The last statement reminded me of something we (and I) do: finishing the advice
with the undesired behavior. The mind tends to ignore the "don't" and is left
with, "let the bad days get you down." A better alternative could be, "Just let
the bad days slide on by."

My band director, who is otherwise very good, admonishes, "Don't slow down!" So
the band hears "Slow down!" A better alternative would be, "We're slowing down
here. Keep the tempo up!"

I tell the horn section, "Keep ahead of the beat. By the time the 'Pah' reaches
the audience, it will be on time." Unfortunately, the drummer doesn't know that,
and we get, "pah..tat." At least we keep the tempo up, and the director gets on
the drummer's case.

Herb Foster




________________________________
From: Tina Barkan <tina.barkan@...>
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 3:25:13 PM
Subject: RE: [horn] Wanting to Play again

Hi Judith,



I started playing again about a year and a half ago after a 36 year layoff.
You can do it. I have a blog that documents my adventure, good days and bad
days, music that I started with, mouthpieces and so on. It's all there at
newhornist.com. There are days when it's a real struggle and days when you
play like you used to and realize how wonderful it is to play the horn.
Keep at it and don't let the bad days get you down.



Sincerely,

Tina



4th Chair Shoreham Wading River Band

4th Chair Riverhead Band

newhornist.com





From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
judabeth
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:52 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Wanting to Play again





Hello everyone,
I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years. I want to
get in practice again to have fun playing again. I just got a Conn 8D and
have started practicing. I have only been playing now for 5 days. When I was
in music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it workded better
but I didn't play much after that. Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement. Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus? What should
I expect regarding the building up of muscle again. I didn't realize how
much I can't do -even maintaining a pitch. I don't know what to expect. How
long does it take to be able to play again? I'm a little discouraged but
still eager to play again. Any advice? Help? How and what should I be
practicing?
Thank You,
Judith





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Finished lunch a little early but not early enough to do anything
useful. So I'll chime in. Two more or less unrelated comments, but
I'll post both at once so as to save clutter.

First. I agree wholeheartedly with Jean Rife. Get some exercise. That
is a good piece of advice for life in general. But it will really help
in regard to this early morning playing thread. Aerobic work builds
the capillary structures which are so important to any muscle function
(e.g. breathing muscles and embouchure). Also helps electrolytic
balances which can flush out that puffiness that Jean referred to, as
well as residual muscle soreness. Light exercise an hour or two before
the recital wouldn't hurt (yes, I understand what time of the morning
we are talking about). But just generally staying fit and health
conscious will help no matter when you do the work. You don't have to
train for marathons (though it doesn't hurt). Just anything to wake up
the lungs, muscles, circulatory system, etc.. By the way, don't start
a big fitness program a few days before the recital. It could cause
shocks to the system that would ill affect your playing. This has to
be an ongoing commitment.

Second. Someone mentioned Kendall Betts' Beethoven 7 story. A number
of you have talked about early morning military service and other such
hazards. So I'll chime in with one of my own--just to make the point
that you have to be ready when the gig says to be ready. The (now
defunct) Music Festival of Arkansas was given a PR bonanza sometime
back in the early 90's when the CBS morning news show (Good Morning
America, maybe?) did a feature on our festival. Their theme song was
"Oh What a Beautiful Morning". So the orchestra learned an arrangement
and showed up at some ungodly hour to do the thing live. Once we got
there, the producer told our festival director that they had extra
time in the segment and could we play something else. We were working
on Hanson's Romantic Symphony for our upcoming concert. So completely
without warning I got to play the first movement (which I
affectionately refer to as the Hanson Horn Concerto) live, on national
TV at something like 8:00am. I can tell this story with a smile
because it went well. But believe me, it could easily have gone south.
So you just never know.

The UW Oshkosh Horn Choir will be giving a concert next Tuesday 11/17 at 7:00 PM
in the Music Hall, Arts and Communications Center, at UW Oshkosh on Algoma Blvd.
Admission is free. Works by John Williams, Rossini, Andrew Lloyd Webber, etc.

Welcome, Judith!

We're the same age.  I decided to come back to horn four years ago after not
playing for 33 years.  It's been a  joy ride.  I'm having more fun than a body
ought to be allowed to have!   I've enjoyed playing principal, low horn, in a
horn quartet, church orchestras, various ad hoc ensembles and only yesterday in
a brass quintet for a Veteran's Day celebration.  It's very satisfying to serve
my community with my horn.

One addition to the great advice the others have offered:  Someone advised that
you get a good teacher so that you will "get it right this time."  Getting a
good instructor is a great idea, but be careful because even the best teachers
can "mess up" when it comes to the embouchure, especially when they try to tell
you what your embouchure should "look" like and where to place the mouthpiece. 
In my personal experience, the qualified teachers (university professors and
conservatory trained horn players) who tried to "fix" my embouchure only made it
worse.  (I actually had good chops before the "experts" got their hands on me.)

