So is this thing on?
--
"Instead of spreading my genes I decided to spread some memes" (o.p.)
====================================================================
Mike Metlay * ATOMIC CITY * PO Box 17083 * Boulder CO 80308-0083 USA
metlay@... *  1-800-924-ATOM  * http://www.atomiccity.com

Greets Mike and Paul,

I'm number three on this list!  As head guy of the Soundscapes Concert Series,
I'm interested in fostering other events and seeing other ways of getting things
done.  BTW, when can you come east to play at a Soundscapes?  What arrangements
will you need to come out?  (You can reply to this off-list if you like.)

Mike: some things to consider regarding the current Group Settings:
· Listed in directory
· Open membership
· Unmoderated

With these settings, you're likely to get spammers unless you moderate new users
until they prove themselves to truely be interested in the raison d'etre of this
list.

· Email attachments are permitted

Please turn this off asap.  It's a safety thing.

Cheers,

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <liquidunknown@...>
> *(?) Who, Me or Mike?

BOTH!!

> Actually Bill I haven't completely decided yet, but I
> have a month's paid sabbatical this year and I'm thinking of doing a tour of
> the states
> during that time : The Philly hub (Stars End, Echoes, And Soundscapes... or
> whoever would have me of the bunch... and a southwest thingy Roach,
> Arcosanti, Carty hub.)

I'll take any Saturday night you can give!  (Unless one of my bands is booked,
the hall is unavailable, etc.  The usual things.)  Plus a jam on EMUSIC on a
Thursday if you can would be bliss.

Cheers,

Bill

Hi all! Just joined and wanted to introduce myself.
My name is Giles, and I'm a musicholic. (I'm also a gear slut, but
that's another list)
There, now I feel better.
I wanted to jump in and share a few ideas that I've already talked to
Mike about. Since this thing is in the early stages, feel free to shoot
down anything I suggest, I'm just shooting from the hip here to get
things started.
Firstly, I've been to Arcosanti, stood in the amphitheater, and dreamed
of one day playing there. So I jumped at the idea for this "festival".
Here are my thoughts.
For most/all of us, this event will be far from home. For me, I'd love
it to last more than one day/night. I'd also expect NOT to have a big
turnout from the locals. (Arcosanti is miles from the closest city!)
Therefore, the Okee "retreat" model seems to me to be a good place to
start. I would like the event to last at least a weekend, maybe a full
week if we had enough folks coming. I see it as a serious opportunity to
gather with our peers, and share music, technology, philosophy,
techniques, nature, and maybe a beer or two. I'd love to have
"workshops" given during the day by all who care to share (me, me!!!).
With a crowd as diverse as we are, we could organize the evening
performances into "like" styles, giving everyone a chance to perform a
full show, and giving audience members who can only make it to a single
show the opportunity to hear "their" style of music for a full show.
Depending on which musicians show up, the event could draw an audience
from far away. I'd like to make the trip worthwhile for audience and
musician alike! But even if it's just "US", it will be worth it for me
to meet and jam and talk with others who share the love of electronic
based music.
Like I said, this is off the top of my head. I'd love to hear others
brainstorm and express their vision of what an event like this could
be...Anyone?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peace.
Giles Reaves
East Nashville, TN
http://www.spaceformusic.com/gilesreaves/

Bill, Joe, Greg, Paul, and Giles:

Six of us so far. Just got back from AES, getting life back under
control. Will hear from Joel Timm soon, I hope, making this an
official Arcosanti event. Then we pick a date and we're off to the
races. Will reply to your messages in detail when I get a chance,
maybe tonight maybe later. Thanks for yr patience and don't wait for
me to get chatting.

mike

ps. Good suggestions for group settings, Bill. Did almost all of them.
--
"Instead of spreading my genes I decided to spread some memes" (o.p.)
====================================================================
Mike Metlay * ATOMIC CITY * PO Box 17083 * Boulder CO 80308-0083 USA
metlay@... *  1-800-924-ATOM  * http://www.atomiccity.com

> Hi all! Just joined and wanted to introduce myself.
> My name is Giles, and I'm a musicholic.

(Tens of voices : "Hello Giles")

    (I'm also a gear slut, but > that's another list)

(Tens of voices ; "That would explain the leather chaps with the midi
port......
that IS a midi port right"?)

> There, now I feel better.
> I wanted to jump in and share a few ideas that I've already talked to
> Mike about. Since this thing is in the early stages, feel free to shoot
> down anything I suggest, I'm just shooting from the hip here to get
> things started.

*OK that does it. I am going to have to shoot down the whole "Hi all"
introduction thing. that is just insane behavior and will get you nowhere
bucko. OK???
Other than that no objections.

> Firstly, I've been to Arcosanti, stood in the amphitheater, and dreamed
> of one day playing there. So I jumped at the idea for this "festival".
> Here are my thoughts.
> For most/all of us, this event will be far from home. For me, I'd love
> it to last more than one day/night. I'd also expect NOT to have a big
> turnout from the locals. (Arcosanti is miles from the closest city!)
> Therefore, the Okee "retreat" model seems to me to be a good place to
> start. I would like the event to last at least a weekend, maybe a full
> week if we had enough folks coming.

*I am in total agreement here. Especially in light of the incredibly
reasonable prices
that Mike has mentioned ... we're getting away w/murder costwise. Besides, I
get a months paid sabbatical this year and will have lots of time!  ;-)
Unlike others on the list I have not been there, but was completely blown
away by the look of the place via pics at the website... I can't imagine a
better venue for our music. I've always been of the opinion that this music
requires a certain kind of setting to really support the state of mind the
music produces... This really seems to fit the bill.

