> There is a petition and a website, but Avid seem to have caught a bad case of
pig-headed idiot management asshole-itis, so I'm going to be very pessimistic
and British about this one.

Did Henry Juszkiewicz start working with Avid?

It's very interesting to look at how some businesses are run and it is
very hard to decide whether to buy a particular product.  Do you buy the
product without thinking about the company?  What if a company makes a
great product but does bad things?  What about a great company that
makes bad products?  What if that bad product costs more than the good
product from the crappy company?

Here's some fodder, would you buy products from these people?  Why or
why not?

Monster cables
Gibson
Behringer
Avid
Apple

Regards,
Doug

P.S. Why did Sibelius sell/let themselves be purchased?

I work for an ESOP company (employee stock ownership plan).  Before he
started the ESOP, the owner was trying to decide how to retire.  Should
he sell out to a larger company?  Before he started our company, he had
been part of an acquisition.  The company he worked for got swallowed up
by a huge conglomerate and the culture was destroyed.  (Think Ensoniq
being taken over by Creative...)  He didn't want that to happen to this
company, so he started the ESOP and had the employees start buying the
company from him.  Now, a little over a decade later, we employees are
about to buy the last of his stock.

I see this whole process as a great thing.  We are loyal to the company,
we are proud to work here, and we don't want anyone else to take it over
and ruin it, even if we would have some short term profit...

Re: Doug's query...


>>>> Here's some fodder, would you buy products from these people?  Why or
why not?

Monster cables
Gibson
Behringer
Avid
Apple

 I'd "love" to shred a couple of the stinkers who have left me hanging, but
instead, let me compliment Camel Audio, who responded to a chronic online
ordering issue by finally sending me a link to the key for the patch set I
wanted. That gracious freebie under pressure has yet another Alchemy set on my
list. 


 Jerry Kovarsky himself, of Korg, took the time to respond to an antique problem
I had with my old 01Wfd workstation. I've always loved Korg- I gave a gratified
pal in Australia a Monotron for Xmas- and being backed up like that further
cements the relationship. It doesn't hurt that I consider Jack Hotop to be a
sound developer on a par with Eric Persing. 

 
 I bought the first Intel iMac, which was a huge lemon in my case. It was simply
chronically defective, unlike any other Apple item I have owned. Apple sent
techs to my *home* TWICE and when that failed, they replaced it under the
extended warranty. There was never any problem, just the process itself. I have
a friend who still deeply bemoans the loss of Opcode's Studio Vision Pro, which
leads me to appreciate Logic's stability all the more.


 Discarding the main coders of Sibelius smells bad from every angle. The right
thing to do is to sell it to them for a partial interest and thus allow the user
base to be served. If the cost/benefit ratio is even halfway manageable to the
coders themselves, the program deserves to stay viable for the faithful. In this
particular case, IMO, you should be able to count on Sibelius for 20 years or
so, as you would a dependable keyboard workstation, because it has moved far
beyond the level of a mere novelty synth plug-in you might drop within a year.  
   



David


http://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1/
PsychoticMeerkatsOfSuburbia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm talking about basic business competence rather than morality (which is a
whole other discussion.)

Digi/Avid went on an acquisitions spree, bought too many companies, and when
cheaper toys ate their lunch they had nowhere to go but down.

They could have kept customers faithful by providing exemplary service and bug
free updates. But I get the impression HQ had other priorities.

So here we are.

Richard

On 4 Aug 2012, at 18:57, "Doug Wellington" <doug@...> wrote:

>> There is a petition and a website, but Avid seem to have caught a bad case of
pig-headed idiot management asshole-itis, so I'm going to be very pessimistic
and British about this one.
>
> Did Henry Juszkiewicz start working with Avid?
>
> It's very interesting to look at how some businesses are run and it is
> very hard to decide whether to buy a particular product.  Do you buy the
> product without thinking about the company?  What if a company makes a
> great product but does bad things?  What about a great company that
> makes bad products?  What if that bad product costs more than the good
> product from the crappy company?
>
> Here's some fodder, would you buy products from these people?  Why or
> why not?
>
> Monster cables
> Gibson
> Behringer
> Avid
> Apple
>
> Regards,
> Doug
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Ugh, sounds similar to the Gibson buy out of Opcode atrocity of some years back.
On Aug 4, 2012, at 1:08 PM, Otso Pakarinen wrote:

> Unfortunately they caught it a long time ago so it's probably not going to get
cured anytime soon. In the 90's Avid bought a British company called Parallax
who made video compositing and paint tools for SGI workstations called Advance
(later Media Illusion) and Matador. In 2001 they discontinued them and refused
to sell them back to the original developers. (Do I need to tell that I was
using Illusion and Matador and that I have never bought anything from Avid since
then?) For me, NI killing Kore is almost nothing compared to that butchery.

