I am not sure what you are doing or why, but,  just a thought: When Neil Sanders
helped  rebuild my embouchure after a round with Bells Palsy he simply moved the
mouthpiece to the strongest muscles left.  He did not ever comment about two
thirds upper or half and half.

"We just need to use the strongest muscles you have left and build around them"
was his only comment.

Eric in Iowa

Mike.
Thanks for your reply.  I do have Wendell's book and DVD.  He makes the buzz
look so easy and I'm sure it is easy for him.  It was for me too before things
got screwed up. I can see his corners are supporting the buzz.  For me it takes
all the strength I can muster to keep a buzz going.
Arnold seems to downplay embouchure and focus on everything air.  I think
embouchure is more important for horn than it is for tuba.

Bill

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, Michael Wells <wellsweb62@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Bill,
>
> Let me be the first to recommend that you you run, don't walk, to Wendell
Rider's website and watch his video on "The Buzzy Buzz".
>
> http://www.wendellworld.com/html/BuzzyBuzz.html
>
> This is a great starting point. I would also recommend reading the notes from
an Arnold Jacobs master class posted by Julia Rose.
>
> http://www.juliashornpage.com/MasterClasses/ArnoldJacobs/tabid/65/Default.aspx
>
> Both of these resources will have you on the right track. I've gotten myself
tied up in many a knot about embouchure. I really do feel your pain. Keep things
as simple as possible. Stay in a comfortable range. Focus on making beautiful
music.
>
> Think about taking a few days off before you begin to re-work the embouchure.
Give the stressed muscles a chance to recover. Now is a good time to take a
break and reset everything.
>
> Keep us posted,
>
> Mike Wells, Fourth Horn, Chattanooga Symphony
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 12/22/09, hornman20012001 <flashbarn@...> wrote:
>
> From: hornman20012001 <flashbarn@...>
> Subject: [horn] dreaded embouchure change
> To: horn@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:08 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Hello all.  After years of getting nowhere I am going to make one more
valiant effort to get my chops back.  My gut instinct tells me I have to move my
mouthpiece placement to the more traditional 2/3 top lip etc. This was my
placement years ago when I considered myself a good player.  To make a long
story short I was given bad advice from a well meaning teacher many years ago
and ended up destroying my playing because of all the tinkering and changes I
went through.
>
>
>
> My main trouble is I have just about 0 strength in my corners when I try to
play the 2/3 top lip method.  The corners just do not want to hold the
embouchure together yet I can tell that if I had this necessary strength I would
be on the road to recovery.  Please do not recommend I find a good teacher. 
I've been down that road. Teachers in my neck of the woods don't seem to support
such an embouchure change.  It cost me lots of money and I made no progress.  I
have to do this on my own.
>
>
>
> My question for now is directed to people who have been through this
embouchure change.  Can you recall your corner muscles being so weak that you
can only hold notes for a beat or two even though your using proper breath
support?   Thanks, Bill from Pa.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi, Bill,

Let me be the first to recommend that you you run, don't walk, to Wendell
Rider's website and watch his video on "The Buzzy Buzz".

http://www.wendellworld.com/html/BuzzyBuzz.html

This is a great starting point. I would also recommend reading the notes from an
Arnold Jacobs master class posted by Julia Rose.

http://www.juliashornpage.com/MasterClasses/ArnoldJacobs/tabid/65/Default.aspx

Both of these resources will have you on the right track. I've gotten myself
tied up in many a knot about embouchure. I really do feel your pain. Keep things
as simple as possible. Stay in a comfortable range. Focus on making beautiful
music.

Think about taking a few days off before you begin to re-work the embouchure.
Give the stressed muscles a chance to recover. Now is a good time to take a
break and reset everything.

Keep us posted,

Mike Wells, Fourth Horn, Chattanooga Symphony



--- On Tue, 12/22/09, hornman20012001 <flashbarn@...> wrote:

From: hornman20012001 <flashbarn@...>
Subject: [horn] dreaded embouchure change
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 6:08 PM







 









       Hello all.  After years of getting nowhere I am going to make one more
valiant effort to get my chops back.  My gut instinct tells me I have to move my
mouthpiece placement to the more traditional 2/3 top lip etc. This was my
placement years ago when I considered myself a good player.  To make a long
story short I was given bad advice from a well meaning teacher many years ago
and ended up destroying my playing because of all the tinkering and changes I
went through.



My main trouble is I have just about 0 strength in my corners when I try to play
the 2/3 top lip method.  The corners just do not want to hold the embouchure
together yet I can tell that if I had this necessary strength I would be on the
road to recovery.  Please do not recommend I find a good teacher.  I've been
down that road. Teachers in my neck of the woods don't seem to support such an
embouchure change.  It cost me lots of money and I made no progress.  I have to
do this on my own.