     I see it as a serious opportunity to
> gather with our peers, and share music, technology, philosophy,
> techniques, nature, and maybe a beer or two. I'd love to have
> "workshops" given during the day by all who care to share (me, me!!!).
> With a crowd as diverse as we are, we could organize the evening
> performances into "like" styles, giving everyone a chance to perform a
> full show, and giving audience members who can only make it to a single
> show the opportunity to hear "their" style of music for a full show.
> Depending on which musicians show up, the event could draw an audience
> from far away. I'd like to make the trip worthwhile for audience and
> musician alike!

*Now here's where my thoughts will differ from some others..  I've talked to
Mike and now Giles has mentioned it too.... but to my way of thinking
workshops would be a little lower  on the lists of priorities. My view is
let's use this time to generate music!
IF in fact we get enough time I'd like to see a combination of not only solo
or band sets where each person gets to present their own music but almost
equally weighted towards various combinations of impromptu jams... I mean
what an opportunity to balance the best of both worlds.... Now in saying this
I don't mean to exclude the possibility of workshops ... simply to weigh it
more in the direction of generating music.

  I think it would be prudent for us to figure out some parameters ahead of
time to avoid unnecessary clusterf*cks... a couple of thoughts:

1) Is there a main auditorium? How large? What are the possibilities of
having everyone setup in one place ... and then LEAVE it set up there? That
way we can avoid time lost by what would be an almost constant state of setup
/ teardown... I know this is also a can of worms... I'm not married to this
idea just a thought..
I know there would be problems with that scenario too ... anyone else?
Thoughts?

2) Should we have no more than one event at a time? I've noticed some of the
European events will have different bands playing simultaneously in different
parts of the building ... due to mainly time constraints ... well, here is
where we have an advantage if we do in fact get the building for a length of
time. We can let it breathe.
No one would have to miss performances... a relaxed setting where we can also
kick back and BS as well as perform.

3) My guess is that we'll have lots of people there that could perform
different functions... I.E.  Each would have a chance to perform live, then
mix for someone else later.... or lights or whatever else was needed. (If you
can't tell by now I'm pretty much a child of the '60's/'70's... Everyone
pitches in!)
I liked Mike's analogy of it being a kind of woodstock.

     But even if it's just "US," it will be worth it for me
> to meet and jam and talk with others who share the love of electronic
> based music.

*Hell yeah!
While I've envied the Euro their different festivals and Philly their
gatherings and echoes and living room performances. Those are all rather
isolated in the sense that  they are individual performances the upside being
a more focused vision....and on the other end of the spectrum there's the
Tadream gatherings where it is all improvised and the upside is the cross
pollination ... but HERE is a chance to embrace the best of both worlds..
I see Arcostanti as holding serious potential for a creative explosion!

OK, I'll shut up now... I'm suffering from sleep deprivation so I hope my
thoughts are reasonably understandable...
Peace

Poly

Paul Ellis
Binary recordings - www.hypnos.com
"Into the Liquid unknown" out now.

^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~
^~~

"A forest seen from the air is complex and interesting. A single tree is
equally complex. One leaf, even one molecule is endlessly fascinating.
That's how music should be."
Brian Eno

^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~  ^~~    ^~~
^~~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Poly Wrote:
>
>
> > Hi all! Just joined and wanted to introduce myself.
> > My name is Giles, and I'm a musicholic.
>
> (Tens of voices : "Hello Giles")
>
>    (I'm also a gear slut, but > that's another list)
>
> (Tens of voices ; "That would explain the leather chaps with the midi
> port......
> that IS a midi port right"?)

Note to myself: remember to turn off the web-cam at night...

> > There, now I feel better.
> > I wanted to jump in and share a few ideas that I've already talked to
> > Mike about. Since this thing is in the early stages, feel free to shoot
> > down anything I suggest, I'm just shooting from the hip here to get
> > things started.
>
> *OK that does it. I am going to have to shoot down the whole "Hi all"
> introduction thing. that is just insane behavior and will get you nowhere
> bucko. OK???
> Other than that no objections.
>
> > Firstly, I've been to Arcosanti, stood in the amphitheater, and dreamed
> > of one day playing there. So I jumped at the idea for this "festival".
> > Here are my thoughts.
> > For most/all of us, this event will be far from home. For me, I'd love
> > it to last more than one day/night. I'd also expect NOT to have a big
> > turnout from the locals. (Arcosanti is miles from the closest city!)
> > Therefore, the Okee "retreat" model seems to me to be a good place to
> > start. I would like the event to last at least a weekend, maybe a full
> > week if we had enough folks coming.
>
> *I am in total agreement here. Especially in light of the incredibly
> reasonable prices
> that Mike has mentioned ... we're getting away w/murder costwise. Besides, I
> get a months paid sabbatical this year and will have lots of time!  ;-)
> Unlike others on the list I have not been there, but was completely blown
> away by the look of the place via pics at the website... I can't imagine a
> better venue for our music. I've always been of the opinion that this music
> requires a certain kind of setting to really support the state of mind the
> music produces... This really seems to fit the bill.
>
>     I see it as a serious opportunity to
> > gather with our peers, and share music, technology, philosophy,
> > techniques, nature, and maybe a beer or two. I'd love to have
> > "workshops" given during the day by all who care to share (me, me!!!).
> > With a crowd as diverse as we are, we could organize the evening
> > performances into "like" styles, giving everyone a chance to perform a
> > full show, and giving audience members who can only make it to a single
> > show the opportunity to hear "their" style of music for a full show.
> > Depending on which musicians show up, the event could draw an audience
> > from far away. I'd like to make the trip worthwhile for audience and
> > musician alike!
>
> *Now here's where my thoughts will differ from some others..  I've talked to
> Mike and now Giles has mentioned it too.... but to my way of thinking
> workshops would be a little lower  on the lists of priorities. My view is
> let's use this time to generate music!
> IF in fact we get enough time I'd like to see a combination of not only solo
> or band sets where each person gets to present their own music but almost
> equally weighted towards various combinations of impromptu jams... I mean
> what an opportunity to balance the best of both worlds.... Now in saying this
> I don't mean to exclude the possibility of workshops ... simply to weigh it
> more in the direction of generating music.