----
Charles

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Aug 4, 2012, at 1:57 PM, Doug Wellington wrote:

> Here's some fodder, would you buy products from these people? Why or
> why not?
>
My vague, off the cuff responses.

> Monster cables
Hype
> Gibson
I'm still pissed about Opcode
> Behringer
Poorly made. Disposable gear.
> Avid
I jumped off the Digidesign/Avid bandwagon some years back. Software does not
play well with others and the upgrade merry-go-round became a PITA as well as a
greed fest.
> Apple
Love, hate relationship.

Good: OSX, iOS, MacBook Pro, iPhone and iPad. Totally painless tech.

Bad: Unfortunately, Logic has gotten bloated thru neglect and doesn't play well
with others. Apple has completely neglected The Environment so when Max for Live
came out I stopped using Logic except for old projects started in Logic and on
the rare occasions I need traditional notation for parts.  The new FCP is a
disaster. I like the whole cloud idea but it's not ready for prime time. Retina
is a gimmick, hopefully it will go away. Garage band is awful.
Very bad: They need to address off shore human rights issues and environmental
issues.
----
Charles

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I'm talking about basic business competence rather than morality (which is a
whole other discussion.)

Cue discussion of Chick-fil-a.

On second thought...
LOL

> Ugh, sounds similar to the Gibson buy out of Opcode atrocity of some years
back.

The path of Gibson seems to be littered with the bodies of several
former companies.  I find it interesting that Henry is on leave from the
board of the Rainforest Alliance while the investigation about the
imported ebony goes on...

On 4 Aug 2012, at 20:26, Em Dee <twogbmac2@...> wrote:

>  Jerry Kovarsky himself, of Korg, took the time to respond to an antique
problem I had with my old 01Wfd workstation.

I have three 20-year-old Wavestations which still work - at least, well enough
for their age - but then again Korg have just orphaned their Analog and Digital
Edition instruments sets after 5 years, and I rely - or did rely - on them
heavily. They seem to get hardware, but don't get software, support-wise.

	 -- N.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think software is getting to the point where you'll get more mileage out of
free and open source (FOSS) projects than out of commercial products.

FOSS is often chaotic, but once a project reaches a critical mass of support it
tends to stick around.

Csound (which I loathe, but never mind) has been around since 1986.
SuperCollider has been around since 1996.

It's unlikely either will disappear.

Max has been commercial since about 1990, but C74 have always seemed like a seat
of the pants outfit and I don't think anyone knows if they'll still be around
ten years from now. (I'd hope so...)

Compare with NI, TC Electronic, Nord, Korg, Yamaha, and Avid, who have all
killed popular and widely used products without notice.

Richard

On 5 Aug 2012, at 12:12, Nick Rothwell <nick@...> wrote:

> On 4 Aug 2012, at 20:26, Em Dee <twogbmac2@...> wrote:
>
>> Jerry Kovarsky himself, of Korg, took the time to respond to an antique
problem I had with my old 01Wfd workstation.
>
> I have three 20-year-old Wavestations which still work - at least, well enough
for their age - but then again Korg have just orphaned their Analog and Digital
Edition instruments sets after 5 years, and I rely - or did rely - on them
heavily. They seem to get hardware, but don't get software, support-wise.
>
>    -- N.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On 4 Aug 2012, at 22:33, Charles Shriner <charles@...> wrote:

> Good: OSX, iOS, MacBook Pro, iPhone and iPad. Totally painless tech.

OS X goes through patches; Lion was a bit flaky, Mountain Lion (so far) feels
better. I think they alternate, like the Star Trek movies.

> The new FCP is a disaster.

I quite like it, but it rather reeks of consumer dumbed-down-ness, and
jettisoning a huge installed base of Final Cut {x | x < 10} users was stupid. I
know a lot of people jumped to Vegas. And that's shipped by Sony, so you get an
idea of how desperate they must have been.

