Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
harmonic_entropy · A list dedicated to the exploration of harmonic entropy models of musical consonance
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want your group to be featured on the Yahoo! Groups website? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Reply to Haresh   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #699 of 1055 |
RE: [harmonic_entropy] Reply to Haresh

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 8:33 AM
Subject: [harmonic_entropy] Reply to Haresh

>Query 1: Are Relative Harmonic Entropy, Sonance, and Cordance
equivalent?

The last two Words(?) were invented by Monzo. Sonance is not
equivalence to cordance, because sonance is dependent on musical
context and perhaps even conventions. Cordance does seem
qualitatively similar to harmonic entropy; although roughness seems
to be, in addition to harmonic entropy, a component of cordance.

>Query 2: We do not seem to have their units. If we do not have, we
should
>devise some measuring standard, however arbitrary, for study and
>comparison.

Though arbitrary, the vertical axis ranges from 4.29 to 6.08 in the
0.6% case. If you think it would be worth my while, I will repost the
graphs with tick marks and numbers to the left of the vertical axis,
and if you wish, a grid of parallel horizontal lines across the graph.

>Query 3: Now, I find myself intensely interested in the the RHE of
the
>following:

For the following, I will assume that by 'Relative' you mean relative
to the harmonic entropy of the unison, and that for the scales in
(i), (ii), and (iii), you mean to play a continuous drone at a pitch
of 0 cents. Fine means s=.006%, ordinary means s=.012%.

(i) 22-shruti gamut

I'm assuming a range from -550 to 1950 cents against the single drone
pitch at 0 cents.

         cents      fine HE    ordinary HE
         -498       1.4394      0.61959
         -408       1.6526      0.67357
         -386       1.5281      0.65559
         -316        1.572      0.67198
         -294       1.6476       0.6792
         -204       1.6288      0.68845
         -182       1.6314      0.69061
         -112       1.6517      0.71196
          -90        1.666      0.72601
            0            0            0
           90        1.666      0.72601
          112       1.6517      0.71196
          182       1.6314      0.69061
          204       1.6288      0.68845
          294       1.6476       0.6792
          316        1.572      0.67198
          386       1.5281      0.65559
          408       1.6526      0.67357
          498       1.4394      0.61959
          520       1.6571      0.66059
          590       1.6026      0.67538
          612       1.6288      0.68461
          702       1.2515      0.54437
          792       1.6395      0.68719
          814       1.5952      0.68118
          884       1.4826      0.63804
          906       1.6544      0.66726
          996       1.6473      0.68036
         1018       1.6004      0.67951
         1088       1.6367      0.69541
         1110        1.647      0.70642
         1200      0.66624      0.29534
         1290       1.6448      0.70453
         1312       1.6367      0.69588
         1382       1.6399      0.68105
         1404       1.5879      0.67669
         1494       1.6483      0.67859
         1516       1.6131      0.68782
         1586       1.4008      0.60633
         1608        1.661      0.65414
         1698       1.5469      0.66151
         1720       1.6507      0.67775
         1790       1.6309      0.69213
         1812       1.6425      0.70003
         1902      0.93502      0.41031

(ii) 22-teT scale

         cents      fine HE    ordinary HE
      -545.45       1.6362        0.693
      -490.91       1.4982      0.62514
      -436.36       1.6136      0.68818
      -381.82       1.5434      0.65703
      -327.27       1.6204      0.67687
      -272.73       1.6069      0.67972
      -218.18       1.6387      0.68654
      -163.64       1.6351       0.6938
      -109.09       1.6529      0.71348
      -54.545       1.7098      0.75443
            0            0            0
       54.545       1.7098      0.75443
       109.09       1.6529      0.71348
       163.64       1.6351       0.6938
       218.18       1.6387      0.68654
       272.73       1.6069      0.67972
       327.27       1.6204      0.67687
       381.82       1.5434      0.65703
       436.36       1.6136      0.68818
       490.91       1.4982      0.62514
       545.45       1.6362        0.693
          600        1.639      0.67904
       654.55       1.6533      0.70119
       709.09       1.3601      0.55604
       763.64        1.644      0.70204
       818.18       1.6019      0.68205
       872.73       1.5844      0.64978
       927.27        1.632      0.69098
       981.82       1.6223      0.67351
       1036.4       1.6337      0.68101
       1090.9       1.6377      0.69664
       1145.5       1.6782      0.72976
         1200      0.66624      0.29534
       1254.5       1.6753       0.7276
       1309.1       1.6382      0.69668
       1363.6       1.6159      0.68484
       1418.2       1.6344      0.68267
       1472.7       1.5561      0.65817
       1527.3       1.6298      0.69153
       1581.8       1.4306      0.60928
       1636.4         1.64      0.69406
       1690.9       1.5752       0.6631
       1745.5       1.6106      0.68387
         1800       1.6361      0.69546
       1854.5       1.6723      0.71355
       1909.1       1.1255      0.43155
       1963.6       1.6539      0.71382