OK, Poly, lets go for both, although I'm sure the workshops would be few
and far between now that I think about it. More time to JAM!!!


>  I think it would be prudent for us to figure out some parameters ahead of
> time to avoid unnecessary clusterf*cks... a couple of thoughts:
>
> 1) Is there a main auditorium? How large? What are the possibilities of
> having everyone setup in one place ... and then LEAVE it set up there? That
> way we can avoid time lost by what would be an almost constant state of setup
> / teardown... I know this is also a can of worms... I'm not married to this
> idea just a thought..
> I know there would be problems with that scenario too ... anyone else?
> Thoughts?
>
The amphitheater is covered, but otherwise outside - could be a slight
problem leaving stuff out overnight, but who knows. Maybe we could take
turns sleeping with the gear!


> 2) Should we have no more than one event at a time? I've noticed some of the
> European events will have different bands playing simultaneously in different
> parts of the building ... due to mainly time constraints ... well, here is
> where we have an advantage if we do in fact get the building for a length of
> time. We can let it breathe.
> No one would have to miss performances... a relaxed setting where we can also
> kick back and BS as well as perform.

My pref would be not to have simultaneous events - someone always gets
left out. Like you said, at these prices lets spread it out as far as
reasonable to accommodate everyone's needs.
>
> 3) My guess is that we'll have lots of people there that could perform
> different functions... I.E.  Each would have a chance to perform live, then
> mix for someone else later.... or lights or whatever else was needed. (If you
> can't tell by now I'm pretty much a child of the '60's/'70's... Everyone
> pitches in!)
> I liked Mike's analogy of it being a kind of woodstock.

I'm pretty sure egos could be checked at the door, and we would all chip
in a do what was needed. I'm pretty good with cooking pancakes ;)
>
>     But even if it's just "US," it will be worth it for me
> > to meet and jam and talk with others who share the love of electronic
> > based music.
>
> *Hell yeah!
> While I've envied the Euro their different festivals and Philly their
> gatherings and echoes and living room performances. Those are all rather
> isolated in the sense that  they are individual performances the upside being
> a more focused vision....and on the other end of the spectrum there's the
> Tadream gatherings where it is all improvised and the upside is the cross
> pollination ... but HERE is a chance to embrace the best of both worlds..
> I see Arcostanti as holding serious potential for a creative explosion!

Here, here!
>
> OK, I'll shut up now... I'm suffering from sleep deprivation so I hope my
> thoughts are reasonably understandable...
> Peace
>
Sweet dreams

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peace.
Giles Reaves
East Nashville, TN
http://www.spaceformusic.com/gilesreaves/

I agree with everything Giles wrote. I would like to see at least 3 days,
preferably
5 to allow things to really loosen up. Having attended oke this year, it's a
good
model in the sense of being a communal gathering of musicians and music lovers.
I
also thought it might work to have "themes" for the evening concerts, such as
space
music, berlin school, experimental, beat oriented, or whatever depending on the
mix
of performers. In addition to prepared "performances" I hope to see (and
participate
in) jam sessions of every conceivable permutation!
I don't know if Mike or anyone has thought about how the finances might work.
My suggestion is to calculate the total cost up front for the venue, sound,
lighting
etc. and divide that evenly between the participants (musicians). That way no
one
(e.g. Mike or other organizer) needs to take a financial risk. Any revenues
collected
from people who attend can then be used to defray part of the cost.
Perhaps the folks at arcosanti have a standard model for how they run this type
of
event.
I believe this is going to be a great event, and hope/expect that it will turn
into
an annual thing, growing each year as the word spreads. Of course if it gets too
big
it will lose the intimacy that is so appealing.
I will be driving out there from New Jersey with a car or van full of gear and
one or
two bandmates (one sounds definite, the other needs to talk his wife into
letting him
go!)
I'm psyched already and it's still a year away!
egw

Giles Reaves wrote:

> For most/all of us, this event will be far from home. For me, I'd love
> it to last more than one day/night. I'd also expect NOT to have a big
> turnout from the locals. (Arcosanti is miles from the closest city!)
> Therefore, the Okee "retreat" model seems to me to be a good place to
> start. I would like the event to last at least a weekend, maybe a full
> week if we had enough folks coming. I see it as a serious opportunity to
> gather with our peers, and share music, technology, philosophy,
> techniques, nature, and maybe a beer or two. I'd love to have
> "workshops" given during the day by all who care to share (me, me!!!).
> With a crowd as diverse as we are, we could organize the evening
> performances into "like" styles, giving everyone a chance to perform a
> full show, and giving audience members who can only make it to a single
> show the opportunity to hear "their" style of music for a full show.
> Depending on which musicians show up, the event could draw an audience
> from far away. I'd like to make the trip worthwhile for audience and
> musician alike! But even if it's just "US", it will be worth it for me
> to meet and jam and talk with others who share the love of electronic
> based music.
> Like I said, this is off the top of my head. I'd love to hear others
> brainstorm and express their vision of what an event like this could
be...Anyone?

I like the idea of workshops that are also participatory music sessions, perhaps
an opportunity for someone to explore some creative concepts or techniques that
require more musicians than they normally have access to. E.g. the workshop
"leader" could provide some guidelines or instructions (in contrast to a
completely impromptu jam session). Or maybe the workshops could just be "themed"
jam sessions. Lots of interesting possibilities.

I also have a concern about the gear - how much will there be, and can it all
fit
on the stage. Certainly it's best if there can be one setup and one take down.
I get nervous if my gear is out of my sight, so I like the idea of taking turns
sleeping with it!
I would vote against more than one event at a time, at least in the evenings.
Perhaps in the afternoons it would be ok to have multiple small scale things
going on at once.

