A few distinguished members of this list have made references to the difference
in bell density between the pre-letter 8D's and the C thru N series horns. The
pre-letter horns, having a heavier bell, have or seem to have a superior sound.

Question:  Would silver plating a letter series bell make a significant
difference in weight, sound, and resonance, thus making the types more
comparable?

Thanks,
Charles Renfro

In a message dated 2/28/03 4:16:02 AM, tammytreon@... writes:

<< hi my name is tammy and iam in 9th grade and play french horn.
I have a horrible problem with playing notes not short enough do you have any
exercises  that i could do to help me? I would greatly  appreciate it .
  >>

Experiment with how short you can sing or speak a syllable; such as ta   ta
ta   ta   or   tu    tu    tu     tu        Then speed it up, getting the
syllables closer together like this:   tatatata   or tutututu       Your
articulation on the horn will be very similar, but make sure you don't
actually sing into the horn.   Your tongue motion and breath will be very
much LIKE singing, however.   I suspect you may also need to work on how you
start the notes.   It is sort of like spitting a crumb off your lip.  Sort of
a refined "ptooie!"    Try it.  It might help.

CORdially,  Mansur's Answers

Another point to consider is the size/shape of the bell flair. The
big wide bell of the 8D spreads the sound rapidly which is fine for
recording/performing in a relatively small room, but you need extra
power to project in a concert hall. A smaller flair might make it easier
to project in a concert hall.

Loren Mayhew
\@()
Loren@...
(520) 403-6897


-----Original Message-----
From: Ortho Wingnut [mailto:orthowingnut@...]
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:55 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Re: Buying a new horn

Joe Kaluza writes that he wants to get a Geyer-type
horn in place of his "Good old 8D" because of
instructor pressure and because his 8D can't cut
through a section of Geyers.

1.  It might be the Indian and not the arrow.  I have
     many a hornist who chucked their old 8D because
     they thought the Geyer-type horn would cut better,
     only to find that the Geyer does not cut that
     much better if at all, that it was more in their
     manner of playing or their mouthpiece than the
    horn.

     Evidence:  I know plenty of 8D players who have
absolutely no problem making themselves heard, even in
a section of small-belled brass horns!!!!!

2.  Although some people like the 10D, 11D, etc., I am
     not one of their fans.  I've thought since they
     came out that they played more like old 6D's than
     like anything Geyer/Schmidt.  (Okay, I won't be
     polite.  I do not like anything Eastlake, except
     for paperweights or flowerpots.)

3.  If I were you I'd keep the 8D, because any good
     horn is hard to find...plus you have to first get
     used to a new horn to judge if it's going to work,
     and that can take a while.

     Then save your pennies for a custom horn.

      John Orzel


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Here's another question regarding short notes--or any notes at all,
really...

Often when I articulate a note my lips don't respond immediately --
there's a split second of air, or sometimes a scratchy sound, before
the note begins. It's not a frack (sp??) really, just a slight delay
before a tone begins. This is especially a problem for very short
notes becuase the duration of the note has passed by the time my lips
respond. I've tried practicing breath attacks but I get the same
result -- a slight delay before the lips respond. Any suggestions on
how can I work on getting my lips to respond immediately?