If you had an instructor previously that helped your embouchure function better,
you were lucky!  I and many others were not so fortunate.  I'd advise you to
keep playing on your own and eventually your ear will guide you to what you were
doing before.  It's like riding a bicycle, what you did before is still inbedded
in your memory.  I believe what you did sucessfully before will come back to you
if you don't let anyone interfere with the process.

Anyway . . . I finally developed great chops by following the advise of a
trumpet teacher in Garland, Texas.  His method worked very well for me because
his range of motion exercises taught me to focus on the sound my chops produce
rather than what they look like.  His method does not prescribe a "correct"
one-size-fits-all embouchure.

So, of course, for chops work, I always advise people to tell their horn
instructors to keep their "expert" hands off the chops!   I've recorded more of
the details of my experience on my blog.  Please stop by and visit: 
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

While I actively promote this method, I don't advise come back horn players try
this method until they've played long enough for their natural embouchure to
stabalize on it's own -- probably six months or a year.  Too many new things,
too soon can be confusing and counter productive.

For a good self help book for horn, I always recommend Wendell Rider's book. 
His warm up was life changing for me.

Valerie Wells
"The Balanced Embouchure" for French Horn
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/



____________________________________________________________
Graphic Design Degrees
Free info on online degrees in Graphic Design, Game Arts or Web Design
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=eA2hUx_ANgGyFmvXhET1IgAAJz2kDH22Xz\
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The Symphony of the Potomac will perform the first concert of it's 2009-2010
season on Sunday, November 15, at 3 PM in the auditorium of Wootton High School.

Wagner: Flying Dutchman Overture
Mendelssohn: Piano Concerto #1, Alon Goldstein pianist
Brahms: Symphony no. 4

For more information, advance tickets, and directions, please see
symphonypotomac.org.

(PS -- all attendees under 18 are free)

Margaret Dikel
horn / librarian
Symphony of the Potomac


Margaret F. Dikel
The Riley Guide
11218 Ashley Dr.
Rockville, MD  20852
301-881-0122
mfriley@...
www.rileyguide.com

Keep it simple. Focus on the basics. Don't expect too much too soon,
particularly with respect to the high register. Get a book of hymns or
traditional tunes and read it as horn in C (i.e. keep it to the mid-range for
now). Reconnect with making music. That will make the time spent building back
up more rewarding. Most "comebacks" that fail in my experience result from
people not being patient enough and only playing etudes and exercises. They get
disappointed that they cannot "make music" anymore. We are lucky, a simple
mid-range tune on the horn can sound as glorious as a Beethoven symphony.Just to
add to what was said, you can transpose some etudes for horn in C. For example,
if you're studying a Kopprasch or Kling etude, it's good to transpose it in C if
you're proficient in transposition. I do that sometimes to work on the low
range. I agree, it's a good idea to keep it low for now and then build up the
range. One book you can get, Judith, is
  the "Grand Theoretical and Practical Method for Valve Horn" by Josef Schantl.
This book has several etudes based on scales in different keys. You can
transpose some of those in different keys to work on the low range. And, yes,
this book focuses on developing a solid low range and some exercises are in the
high range. It's published by Wind Music in the Atlanta area.  Again, it will
take a lot of time to get a solid high range, so take your time with developing
the basics and hymns and a book of basic tunes transposing them in C would work
for now. Best wishes in getting back into horn playing, Judith.
Mike Keegan,Eastwinds Music,Milwaukee, WI

Hi,
I am happy to announce that I will be hosting a 2 day workshop, called
"Horns By The bay," at San Francisco State University on the weekend
of January 30 & 31, 2010. The hours will be 9-5 each day.

Guests will be Brian Fredericksen, long time assistant to Arnold
Jacobs, Bill Kilingelhoffer, principal of the SF Opera orchestra,
James Decker, legendary Hollywood player, and his Ivasi music system
and Dr. Steven Gross of the University of California at Santa Barbara.
I will also be doing some of my things, including a preview of my new
book and DVD about Purposeful Practice, and conducting the horn choir.
Admission will be $30 per single day or $50 for both days.

This is going to be fun and full of interesting events and
presentations. For example, Brian Fredericksen is going to be showing
actual footage of Jacobs working with students and discussing his
masterful thoughts on breathing and the psychology and musicality of
performance. There are actually 2 different presentations plus a
Jacobs panel discussion. Any wind player would be interested in this
rare footage so I am probably going to make this available separately
to people who want to come just for this. There will be a small
admission charge for those who come just for that. So tell your wind
playing friends.