One thing I wonder about - what if lots of people want to sign up for this?
Should there be a limit on the number, and if so based on what criteria? Do we
want to start posting a "call for artists" or keep it to beyond_em for now?
egw

liquidunknown@... wrote:

> *Now here's where my thoughts will differ from some others..  I've talked to
> Mike and now Giles has mentioned it too.... but to my way of thinking
> workshops would be a little lower  on the lists of priorities. My view is
> let's use this time to generate music!
> IF in fact we get enough time I'd like to see a combination of not only solo
> or band sets where each person gets to present their own music but almost
> equally weighted towards various combinations of impromptu jams... I mean
> what an opportunity to balance the best of both worlds.... Now in saying this
> I don't mean to exclude the possibility of workshops ... simply to weigh it
> more in the direction of generating music.
>
>  I think it would be prudent for us to figure out some parameters ahead of
> time to avoid unnecessary clusterf*cks... a couple of thoughts:
>
> 1) Is there a main auditorium? How large? What are the possibilities of
> having everyone setup in one place ... and then LEAVE it set up there? That
> way we can avoid time lost by what would be an almost constant state of setup
> / teardown... I know this is also a can of worms... I'm not married to this
> idea just a thought..
> I know there would be problems with that scenario too ... anyone else?
> Thoughts?
>
> 2) Should we have no more than one event at a time? I've noticed some of the
> European events will have different bands playing simultaneously in different
> parts of the building ... due to mainly time constraints ... well, here is
> where we have an advantage if we do in fact get the building for a length of
> time. We can let it breathe.
> No one would have to miss performances... a relaxed setting where we can also
> kick back and BS as well as perform.
>
> 3) My guess is that we'll have lots of people there that could perform
> different functions... I.E.  Each would have a chance to perform live, then
> mix for someone else later.... or lights or whatever else was needed. (If you
> can't tell by now I'm pretty much a child of the '60's/'70's... Everyone
> pitches in!)
> I liked Mike's analogy of it being a kind of woodstock.
>
>     But even if it's just "US," it will be worth it for me
> > to meet and jam and talk with others who share the love of electronic
> > based music.
>
> *Hell yeah!
> While I've envied the Euro their different festivals and Philly their
> gatherings and echoes and living room performances. Those are all rather
> isolated in the sense that  they are individual performances the upside being
> a more focused vision....and on the other end of the spectrum there's the
> Tadream gatherings where it is all improvised and the upside is the cross
> pollination ... but HERE is a chance to embrace the best of both worlds..
> I see Arcostanti as holding serious potential for a creative explosion!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Waltzer" <gwaltzer@...>
> I will be driving out there from New Jersey with a car or van full of gear and
one or
> two bandmates (one sounds definite, the other needs to talk his wife into
letting him
> go!)

Any room for me?

Bill

Hey Bill
We'll have to see if we can rent a van large enough to accomodate 4-5 people
plus
gear. If not, then multiple vehicles I suppose. Has Howard expressed any
interest? I
imagine there are other east coasters that might want to make the trip.
Greg

Bill Fox wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Waltzer" <gwaltzer@...>
> > I will be driving out there from New Jersey with a car or van full of gear
and
> one or
> > two bandmates (one sounds definite, the other needs to talk his wife into
> letting him
> > go!)
>
> Any room for me?
>
> Bill

Hey, guys. Thanks for waiting. A few items...

I have been following the email discussion so far and I want to express my
gratitude for
your solidarity on this so far. It sounds like even if we're the only ones to
show up it
will be a great time, and that's all I need to push it forward.

I just sent a second letter to Joel Timm, the organizer for the Colly Soleri
Music
Center, and gave him my tentative date choices (a first and second choice). I am
waiting
to hear back from him as to which will work. If you want to poke at your
respective
calendars, my preferred date set is October 21-27 or thereabouts, or if that
won't work,
September 16-22. The blackout period between Sept 26th and Oct 19th is immovable
due to
my personal and professional commitments, and I am not sure if Arcosanti is even
habitable at night in late October, so I'm eager/worried to hear what Joel says.

As you can see, I've chosen to book the Center for an entire week. From a cost
standpoint, this makes a great deal of sense, as it's essentially "buy five get
two
free" and the savings is minimal for taking four days, and three days isn't
enough. I
will need to make sure that we have access to the rooms we'll need onsite for
that same
week, etc., but first we need hard dates.

As to the format of the event, I rather like the ideas that you all have put
forward,
and agree with most of them. I do not plan on forcing people to choose between
concurrent concerts, since a week is more than enough time to have several
evenings of
entertainment. I would like to offer master classes and workshops during the
day, some
for participants only and a few for visitors to the site (since, if Arcosanti
sponsors
us, we'll need to do something in the daytime for them as well as opening the
concerts
to the public). We could organize evening concerts by theme, and offer
participants the
chance to stay for a day or two or for the whole thing.

"The whole thing" could mean the entire week, dealing with setup and takedown,
or, say,
three main days where most of the activity could take place.

My initial reaction based on conversations with people I've talked to is that as
far as
participation is concerned, the rules should be very simple: Road in your own
gear, do
your own setup, participate in a spirit of cooperation, sleep on the concrete if
you
have to, and road out your own gear when you're done, with or without money
depending on
whether we turn a profit. No exceptions. This may cost us a couple of people (no
names
yet), but I have been told that some folks may come out specifically BECAUSE it
sounds
like a no-pressure way to meet people, drink a lot, and have fun making noise.

I hope to make a weekend trip to Arcosanti sometime before the end of the year,
and suss
out the venue on my own to get an idea of accommodations, sound system, stage
size, and
the like, and estimate what kind of gear we'll need to bring in. In the
meantime, I'll
rely somewhat on what information I can get from Arcosanti, and to an extent on
Giles's
memory of his visit.