There have been several posts on the subject of short tonguing lately so I
thought I would add my $.02 worth (well maybe $.05). I was taught by an
excellent trumpet player to cut notes off with my tongue at a very early
age. As I progressed through my training, I found that no one else approved
of this method and many, including Farkas, admonished me never to do this.
The thing is that all this time people really liked my staccato, and, try as
I might, I could never duplicate the quality or control of my staccato with
any other method. It was also difficult to find a good teaching method that
worked as well or was as clear as the method I already used. So years later,
when I was playing a job with my old teacher I asked him if he still
recommended cutting the notes off with the tongue and he said "of course"
plus a few other things. I started asking around. I talked to wind players
of all sorts and even string players. Most would never admit to cutting off
notes with the tongue although it often sounded to me as if they might be
doing it. A flute player was adamant that this was REALLY a bad thing and it
was nowhere in the flute pedagogy. Of course there are many examples of
great players who do use this technique- Brain, Civil, Baumann and many
flute players, including Julius Baker.
I believe that you should have many ways at your disposal to create the
sounds you need for musical expression. The final result is what counts.
Most people who are against cutting off the notes with the tongue object to
the very sec sound that comes from a hard tongue release without sufficient
vowel sound or air/vibration on the note. (Hey, nobody wants to listen to
that, so I understand the objections.) This would be written as dt or tt.
The secret of a great tongue release is to make sure you have a vowel sound
in the middle of the two consonants (doot or toot) and that there is enough
air getting through. Otherwise, it is like having a sandwich with out the
filling- pretty dry.
The main advantages to learning and teaching this method is that you have
complete control of the length of the note and the strength and quality of
the attack and release and you don't have to disrupt your air stream except
with the tongue. Needless to say, this is a BIG advantage. I've gotten in
trouble before for advocating this, but, after doing the research, I have
found more teachers, including Kendall Betts and Keith Underwood (on flute)
who are using this technique.
When I teach someone to tongue this way I make sure that they have mastered
legato tonguing first. This way they get used to matching their air flow
with slurring and are used to getting and keeping a good air flow at all
times. Then I have them match the short technique in terms of volume and
tone quality to the long notes. I find that most students can pick this up
relatively easily, no guesswork involved. I have a lot more on this in my
book and any of you who are interested in more detail can email me anytime.
Enough for now- and good tonguing!!
--
Wendell Rider
"Real World Horn Playing" is here, see
www.wendellworld.com

From: "Wendell Rider" <wrider@...>
I talked to even string players. Most would never admit to cutting off
notes with the tongue although it often sounded to me as if they might be
doing it.

I would love to see that string player in action!  Sorry ... I tell my
percussionists and bass guitar students they don't need to worry about
tonguing.  MY

I have a trumpet whose 1st valve sticks. I had tried several oils, and the
valve continued to stick, always at the worse time. Believe it or not,
Professor Gestopfmitscheisst oil fixed the problem. Unfortunately, the only
place I know to purchase it is at Kendall Betts Horn Camp.

Herb Foster
--- "jaykostaendwell <JKosta@...>" <JKosta@...> wrote:
> Perhaps the valve is being depressed at an angle, and not straight
> up-and-down. Maybe try always using finger tips if sometimes the
> valves are being 'flat-fingered'. Also check the bottom edge of the
> valve and around the ports in the valve body to make sure there are
> not any burrs or roughness.
> Type of valve oil might also make a difference - I like Al Cass.
>
> Jay Kosta
> Endwell
>
> --- In horn@yahoogroups.com, wa9gob@a... wrote:
> ...
> PS does anybody know what's wrong with a trumpet valve that only
> sticks rarely but only at the worst times?
> ...

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Howard Sanner,

You are Right! Kendall encourages keeping an even air flow, and interrupting
it with the tongue.  He is quite adamant about it, BUT, how did you learn
this from him if you never went to his camp, or never met him???

I HIGHLY recommend his camp to everyone!!!!!