Rather than going into all of it here, I direct you to the web
location below, where you can see more details and download a poster/
brochure/registration form. There are master class opportunities, so
send in your registration ASAP with what you would like to play.

http://wendellworld.com/html/HornDay.html

There will be a schedule of events for each day up on my site soon. If
you have any other questions you can email me personally or on this
board.
Help spread the word about this unique event!
Sincerely,
Wendell
For info about my book, DVDs and live video chat horn lessons, see my
web site at www.wendellworld.com

Keep it simple. Focus on the basics. Don't expect too much too soon,
particularly with respect to the high register. Get a book of hymns or
traditional tunes and read it as horn in C (i.e. keep it to the mid-range for
now). Reconnect with making music. That will make the time spent building back
up more rewarding. Most "comebacks" that fail in my experience result from
people not being patient enough and only playing etudes and exercises. They get
disappointed that they cannot "make music" anymore. We are lucky, a simple
mid-range tune on the horn can sound as glorious as a Beethoven symphony.


--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "judabeth" <judabeth@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years.  I want to
get in practice again to have fun playing again.  I just got a Conn 8D and have
started practicing.  I have only been playing now for 5 days.  When I was in
music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it workded better but I
didn't play much after that.  Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement.  Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus?  What should I
expect regarding the building up of muscle again.  I didn't realize how much I
can't do -even maintaining a pitch.  I don't know what to expect.  How long does
it take to be able to play again?  I'm a little discouraged but still eager to
play again.  Any advice? Help? How and what should I be practicing?
> Thank You,
> Judith
>

Good Evening Everyone,
I would like to announce a couple of concerts this weekend in Milwaukee. The
first one is the Prata Duo, Steve Wolff, Piano, and myself. It will take place
this Saturday the 14th at Joyce Parker Productions located at 2685 S.
Kinnickinnic Ave. in Milwaukee's Bay View neighborhood. The concert is part of
the Music on KK series, which takes place from 3-4.

Program:
Chabrier Larghetto
Bourrees I&II from Suite No.3 in C Major, BWV1009 - Bach (I transcribed those
for horn)
Sonata in C Major for Solo Piano, K545 - Mozart
Fantasia in D Minor for Solo Piano, K397 - Mozart
Largo from Reger's 2nd Cello Suite (I also transcribed this for horn)
Mozart 1

The following Sunday is the all-Mozart concert for Eastwinds. This will take
place at St. Mark's Episcopal Church, 2618 N. Hackett Ave. on Milwaukee's East
Side. Pieces will include both piano works listed above, Mozart 1, the first and
second mvts. of Mozart 3, and I transcribed six of the horn duets for flute and
horn. I will be joined by flautist Carolyn Atwell on the Mozart duets. Admission
is $8 - Adults, $6 - Seniors, $3 - High School and College Students, and members
of St. Mark's Episcopal Church, and Children 14 and Under, free admission. A
reception will follow in the Guild Hall after the concert.

For more information about these concerts, please feel free to e-mail me offlist
for directions and more info. I look forward to seeing you there if you live in
the Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha, and Chicago areas.

Sincerely,
Mike Keegan,
Executive, Musical, and Artistic Director,
Eastwinds Chamber Ensemble and Music,
Milwaukee, WI






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To all that might be interested:

I am playing a recital with pianist Steve Larson at the Interlochen Arts Academy
this Saturday, November 14th at 3:10 pm. The recital will take place at the
Dendrinos Chapel & Recital Hall on the campus grounds. Music will include
Lorenz, Planel, Dunhill, Ketting, Damase and Wilder. A masterclass will follow
the recital.

Karl Pituch
Principal Horn
Detroit Symphony

OSS Jedburgh:  That I can recall.  Thanks for the offer; usually I run
through/by Boston in June.  I will be sure to archive this letter!
SCY

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, alpha@... <alpha@...> wrote:


From: alpha@... <alpha@...>
Subject: Re: [horn] Early Morning Recitals
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 3:33 PM


 



Scott Young wrote:

> Never mind; Google is my friend.  Kerry, would you mind facilitating this
> the next time Mark and I are in Boston?

Gladly. We have some surprisingly good local microbreweries here in
Puritanical New England. Mark and I will be waiting for you (Mark lives
just an hour away). Bring your horn and we'll do some trios as long as we
can stay sober.

As a final parting note, I genuinely do admire our military personnel,
active and retired. My dad was a commando fighting behind German lines in
France in WWII (an OSS Jedburgh--you can Google that, too), and he's my
hero.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scott Young wrote:

> Never mind; Google is my friend.  Kerry, would you mind facilitating this
> the next time Mark and I are in Boston?

Gladly. We have some surprisingly good local microbreweries here in
Puritanical New England. Mark and I will be waiting for you (Mark lives
just an hour away). Bring your horn and we'll do some trios as long as we
can stay sober.

As a final parting note, I genuinely do admire our military personnel,
active and retired. My dad was a commando fighting behind German lines in
France in WWII (an OSS Jedburgh--you can Google that, too), and he's my
hero.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

Hi Judith,



I started playing again about a year and a half ago after a 36 year layoff.
You can do it. I have a blog that documents my adventure, good days and bad
days, music that I started with, mouthpieces and so on. It's all there at
newhornist.com. There are days when it's a real struggle and days when you
play like you used to and realize how wonderful it is to play the horn.
Keep at it and don't let the bad days get you down.