My question for now is directed to people who have been through this embouchure
change.  Can you recall your corner muscles being so weak that you can only hold
notes for a beat or two even though your using proper breath support?   Thanks,
Bill from Pa.






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all.  After years of getting nowhere I am going to make one more valiant
effort to get my chops back.  My gut instinct tells me I have to move my
mouthpiece placement to the more traditional 2/3 top lip etc. This was my
placement years ago when I considered myself a good player.  To make a long
story short I was given bad advice from a well meaning teacher many years ago
and ended up destroying my playing because of all the tinkering and changes I
went through.

My main trouble is I have just about 0 strength in my corners when I try to play
the 2/3 top lip method.  The corners just do not want to hold the embouchure
together yet I can tell that if I had this necessary strength I would be on the
road to recovery.  Please do not recommend I find a good teacher.  I've been
down that road. Teachers in my neck of the woods don't seem to support such an
embouchure change.  It cost me lots of money and I made no progress.  I have to
do this on my own.

My question for now is directed to people who have been through this embouchure
change.  Can you recall your corner muscles being so weak that you can only hold
notes for a beat or two even though your using proper breath support?   Thanks,
Bill from Pa.

Sorry about the double posting to both groups, but since I've been inundated
with requests for this CD, I thought it best to let everyone know that I just
received shipment of the new Vienna Horns CD titled:
Director's Cut.
thanks!
Ken Pope
Http://www.poperepair.com/

It doesn't sound that great.  I think a wooden horn is a niche product to have
in the collection, but not to use as a real instrument.

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, Michiel van der Linden <corbasse@...> wrote:
>
> I just found the video where the trombone is played by a pro:
> http://www.youtube.com/user/58scallop#p/a/u/0/DzK50H2MGEc
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 20:58, Evan <evanjamesyoung@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > his daughter is not very good. :-) But Im sure the horn sounds great. Im
> > thinking it'll sound sort of like an alphorn.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Michiel van der Linden
> > <corbasse@... <corbasse%40gmail.com>>wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Well, why not, since his trombone does...
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsubSdolXVA&NR=1
> > >
> > > (Unfortunately my pc's audio is broken for the moment so I can hear _how_
> > > it
> > > sounds...)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 19:02, Daniel Canarutto
> > > <daniel.canarutto@... <daniel.canarutto%40unifi.it>>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Does it really play?
> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxX0igbPVxI
> > > >
> > > > Daniel
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Evan Young
> > FFSymphony Staff
> > www.ffsymphony.net
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I would like to nominate every horn being made in China as the "The 2009
Official Instrument of Clamsaa".  Sansones have served well and long but it
is time to move on.

Do I hear a second?

Leonard L. Brown

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <norzemen@...> wrote:
>
> I just played this last spring. I didn't go home and retry the passage, but I
don't remember there being too much of an issue. I agree with Johnathan, however
take a catch Breath in the slur to keep the phrase intact.
>
> Here is a great resource for identifying what some pros have done if you can
hear where their breath might be:
http://www.hornexcerpts.org/excerpt_pages/tchaikS4/tchaikS4_3.html
>
> I would also look these solos up on youtube. Sometimes the camera is focued on
the hornists and you can pick out the various way solos are played and where
they breath.
>

These are interesting to listen to. Tempo makes a big difference. Actually, i
think it is possible to play the phrasing correctly and not break any slurs.
Although i am usually one to keep weak (arsis) notes connected to strong
(thesis) notes despite articulations, I think this particular excerpt is
something of an exception to the "rule," and we can use that to our benefit.

One thing we do want to avoid is a run-on sentence. String players run-on a lot
like in the opening of the 1812 Overture, because they can, but it is not always
done to musical effect because people don't like gratuitous run-on phrases any
more than run on sentences. Composers write phrases that most often mimic the
words we sing or speak partly because it is more pleasing to the audience and
because it just makes sense to the listener. So don't be afraid of the catch
breath. Just make sure it is silent. By opening the mouth, most people think
corners, you can get a lot of air in in an instant.

You also must consider that the audience is literally breathing along with you,
whether they know it or not. Playing in a way that makes the audience notice how
long you have gone without a breath can be uncomfortable and distracting for
them. It is also most often accompanied by lack of phrasing. That effect should
be used sparingly, as in the note that is often broken as we go into the second 
big phrase at the end of the 4th measure. This is obviously a chance to take a
breath, but I prefer to use the "extension" into the second half as an
expressive gesture.

The triplet theme of quarters slurred to the 8th notes, as in the 2nd measure,
is an important thematic part of this movement so I would be hesitant to break
them up just to phrase ahead. This is one of those times when both rules make
sense but the actual melody does follow the articulation here, which is often
not the case. So I am going to try to play the melody, which is basically 4
bars, with as little disruption as possible at the half way point, but i am
going to use that half way point to cover a breath if i need one.

There are two basic places, four in all, to take quick breaths that can get you
through the solo without without breaking any slurs or losing the phrasing. You
take a big breath initially and then use catch breaths to make it through.