Debbie Wenger






>From: Howard Sanner <flagstad@...>
>Reply-To: horn@yahoogroups.com
>To: horn@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [horn] HEPL!!!!
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:20:25 -0500
>
>Tammy Treon wrote:
> >
> > I have a horrible problem with playing notes not short enough
>
> I had that problem, too, and even managed to get a degree with
>horn as a major instrument without really solving it. :-(
>
> I had always been taught to stop the stream of air with the
>diaphragm, and, when I did that, I could never get a really
>short, sharp staccato. After not playing at all for 25-odd years,
>I decided I wanted to get into shape again. I started practicing,
>and I found the horn lists. I give Kendall Betts full credit for
>teaching me to play staccato, even though we've never met and
>he's never heard me play. (He doesn't know how lucky he is!) He
>said to start *and* stop the note with the tongue. I figured I
>didn't have anything to lose, and I tried it. Like most
>techniques, it required some practice to perfect, but I could
>tell right from the start that this was the way to a good
>staccato.
>
> In a few months I managed to develop it so well that my teacher
>(yes, I started taking lessons again; I recommend it highly)
>said, "You know, Howard, you could back off on the staccato a
>little," which, believe me, was a lot different than what any
>other teacher had said!
>
> Horn playing, however, is a matter of a lot of systems--air,
>embouchure, tongue, fingers, and more--working together properly.
>So there *may* be more to it for you than what's above, and it's
>really impossible to tell for sure without hearing and seeing you
>play.
>
> Good luck. I hope this helps.
>
> 				 Howard Sanner
> 				 flagstad@...
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

True you have to buy a years supply and come back each year. Did you try
Hetman's Piston Lubricant 1 or Blue Juice? They are both very good and
cured sticky valve problems for me. You can buy Hetmans at several
places; I get mine from Scott Bacon at Rayburn Music,
http://www.RayburnMusic.com.

Loren Mayhew
\@()
Loren@...
(520) 403-6897


-----Original Message-----
From: Herbert Foster [mailto:herb_foster@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:41 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [horn] Re: more about valves,

I have a trumpet whose 1st valve sticks. I had tried several oils, and
the
valve continued to stick, always at the worse time. Believe it or not,
Professor Gestopfmitscheisst oil fixed the problem. Unfortunately, the
only
place I know to purchase it is at Kendall Betts Horn Camp.

Herb Foster
--- "jaykostaendwell <JKosta@...>" <JKosta@...>
wrote:
> Perhaps the valve is being depressed at an angle, and not straight
> up-and-down. Maybe try always using finger tips if sometimes the
> valves are being 'flat-fingered'. Also check the bottom edge of the
> valve and around the ports in the valve body to make sure there are
> not any burrs or roughness.
> Type of valve oil might also make a difference - I like Al Cass.
>
> Jay Kosta
> Endwell
>
> --- In horn@yahoogroups.com, wa9gob@a... wrote:
> ...
> PS does anybody know what's wrong with a trumpet valve that only
> sticks rarely but only at the worst times?
> ...

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Sorry my horn friends, but the in every imaginable aspect superior low
conical brass forum, Sean Chisham's TubeNet, offers a format best suited to
the presentation of my most recent upload of a free music file in .pdf
format. There you will find a thumbnail of the first score page, the link
for the download, and the preface, which can be read in extenso.

The presentation can be found at

http://www.chisham.com/messages/124563.html

For people already members of my YorkMasterBBb free and non-posting Yahoo
group, the direct download link is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YorkMasterBBb/files/Polkaband%204%20L%80%A0%A0
%E6s%80%A0%A0%F8%20Dances.pdf

Enjoy!

Klaus

In a message dated 2/28/2003 9:25:25 AM Central Standard Time,
Ron.Boerger@... writes:


> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030228/168/3dtgd.html&e=
> 11


Neal O'Bannion
O'Bannion Music, Inc.
Visit our website at http://www.obannionmusic.com
<A HREF="http://www.obannionmusic.com/">O'Bannion Music, Inc. for the French
Horn</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

fastest way to teach bft horn, simple, remove one f slide and keep it at the
teacher's  house for a week or two. other wise the student 'cheats' and
learning the bft side is delayed dB


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ron Boerger asks who is the painted horn player.