Sincerely,

Tina



4th Chair Shoreham Wading River Band

4th Chair Riverhead Band

newhornist.com





From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
judabeth
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:52 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Wanting to Play again





Hello everyone,
I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years. I want to
get in practice again to have fun playing again. I just got a Conn 8D and
have started practicing. I have only been playing now for 5 days. When I was
in music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it workded better
but I didn't play much after that. Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement. Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus? What should
I expect regarding the building up of muscle again. I didn't realize how
much I can't do -even maintaining a pitch. I don't know what to expect. How
long does it take to be able to play again? I'm a little discouraged but
still eager to play again. Any advice? Help? How and what should I be
practicing?
Thank You,
Judith





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Never mind; Google is my friend.  Kerry, would you mind facilitating this the
next time Mark and I are in Boston?
Respectfully,
Scott Young

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Scott Young <scott44y@...> wrote:


From: Scott Young <scott44y@...>
Subject: Re: [horn] Early Morning Recitals
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 1:19 PM


 



Please excuse my ignorance, but I do not get the reference.  I am hoping it is
somewhat lighthearted and/or funny.
Respectfuly,
Scott Young

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, alpha@cyberiantiger .biz <alpha@cyberiantiger .biz> wrote:

From: alpha@cyberiantiger .biz <alpha@cyberiantiger .biz>
Subject: Re: [horn] Early Morning Recitals
To: horn@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 12:43 PM

 

Scott Young wrote:

> Mark, if we ever do meet, I will buy you the beer.

Be sure to invite Sgt. Crowley and Dr. Gates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please excuse my ignorance, but I do not get the reference.  I am hoping it is
somewhat lighthearted and/or funny.
Respectfuly,
Scott Young

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, alpha@... <alpha@...> wrote:


From: alpha@... <alpha@...>
Subject: Re: [horn] Early Morning Recitals
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 12:43 PM


 



Scott Young wrote:

> Mark, if we ever do meet, I will buy you the beer.

Be sure to invite Sgt. Crowley and Dr. Gates.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I'm a masters student in Canada and I am playing a 40 minute recital in about
3 weeks time...at 9:30am!!
> I am not what you would call a morning person

Nobody's ever accused me of being one, either! <g>

Seriously, if this is a one-shot deal, I'm firmly in the camp of those who say
just to stay up, play the !@#$^% thing, and go crash in the sack the rest of the
day. That's the approach Farkas took to one of his auditions, I think in
Cleveland, but don't plan to take the time to look it up.

_______________________

It wasn't for an audition, but for a recording session when Phil played in
Cleveland, before he went to Boston.  They played Brahms 3rd in an evening
concert, and he said it went incredibly well.  They were recording it the next
morning, and he didn't want to lose his great lip, so he stayed up all night,
and it worked -- his lip still felt great for the session.

Chris Earnest



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Again,

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. Every morning feels better than the
last, I guess it is just a matter of training. This is my first experience of
preparing for an early morning solo concert so starting the process was a bit
discouraging at first... it takes some getting used to physically and mentally.
I'm grateful for all the tips, I think incorporating a few of them along with
just getting more comfortable with the early morning schedule will lead to a
performance I can feel good about. And maybe I will become an early-bird in the
end, it's kind of nice watching the sunrise.

Thanks again!

M
--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "mara_448" <mara_448@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All!
>
> I'm a masters student in Canada and I am playing a 40 minute recital in about
3 weeks time...at 9:30am!!
> I am not what you would call a morning person, and my chops agree with me. I
have been praticing waking up early and warming up before 8:30am but so far when
I try and play through my program I lose steam about half way or 3/4 of the way
through, and feel stiff in general.
> Does anyone have any tips on how to survive early morning performances? All
advice will be greatly appreciated!
>
> M
>

Scott Young wrote:

> Mark, if we ever do meet, I will buy you the beer.

Be sure to invite Sgt. Crowley and Dr. Gates.

Well, I didn't play from age 20 to 65. It's a slow process. The older you are,
the slower. However, maturity brings you--maturity. And patience. The best
advice I can give is to find a group to play with. It gives you something to
work for.

Get the Farkas book Art of French Horn Playing. I found it valuable, though
everything in it is not gospel. Find a teacher and take some lessons.

Herb Foster




________________________________
From: judabeth <judabeth@...>
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 7:52:10 PM
Subject: [horn] Wanting to Play again

Hello everyone,
I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years.  I want to get
in practice again to have fun playing again.  I just got a Conn 8D and have
started practicing.  I have only been playing now for 5 days.  When I was in
music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it workded better but I
didn't play much after that.  Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement.  Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus?  What should I
expect regarding the building up of muscle again.  I didn't realize how much I
can't do -even maintaining a pitch.  I don't know what to expect.  How long does
it take to be able to play again?  I'm a little discouraged but still eager to
play again.  Any advice? Help? How and what should I be practicing?
Thank You,
Judith



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judith wrote:

> I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years.  I want
> to get in practice again to have fun playing again.  I just got a Conn 8D
> and have started practicing. <snip> Has anyone come back to the horn after
> a long hiatus?  What should I expect regarding the building up of muscle
> again. <snip> I'm a little discouraged but still eager to play again.