(I've just been reviewing some Sony kit, and it's the closest I've come to using
the phrase "hamfisted crapstack" in print.)

> I like the whole cloud idea but it's not ready for prime time.

Apple have repeated screwed up file/data sync services, so I don't know whether
they'll get iCloud to work - to get an idea of how confused they are, try to
understand how photo streaming interacts - sorry, interferes - with device sync.
I'm also wary of the loss of control, data exporting and so on.

> Retina is a gimmick, hopefully it will go away.

I disagree; ultra high res display is really nice, especially for text.

	 -- N.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Retina is a gimmick, hopefully it will go away.
>
> I disagree; ultra high res display is really nice, especially for text.

Ah, you young punks with good eyes.  I can't tell the difference so I
bought the iPad 2.  I started out with 9 pin dot matrix printers, so
this stuff is all magical now...  LOL

Doug

On 5 Aug 2012, at 17:03, Doug Wellington <doug@...> wrote:

> Ah, you young punks with good eyes.

Older punk with reading glasses.

	 -- N.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nick Rothwell <nick@...> kirjoitti 5.8.2012 kello 14.08:

> On 4 Aug 2012, at 22:33, Charles Shriner <charles@...> wrote:
>
>> Good: OSX, iOS, MacBook Pro, iPhone and iPad. Totally painless tech.
>
> OS X goes through patches; Lion was a bit flaky, Mountain Lion (so far) feels
better. I think they alternate, like the Star Trek movies.

Pretty much the same experience here. I didn't like Lion very much, Mountain
Lion seems to be better.

>> The new FCP is a disaster.
>
> I quite like it, but it rather reeks of consumer dumbed-down-ness, and
jettisoning a huge installed base of Final Cut {x | x < 10} users was stupid. I
know a lot of people jumped to Vegas. And that's shipped by Sony, so you get an
idea of how desperate they must have been.
>
> (I've just been reviewing some Sony kit, and it's the closest I've come to
using the phrase "hamfisted crapstack" in print.)

I have to admit I haven't bothered to even check FCPX, although SOME
professionals seem to actually like it. I have been using Premiere CS6 and I
really like it.

>> Retina is a gimmick, hopefully it will go away.
>
> I disagree; ultra high res display is really nice, especially for text.

I don't have anything with retina display but I checked it and I really love the
sharpness. Not a gimmick at all, IMO.

Otso

> > Ah, you young punks with good eyes.
>
> Older punk with reading glasses.

Heehee, I'm giving in and finally going for the third level.  Trying to
figure if I should go with trifocals or progressives...

Doug Wellington wrote:
>Heehee, I'm giving in and finally going for the third level.
>Trying to figure if I should go with trifocals or progressives...

Progressives. I've had them for 20+ years and they're wonderful. I tried
tri-focals with lines and had lots of problems adapting. But even with
progressives, I've had to use another set of "reading" glasses just for
computer use.

Phil
____________________________________________________________
Dealing With Incontinence
Learn About This Medical Condition. What You May Be Able To Do About It
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/501f974d960be174d4697st02vuc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok guys, as is the tradition, Melanie has asked me to inquire if anyone has any
specialty food requests this year, other than her fantastic Mac and Cheese, so
let's hear it

Sent from my iPhone

Siiiiiigh.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Allen Goodman <azaxeman@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Ok guys, as is the tradition, Melanie has asked me to inquire if anyone
> has any specialty food requests this year, other than her fantastic Mac and
> Cheese, so let's hear it
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Aug 11, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Allen Goodman wrote:

> Ok guys, as is the tradition, Melanie has asked me to inquire if anyone has
any specialty food requests this year, other than her fantastic Mac and Cheese,
so let's hear it

As is the tradition, I reply: "mmmm... enchiladas.""

Would some cheese at the breakfast be an unreasonable request?

Otso

Allen Goodman <azaxeman@...> kirjoitti 12.8.2012 kello 5.00:

> Ok guys, as is the tradition, Melanie has asked me to inquire if anyone has
any specialty food requests this year, other than her fantastic Mac and Cheese,
so let's hear it

I suddenly developed a hankering for chicken wings, however practical that may
be :)  The hotter the better, although I'll still be bringing a small arsenal of
habanero peppers just in case :)


Rus


--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Allen Goodman <azaxeman@...> wrote:
>
> Ok guys, as is the tradition, Melanie has asked me to inquire if anyone has
any specialty food requests this year, other than her fantastic Mac and Cheese,
so let's hear it
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

 Pop Tarts: the final salvation for campers who packed too little real food. I
also recommend cashews and almonds. Those perky little trace elements make me a
bigger, 'badder' synthesist. Tree nuts are great for sustaining you in a pinch,
although they cannot replace back-up cords you left at home.   