My guess is that it's Assoc. Prinicpal Geoff Lierse.  The Melbourne Symphony
has a very nice web site including pictures of the musicians.  Find the
horns at http://www.mso.com.au/orchestra/brass.asp

Bruce

texasmusicpress@... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/28/2003 9:25:25 AM Central Standard Time,
> Ron.Boerger@... writes:
>
>
>> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030228/168/3dtgd.html&e=
>> 11
>
>
> Neal O'Bannion
> O'Bannion Music, Inc.
> Visit our website at http://www.obannionmusic.com
> <A HREF="http://www.obannionmusic.com/">O'Bannion Music, Inc. for the
> French Horn</A>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

debbie wenger wrote:
>
> You are Right! Kendall encourages keeping an even air flow, and interrupting
> it with the tongue.  He is quite adamant about it, BUT, how did you learn
> this from him if you never went to his camp, or never met him???

	 He posted as much to one of the horn lists, I believe, but am
not positive, the "other" horn list, in response to someone
else's question about how to play a short staccato. I read his
response to the other poster and tried it myself. Sometimes
paying attention in class pays off. <g>

	 I've written him several times to express appreciation, so
grateful am I for such a simple fix to a long-term, nagging
problem. If he ever comes to town, I'd probably cook him my
famous poached salmon with sauce hollandaise, something I do for
almost no one.

						 Howard Sanner
						 flagstad@...

Those of you one the list who use Hetman's Oil, which do you use?  I have
used the Light Piston oil with decent results, but it never seemed to last
particularly long.  The rotor oil was less consistent but when it worked
well, it was the best I've used.  And also most expensive due to it's
smaller bottle.  Then again, I probably shouldn't use as much as did....

Chris


----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren" <Loren.Mayhew@...>
To: <horn@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: [horn] Re: more about valves,


> True you have to buy a years supply and come back each year. Did you try
> Hetman's Piston Lubricant 1 or Blue Juice? They are both very good and
> cured sticky valve problems for me. You can buy Hetmans at several
> places; I get mine from Scott Bacon at Rayburn Music,
> http://www.RayburnMusic.com.
>
> Loren Mayhew
> \@()
> Loren@...
> (520) 403-6897
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herbert Foster [mailto:herb_foster@...]
> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:41 PM
> To: horn@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [horn] Re: more about valves,
>
> I have a trumpet whose 1st valve sticks. I had tried several oils, and
> the
> valve continued to stick, always at the worse time. Believe it or not,
> Professor Gestopfmitscheisst oil fixed the problem. Unfortunately, the
> only
> place I know to purchase it is at Kendall Betts Horn Camp.
>
> Herb Foster
> --- "jaykostaendwell <JKosta@...>" <JKosta@...>
> wrote:
> > Perhaps the valve is being depressed at an angle, and not straight
> > up-and-down. Maybe try always using finger tips if sometimes the
> > valves are being 'flat-fingered'. Also check the bottom edge of the
> > valve and around the ports in the valve body to make sure there are
> > not any burrs or roughness.
> > Type of valve oil might also make a difference - I like Al Cass.
> >
> > Jay Kosta
> > Endwell
> >
> > --- In horn@yahoogroups.com, wa9gob@a... wrote:
> > ...
> > PS does anybody know what's wrong with a trumpet valve that only
> > sticks rarely but only at the worst times?
> > ...
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I know I'm going to get some flack on at least part
of the following, but here goes.

A word to the wise.  Always practice what you can't
do!  So, if you are having trouble with clean,
immediate attacks, that's what you should spend
your time on.  But................

I took part in a demonstration at a horn workshop
several years ago which confirmed, at least in my
mind, what I had suspected for many, many years.

I tried a new Finke horn at one of the dealer's
booths.  It was very nice, but I did notice that
the attacks were not as immediate as the Schmid
triple I was using at the time.

I made this remark to the dealer, he looked at the
horn, and said that the horn had Finke's "8D" mouth
pipe on it.  He took that pipe off, and put Finke's
"Alexander" pipe on the horn.  Immediately the
response time between my attack and the actual
sound that came out of the bell was the same.  No
delay!!

Perhaps your equipment is as least partially
contributing to your problem.  You may reach a
point where no matter how much you practice, you
can't get the response you want.  In that case, I
suggest you carefully experiment with a new
mouthpiece, or a different horn, keeping in mind
the fact that you have to still keep a blend in
your section.