Hi Judith,

I had a 15-year hiatus, and took up horn again at your age, and I've
experienced a lot of the same things as you.

I think the most important thing you can do is "get it right this time."
Get a teacher who can help you with embouchure, breathing, tonguing, and
other basics. There should be somebody in your area, but if there isn't, I
highly recommend Wendell Rider. He is set up to give you lessons over the
Internet--all you need is a PC with a Webcam and microphone. Wendell is
the author of "Real World Horn Playing", and was principal in San Jose and
Monterey for decades. You can contact him through his Web site,
<http://www.wendellworld.com/>.

Expect to fatigue easily as you build up your muscles again. When I first
started, I had to practice in 10-minute increments. After 10 minutes, I
could no longer play a third-space C.

Things did improve, though, and rather quickly. My muscles quickly
strengthened, and the technique came back. It's not all muscle,
though--you'll need efficient breathing, correct embouchure, and good
posture to play well.

I was playing in a horn quartet within a month, and co-principal in the
San Francisco Civic Symphony within 4-5 months. Now, 6 years later, I am
principal in the Boston Civic Symphony, and loving it.

I practiced a lot of scales, lip slurs, Kopprasch, long tones, excerpts,
concertos--pretty much the gamut. I took lesson from a fine teacher in San
Francisco, Bill Klingelhoffer. I had an hour-long commute at the time, and
I did a lot of mouthpiece buzzing and free-buzzing in the car. That helped
a lot, though I did worry at times that a state trooper would see me
playing on my mouthpiece and think that I was toking a joint.

Get Farkas' book, "The Art of French Horn Playing", read it, and do some
of the exercises in it. I'd also get Wendell's "Real World Horn Playing",
and his DVD, if you can afford it.

Join some groups--the local amateur orchestra or band, a brass quintet, a
horn quartet. Just play, and play as much as you can. The more you do, the
better you will get, and the more you will enjoy it.

Above all, at our age, we're in it for love of music. I don't think the
Boston Symphony is going to ask me to sit 7th horn on Mahler 3--I'm just
not that good, and it's not my aim anyway. I just love playing, and intend
to keep doing it as long as my body lets me.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Mark Louttit <mloutti056@...> wrote:





" I spent over twenty years in the Air Force and then the Army so I know about
getting up
early and doing things (one of recruiting slogans of the US Army used to be
"we do more by nine o'clock than most people do all day")."
 
Mark, Thank you for your service, esp. on this day.

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Mark Louttit <mloutti056@...> wrote:
"I am certain, too, that working the midnight shift contributed to some
serious health problems from which I have never fully recovered...."
 
I understand, mostly because I am in a similar boat.
 

Mark Louttit <mloutti056@...> also wrote:
"So yeah, Scott people can adjust over a period of time and we can triumph
over personal liabilities due to either genetics or environment. ..but you
know Scott, what you have utterly failed to do, other than to impress us
with what a self-disciplined tough guy you are, highly successful
apparently, and driven, is to recognize that we are all different, with
different temperaments and genetic make-up.... So you see Scott, maybe you are
lucky that you have a number of factors that favor you, that maybe others simply
do not. What you do not seem to have is much empathy."
 
I sincerely beg your pardon; as stated in other replies it is not my intent to
offend, nor to trumpet my own superiority (HA!).  I even placed a disclaimer in
my original post, as you ably note later.  However, I want to explain a subtlety
that I apparently botched:  What I feel personally (I hate morning gigs) and
what her professors and my bosses (and, hopefully someday, her bosses) feel
professionally are two different matters.  When someone at my schools or gigs
tries the excuse: "Sorry, I am not a morning person" they have just committed a
grave offense against the profession, and in some cases, have limited or
eliminated their work options.  If I care about my students/peers, should I
allow them to persist in this self-destructive behavior?  Perhaps I have a
different concept of empathy. 
Is this a strong, unfriendly idea?  Yes, but it is how the music and academic
worlds operate.  Sugar coating it does not ease the bitterness.

Mark Louttit <mloutti056@...> also wrote:
"What I think we have here is a person who posed a legitimate
question that is of obvious concern to her, and instead she gets a
self-righteous sermon from someone who prides himself on what a great guy he
is despite the disclaimer that he means to offend no one and that those who
are easily offended ignore his post, suggesting or implying that maybe he is
offense in demeanor as many self-righteous and driven people appear to be."
 