The first is after the second or fifth bar. This way you are restating the theme
in its entirety, rather than chopping off the last note if you take a breath
there. Practice making the catch breath breath without cutting off the eighth
note preceding it so it is not noticed by the audience. Notes before breaths are
always very important and often not finished as well as they should be.
Listening to the different recordings, some of the players did not phrase the
eighth notes well to the quarters in a true triplet rhythm some of the time. If
you do that correctly to set the phrasing, a quick breath will not be noticed. I
know it sounds counterintuitive, but give it a try. Work on it. Sell it.

You can do it the second time it comes up if you need to or JUST the second time
if you don't need the first one in the greater scheme of things. Just remember
that we are trying to pace this for multiple breaths rather than trying to
stretch our breaths out. Whatever you do, don't cut the eighth notes short. Lead
them to the next quarter without rushing them. The eighth notes are the
expressive notes in this excerpt.

The second place, that again, can be used both times, is after the high F, since
this is where the phrase seems to be leading to the audience. A quick catch
breath after the high note will not be noticed if you do it right and play the
following notes very melodically and leading ahead to the downbeat.

It is very possible to play all the way to the first high F on the first breath
and then use the 2 remaining catch breaths to finish. Remember that if you play
it like you really mean it, the audience will go with you. That means you must
decide on whatever you are doing ahead of time and make that your musical,
expressive statement. If it sounds like you are just trying to make it through,
it will not sound purposeful, which means it will not sound expressive.

OK, enough writing. It's a little out of the box, but this kind of thinking can
save you in other pieces as well..

Wendell

I just found the video where the trombone is played by a pro:
http://www.youtube.com/user/58scallop#p/a/u/0/DzK50H2MGEc

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 20:58, Evan <evanjamesyoung@...> wrote:

>
>
> his daughter is not very good. :-) But Im sure the horn sounds great. Im
> thinking it'll sound sort of like an alphorn.
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Michiel van der Linden
> <corbasse@... <corbasse%40gmail.com>>wrote:
>
>
> > Well, why not, since his trombone does...
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsubSdolXVA&NR=1
> >
> > (Unfortunately my pc's audio is broken for the moment so I can hear _how_
> > it
> > sounds...)
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 19:02, Daniel Canarutto
> > <daniel.canarutto@... <daniel.canarutto%40unifi.it>>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does it really play?
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxX0igbPVxI
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Evan Young
> FFSymphony Staff
> www.ffsymphony.net
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group:

For what it's worth:  just checked Luck's website--they do have the OP3 No. 4
concerto for 2 hrns, timps, strings, and B.C.  I thought I'd remembered
correctly that they did.

Richard Bingham
Principal Horn Iowa City Community Band
E-Mail:  WW0Q@...
 
Opinions expressed herein are strictly my own and may not necessairly reflect
the views, opinons, or policies of others.

-----Original Message-----
From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bingham,
Richard D
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 5:32 PM
To: 'horn@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [horn] Re;Barsanti Horn Concertos

The only other Barsanti that I'm familiar with used a solo trumpet with strings.
And, yes, I'd agree with you on the two horns and strings (with tympani)
concerto.  It strikes me as being quite trumpet like--and I have (in my own
mind) questioned whether horns were actually intended instead of trumpets.

Back in the dark ages--I won't say how dark, a colleague (who was a trumpet
player) and I (doubling on 2nd trumpet) did a read through of the first
movement.  It seemed to me to fit rather well actually which tended to support
my supposition.  But I suppose if one were to look far enough (especially in the
Baroque era) one might find such unusual combinations of instruments.

Richard Bingham
Principal Horn Iowa City Community Band
E-Mail:  WW0Q@...
 
Opinions expressed herein are strictly my own and may not necessairly reflect
the views, opinons, or policies of others.

-----Original Message-----
From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dalleyhn
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:13 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Re;Barsanti Horn Concertos

According to the Dalley Horn Catalogue - 2006 Edition the Barsanti Horn concerto
probably is available only in  miniature score from Edition Eulenberg,
London-Zurich #776. Barsanti wrote two Concerti Grosso for Strings, 2 Horns and
Tympani. Opus 3 #4 (Recorded by Stagliano) and Opus 3 #10. I have owned the
score for many - many years. I have never extracted the parts mostly because I
was not impressed with the horn parts. They are more like trumpet parts of music
from that era. If you are absolutely unable to obtain the music from any source,
contact me at Dalleyhn@... anf I will lend you the miniature acore.
Contact David Thompson. He has sources in Europe and might be able to find
parts. I think that Eulenberg - Zurich published parts a long time ago, however
I have only seen parts for Opus 3 #10. Regards.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

his daughter is not very good. :-) But Im sure the horn sounds great. Im
thinking it'll sound sort of like an alphorn.

