New AP site - Verse 4 revision


Posted by Jim on February 8, 2002, 3:44 pm

To Anyone Interested,
I think I cleared this verse up (or as clear as it's going to get):
http://americanpie.smithcraft.org/vs4pg1.htm

...and now I'll shut up.

Link: http://americanpie.smithcraft.org/vs4pg1.htm
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Posted by Pouncer on February 8, 2002, 4:37 pm , in reply to "New AP
site - Verse 4 revision"

Nice page Jim, a very well written and thought provoking
interpretation. I guess no one will ever really know the definitive
meaning behind those lyrics (unless Don finally speaks or puts it in
print) but your analysis is one of the best I have read.
re: 'the marching band', it was widely interpreted throught the years
as referring to the Vietnam war, that despite all that went on, the
horrors of that conflict just continued relentlessly. It was
interesting to see a different 'take' on that.
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Posted by Jim on February 8, 2002, 4:53 pm , in reply to "Re: New AP
site - Verse 4 revision"

Thanks, Pouncer. The marching band certainly resonates, doesn't it?
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Posted by Fuzzy on February 9, 2002, 4:35 pm , in reply to "Re: New
AP site - Verse 4 revision"

Thank you, Jim. That must have been the product of much thinking and
knowledge of the socio-political background of the time.
However, the significance of the 'players' and the allusion to The
Byrds still bother me. Amidst all the other references, i.e. to
drugs, war, protest movements etc., could the stanza also be talking
about the rivalry between musicians who simply played their
instruments and sing (players) without relying on synthesizers and
other electronic effects and those who introduced these effects into
their music, such as The Byrds and The Beatles in their "Sergeant
Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band"?
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Posted by SJ on February 10, 2002, 11:32 am , in reply to "Re: New AP
site - Verse 4 revision"


Jim, thanks for your new site, which is really gorgeous!!
Definitely the first really thoughtful interp. I've seen. I like it.

I also liked the So Long Hopalong Cassidy link with Bye Bye MAP,
which I'd never considered before.

Just a really great site! Well done!

PS. Fuzzy, your discussion of the fourth verse is really interesting.
I like your point about the conflict between the "players" (I hadn't
thought of players in that sense) and the "sergeants". It seems more
logical than a couple of AP interps I've seen that basically say that
Don is (supposedly) blaming the Beatles, with that WONDERFUL album,
for the demise of danceable music (hello? the waltzy bit in "Being
For The Benefit Of Mr Kite", the catchy "When I'm 64" which just
MAKES you bounce along, ditto with "A Little Help From My Friends"
~aw Ringo~, the mesmerising Indian sounds of "Within You, Without
You"... rant rant rant!). It's such a daft interpretation especially
when you consider that Don said he wrote the AP album with the same
magnificent album in mind (at least I'm almost sure it was this album-
- odd little bits of his music remind me hugely of the White Album,
which I suppose isn't surprising considering that that album has
EVERYthing...)!

Was on earth was I talking about again?
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Posted by Jim on February 11, 2002, 2:20 am , in reply to "Re: New AP
site - Verse 4 revision"

Thanks so much, SJ. And I hate to admit how much I enjoy your
enthusiasm for the site!
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Posted by Jim on February 10, 2002, 12:16 pm , in reply to "Re: New
AP site - Verse 4 revision"

Hi Fuzzy. I know that the electronics was a big issue with Dylan's
old school fans when he introduced them into his music in sixty-five,
but I'm not sure where this issue comes up in verse four.
Certainly "Eight Miles High" is full of electric guitars. Maybe I
missed it. Where do you see it?
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Posted by Fuzzy on February 10, 2002, 4:23 pm , in reply to "Re: New
AP site - Verse 4 revision"

Jim, I don't see it explicitly stated, but I'd been wondering for a
long time what 'players' refer to and why there seems to be a match
or tussle between them and the other team (to take Don's football
image). This other team is not just the Beatles, because "the players
tried for a forward pass" before the Beatles were referred to.
I then thought: What was it that the early Byrds songs have in common
with "Sergeant Pepper" ? -- and the electronics and other effects
came to mind. It's the word 'players' that made me think of people
who simply play their musical instruments without benefit of
technology. It seems to be Players vs Marching Band. Weren't the
Byrds and the Beatles both bands rather than individual performers?
But why 'marching'? I can't answer that. Nor can I understand
why "the birds/Byrds flew off WITH a fallout shelter." Why WITH?
Sarahjane, I do share your enthusiasm for the "Sergeant Pepper"
album. I didn't like the Beatles until I heard that album. And though
I'd only got to know the Byrds music after listening to "American
Pie" just over a year ago, I've come to LOVE their "Tambourine
Man", "Turn, Turn" and "Eight Miles High", as well as "So You Want to
be a Rock and Roll Star?"
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Posted by Karman on February 10, 2002, 10:54 pm
Message modified by Administrator Karman February 10, 2002, 11:00 pm

You mean I've been singing it wrong all this time? WAHHH!!! I always
thought he was singing "The birds/Byrds flew off FOR the fallout
shelter" - it does sound kind of like he's saying "with," but since
that didn't make much sense to me, I just substituted my own
preposition that DID make more sense, I guess. Hmmmm... So, they took
the fallout shelter with them? Eight miles high, then dropped it?
Gee, I'm really getting confused now!
The marching band reference seems to tie in to the sergeants
reference, to me. Both military-sounding - so, maybe the marching
band could be another reference to the Beatles, around the time of
Sergeant Pepper.

This is why I've NEVER let myself (until now - it's all YOUR fault,
Jim) get sucked into trying to analyze this damned song! I'm crazy
enough already without making things any worse by tormenting myself
this way!
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Posted by Jim on February 11, 2002, 2:06 am , in reply to "Re: New AP
site - Verse 4 revision"

I do what I can, Karman .
I think we should take a closer look now at Magdalene Lane...
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Posted by Karman on February 12, 2002, 12:41 am , in reply to "Re:
New AP site - Verse 4 revision"

Oh yeah, now THAT'S a song that lends itself to some VERY interesting
interpretations... Hey, Donny, if you're reading this, resurrect it
into your repertoire once in a while for us die-hards, OK?
Pleeeeeease? It's the first song I ever heard him perform live and I
was hooked from that monment on...
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Posted by Jim on February 11, 2002, 2:12 am , in reply to "Re: New AP
site - Verse 4 revision"

I'll take the easy one for now, Fuzzy: the marching band is the
Beatles because they all wear marching band uniforms on the cover
of "Sgt.Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band."
As for the rest...it's late, and this song is starting to make my
head hurt. Maybe I can think of something later.
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Posted by BillH on February 11, 2002, 9:26 am , in reply to "Re: New
AP site - Verse 4 revision"

Just wait till you see my 10000 word interpretation of 'Planet
Noise'.
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Posted by Jim on February 11, 2002, 10:17 am , in reply to "Re: New
AP site - Verse 4 revision"

Ah, the classics...