As a human, I accept the charges that I am self-righteous and driven.  I also
will accept, although no one has suggested it, that I am, at best, a mediocre
hornist and musician, as well as carrying other deep personality flaws.  I am
disgusted by this, but I will admit my shortcomings when they are presented,
esp. in such an elegant fashion, and work earnestly to correct them.  I will
also say that I meant no rancor to the student-in-question.  I was, however, a
bit surprised when someone whose academic, musical, and professional
accomplishments I highly respect seemed (please note the key word here,
"seemed") to suggest that medically she had a reason to not play well in the
morning, although I know from his past posts that he is a accomplished
professional musician who happens to work in another business. I sincerely doubt
he would ever suggest such a thing about himself in a professional/academic
situation, except in jest.

Mark Louttit <mloutti056@...> also wrote:
"One of virtues of this great list, is that it is generally free of rancor
and we have a reputation of being able to disagree without being
disagreeable. It is not my intent to level some type of ad hominim attack
upon you, but rather to be candid. I am sure that if we were to meet at a
horn symposium, we could sit down and have a beer and some friendly
conversation. ..but in this thread, I have to emphatically disagree with the
posture and position that you have taken.
Conja, may have given the best advice in the sense is that in my opinion,
Mara, needs to change her schedule around the next several weeks, and if
possible, go to bed earlier and hence rise earlier. Maybe it is a pain in
the behind, but it would only be for several weeks, and then she can go back
to her previous schedule."
 
Let me deal with the last point first:  Changing her schedule for the next few
weeks is EXACTLY WHAT I SUGGESTED; first, I might add.  I will not bore the list
by going through the other points that proceeded from my original statement.  I
even gave a time frame (the next three weeks).  So, in essence, you may not
intend an ad hominim fallacy, but all you have done is attack me, not my
arguments.  You actually come back to the conclusion that was my original
point.  Now I am aware that this may not appear empathic, but I ask you simply
this:  Is my statement true?  If so, what are we arguing about?  Also, I accept
that this attack was not your intent, but it is a fact.  BTW, I am over it
already :)
 
 
Mark Louttit <mloutti056@...> also wrote:
So Scott, keep plugging away and adapting and overcoming.. .just I like I
have for the last forty years or so since I became an adult, and hopefully
before you move on to the next phase of existence you will develop a sense
of empathy, and realize that not everyone is as good or virtuous as
yourself.
 
Dear God, I sincerely, honestly, and emphatically hope that the rest of the
world is better and more virtuous than I am!  And I assure you, I do not mean
this as pious posturing.

Mark Louttit <mloutti056@...> also wrote:
"PS who always sleeps as late as he can, when he can"
 
Amen.
Scott Young
 
PS:  Mark, if we ever do meet, I will buy you the beer.
SCY






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all,

The Boston Civic Symphony is playing an all-Beethoven concert this Sunday,
November 15, 3:00 p.m., in Jordan Hall on the New England Conservatory
campus.

The program includes Leonore #3, Piano Concerto #4 (Max Levinson, piano),
and the Symphony #5. Tickets are available at
<http://www.csob.org/tickets.html>. I also have one free ticket. The only
catch is that, if you take the free ticket, you have to come, or we will
hold our next rehearsal at your home. That's the good news--the bad news
is that the next rehearsal is holiday pops.

The Boston Civic Symphony is the group I've been playing in for several
years. This is easily the best orchestra we've had during my tenure--so
good that our conductor actually smiled a couple of weeks ago.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

Scott,

Well...I do believe in the Triumph of the Will...and I think it is downright
dandy you have lived such a successful and disciplined life. I spent over
twenty years in the Air Force and then the Army so I know about getting up
early and doing things (one of recruiting slogans of the US Army used to be
"we do more by nine o'clock than most people do all day"). Scott, when I
retired from the Army I got a job working in a state police crime lab where
I was on the night shift for over five years. So as you can see I have lived
and survived under a variety of time change conditions...BUT...that does not
mean that I do not function best in the early afternoon into the evening.
All of us have a natural body clock or rhythm, and some of us are morning
people an some of us are afternoon/night people. I used to work for a
colonel who was a late afternoon person who really didn't start demanding
that things be done until around 4pm in the afternoon. We might have had the
first formation for physical training at 6am, but many evenings his staff
officers stayed not infrequently until 7pm or later (the enlisted soldiers
were released at the normal end of the duty day, but we "privileged"
officers had the honor of acceding to the colonel's wishes).

I am certain, too, that working the midnight shift contributed to some
serious health problems from which I have never fully  recovered (at one
point, my personal physician told me that I had about 24 months to live, and
my health got so bad that I had to quit playing the horn for several years).
Although I functioned working all nights and was successful at my job, I was
chronically depressed due to sleep deprivation issues (in the end you cannot
defeat circadian rhythm) , became morbidly obese (300 hundred pounds and I
am only 5'6") developed type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and had what
my cardiologist called a "significant cardiovascular event" (read: mild
heart attack which went undiagnosed and untreated). Now while the effects of
my health problems can be directly related to the obesity, the obesity can
in large part be related to my lifestyle which was related to working
nights.  I was also playing in several community orchestras, studied
privately for awhile, and I would frequently go to a rehearsal and then go
directly to work...until of course I reached a point where I was in such a
state of physical and mental exhaustion that I had to drop it.
In the end, the answer for me was gastric bypass surgery which restored much
but not all of my health , and a change in jobs where I worked resulting in
a normal daytime Monday thru Friday schedule. I used to think I was a tough
self-disciplined guy, too.