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Michiel van der Linden
<corbasse@...>wrote:

> Well, why not, since his trombone does...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsubSdolXVA&NR=1
>
> (Unfortunately my pc's audio is broken for the moment so I can hear _how_
> it
> sounds...)
>
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 19:02, Daniel Canarutto
> <daniel.canarutto@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Does it really play?
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxX0igbPVxI
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Evan Young
FFSymphony Staff
www.ffsymphony.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, why not, since his trombone does...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsubSdolXVA&NR=1

(Unfortunately my pc's audio is broken for the moment so I can hear _how_ it
sounds...)

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 19:02, Daniel Canarutto
<daniel.canarutto@...>wrote:

>
>
> Does it really play?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxX0igbPVxI
>
> Daniel
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve Ovitsky wrote:

    I live in Santa Fe, NM - elevation 7,000 ft. (2100 m) - and see a noticeable
    increase in the number of breaths I need to play a phrase or hold a long
    note. For every 1,000 ft. of altitude the air has about 3% less oxygen, so
    while you are taking in as much air by volume, you have 21% less oxygen to
    sustain you through a long phrase.

There is an unstated assumption behind your (Ovitsky's) analysis.
Citing a statistic without establishing a connection between the
statistic and the phenomena to be explained is more pseudo science than
science.

If is is correct that there is 21% less oxygen per unit volume at your
altitude, it is also the case that there is 21% less CO2, 21% less
Nitorgen, 21% less Argon, etc.  The unfounded assumption that it is
oxygen that is the limitation in how long a note can be held.  In my
experience this is untrue, or at least very rarely true.

The orge to breath is



Normal respiration is driven mostly by the levels of carbon dioxide in
The Arteries ... and very little by the oxygen levels.
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxic_drive



    BTW- the same situation applies to car engines, which is why turbocharging
    is popular if you want any sense of power for accelerating or climbing.

Does it really play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxX0igbPVxI

Daniel

Thanks for your input, Kerry. Something else to think about ... 2 or 3 times a
year I play in an orchestra pit. I make it a point to know how to get out in a
hurry if something should happen. Many times, the entry to a pit is just like a
rat maze (insert your viola joke here) and the passageway leading to it doubles
as a storage area, with lots of stuff to trip over. And, if there ever is a
reason to vacate the pit, there's a good chance that the lights will be off. At
one place, the pit was so crowded that once everyone was in, tympani was moved
to block the lone entry/exit point. The way out of the pit would be to get a
boost from someone (see, weight lifting CAN come in handy) and climb onto the
stage. OSHA would have had a field day with that place.

Bill






--- On Mon, 12/21/09, Kerry Thompson <alpha@...> wrote:





Ah, Marty, you're a feisty old curmudgeon ;-)



I agree with John Dutton and others. Sure, you can sue, but it should be a

last resort. Here are a few things to bear in mind.



- The venu may be a school or municipal facility, staffed by volunteers.

    Quite possibly, no one has called the administrator' s attention to the

    situation.



Put yourself in the administrator' s position. You're a decent guy who means

no harm, and you're willing to (1) pay for repairs on the horn, and (2) fix

the safety hazard. IMHO, it would be better to solve the problem amicably

and move on.



- Somebody pointed out that the facility probably has insurance. Here's

    something that is little known--even if the facility is unwilling to file a

    claim with their insurance company, you can. You don't have to be the one

    paying the insurance premiums to file a claim. Believe me, if an insurance

    company has to pay a claim, they will make sure hte facility is safe so they

    don't have to pay more claims.



- A lawsuit is time-consuming and expensive, both for the litigant and

    the defendant. I wouldn't want to get bogged down in legal matters if there

    is another solution. I'd rather spend the time in concert than in court.



- Even if you win, can you collect?  A lot of civil cases go unpaid

    simply because the litigant doesn't have the resources to force payment, or

    the defendant doesn't have the money to pay it.



- If you win, and collect, what have you accomplished that you couldn't

    have with a less punitive approach? If the facility pays for the damage and

    medical costs, and fixes the safety problem, what more do you want?



- As Conja pointed out, if you sue, you may find that you are no longer

    welcome at that facility. That may extend to other civic groups.



I live in a small Boston suburb, Melrose. We have a civic auditorium, a

wonderful old building, where the Melrose Symphony plays. It has been a

struggle just to keep it open. A lawsuit like this would probably result in

the facility being shut down.



Thinking it through is better than the "ready, fire, aim" approach.



Cordially,.




Kerry Thompson









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are lots of concertos for two horns and orchestra.  . . I have posted a
pdf of the horn parts for my own concerto for two horns.

See:  http://www.i-ching-music.com/opus60.html

At the bottom you'll find a link to download the parts

Wile you're there check out my duets opus 132:

http://www.i-ching-music.com/opus132.html

Richard Burdick

Martin Williams Sr. wrote:

> I think they should buy her a new horn. Then they'll get things backstage
> fix. If this had happened to me when I was a full time professional I would
> immediately gotten a lawyer and sued the pants off of them.
>

Ah, Marty, you're a feisty old curmudgeon ;-)

I agree with John Dutton and others. Sure, you can sue, but it should be a
last resort. Here are a few things to bear in mind.