In my case, I like horns that lock solidly into the
pitch - Paxman, Alexander, Schmid, etc.  So, if I
am going to keep with these type of instruments, I
find that I must practice my slurs more than other
people, because the horns I use don't "bend"
pitches well, and thus make slurs more difficult
than some other horns.  If I play a horn that slurs
well, I always have trouble keeping an exact focus
on the pitch.  Me, I'd rather practice slurs a few
more minutes a day than to have to fight the
intonation all of the time.

I'm breaking in a new second horn in my orchestra.
He plays a Holton 179, while I use an Alexander
200.  Not only is his pitch not as secure as my
former second's was, but in fast passages I'll
often be done with my note before his has fully
sounded.  This caused great problems in our concert
last week where we played the Second Piano Concerto
by Rachmaninov. We have discussed this mis-match,
and it has gotten better, but still not where it
had been with my former second during her five year
stay.

Wilbert in SC

Greetings All-

I have come back to the alter of horn after about 18 years. I spent a year as a
performance major right out of high school but then strayed down another path.

While I believe the most important thing to do is that which allows one to find
their 'bliss', what sort of foolishness would it be to get back on the path from
which I strayed...at age 40?

You are nothing if not opionated so...feel free! All response is welcomed!

Cheers!

Donald Harvey

Go for it!  I don't know of any "civic" groups that have too many horn
players.  Too many drummers, saxophone players, clarinet players, etc ....
but never too many horn players!

MY

----- Original Message -----
From: <pappyspa2@...>
To: <horn@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 5:19 PM
Subject: [horn] Old Dog/New Tricks


> Greetings All-
>
> I have come back to the alter of horn after about 18 years. I spent a year
as a performance major right out of high school but then strayed down
another path.
>
> While I believe the most important thing to do is that which allows one to
find their 'bliss', what sort of foolishness would it be to get back on the
path from which I strayed...at age 40?
>
> You are nothing if not opionated so...feel free! All response is welcomed!
>
> Cheers!
>
> Donald Harvey
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I too am starting to play again after 10 years.  I'm excited about it and am
hoping to get my chops back soon.  I'd love to join a community band or
orchestra and have as much fun with it as I possibly can.  So, keep on rolling. 
It's never too late to start something you love and that will bring you peace
and joy.
Lynn
  pappyspa2@... wrote:Greetings All-

I have come back to the alter of horn after about 18 years. I spent a year as a
performance major right out of high school but then strayed down another path.

While I believe the most important thing to do is that which allows one to find
their 'bliss', what sort of foolishness would it be to get back on the path from
which I strayed...at age 40?

You are nothing if not opionated so...feel free! All response is welcomed!

Cheers!

Donald Harvey






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pappyspa2@... wrote:
>
> Greetings All-
>
> I have come back to the alter of horn after about 18 years. I spent a year as
a performance major right out of high school but then strayed down another path.

	 Over the last year or so I've been trying to get back into shape
after a quarter century layoff.



> While I believe the most important thing to do is that which allows one to
find their 'bliss', what sort of foolishness would it be to get back on the path
from which I strayed...at age 40?

	 I ask myself this all the time, except I'm significantly older
than you are. The bottom line, I think, is that if you want to do
it and aren't hurting anyone else (the sounds you make when
practicing don't count <g>), go for it!

	 I found it *extremely* helpful to take lessons again. Even
though I have a good memory and basically know what I'm supposed
to be doing, I found at least two benefits from studying with
someone. First, and maybe least important, it helps to know what
ears that are across the room are hearing. Second, I found that
my teacher (Jeff Girdler, highly recommended if anyone cares)
assigned etudes that really focused on my problems, whereas I'm
more of a "start at the beginning of the book and work through it
to the end" sort of a guy. As a result, I made A LOT more
progress than I would have otherwise. Truly, Jeff worked
borderline miracles with my playing; he helped me progress faster
than I would have thought possible even for someone with real
talent. So I highly recommend finding a *good* teacher!