So yeah, Scott people can adjust over a period of time and we can triumph
over personal liabilities due to either genetics or environment...but you
know Scott, what you have utterly failed to do, other than  to impress us
with what a self-disciplined tough guy you are, highly successful
apparently, and driven, is to recognize that we are all different, with
different temperaments and genetic make-up. I worked with a women on my
night-shift job at the crime lab, who could never adjust to working all
nights, and finally she had to quit. This was a person with a very good
track record of success in previous jobs, she simply couldn't live with the
hours.  My supervisor on the night shift who had great problems sleeping
during the day, finally had a total physical collapse and a heart attack. So
you see Scott, maybe you are lucky that you have a number of factors that
favor you, that maybe others simply do not.  What you do not seem to have is
much empathy.

Now I am not one of those individuals who believes that people are victims
of either their genes or their environment. We are all conscious agents of
choice. What I think we have here is a person who posed a legitimate
question that is of obvious concern to her, and instead she gets a
self-righteous sermon from someone who prides himself on what a great guy he
is despite the disclaimer that he means to offend no one and that those who
are easily offended ignore his post, suggesting or implying that maybe he is
offense in demeanor as many self-righteous and driven people appear to be.

One of virtues of this great list, is that it is generally free of rancor
and we have a reputation of being able to disagree without being
disagreeable. It is not my intent to level some type of ad hominim attack
upon you, but rather to be candid.  I am sure that if we were to meet at a
horn symposium, we could sit down and have a beer and some friendly
conversation...but in this thread, I have to emphatically disagree with the
posture and position that you have taken.

Conja, may have given the best advice in the sense is that in my opinion,
Mara, needs to change her schedule around the next several weeks, and if
possible, go to bed earlier and hence rise earlier. Maybe it is a pain in
the behind, but it would only be for several weeks, and then she can go back
to her previous schedule.

So Scott, keep plugging away and adapting and overcoming...just I like I
have for the last forty years or so since I became an adult, and hopefully
before you move on to the next phase of existence you will develop a sense
of empathy, and realize that not everyone is as good or virtuous as
yourself.

With all best wishes,

Mark Louttit

PS who always sleeps as late as he can, when he can

Nancy,
The best answer would be to visit the Orchestra's website at
http://www.kwsymphony.ca/2009_10/About-Us-KWS-History.html
As for CBC we used to do lots of recording but not so much anymore because of
all the cuts at CBC. BTW I was borned and raised in Montréal, I studied at the
Conservatoire de Musique du Québec à Montréal 1982-1988.
Martin

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy" <nancymomkids@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Martin,
>
> How many concerts do you guys have per season?
>
> Is the orchestra fairly young?  Do you get any performances on CBC
broadcasting?
>
> Nancy (Montreal)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "MartinL" <martin_limoges@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Count me in !!!
> > I'm playing an Alex 200a. This is my everyday horn.
> >
> > Martin Limoges
> > Kitchener-Waterloo Symphony
> > Ontario, Canada
> >
> > --- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Clark" <sclark05@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I do now!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jason, you and I make two.out of.hundreds - thousands even.  That's still
a
> > > VERY small number.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps you'd be willing to write a bit more about the advantages.  If I
had
> > > to name one single thing I like best, it would be that I do not have to
use
> > > any Bb side 1-2 combinations.  I do use them occasionally, but only for
> > > smooth fingering reasons, not because the other options are poor.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Where did you get your instrument, Jason, through Wichita Band, or some
> > > other dealer?  And was the ascending system a special order?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sandra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Lots of good suggestions.  Did I miss something, though?  Did anyone
suggest that exercise in the morning can help with the physical
symptoms of early morning playing?  A good, brisk 1-hour walk, for
example?  Or an active yoga practice for an hour?  Most of us have
trouble in the morning because of puffy lips.  The fluids in the body
seem to be stagnant.  Get them moving for the next three weeks before
your warm up, and see if that doesn't help.

Jean Rife

Hello everyone,
I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years.  I want to get
in practice again to have fun playing again.  I just got a Conn 8D and have
started practicing.  I have only been playing now for 5 days.  When I was in
music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it workded better but I
didn't play much after that.  Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement.  Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus?  What should I
expect regarding the building up of muscle again.  I didn't realize how much I
can't do -even maintaining a pitch.  I don't know what to expect.  How long does
it take to be able to play again?  I'm a little discouraged but still eager to
play again.  Any advice? Help? How and what should I be practicing?
Thank You,
Judith

Sandra,
I was just browsing to see what was out there about the ascending horn, then I
saw the old post... Just wanted to join the troops and support that wonderful
system.
BTW,I had a blast playing Malher 9 on the Alex 200a last season. I'm looking
foward to play Shostakovich 5th in the spring.