    - The venu may be a school or municipal facility, staffed by volunteers.
    Quite possibly, no one has called the administrator's attention to the
    situation.

Put yourself in the administrator's position. You're a decent guy who means
no harm, and you're willing to (1) pay for repairs on the horn, and (2) fix
the safety hazard. IMHO, it would be better to solve the problem amicably
and move on.

    - Somebody pointed out that the facility probably has insurance. Here's
    something that is little known--even if the facility is unwilling to file a
    claim with their insurance company, you can. You don't have to be the one
    paying the insurance premiums to file a claim. Believe me, if an insurance
    company has to pay a claim, they will make sure hte facility is safe so they
    don't have to pay more claims.


    - A lawsuit is time-consuming and expensive, both for the litigant and
    the defendant. I wouldn't want to get bogged down in legal matters if there
    is another solution. I'd rather spend the time in concert than in court.


    - Even if you win, can you collect?  A lot of civil cases go unpaid
    simply because the litigant doesn't have the resources to force payment, or
    the defendant doesn't have the money to pay it.


    - If you win, and collect, what have you accomplished that you couldn't
    have with a less punitive approach? If the facility pays for the damage and
    medical costs, and fixes the safety problem, what more do you want?


    - As Conja pointed out, if you sue, you may find that you are no longer
    welcome at that facility. That may extend to other civic groups.

I live in a small Boston suburb, Melrose. We have a civic auditorium, a
wonderful old building, where the Melrose Symphony plays. It has been a
struggle just to keep it open. A lawsuit like this would probably result in
the facility being shut down.

Thinking it through is better than the "ready, fire, aim" approach.

Cordially,.

Kerry Thompson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think they should buy her a new horn. Then they'll get things backstage fix.
If this had happened to me when I was a full time professional I would
immediately gotten a lawyer and sued the pants off of them. Show them this
email, as any professional would have done the same.
Always remember this: With any dangerous situation: --- It's not IF it's going
to happen, it's WHEN it's going to happen ---. Marty

--- On Sat, 12/19/09, wells123456@... <wells123456@...> wrote:

> From: wells123456@... <wells123456@...>
> Subject: [horn] RE:  A terrible incident, follow up
> To: horn@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, December 19, 2009, 4:01 AM
> My friend's injuries turned out to be
> minor and are healing w/o needing medical
> intervention.  The miracle of miracles is that ONLY the
> bell of her horn was damaged in the fall.  The bell
> took ALL the impact of the fall which is what saved her from
> injury.  She picked up her horn from the shop today and
> says it looks perfectly normal, except for a small oval
> patch.  (But she hasn't played it, yet.)  She's
> planning to contact the facility owners about the incident
> and I've offered to accompany her as a witness to the
> incident, since I was the first one to find her after the
> fall.  She's going to ask for the owners to pay for the
> horn repair and take measures to make the back stage
> safe.     
>
> Valerie Wells
> http://bebabe.wordpress.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     horn-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

Now, the shortest day of the year the Winter Solstice having beings of, my
duties as Grand Poobah of the Kopprascharian Kult having responsibilities
of, I  the announcements and proclaimings of in the mostest, joyfullestest
of noises am making for this, the opening day of CLAMSAA for another year,
and I have composed a new CLAMTHEM for our occaissionings:

(To the tune of "It's Beginning to Look Like Christmas")

It’s  Beginning to Sound Like Clamsaa
It’s beginning to sound a  lot like Clamsaa
Ev’rywhere you  go;
Take a listen to  Nutcracker, for the twenty-first time this  week,
With all the shiny French  horns in a row.
It’s beginning to sound a  lot like Clamsaa,
Toy soldiers prancing  ‘round.
But the messiest sound to  hear, is the flower waltz so dear,
With schplats and phrapps  and schpleahs hailing down!

The brass quintet at the  mall, is clamming off the wall
Yamaha Silent Brass would  help;
Christmas Pops at the  concert hall, is a messy event in all
Sleigh Ride horse neigh  is just a yelp.

It’s beginning to sound a  lot like Clamsaa
Ev’rywhere you  go;
The pep band at the  hockey game, has mellophones aflame,
Bell front Schpladats are  the loudest clams I know.
It’s beginning to sound a  lot like Clamsaa;
Clams are  everywhere,
You think your mouthpiece  is the fault, you are thinking all for  naught
Kopprasch is the answer,  I swear!


Mostest of Seasonings Greetonings and Happiestest and Safestest of Holidays
  to All!!!