(iii) the first 16 partials of a note (like C, for example)

         cents      fine HE    ordinary HE
            0            0            0
         1200      0.66624      0.29534
         1902      0.93501      0.41031
         2400       1.0891       0.4771
       2786.3       1.1808      0.51624
         3102       1.2533      0.54603
       3368.8       1.2999      0.56509
         3600        1.338       0.5821
       3803.9       1.3768      0.59527
       3986.3          1.4      0.60457
       4151.3       1.4267      0.61428
         4302       1.4463      0.62798
       4440.5       1.4536      0.62429
       4568.8       1.4719      0.63412
       4688.3       1.4777      0.63309
         4800       1.4912      0.64149

(iv) The distance between each of the adjescent shruti-s

I wonder -- isn't it rare to hear adjacent shruti-s played at the
same time?

Anyhow,

         cents      fine HE    ordinary HE
           22       5.9783       6.2964
           70       5.9782       6.6764
           90       5.9596       6.6555

(v) The distance between each of the adjescent chromatic JI notes

They should all appear below (?)

(vi) The various intervals (there are so many of them)

That appear in the shruti scale?

         cents      fine HE    ordinary HE
            0            0            0
           22       1.6846      0.36698
           70       1.6845      0.74699
           90        1.666      0.72601
           92       1.6642      0.72439
          112       1.6517      0.71196
          114        1.651      0.71095
          134       1.6468      0.70241
          180       1.6315      0.69084
          182       1.6314      0.69061
          202       1.6279      0.68869
          204       1.6288      0.68845
          224        1.629      0.68581
          226       1.6248      0.68557
          272       1.6048      0.67963
          274       1.6111      0.67991
          294       1.6476       0.6792
          296       1.6453      0.67843
          316        1.572      0.67198
          318        1.575       0.6723
          338       1.6456      0.68499
          364       1.6533      0.67784
          384       1.5323      0.65602
          386       1.5281      0.65559
          406       1.6489      0.67127
          408       1.6526      0.67357
          428       1.6227      0.68669
          430       1.6187      0.68712
          476       1.6577      0.65939
          478       1.6504      0.65437
          498       1.4394      0.61959
          500       1.4443      0.62007
          520       1.6571      0.66059
          522       1.6608      0.66562
          568       1.6343      0.68082
          588       1.5942      0.67499
          590       1.6026      0.67538
          610       1.6323       0.6837
          612       1.6288      0.68461
          632       1.6329        0.694
          678       1.6786      0.63778
          680       1.6688       0.6273
          700       1.2608      0.54523
          702       1.2515      0.54437
          722       1.6532       0.6177
          724       1.6698      0.62861
          770       1.6394      0.69876
          772       1.6376      0.69769
          792       1.6395      0.68719
          794       1.6404       0.6862
          814       1.5952      0.68118
          816        1.597      0.68151
          836       1.6433      0.69012
          862       1.6582      0.67092
          882       1.4882      0.63867
          884       1.4826      0.63804
          904       1.6487      0.66334
          906       1.6544      0.66726
          926       1.6334      0.69072
          928       1.6313      0.69107
          974       1.5783      0.66976
          976       1.5888      0.67049
          996       1.6473      0.68036
          998       1.6457      0.68077
         1018       1.6004      0.67951
         1020       1.6018      0.67939
         1066       1.6323      0.68784
         1086        1.636      0.69459
         1088       1.6367      0.69541
         1108       1.6457      0.70521
         1110        1.647      0.70642
         1130       1.6612      0.72165
         1178       1.6837      0.51067
         1200      0.66624      0.29534
         1222       1.6839      0.51024
         1270       1.6563      0.71918
         1290       1.6448      0.70453
         1292       1.6441      0.70345
         1312       1.6367      0.69588
         1314       1.6358      0.69537
         1334       1.6314      0.69084
         1380       1.6377      0.68167
         1382       1.6399      0.68105
         1402       1.5889      0.67645
         1404       1.5879      0.67669
         1424       1.6441      0.68544
         1426       1.6449      0.68609
         1472       1.5511      0.65781
         1474       1.5658      0.65891
         1494       1.6483      0.67859
         1496       1.6459      0.68017
         1516       1.6131      0.68782
         1518       1.6141      0.68836
         1538       1.6427      0.69465
         1564       1.6655      0.65715
         1584       1.4089      0.60714
         1586       1.4008      0.60633
         1606       1.6509      0.64784
         1608        1.661      0.65414
         1628       1.6481      0.69256
         1630       1.6459      0.69348
         1676       1.6467      0.67551
         1678       1.6446      0.67367
         1698       1.5469      0.66151
         1700       1.5496      0.66188
         1720       1.6507      0.67775
         1722       1.6518      0.67937
         1768       1.6409      0.68522
         1788       1.6294      0.69148
         1790       1.6309      0.69213
         1810        1.641      0.69919
         1812       1.6425      0.70003
         1832        1.652      0.71138
         1880       1.6771      0.56427
         1902      0.93502      0.41031
         1924       1.6795      0.56528
         1972       1.6467      0.70842
         1992       1.6372      0.69782
         1994       1.6369      0.69709
         2014       1.6351      0.69125
         2016       1.6365      0.69072
         2036       1.6195      0.68677
         2084       1.5744      0.67276
         2106       1.6483      0.68496
         2128       1.6379      0.69247
         2176       1.5187      0.63657
         2196       1.6566      0.67557
         2198       1.6546      0.67896
         2218       1.6352      0.69064
         2220       1.6369      0.68993
         2288       1.6159      0.68522
         2310       1.6362       0.6927
         2400       1.0891       0.4771

