The last couple of years the mixing console we've had has
allowed live 4.1 and 5.1 mixes but we haven't tried to do it.  Yet.

4.1 or 5.1 would still allow for multichannel effects as well as giving a
specific sense of location or movement if desired.

One of these days!

Ivan

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Jeannie Allen <earthgirlvibes@...> wrote:
>
> Have been wanting to experiment with a multichannel performance...especially
outside traditional uses and ideas!
>

This brings up another topic; we could have a "sound installation" or two
running at DS.  A couple of speakers (nothing fancy) with either self-running
synths or a recording playing, for example in the tunnel or vaults.

This would greet our guests as the walk from dining land and would start to
immerse them in the DS experience before the event.

Ivan

Ivan wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:differentskies%40yahoogroups.com>, Jeannie Allen
> <earthgirlvibes@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Have been wanting to experiment with a multichannel
> performance...especially outside traditional uses and ideas!
>  >
>
> This brings up another topic; we could have a "sound installation" or
> two running at DS. A couple of speakers (nothing fancy) with either
> self-running synths or a recording playing, for example in the tunnel or
> vaults.
>
> This would greet our guests as the walk from dining land and would start
> to immerse them in the DS experience before the event.

We did that a few years ago. Native Instruments gave away a control-less
version of an ambient-generator synth, and we ran 3 (IIR) instances of
it during dinner, on the main stage.

Brian

--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Brian Good <bsgood@...> wrote:
>
> We did that a few years ago. Native Instruments gave away a control-less
> version of an ambient-generator synth, and we ran 3 (IIR) instances of
> it during dinner, on the main stage.
>

It could be fun playing on the odd acoustics of the tunnel and the vaults.  Just
a thought.

Ivan

...which reminds me that I never finished creating those binaural convolutions
of the vaults that I started 2 years ago :(

Greg

  *****



________________________________
From: Ivan <ivancu@...>
To: differentskies@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 8:24:34 PM
Subject: [differentskies] Re: 8-channel at Arcosanti?





--- In differentskies@ yahoogroups. com, Brian Good <bsgood@...> wrote:
>
> We did that a few years ago. Native Instruments gave away a control-less
> version of an ambient-generator synth, and we ran 3 (IIR) instances of
> it during dinner, on the main stage.
>

It could be fun playing on the odd acoustics of the tunnel and the vaults.  Just
a thought.

Ivan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AFTERGLOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/afterglow
=======================================================================
Afterglow airs from 8:00 am to 9:30 am (EDT/GMT-4:00/ITZ-5:00) every
Thursday morning.  Tune in for a delightful mix of eclectic musical
genres including a healthy dose of Progressive Rock.  Tune in at 91.7
FM or on the internet at http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/WMUH.ram

Tune in for new music from SBB, Ozric Tentacles and more.

Richard Wentk wrote:
>> What's a Paca?
>>
>
> http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Products/Pacarana
>
> I've had the bigger version here for a while now.
>
> It's - an interesting box.
Ah HA!  So it's the replacement for Capybara?

Cheers,

Bill