Prof. I. M.  Gestopftmitscheist
Principal 8th horn and Principal 4th Wagner Tuber,  Schplittenotendorf am
Oedland Staatsoper und Philharmoniker, (ret.)
Solo  Horn, Bad Corner Brass Quintet
Hornist, Broken Winds WW  Quintet
Solo 4th Horn (Leader, call me for bookings), Smirnoff Horn  Quartet
Assistant Associate Principal Mellophone, NJ Turnpike Authority Drum  and
Bugle Corps, "The Phantom Lane Changers" (ret., bad knees)
Hornist as  Needed, L'Ensemble du Chambre des Palourdes
Principal Natural Horn, I  Soloisti di Feces
Principal Baroque and Hunting Horn, Camarata  Vongoleforte
Adjunct, Part-time, Arms-length Professor of Horn and Pest  Control, Exit 2
Community College, Exit 2, NJ (Ret.)
Adjunct, Part-time,  Arms-length Professor of Horn, Pest Control and Home
Petroleum  Studies, Northern New Hampshire Technical Institute, Bad Corner,
NH
Author, "The Kopprasch Connection," "Kopprasch for Fun and Profit,"
"Kopprasch for the New Millenium: Where Do you Fit In?" "Hooked on Hornonics,"
"The Lexicon of Clamology" and "The DaVinci Clam: Was Kopprasch God's Other
Son?"
Founder, Director and CEO, Universal Institute for the Study,  Preservation
and Dissemination of Kopprasch Throughout the Solar  System
Founder and Guru Extraordinaire, Clammers Anonymous (a twelve half  step
program)
Grand Poobah of the Koppraschian Kult
Director and Program  Manager, The All Kopprasch Channel (AKC), Kopprasch
Public Radio (KPR)
Host  of The Kopprasch Factor on AKC and All Kopprasch Considered on  KPR
Owner-Operator, Bad Corner Petroleum Laboratory, "The Worlds Largest  Valve
Oil Factory"
Founder and Disseminator of CLAMSAA, the Universal Holiday  for Horn Players
Interplanetarily Known Soloist and Artist of  Record
Exclusive Anborg, Bundy, Carl Fischer, Olds Ambassador, Sansone,  Val*Mart
and Conn Artist Who Does Not Get His Horns For  Free


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The only other Barsanti that I'm familiar with used a solo trumpet with strings.
And, yes, I'd agree with you on the two horns and strings (with tympani)
concerto.  It strikes me as being quite trumpet like--and I have (in my own
mind) questioned whether horns were actually intended instead of trumpets.

Back in the dark ages--I won't say how dark, a colleague (who was a trumpet
player) and I (doubling on 2nd trumpet) did a read through of the first
movement.  It seemed to me to fit rather well actually which tended to support
my supposition.  But I suppose if one were to look far enough (especially in the
Baroque era) one might find such unusual combinations of instruments.

Richard Bingham
Principal Horn Iowa City Community Band
E-Mail:  WW0Q@...
 
Opinions expressed herein are strictly my own and may not necessairly reflect
the views, opinons, or policies of others.

-----Original Message-----
From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dalleyhn
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:13 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Re;Barsanti Horn Concertos

According to the Dalley Horn Catalogue - 2006 Edition the Barsanti Horn concerto
probably is available only in  miniature score from Edition Eulenberg,
London-Zurich #776. Barsanti wrote two Concerti Grosso for Strings, 2 Horns and
Tympani. Opus 3 #4 (Recorded by Stagliano) and Opus 3 #10. I have owned the
score for many - many years. I have never extracted the parts mostly because I
was not impressed with the horn parts. They are more like trumpet parts of music
from that era. If you are absolutely unable to obtain the music from any source,
contact me at Dalleyhn@... anf I will lend you the miniature acore.
Contact David Thompson. He has sources in Europe and might be able to find
parts. I think that Eulenberg - Zurich published parts a long time ago, however
I have only seen parts for Opus 3 #10. Regards.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

There are lots of concertos for two horns and orchestra. The Dalley Horn
Catalogue - 2006 edition lists more than 100. A good choice is the concerto by
Haydn - published by KA-WE (Hans Pizka). Lots of good parts for both players.
The Concerto is actually by Antonio Rosetti (who wrote at least 5 concertos for
two horns). Other composers from the same era wrote 2 horn concertos ( Fiala,
Witt, Andre, Braun, Dornaus, Hoffmeister, Van den broeck, et al). One truly
interesting work worth playing is Thea Musgrave's Night Music - published J & W
Chester. Regards.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

According to the Dalley Horn Catalogue - 2006 Edition the Barsanti Horn concerto
probably is available only in  miniature score from Edition Eulenberg,
London-Zurich #776. Barsanti wrote two Concerti Grosso for Strings, 2 Horns and
Tympani. Opus 3 #4 (Recorded by Stagliano) and Opus 3 #10. I have owned the
score for many - many years. I have never extracted the parts mostly because I
was not impressed with the horn parts. They are more like trumpet parts of music
from that era. If you are absolutely unable to obtain the music from any source,
contact me at Dalleyhn@... anf I will lend you the miniature acore.
Contact David Thompson. He has sources in Europe and might be able to find
parts. I think that Eulenberg - Zurich published parts a long time ago, however
I have only seen parts for Opus 3 #10. Regards.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Ovitsky" <sotone@...> wrote:
>
> The LP was issued on the Kapp label with various numbers (KC 9053, KTK
> 49009) and later on MCA. It was also issued in UK on Decca Ace of Clubs.