I am not limiting invitations to BEMers only; I'm taking it in stages and
offering first
to BEMers and selected outside folks, then expanding a bit until I think we've
hit
capacity. I will try not to turn anyone away, but there's a very real danger of
it all
degenerating into chaos if too many people are trying to make noise at once. I
admit to
some bias as to who gets invited first; Team Metlay members, even those not on
the BEM
list, are getting personalized invitations. :)

I'll fill in more details later, as I take the weekend to read your posts again
and try
to map out a good daily schedule. I know from experience that some structure and
stricture are necessary to keep people focused and moving, so a framework is
essential.

Again, thank you all for your support. This is going to be a hell of a ride,
assuming we
survive.

mike
--
i wasn't laughing at you...it's just there's no simple ascii emoticon
for "raises clenched fist and headbangs in joyful accord." (skylark)
> < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > <
metlay / atomic city / metlay@... / http://www.atomiccity.com

Rather than launch into a message-by-message response to everything
up to now, I'm jumping in late and tacking my replies onto Greg's
replies to ideas out there:

>I like the idea of workshops that are also participatory music
>sessions, perhaps
>an opportunity for someone to explore some creative concepts or
>techniques that
>require more musicians than they normally have access to. E.g. the workshop
>"leader" could provide some guidelines or instructions (in contrast to a
>completely impromptu jam session). Or maybe the workshops could just
>be "themed"
>jam sessions. Lots of interesting possibilities.

This is what I have in mind. The idea is that the structure will help
focus the musicmaking and some of the workshops can be open to a
small audience (thereby keeping the theme of Arcosanti being a place
for onsite education).

>I also have a concern about the gear - how much will there be, and
>can it all fit
>on the stage. Certainly it's best if there can be one setup and one take down.
>I get nervous if my gear is out of my sight, so I like the idea of
>taking turns
>sleeping with it!

This may not be practical. It'll all fit on the stage at once, I'll
bet, but the nights are cold, if dry. Not sure how the gear would
like having dew forming inside it nightly. Something to think about
and plan for.

>I would vote against more than one event at a time, at least in the evenings.
>Perhaps in the afternoons it would be ok to have multiple small scale things
>going on at once.

I think that one event per evening is a definite, and that for
practical purposes MORE than one per afternoon is essential or no one
will be able to do anything! Split up into groups and try stuff. I
can see eight or nine "groups" forming for long enough to write and
perform a few songs each...

...and get them onto a CD, of course. Hell, if Okefenokee can do it,
why can't we? We can list the tracks by name and "group" and see if
anyone can guess who's in them. :)

>One thing I wonder about - what if lots of people want to sign up for this?
>Should there be a limit on the number, and if so based on what criteria? Do we
>want to start posting a "call for artists" or keep it to beyond_em for now?

I already made my thoughts clear on this. I personally doubt we'll be
overloaded, but I want to find out how many people Arcosanti can
sleep and feed comfortably before I start excluding anyone. I'll be
the one to say yea or nay to people, but I doubt I'll have to turn
anyone away.

mike

--
"Instead of spreading my genes I decided to spread some memes" (o.p.)
====================================================================
Mike Metlay * ATOMIC CITY * PO Box 17083 * Boulder CO 80308-0083 USA
metlay@... *  1-800-924-ATOM  * http://www.atomiccity.com

Giles sez:

> OK, Poly, lets go for both, although I'm sure the workshops would be few
> and far between now that I think about it. More time to JAM!!!

*I'm up for the creative process, and mostly just jamming....but maybe I'm
missing the target on this whole workshop thing... Mikes last post made it
sound
participatory and perhaps beyond what I was imagining it would be
which was... I'll be frank:
(Monotone voice):
This is a sawtooth wave.........  BBBLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
This is a square wave...........   BBBLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This is an echo....................
Blip........Blip............Blip.............Blip.

Sorry, I would have a hard time getting excited. I want to JAM!
However, what did you guys have in mind about these "workshops"?


>     The amphitheater is covered, but otherwise outside - could be a slight
> problem leaving stuff out overnight, but who knows. Maybe we could take
> turns sleeping with the gear!

*Forgot about that. The main stage is an amphitheatre... DOH! Oh well...I had
a feeling that would just not work. Would have been nice though eh? Just
setting everything up in a huge place and letting rip whenever.

This brings up another point. Since this is going to be in the fall we should
check out temperatures at that time of year.. (maybe even bring it up with
the people who run the place what conditions are like that time of year,
would it be better indoors? outdoors? )

One thing that's really nice about this event is having a whole year's time
to hammer out ideas...

> I'm pretty sure egos could be checked at the door, and we would all chip
> in a do what was needed. I'm pretty good with cooking pancakes ;)

*Yup.
One thing that was discussed was name acts...I think actually in terms of
money going out we could get lots of mid-level names of high musical quality
without having to pay....and if paying out for someone to play meant too
great a deficit... well, I mean this whole event shouldn't be too great a
weight if we're careful.. the main thing is if we can keep it reasonable
costwise and fun this could really turn into something cool.
Not that I wouldn't love any of these players being there... just if it meant
money going out and we lost too much the thing is dead already.

One other question that will probably have to be addressed rather soon is how
many? I have a couple of people in mind that we should extend the offer to
outside the beyond_em crowd... namely Jeff Pearce (fantastic ambient
guitarist) and Jim Cole
(Overtone singer who leads Spectral voices choir... excellent!) Paul Vnuk,
Chris Short (Ma Ja Le) etc. etc. This could swell up real quick if we're not
careful...
I'm just throwing out thoughts here.... anyone?