David

www.davidmanning1.bandcamp.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 14 Aug 2012, at 21:57, Em Dee <twogbmac2@...> wrote:

>  Pop Tarts: the final salvation for campers who packed too little real food.

Pop Tart Croissants: you could have something there.

If not: a Pop Tart in your pocket is a simple and affordable way to convince
people that you own an iPhone.

	 -- N.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Must have metric pop tarts over there.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Nick Rothwell <nick@...> wrote:

> On 14 Aug 2012, at 21:57, Em Dee <twogbmac2@...> wrote:
>
> > Pop Tarts: the final salvation for campers who packed too little real food.
>
> Pop Tart Croissants: you could have something there.
>
> If not: a Pop Tart in your pocket is a simple and affordable way to convince
people that you own an iPhone.
>
> -- N.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Metric Pop Tarts! Now there's a name for a tune.

JEM


In a message dated 8/15/2012 11:53:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jeff@... writes:




Must have metric pop tarts over there.

Sent from my  iPhone

On Aug 15, 2012, at 7:48 AM, Nick Rothwell <_nick@..._
(mailto:nick@...) > wrote:

>  On 14 Aug 2012, at 21:57, Em Dee <_twogbmac2@..._
(mailto:twogbmac2@...) > wrote:
>
> > Pop Tarts: the final salvation for campers who packed too little  real
food.
>
> Pop Tart Croissants: you could have something  there.
>
> If not: a Pop Tart in your pocket is a simple and  affordable way to
convince people that you own an iPhone.
>
> --  N.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 If I'm using a Pop-Tart to fake iPhone ownership, I don't need an iPhone, I
need an extended enema. Its like the guy who showed up for a gig with older gear
like a DX7 and got derided by a couple of the attendees. He said "They sure shut
up once I started playing, though." Of course, bringing a case of Pop-Tarts to a
festival in the great outdoors can certainly increase your fan base.


David


www.davidmanning1.bandcamp.com
http://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1/fevre-dreamin

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 15 Aug 2012, at 23:17, JEMPolyUnRex@... wrote:

> Metric Pop Tarts! Now there's a name for a tune.

Or, indeed, for a girl band.

	 -- N.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betty Boop:  the original Pop Tart.


RF



--- In differentskies@yahoogroups.com, Nick Rothwell <nick@...> wrote:
>
> On 15 Aug 2012, at 23:17, JEMPolyUnRex@... wrote:
>
> > Metric Pop Tarts! Now there's a name for a tune.
>
> Or, indeed, for a girl band.
>
>  -- N.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Putting out the word to all DS12 participants that I'm tentatively planning a
Spaghetti western movie night on the Sunday of our arrival.  Fans of Sergio
Leone should be especially happy :)

Here's a list of films in my arsenal from which we can choose:

Fistful of Dollars
A Few Dollars More
The Good, The Bad & The Ugly (extended 3 hour version)
Once Upon a Time in the West
Fistful of Dynamite
Hang Em High
High Plains Drifter
Joe Kidd
Two Mules For Sister Sara
Life & Times of Judge Roy Bean


Keep in mind, this is not intended to be a multiple-movie marathon, as any one
of these selections could be well over 2 hours alone.  So unfortunately, we'll
have to limit ourselves to just one film :)

And, just for kicks, we could follow it up with the original classic version of
Meatballs with Bill Murray.



Okay, maybe we'll scratch that last part.



RF

I have a killer (& fairly simple) recipe for poblano chicken I'd love her
to make.  I'll even bring the poblanos.  It's a shoe-in for an arco meal.
-jk

-------- Original Message --------
> From: "Allen Goodman" <azaxeman@...>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 7:03 PM
> To: "Different Skies" <differentskies@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [differentskies] Food
>
> Ok guys, as is the tradition, Melanie has asked me to inquire if anyone
has any specialty food requests this year, other than her fantastic Mac and
Cheese, so let's hear it
>
> Sent from my iPhone