The KTK 49009 that I have is a four-track stereo (i.e., quarter track) reel to
reel issue. The tape has the Stagliano, Berv, Buffington recording on one side
and the Shulman oboe LP on the other. The sound is quite good, too, in my
experience fairly unusual for quarter track pre-recorded tapes.

The horn playing is fantastic, though it would not be considered stylish by
today's standards.

Howard Sanner
hornlist@...

Hi Richard,

That modified 1974 BMW 2002 went to the great junk yard in the sky in about
1983. With all the unpaved roads here in Santa Fe, a Subaru Forester has
worked well.  Unfortunately, mine is normally aspirated and really feels
underpowered when climbing the local mountain road up to 10,000 ft.

Steve







   _____

From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:08 AM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Re: Holding long notes.... Horn 2nd instrument, guitar first





Steve Ovitsky wrote:

I live in Santa Fe, NM - elevation 7,000 ft. (2100 m) - and see a noticeable
increase in the number of breaths I need to play a phrase or hold a long
note. For every 1,000 ft. of altitude the air has about 3% less oxygen, so
while you are taking in as much air by volume, you have 21% less oxygen to
sustain you through a long phrase.

BTW- the same situation applies to car engines, which is why turbocharging
is popular if you want any sense of power for accelerating or climbing.

-------

As I recall you were fond of turbocharging and otherwise souping up
BMW's before you moved to Santa Fe.

Richard Hirsh





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve Ovitsky wrote:

I live in Santa Fe, NM - elevation 7,000 ft. (2100 m) - and see a noticeable
increase in the number of breaths I need to play a phrase or hold a long
note. For every 1,000 ft. of altitude the air has about 3% less oxygen, so
while you are taking in as much air by volume, you have 21% less oxygen to
sustain you through a long phrase.

BTW- the same situation applies to car engines, which is why turbocharging
is popular if you want any sense of power for accelerating or climbing.

-------

As I recall you were fond of turbocharging and otherwise souping up
BMW's before you moved to Santa Fe.

Richard Hirsh

pjacksion449 wrote:

HI Jack- I have been away for few days, thus my delay in responding. The
horn I wish to sell is a King, model 1159, built between 70-75. Very
similar to a Conn 8D, wonderful tone. It is in excellent condition,
hardly a ding on it, valves still tight. I was hoping for $1500, but I
may be hoping for to much.

-------

I have worked on a number of King 1159 horns, and they are nice
instruments when in good shape. IMO they play nothing like Conn 8D's
although both designs are modeled after the Fritz Kruspe model full
double.  The initial version of the 1159 was likely designed at least in
part by Forster Reynolds before he left King to form his own company.
Your horn is of the second form of the model. The earlier version has
the thumb valve reversed from the finger valves and has a rather large
grip. The second form has all valves aligned the same direction and can
be set up for a small hand. Horns from the 1970's have better made
valves than many of the older models.

The most I have ever gotten for a King 1159 on hornplayer.net was $1200,
and that was for an exceptionally well preserved instrument from the
1930's. If your horn is in top shape, you may be able to get a bit more
than $1000 for it; in less than top shape, less. There are several
listed for less than $1000 last I looked (including an 1160 (silver) of
mine).

Regards,
Richard Hirsh

The LP was issued on the Kapp label with various numbers (KC 9053, KTK
49009) and later on MCA. It was also issued in UK on Decca Ace of Clubs.



MUSIC FOR FRENCH HORN AND ORCHESTRA

James Stagliano, Arthur Berv & James Buffington, Horn

Kapp Sinfonietta,  Richard Dunn, conductor



Telemann  Concerto in D (1 horn) - composer identified as  Steinmetz

Telemann  Suite in F (2 Horns)

Telemann:  Concerto in D (3 Horns)

Handel: Concerto in F (2 Horns)

Barsanti  Concerto in D (2 horns)



Arthur Berv played 2nd and Jim Buffington played 3rd.



Cheers,

Steve



Steven Ovitsky



==================



Francesco Barsanti. Later than Vivaldi, earlier than Michael Haydn. Hazy

recollection that it's for two horns, strings, and continuo. There was a

Gold Crest LP issued in the late 50s or early 60s that included this

concerto. Richard Kapp conducting. I think one of the hornplayers was

Stagliano





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I remember correctly its Arthur Berv as the other horn on the Gold Crest
record. I'm too lazy to go find it but I do have it.