Poly



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/11/2002 8:02:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
metlay@... writes:


> I already made my thoughts clear on this. I personally doubt we'll be
> overloaded, but I want to find out how many people Arcosanti can
> sleep and feed comfortably before I start excluding anyone. I'll be
> the one to say yea or nay to people, but I doubt I'll have to turn
> anyone away.
>
> mike
>

*Hmmm so you're saying not to invite people? I didn't see this until after
the one from Giles... Like I mentioned there are a couple people I was
thinking would be good and I'm sure others do too... Let's be clear then
before I mention anything to anybody, Mike, you're saying that you are singly
in charge of invitations?
Poly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

liquidunknown@... wrote:

> This brings up another point. Since this is going to be in the fall we should
> check out temperatures at that time of year.. (maybe even bring it up with
> the people who run the place what conditions are like that time of year,
> would it be better indoors? outdoors? )

If it's in October, it can get quite cool at night (50F). On the other hand, if
it's in September, it can get pretty hot (90+) during the day. As someone
mentioned, the amphiteater is outdoors but covered. That's the only real option
for the performances.

> One thing that was discussed was name acts...I think actually in terms of
> money going out we could get lots of mid-level names of high musical quality
> without having to pay....and if paying out for someone to play meant too
> great a deficit... well, I mean this whole event shouldn't be too great a
> weight if we're careful.. the main thing is if we can keep it reasonable
> costwise and fun this could really turn into something cool.
> Not that I wouldn't love any of these players being there... just if it meant
> money going out and we lost too much the thing is dead already.

I don't think it should be necessary to offer financial inducements. Although it
would be nice to have big names there, they should participate in the same
spirit. Look at Ricochet - they are getting Airsculpture, Star Sounds Orchestra,
Paul Lawler, FSP - plenty of great music, based purely on the attraction of the
event and venue.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Waltzer" <gwaltzer@...>
> We'll have to see if we can rent a van large enough to accomodate 4-5 people
plus
> gear. If not, then multiple vehicles I suppose. Has Howard expressed any
interest? I
> imagine there are other east coasters that might want to make the trip.

Greg mentioned our friend Howard (Moscovitz).  See http://mosc.com to learn a
little bit about him.  Howard, Greg and I drove to Okefenokee together last
April.  I haven't told Howard about arcosynthi, yet.  I forgot, though I had
plenty of opportunities yesterday before, during, and after our rehearsal.

Hey Howard!  You might be interested in joining this yahoogroup for a new event
in the planning stages.  It is explained at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcosynthi and has an easy link to help you join,
too.  If you liked the Ricochet Dreams at Okefenokee event (and I KNOW you
did!), you'll want to keep track of arcosynthi.

Cheers,

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: <liquidunknown@...>


> In a message dated 10/11/2002 8:02:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> metlay@... writes:
> > I already made my thoughts clear on this. I personally doubt we'll be
> > overloaded, but I want to find out how many people Arcosanti can
> > sleep and feed comfortably before I start excluding anyone. I'll be
> > the one to say yea or nay to people, but I doubt I'll have to turn
> > anyone away.
>
> *Hmmm so you're saying not to invite people? I didn't see this until after
> the one from Giles... Like I mentioned there are a couple people I was
> thinking would be good and I'm sure others do too... Let's be clear then
> before I mention anything to anybody, Mike, you're saying that you are singly
> in charge of invitations?

Oops!  Me, too.  My mail to Howard went out before I read Mike's message.  My
bad!  But I think Jeff, Jim, Paul, and Chris would be excellent choices.  Chuck
van Zyl springs to mind, too.

Cheers,

Bill

P.S.  I'd love to attend a few workshops presented by Nick.  Heck, he could do a
few on the pulse sequencer alone.  His Max constructions could be the topic of a
few more workshops!  Use of non-keyboard controllers...

I don't mind invitations per se, and won't scream about the ones that
went out already, but if everyone who's been invited so far makes an
effort to come it could get a little nuts once we're all trying to
make noise together. This may well be the reason why Vic Rek keeps
his event so small, just so it doesn't get totally out of hand. If we
deliberately want to make it bigger, we need to design it so it will
work at a larger scale without falling apart.

I want to gather a list of names of invitees (so far) before anyone
else gets dragged in. Right now there are the six of us on the list
plus various second-order invitees; mine are Nick Rothwell, Jesse
Sola (Numina), Darwin Grosse, Robert Carty, Steve Roach, Robert Rich,
John 3 Rossi, and Otso Pakarinen. I may add Paul Haslinger and Geoff
Downes to that list, depending on how things firm up. There's no
guarantee that any of them will hook up at this point...

I hate to be a pill about this, but one thing I'm going to insist on,
at least for this first outing and for the first six months of
planning, is that I'm not considering anyone as "coming" if they're
not on this list to follow developments and offer suggestions. That
may change later, but for now, I advise that you tell anyone you've
definitely invited to get on this list if they're curious and not
spread more invites until I find out for sure how much room Arcosanti
can spare us!

mike
--
"Instead of spreading my genes I decided to spread some memes" (o.p.)
====================================================================
Mike Metlay * ATOMIC CITY * PO Box 17083 * Boulder CO 80308-0083 USA
metlay@... *  1-800-924-ATOM  * http://www.atomiccity.com

> I don't mind invitations per se, and won't scream about the ones that
> went out already, but if everyone who's been invited so far makes an
> effort to come it could get a little nuts once we're all trying to
> make noise together.

*There will be a certain amount of attrition too... So far the list of names
looks pretty cool to me. I think by the time of the show the numbers won't be
too unmanageable.

    This may well be the reason why Vic Rek keeps
> his event so small, just so it doesn't get totally out of hand. If we
> deliberately want to make it bigger, we need to design it so it will
> work at a larger scale without falling apart.

That's exactly right and why I think this is something that should be
hammered
out now.

> I want to gather a list of names of invitees (so far) before anyone
> else gets dragged in. Right now there are the six of us on the list
> plus various second-order invitees; mine are Nick Rothwell, Jesse
> Sola (Numina), Darwin Grosse, Robert Carty, Steve Roach, Robert Rich,
> John 3 Rossi, and Otso Pakarinen. I may add Paul Haslinger and Geoff
> Downes to that list, depending on how things firm up. There's no
> guarantee that any of them will hook up at this point...