						 Howard Sanner
						 flagstad@...

Do it. But if you really want to maximize yours and everybody else's
pleasure, by all means take lessons. You will be glad you did.

Loren Mayhew
\@()
Loren@...
(520) 403-6897


-----Original Message-----
From: pappyspa2@... [mailto:pappyspa2@...]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:19 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Old Dog/New Tricks

Greetings All-

I have come back to the alter of horn after about 18 years. I spent a
year as a performance major right out of high school but then strayed
down another path.

While I believe the most important thing to do is that which allows one
to find their 'bliss', what sort of foolishness would it be to get back
on the path from which I strayed...at age 40?

You are nothing if not opionated so...feel free! All response is
welcomed!

Cheers!

Donald Harvey






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

In a message dated 3/3/03 7:03:27 PM, pappyspa2@... writes:

<< While I believe the most important thing to do is that which allows one to
find their 'bliss', what sort of foolishness would it be to get back on the
path from which I strayed...at age 40?
  >>

Your are still young!  And you will enjoy it the second time around.  There
are usually community groups you can play with.  I "retired" from horn
playing in 1986; and then started back at it in '96, and enjoy a couple of
community groups; a band and an orchestra.  And I am now 76 years old.

CORdially,  Paul Mansur

You have all been very kind and I agree wholeheartedly with the advice you
have offered. I have been back playing for about 1.5 years and began lessons
again about 6 weeks ago. I am seriously considering going back to college in
2004 (the year I turn 40) to finish the performance degree I started and
never finished. Perhaps I should have put the subject as New Dog/Old
Tricks... :)

Thanks to you all!

Donald


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(PLEASE CIRCULATE WIDELY)
The contract negotiations between Local 802 and the League of American
Theatres and Producers covering Broadway orchestras and musical creative
teams are continuing even after the expiration of the contract this past
Sunday.

Both sides, however are still far apart.

The Musicians have set a strike deadline for this Thursday at midnight if
there is no settlement.
Over the next few days, we are asking everyone to call the League of
American Theatres and Producers at (212) 764-1122 and tell them to keep the
music of Broadway LIVE. Tell them you won’t be back to Broadway if they kill
the music.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 3/3/03 10:44:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pappyspa2@... writes:

> I am seriously considering going back to college in
> 2004 (the year I turn 40) to finish the performance degree I started and
> never finished.

College is even better the second time around -- I started back this past
fall & am having an incredibly wonderful time!  My fellow music students are
great -- they've been very encouraging.  I was a bit afraid they wouldn't
like having a "mom" type person spending so much time with them, but they
actually seem to enjoy it.

Cheryl


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Foolishness?  What foolishness would it be not to begin again if that is
what you want to do?  I took up the horn again after a 27 year hiatus
and it is one of the best things I ever did.  Luckily I once had some
excellent teachers and was remembered enough to get back into sufficient
shape to get a seat in a community orchestra in less than six months.
That, together with renewing lesson (yes, there are teachers interested
in teaching old fogies) has led to an active playing life which I hope
to increase once I retire, a fate that is coming ever closer.  Do I play
now as well as I once did? No.  Will I ever? Probably not.  Am I having
fun? You bet!

>>> pappyspa2@... 03/03/03 06:19PM >>>
Greetings All-

I have come back to the alter of horn after about 18 years. I spent a
year as a performance major right out of high school but then strayed
down another path.

While I believe the most important thing to do is that which allows one
to find their 'bliss', what sort of foolishness would it be to get back
on the path from which I strayed...at age 40?

You are nothing if not opionated so...feel free! All response is
welcomed!

Cheers!

