I've used a flipper (different from a duck's foot) most of my horn
playing years, because of using a horn at the beginning (when I was
45) that had the finger hook set for a much larger hand. With that
horn, before I got a horn with a flipper, I made my own leather strap
that worked great, out of lightweight, flexible suede. It's just two
loops....one that fastens with velcro behind the finger hook, which
holds it in place, and then a second loop, at right angles to the
first one, that is big enough to put your hand through; it threads
under the first loop and is adjusted with a set of D rings. Very easy
to "design" and use, and cheap too, if you are even slightly handy
with a needle and thread.

I'm not at all fond of what is called a duck's foot, which is
uncomfortable for me. The flipper  is just a padded, curved piece of
metal on a hinge, attached to the horn just upstream of the first,
biggest knuckle on your index finger. It easily takes the entire
weight of the horn and your hand is completely free to move....much
more so than with a finger hook. which constrains the pinky and often
the ring finger because of constraining the pinky. With my small
hands, the flipper is perfect; someone with large hands might find
that locating a flipper next to the largest knuckle isn't
ergonomically viable, and might find a duck's foot a better choice.

MA

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "k11747" <k11747@...> wrote:
> i tried another horn players set up with a clebsch strap and it
> feels good.  Does it restrict you index finger I'm wondering?  Its
> killin me,
>

The hand strap is less restrictive IMO than any other device.  I have never
found a duck's foot to be any more comfortable than a pinky hook but that is
just me personally.  I have used hand straps since 1993 when I made copys of one
that George McCracken had made for my exwife's horn.  My current favorite is the
Alexander version but Hans Clebsch's strap is also very good.  The salient point
to the hand strap is less that a bracket is soldered on the horn but that one
should NOT make it too tight to the horn at the upper securing point
(velcro/lace/whatever).  Doing so creates tension on the mouthpipe which is not
good.

The Jack Attack!

I have small hands but always used the finger hook.  I finally had enough pain
that I had the hook taken off and had a duck's foot put on.  I do have to take
it off and put it on everytime it goes into the case, but still like this much,
much better.  I even tried playing without the hook or the duck's foot.  I
needed the duck's foot for security.

Nancy








--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "k11747" <k11747@...> wrote:
>
> I have some weird thing going on with my little finger. it got positioned
wrong in the adj finger hook, and it twinges now, and affects the movement of
the 3ed valve finger. A part of the tendon was pinched.
> From what I have read, the pinky affects the ring finger a lot, which is quite
different than the other fingers, that are independent. i tried another horn
players set up with a clebsch strap and it feels good.  Does it restrict you
index finger I'm wondering?  Its killin me,
>

Don't forget Gail Williams the mountain climber, Frank Lloyd the runner, Roger
Kaza with all his physical escapades, and Barry Tuckwell, who was reputed to get
up in the morning, play a high C, then swim all the way across the lake up at
Dartmouth first thing in the morning before his practice and teaching day!  And
there was a time when most members of the BSO horn section were out wind surfing
every available moment.

The trouble with even anecdotal research on humans is we are all built so
differently.  Some people seem to be able to smoke, sit around, live as couch
potatoes, practice very little, and still play like goddesses, or gods.  Some of
us humans just need to work very hard and get all the help we possibly can. 
What works for you?

I'm off for now.

Jean

I've used Clebsch straps on my last two horns and recommend them without
reservation. If it is positioned correctly, it won't restrict any finger
movement. In fact, I tried it initially to alleviate the problem you are talking
about. I removed the pinky hook altogether and just let the pinky float like
some 18th century fop sipping tea. Really frees up the ring finger. I like to
play standing and it is especially helpful there. Try it, I don't think you'll
be disappointed. One thing to note: a fitting must be soldered to the horn to
accomodate the strap.

On Nov 15, 2009, at 1:06 AM, "k11747" <k11747@...> wrote:

I have some weird thing going on with my little finger. it got positioned wrong
in the adj finger hook, and it twinges now, and affects the movement of the 3ed
valve finger. A part of the tendon was pinched.
From what I have read, the pinky affects the ring finger a lot, which is quite
different than the other fingers, that are independent. i tried another horn
players set up with a clebsch strap and it feels good. Does it restrict you
index finger I'm wondering? Its killin me,







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have some weird thing going on with my little finger. it got positioned wrong
in the adj finger hook, and it twinges now, and affects the movement of the 3ed
valve finger. A part of the tendon was pinched.
From what I have read, the pinky affects the ring finger a lot, which is quite
different than the other fingers, that are independent. i tried another horn
players set up with a clebsch strap and it feels good.  Does it restrict you
index finger I'm wondering?  Its killin me,

I can empathize with Judith and playing after 25 years off.  I too took a 25
years hiatus, but have been having a wonderful time recently!
The key here is patience - to build strength, to re-establish habits that have
slumbered for too long, too remember what playing the horn should feel like!
A few minutes at a time, until tired (not exhausted!), 5-7 times a day.  It
doesn't take long at the beginning.  No high notes, no low notes - just be a
beginner for awhile.
As the muscles, both embouchure and breathing, become more toned the sound will
improve, the endurance will slowly increase and playing will feel easier.  When
you feel some strength, push the range up a bit.  How long did this take when
one was a beginner???
It won't be long before the "feeling" of horn playing starts to become familiar
again.