*..and I had suggested Jeff Pearce, Jim Cole and Ma Ja Le (Paul and Chris)
and we have Giles (And the rest of Spacecraft if memory serves) myself
Bill Fox and Greg Waltzer (Who, btw I've been meaning to ask.. I see you're
bringing your band.. What is the name of the band and what style? Just
curious I'm not familiar with your work.) Dave Fulton and Mike Griffin...I
don't know if there were other invites or anyone else I missed... but if we
cap off near this I think it'll be doable... I mean how many are ACTUALLY
going to do it beyond perhaps an initial enthusiasm... We'll see... but a
list like that is pretty impressive IMO. even if at the end of the day it
distills down to a few of those names.

One thing that I'm attracted to about this whole idea is that I've always
been moved by stories of how the French Impressionist Painters would go to a
park and work together on canvasses at the same place and discuss the work..
this whole idea appeals to me of sharing knowledge with like minded people
right in the moment of the act of creation...

> I hate to be a pill about this, but one thing I'm going to insist on,
> at least for this first outing and for the first six months of
> planning, is that I'm not considering anyone as "coming" if they're
> not on this list to follow developments and offer suggestions. That
> may change later, but for now, I advise that you tell anyone you've
> definitely invited to get on this list if they're curious and not
> spread more invites until I find out for sure how much room Arcosanti
> can spare us!

*This is a good idea I think. Personally I don't see it as "being a pill" I
think
It'll probably serve as a filter to see how true the enthusiasm runs in
people
wanting to participate...

Peace
Poly



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/12/2002 6:58:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gwaltzer@... writes:


> If it's in October, it can get quite cool at night (50F). On the other hand,
> if
> it's in September, it can get pretty hot (90+) during the day. As someone
> mentioned, the amphiteater is outdoors but covered. That's the only real
> option
> for the performances.

*Hmmm something to think about. Maybe earlier concerts to catch the most
daylight? Also checking into other areas for performance... there must be
some kind of indoor facility...  you'd think.

Poly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think even Vic's event is growing beyond the point where everyone can play
at the same time. You probably need to go with subsets.
It would be cool to have everyone play together, just to say we did it, but I
guess that the optimum is around 5-8 musicians for group jams.

Mike Metlay ++ Atomic City wrote:

> I don't mind invitations per se, and won't scream about the ones that
> went out already, but if everyone who's been invited so far makes an
> effort to come it could get a little nuts once we're all trying to
> make noise together. This may well be the reason why Vic Rek keeps
> his event so small, just so it doesn't get totally out of hand. If we
> deliberately want to make it bigger, we need to design it so it will
> work at a larger scale without falling apart.

liquidunknown@... wrote:

> *There will be a certain amount of attrition too... So far the list of names
> looks pretty cool to me. I think by the time of the show the numbers won't be
> too unmanageable.

Yes there will be some attrition, especially since it's a year off.
I think you will find out who is serious when you start collecting registration
money!

> *..and I had suggested Jeff Pearce, Jim Cole and Ma Ja Le (Paul and Chris)
> and we have Giles (And the rest of Spacecraft if memory serves) myself
> Bill Fox and Greg Waltzer (Who, btw I've been meaning to ask.. I see you're
> bringing your band.. What is the name of the band and what style? Just
> curious I'm not familiar with your work.)

It's actually a duo, not really a band - called Mutation Vector.
  www.mutationvector.com
I guess we're somewhere on the experimental side of berlin school.
We'll be playing at Gate to Moonbase Alpha in Philly on Friday.
I'll send you a CD if you like (and anyone else on the list).
James Lacey is the other member - I've asked him but he's not sure he can make
it
yet. I also mentioned it to another musician friend who definitely wants to
come,
pending how we resolve the invitee question.

> One thing that I'm attracted to about this whole idea is that I've always
> been moved by stories of how the French Impressionist Painters would go to a
> park and work together on canvasses at the same place and discuss the work..
> this whole idea appeals to me of sharing knowledge with like minded people
> right in the moment of the act of creation...

Absolutely!

Poly Sez:
>
> Giles sez:
>
> > OK, Poly, lets go for both, although I'm sure the workshops would be few
> > and far between now that I think about it. More time to JAM!!!
>
> *I'm up for the creative process, and mostly just jamming....but maybe I'm
> missing the target on this whole workshop thing... Mikes last post made it
> sound
> participatory and perhaps beyond what I was imagining it would be
> which was... I'll be frank:
> (Monotone voice):
> This is a sawtooth wave.........  BBBLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
> This is a square wave...........   BBBLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
> This is an echo....................
> Blip........Blip............Blip.............Blip.
>
> Sorry, I would have a hard time getting excited. I want to JAM!
> However, what did you guys have in mind about these "workshops"?

Remember about our last beyond_em discussion about creativity and stuff?
- I was remembering your comments about starting a new list for such
discussions when I envisioned the "workshop" concept. I'm sure It will
be tweaked in the coming months.
>