Donald Harvey






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Friends,
I've not participated much lately, mostly because I'm either painting our
new house, taking care of our 2 and a half year old, or 6 week old baby, or
playing Gotterdamn.... (yes,the entire opera) or Till, etc. etc. Indeed I
have been very busy.
I reply to this subject because it is one that hit home with me about 10
seasons ago. I had this problem for a period of time during my school years,
but solved it before I started my carreer. Anyway. This problem settled it
in one season when our Maestro began asking the horns to play unbelievably
soft and he wasn't helping too much by giving downbeats that nobody
understood. Thus being pushed to my limits, attacks became a bit unstable. I
experimented with breath attacks, but found that I couldn't trust the moment
of response. It worked OK for solos like Oberon, Bruckner 4, etc., but not
for section playing. I had no choice but to find a proper solution, or
possibly LOSS MY JOB. Believe me, it became critical. Finally I sat down at
home and began trying to find solutions. After much hard self analisis, I
came to find that the problem was very basic. A problem that I have heard
that many solid horn players and good students still suffer from. My belief
is that one needs plenty of "fat" lip in the mouthpiece. What I mean by this
is that we need plenty of lip tissue in the mp. This enables us to
manipulate the vibration of the lips, regardless of wether we are using a
large quantity of air, or as in the soft playing case, less. My lips,
throughout a long period of time, actually started to flatten out. My
playing went a bit downhill and not until I stared using "fat" lips did I
begin to recover (and maybe even improve) my abilities. Check with a
qualified teacher (or as golfers say, your local USPGA pro) to analize this
problem. In the meantime, make sure you have lots of lip tissue in the mp.

Jeffrey Cooper
Principal horn
la Orquesta sinfonica de Tenerife

P.S Also, don't let a conductor pysche you out with soft attacks.

----------
>De: "corman922 <corman922@...>" <corman922@...>
>Para: horn@yahoogroups.com
>Asunto: [horn] short notes
>Fecha: sáb., 1 marz 2003 20:19
>

> Here's another question regarding short notes--or any notes at all,
> really...
>
> Often when I articulate a note my lips don't respond immediately --
> there's a split second of air, or sometimes a scratchy sound, before
> the note begins. It's not a frack (sp??) really, just a slight delay
> before a tone begins. This is especially a problem for very short
> notes becuase the duration of the note has passed by the time my lips
> respond. I've tried practicing breath attacks but I get the same
> result -- a slight delay before the lips respond. Any suggestions on
> how can I work on getting my lips to respond immediately?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Are you kidding?
     After over 50 years of my Schmidt Thumb Piston Double Horn was gathering
dust and withdrawal symptons in my closet, I decided to see if I was still
able to get a tone out of it.
          Not only did all the valves work, including my own, but after
practicing daily for two weeks, I was able to get my embrochure back up to a
reasonable level enough to become a member of 2 symphonic groups. As a
testament of this,believe me,You CAN teach an" OLD DOG /NEW TRICKS"!!!
                               Phil Schwartz-Queens Symphonic Band-   New York
City,NY
                                                     Island Senior Symphony
Orchestra-Brentwood,NY


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

All, A cross post. Just received info on this Horn. Sounds reasonable as can be
considering some posts last couple months. Link below. Take care. GN
http://www.netinstruments.com/musicalinstrument.php/27398

ENGINEERING: Retired Industry-Gov't
MANAGEMENT & TECHNICAL CONSULTING
Napuda Associates, Pennsville, NJ
HORN: Public School System, College, Univ.,
US Army, Freelance, Life Member AFM, Avocation,
IHS NJ Rep.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

HI,
   I am a senior in high school and now cracking down and learning
horn.  I am getting ready to buy a Yamaha 668ND for college since I
will be playing it in college.  I am originally a woodwind player
and marched mellophone and played in pep band for 2 years and got to
play horn only as to see what its like and low and behond.. I feel
in love..  I am now taking lessons at Ohio State University.  I am
very excited to get my double horn since all I have a is a Reynolds
single horn.  Its an OKAY horn.  I play on my school'd Conn6D which
is about 2 years old or something like that.  I don't really like it
that much.  It doesn't seem to be as responsive as I would like it
to be.

DeeJay