Martin


--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Clark" <sclark05@...> wrote:
>
> Hear Hear for the Ascending horn!
>
>
>
> (you really reached back Martin - that note is months old!)
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Kerry Thompson <alpha@...> wrote:
"...that being a late riser was a lack of discipline."

I apologize if I made it sound that way.  To me, discipline is less "get up now,
you lazy bum*" and more "You do not have to like it, you just have to do it."

*= a direct quote heard frequently in my house as I was growing up ;)
 
Kerry Thompson <alpha@...> also wrote:
"I think that's the only significant thing we may differ on--is it nature or
nurture that makes one a morning person or a night owl, and how much control
we have over that."
 
We may actually agree on this also, except maybe the control part.  If I cannot
train myself to play at my highest level at a certain time, I have no business
taking people's money at that time.  In other words, there is no place in my
professional life for the concept of "morning" or "evening" person.  The fact
the this student is doing a Masters level recital on horn makes me believe that
she is pursuing professional standards, and let's face it, 9:30 am is not an
unreasonable time to have to play (anyone remember Mr. Betts' Beethoven #7
story?).  One thing we definitely agree on, however, is that Nature does play a
part.  For example, no amount of positive thinking will mitigate the very
physical effect of "Pillow Face;" only time can fix that! This is why I
recommend that she find out how long it takes for her face to feel good and
back-plan her wake up time with that information.
 
Kerry Thompson <alpha@...> also wrote:
"I do think you're right, though, for the grad student Though I'm a late riser,
I often have early rehearsals (early by my standards--9: 00 a.m.). I've
adjusted, and I think the grad student should, and probably can, adjust. It will
take a bit of time to get used to playing in the morning, and that may never be
her best time of day, but one should learn to be
competent at any hour."

I cannot say this better, so I won't!
 
Respectfully Submitted,
Scott Young

 
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you, Paul!
 
 
During my first semester of college, I was in a brass quintet. We met twice a
week, one of those times being 8:00 am Monday morning!! That meant showing up at
7:30 for a nice warm-up, or showing up at 7:58 and learing to play without
warming up. I got very good at the latter.
 
Having a lesson at 9:00 am is aslo a good way to learn to play well in the
morning.
 
That has helped me later in life when I have a 6:00 am shift and I have to "hit
the ground running".
 
Bill Tyler      
Charlotte NC Air Traffic Cntrol Tower
 


--- On Wed, 11/11/09, corno911@... <corno911@...> wrote:



 
 
 



Early morning, Early evening, Very late night,
It does not matter.

The reality is, if you want to play professionally, you do not set your
playing schedule.

You have to learn to play your best at any time.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul has a lot of really good points. Sometimes, you just have to "Inner
Game" it. Some of the things that have helped me are things like the concept
of "creative not caring." Where you just kinda, well, don't care. And that
releases you to just play. I would check the book out from the library and
read it between early morning practice sessions.


Stephen
Leacock<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/stephen_leacock.html>
- "I detest life-insurance agents: they always argue that I shall some
day
die, which is not so."

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 23:32, <corno911@...> wrote:

> Early morning, Early evening, Very late night,
> It does not matter.
>
> The reality is, if you want to play professionally, you do not set your
> playing schedule.
>
> You have to learn to play your best at any time.
>
> You will probably encounter:
>
>          early morning rehearsals and performances for school concerts.
>
>          early orchestral rehearsals (sometimes).
>
>          very early and very late quintet or chamber music rehearsals.
>
>          If you do recording sessions, sometimes they are scheduled at
>           the strangest times. Often they are scheduled around many
> players
>           different performance schedules.
>
> You have get used to it and just do it.
>
> There may be times when you have to play concerts when it is the last
> thing in the world you would choose to do that day or night, but you do
> it anyway.
>
> Always remember, of all the things some people have to get up early to
> do, playing a concert isn't really such a  bad a thing to have to do.
>
> Train yourself to play your best under all types of circumstances and
> times.
>
> How?      Just do it !
>
> Read the   "Just Do It"   section of Froydis' book- it may
> help.
>
> If you have a 9:30 concert practice at 8 am for a while. Maybe after a
> week or so, playing as late as  9:30 will feel like a relief.
>
> If you think you will have a hard time playing at 9:30, then you
> probably will.
> If you can focus on the music you are playing and not your physical
> feeling, keep a positive outlook toward your recital, believe that you
> will do your best, and practice competently during early mornings, you
> will do much better than if you keep telling yourself or worrying that
> you won't make it through the recital.
>
> Paul Navarro
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]