SNIP

> > I'm pretty sure egos could be checked at the door, and we would all chip
> > in a do what was needed. I'm pretty good with cooking pancakes ;)
>
> *Yup.
> One thing that was discussed was name acts...I think actually in terms of
> money going out we could get lots of mid-level names of high musical quality
> without having to pay....and if paying out for someone to play meant too
> great a deficit... well, I mean this whole event shouldn't be too great a
> weight if we're careful.. the main thing is if we can keep it reasonable
> costwise and fun this could really turn into something cool.
> Not that I wouldn't love any of these players being there... just if it meant
> money going out and we lost too much the thing is dead already.
>
> One other question that will probably have to be addressed rather soon is how
> many? I have a couple of people in mind that we should extend the offer to
> outside the beyond_em crowd... namely Jeff Pearce (fantastic ambient
> guitarist) and Jim Cole
> (Overtone singer who leads Spectral voices choir... excellent!) Paul Vnuk,
> Chris Short (Ma Ja Le) etc. etc. This could swell up real quick if we're not
> careful...
> I'm just throwing out thoughts here.... anyone?
>
In my first (private) email to Mike, I mentioned past experiences with
having a "name" performer and the cost involved. So far, the past
experiences have indicated that the "name" performer is the only one who
makes money, and it ends up costing more than it's worth cause the
"name" doesn't draw any audience! Nuff said, this event could be
different, so I'll shut my mouth!
BTW, I'm hoping to perform with "Etherium" (My wife Deirdre & Myself)
doing more beat oriented stuff with vocals - if it fits with the theme.
I can't speak for Spacecraft, but I would assume they all would love to
come, and we may even be graced with a performance by the Space Divas
(Deirdre and Diane Timmons) who are now recording some of the most
lovely e-music w/space vocals. But as always, I'm planning on being
flexible and adapting to whatever comes!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peace.
Giles Reaves
East Nashville, TN
http://www.spaceformusic.com/gilesreaves/

For those who haven't yet checked out the Arcosanti site, here's the
amphitheater. It looks just like I remember it. More photos and info here...

http://www.arcosanti.org/images/mc/amphi02.html
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peace.
Giles Reaves
East Nashville, TN
http://www.spaceformusic.com/gilesreaves/

For those who haven't yet checked out the Arcosanti site, here's the
amphitheater. It looks just like I remember it. More photos and info here...
http://www.arcosanti.org/images/mc/amphi02.html
Peace.
Giles Reaves

*Those pictures are very cool... and AHA! Do I see a tent-like structure
coming from the amphitheathre? There's our "roof"... also I noticed an inside
"music room" if the weather gets too bad...
Cool.
Poly

In a message dated 10/13/2002 8:46:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
selig@... writes:


> In my first (private) email to Mike, I mentioned past experiences with
> having a "name" performer and the cost involved. So far, the past
> experiences have indicated that the "name" performer is the only one who
> makes money, and it ends up costing more than it's worth cause the
> "name" doesn't draw any audience! Nuff said, this event could be
> different, so I'll shut my mouth!
>

*Actually, even though I'm sure we all know that "Paying money for" was
tacitly attached to the "Name" discussion, it struck me how odd it was to say
that with Giles being a participant... I mean when it comes to "names" his
ranks right the
hell up there!  Just wanted to jot a note and say how pleased I was to see
your humility. We all know that there's no evil manager who's going to make
tons of
money out of us poor naive waifs... This is just enjoying it for what it is.
Money isn't that big a deal, really when there's none to be made and you all
know it, it's kind of liberating!  You can get back to the love of the music
with no unnecessary interruptions or redirections based on trends.... which
is partially a relatively true objective statement but also I'm sure
partially a rationalization by a geek for his lack of ability to get arrested
musically!

Be that as it may notwithstandingheretothereforewhereforeartthou?
Or is it just me?

Poly

P.S. I just narrowly escaped the hatchet tonight. Linear Technology laid off
50% of it's workforce.... I was convinced my whole department was going to go
bye-bye and best case scenario for me would be reabsorbed back as an
operator, but it looks like I'm still a tech.... whew.  We were just going to
get refi'd on our house and save a bundle, which I imagine isn't as easy
without a job.... I'm sure Bill Fox can relate to the teetering edge I've
been walking for about a year and a half in the semiconductor industry. Every
day you think you're going in to a pink slip.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: <liquidunknown@...>
> P.S. I just narrowly escaped the hatchet tonight. Linear Technology laid off
> 50% of it's workforce.... I was convinced my whole department was going to go
> bye-bye and best case scenario for me would be reabsorbed back as an
> operator, but it looks like I'm still a tech.... whew.  We were just going to
> get refi'd on our house and save a bundle, which I imagine isn't as easy
> without a job.... I'm sure Bill Fox can relate to the teetering edge I've
> been walking for about a year and a half in the semiconductor industry. Every
> day you think you're going in to a pink slip.

I'm so glad you survived the latest round of cuts.  I left the industry in
January, 2000, having moved to another segment of Lucent.  Then Lucent spun off
microelectronics as Agere.  Both companies just announced more layoffs!  I'm SO
glad I retired in 2001.  I just hope Lucent can survive so I won't loose my
medical/dental/vision benefits.  Stock was $0.60 last time I looked.  :-(

Cheers,

Bill

Hello, all.
I'm very interested in traveling down south next year for the
Arcosanti festival next year.  The only problem for me is that the
next year remains an uncertain future due to the fact that I will
soon be a father (in December)!  Mr. Metlay has already braced me for
certain things regarding fatherhood.  (whew - wipes sweat from brow)
The other factor for me is that I would like to have my long-time
friend and music collaborator, Skip Murphy, come down with me as he's
an EXCELLENT engineer.  He's like a safety-guard for me if something
goes wrong with any of my synths!  I'd like to talk to him about this
to see if he'd be interested.  Any objections to inviting him to join
this list?

But, in the meantime, I'd like to participate in the discussions as
much as possible as the whole thing sounds like a good time for all.
(Man, just think of the music we'd all create together!)

I like the idea of spreading the event over a few days, too.  It
would be a fun vacation for all involved.  It would be necessary to
have more than one day to participate with collaborations with
various artists, as well as drink a few brewskis and socialize.

Now that I'm thinking about it:  It would be really great if I could
find a way to take a couple weeks off from work WITH PAY and travel
across the USA to play at various venues without it costing me an arm
and a leg... any suggestions?  (Or sponsors?)

Yours Arcosantingly,
Craig
http://craigpadilla.com