Barbara
Barbara Oldham
Director
Quintet of the Americas
quintet@...
www.quintet.org

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Bingham, Richard D
   To: 'horn@yahoogroups.com'
   Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 9:36 PM
   Subject: RE: [horn] Horn Concertos



   Richard:

   Your recollection is quite good. Stagliano was on first horn. However, though
a work for two horns and strings (and don't forget the tympani), it is more of a
piece for horn one occasionally assisted by horn two. Still it's rather
approachable and isn't necessarily difficult. 2nd movement is typical for a
baroque brass concerto in that it's scored for strings alone. Third movement is
a minuet. Been many years since I played it.

   Richard Bingham
   Principal Horn Iowa City Community Band
   E-Mail:  WW0Q@...

   Opinions expressed herein are strictly my own and may not necessairly reflect
the views, opinons, or policies of others.

   -----Original Message-----
   From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard
V. West
   Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:06 PM
   To: horn@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [horn] Horn Concertos

   Francesco Barsanti. Later than Vivaldi, earlier than Michael Haydn. Hazy
   recollection that it's for two horns, strings, and continuo. There was a
   Gold Crest LP issued in the late 50s or early 60s that included this
   concerto. Richard Kapp conducting. I think one of the hornplayers was
   Stagliano

   Richard in Seattle

   psiguy09 wrote:
   > Can anyone recommend a concerto for two horns and orchestra OTHER than the
Haydn? A friend of mine and I have an opportunity to play one with a local
chamber orchestra.
   >
   > I know the Leopold Mozart (Wolfgang's Dad) wrote a concerto for two horns
and strings in D that is really nice (it's been a while since I've heard it and
I can't find sheet music or CD for it. NO I'm not imagining it!)
   >
   > So let the recommendations fly!
   >
   > Dan
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------------
   >
   > Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >

   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robert:

Luck or Kalmus may have had it at one point in time.  Otherwise Eulenberg
published a miniature score at one point.  Sounds as if this could be a job for
Finale or Sibelius...

Richard Bingham
Principal Horn Iowa City Community Band
E-Mail:  WW0Q@...
 
Opinions expressed herein are strictly my own and may not necessairly reflect
the views, opinons, or policies of others.


-----Original Message-----
From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Ballinger
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 4:24 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [horn] Horn Concertos

I know the Barsanti. I've been looking for the horn parts to this concerto for
years. Anyone know if it is available?

Thanks,
Robert


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Richard V. West
   To: horn@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:06 PM
   Subject: Re: [horn] Horn Concertos



   Francesco Barsanti. Later than Vivaldi, earlier than Michael Haydn. Hazy
   recollection that it's for two horns, strings, and continuo. There was a
   Gold Crest LP issued in the late 50s or early 60s that included this
   concerto. Richard Kapp conducting. I think one of the hornplayers was
   Stagliano

   Richard in Seattle

   psiguy09 wrote:
   > Can anyone recommend a concerto for two horns and orchestra OTHER than the
Haydn? A friend of mine and I have an opportunity to play one with a local
chamber orchestra.
   >
   > I know the Leopold Mozart (Wolfgang's Dad) wrote a concerto for two horns
and strings in D that is really nice (it's been a while since I've heard it and
I can't find sheet music or CD for it. NO I'm not imagining it!)
   >
   > So let the recommendations fly!
   >
   > Dan
   >
   >
   >
   > ------------------------------------
   >
   > Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Richard:

Your recollection is quite good.  Stagliano was on first horn.  However, though
a work for two horns and strings (and don't forget the tympani), it is more of a
piece for horn one occasionally assisted by horn two.  Still it's rather
approachable and isn't necessarily difficult.  2nd movement is typical for a
baroque brass concerto in that it's scored for strings alone.  Third movement is
a minuet.  Been many years since I played it.

Richard Bingham
Principal Horn Iowa City Community Band
E-Mail:  WW0Q@...
 
Opinions expressed herein are strictly my own and may not necessairly reflect
the views, opinons, or policies of others.

-----Original Message-----
From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard V.
West
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 2:06 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [horn] Horn Concertos

Francesco Barsanti. Later than Vivaldi, earlier than Michael Haydn. Hazy
recollection that it's for two horns, strings, and continuo. There was a
Gold Crest LP issued in the late 50s or early 60s that included this
concerto. Richard Kapp conducting. I think one of the hornplayers was
Stagliano

Richard in Seattle

psiguy09 wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a concerto for two horns and orchestra OTHER than the
Haydn?  A friend of mine and I have an opportunity to play one with a local
chamber orchestra.
>
> I know the Leopold Mozart (Wolfgang's Dad) wrote a concerto for two horns and
strings in D that is really nice (it's been a while since I've heard it and I
can't find sheet music or CD for it.  NO I'm not imagining it!)
>
> So let the recommendations fly!
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links