(vii) The various "jumps" using which a raga is imporvised.

They should all appear above (?)

> Let me add
>here, that a raga is never developed linearly and randomly: It is
>elaborated by expanding the 'area' created by reaching one note to
>the
>next note non-sequentially. Like Sa to Ma, Pa to Re, Dha to Ga, etc.

>There is a definite number of factors which contribute to the mood
>of a
>raga. This mood can be empirically studied in terms of these known
>factors. The information on RHE of the above, I feel intuitionally,
>will
>be very significant.

>Your insight in these matters will be very valuable.

>Thank you for your time and input,
>Haresh.

Looking forward to more,
Paul



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
harmonic_entropy-unsubscribe@egroups.com






Yahoo! Groups Links



Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:13 pm

avl3119
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #699 of 1055 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

... equivalent? The last two Words(?) were invented by Monzo. Sonance is not equivalence to cordance, because sonance is dependent on musical context and...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa...
Offline Send Email
Dec 30, 2003
8:33 am

... From: wallyesterpaulrus To: harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 8:33 AM Subject: [harmonic_entropy] Reply to Haresh ... ...
vilaalbert@...
avl3119
Offline Send Email
Dec 30, 2003
1:18 pm

... Indeed, there is more. Hello ALL, I request Paul and other Group members to test the veracity of the eight audacious statements I am making below. Your...
Haresh BAKSHI
hbakshi1
Offline Send Email
Dec 30, 2003
9:43 pm

Hi Haresh, I'm afraid we are losing one another. Before I attempt to address what you write below, perhaps you could go back to message #698 and answer my...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa...
Offline Send Email
Dec 31, 2003
8:51 pm

... veracity of the eight audacious statements I am making below. Your remarks will be very valuable. ... of a raga is a process in which every future note to...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa...
Offline Send Email
Dec 31, 2003
11:28 pm

... .............. ... Does not the statement (i) account for the pentatonic raga-s, for example, being so powerfully stable and dominant from "times...
Haresh BAKSHI
hbakshi1
Offline Send Email
Jan 3, 2004
12:24 am

... many questions. While I mull over your responses, I have the ... its ... notes ... some ... I remember reading that none of the pentatonic raga-s...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa...
Offline Send Email
Jan 3, 2004
2:10 am

... <wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote: ...................... Hi Paul, I re-read your reply carefully. The questions you have raised arose, I believe, because...
Haresh BAKSHI
hbakshi1
Offline Send Email
Dec 31, 2003
10:29 pm

... 11. ... Entropy. Well, from 4 to 5 for example, it seems you'd be lowering the harmonic entropy against a drone note at C4, but at the same time you'd be...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa...
Offline Send Email
Dec 31, 2003
11:18 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help