All the best,
David Watson


       __________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your
favourite sites. Download it now
http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

Judabeth, Have you noticed how shy and retiring we all are about giving advice? 
;o)  You're probably running for cover after all this.

Valerie Wells
The  Balanced Embouchure for French  Horn
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

____________________________________________________________
Online College Degrees
Advance your education and jumpstart your career. Research schools!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=qUf9hTtahjWQ0vdbXMkGHQAAJz2kDH22Xz\
TNl0VwKAzN5LpwAAQAAAAFAAAAAO5yuj4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABSJAAAAAA=

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, Herbert Foster <herb_foster@...> wrote:
" Unfortunately, the drummer doesn't know that, and we get, "pah..tat." At least
we keep the tempo up, and the director gets on the drummer's case.
>
> Herb Foster

This seems to be endemic with amateur snare drummers! Not all of them but a
large percentage are behind the beat. I had opportunity to closely observe one
of these late-tat-drummers in the past, and I saw that he was starting his
stroke on the beat, so in his head he was exactly on the beat; but when I
pointed out to him that starting his stroke on the beat was different from
hearing the sound of the stroke hitting the snare on the beat, a light bulb went
on for him. Unfortunately he was unable to change his very long-term habit even
after he understood what he was doing.

Perhaps your drummer is doing the same thing.

MA

I think that might be because being in good shape helps one to be a better horn
player, but not necessarily a better musician.  It might be that people who have
jobs are good enough musicians to overcome the slight handicap they might be
giving their hornplaying abilities by not being in shape. Orchestras want to
hire a musical contributor, not just a horn player.

My teacher has pointed out that there are very few things he can't do on horn,
and if he can't do them, he's heard them done.  Hence, a technically stunning
performance doesn't impress him.  A musically stunning performance, though,
will, even if there are a few technical slips.

My two cents,
Ben



________________________________
From: Kerry Thompson <alpha@...>


Despite the fact that we agree, though, there's something nagging at me
about this whole fitness thing. We both know a lot of successful pros
playing at a very high level. Yet, when I run through the successful horn
players I know, and have known, I can think of very few who are in good
physical shape. There are exceptions, of course--Danny Katzen and Kevin Owen
are a couple who come to mind as locals--but the vast majority of seats in
the country's top 20 orchestras are filled by people who are, at best, in
average physical shape (and average, in America, isn't very good).

So, how do we reconcile this? We both agree that overall fitness improves
our horn playing. Yet most of the successful professionals are not in shape.

I don't have an answer. I'm just raising the question. I bet the discussion
will be interesting ^_^

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jean Rife wrote:

> Kerry, thank you for the explanation of slow twitch and fast twitch
muscles.  And I
> also agree with Herb, Martin, and Debbie (I get the digest).  But I would
argue also
> that we remember we are not simply building up face muscles.  It takes a
whole
> body to play the horn.  Not only do we have slow twitch and fast twitch,
but we
> have small muscle groups (the whole embouchure) which are mostly involved
> with speed and accuracy (trills, hitting the right notes) and the large
muscles (legs,
> four layers of abdominals, and other core muscles) which are involved in
creating
> sound, endurance, strength, accents, dynamics, etc.  In my forty years'
experience
> teaching, I have found very few students concerned with much below that
little bit
> around the mouthpiece.  But most of the playing comes from there.  I'm
pretty sure
> that when Kerry lifts 300 pounds, the power does not come from the
fingers.

You're right about that. The dead lift involves just about every muscle on
the back side of your body, and then some.

Jean, I know your reputation as one of the best teachers in the Boston area,
and an accomplished professional horn player. One day we'll meet, I'm
sure--Boston isn't that big a town.

We're on the same page regarding general fitness--I started my fitness
regimen partly to improve my horn playing, and it has helped. I know you use
other techniques such as yoga, but they are different paths to the same
goal. Good health and fitness have enhanced my horn playing, and should help
me keep playing at a reasonably high level for years to come.

Despite the fact that we agree, though, there's something nagging at me
about this whole fitness thing. We both know a lot of successful pros
playing at a very high level. Yet, when I run through the successful horn
players I know, and have known, I can think of very few who are in good
physical shape. There are exceptions, of course--Danny Katzen and Kevin Owen
are a couple who come to mind as locals--but the vast majority of seats in
the country's top 20 orchestras are filled by people who are, at best, in
average physical shape (and average, in America, isn't very good).

So, how do we reconcile this? We both agree that overall fitness improves
our horn playing. Yet most of the successful professionals are not in shape.

I don't have an answer. I'm just raising the question. I bet the discussion
will be interesting ^_^

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "judabeth" <judabeth@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years.  I want to
get in practice again to have fun playing again.

This is almost the exact same situation I was in--age, length of time off the
horn, kind of horn I had <g>--when I started back.

1. What Debbie Schmidt said. Every last word.

2. I'd emphasize getting a teacher ASAP who can put it across in a way you can
understand. The best teachers will have hundreds of ways of explaining the same
thing, since you never can tell what wavelength a student is on. This is the
major thing I did NOT do when I started playing again that I regret. I waited a
year or so because I wanted to be in better shape before I went to a teacher,
and I would have progressed much faster had I studied privately from the start.
Huge mistake.

Howard Sanner
hornlist@...

You are certainly right, Jean. The whole body is involved in horn playing--as in
most any musical performance activity (not involving electronic production,
perhaps). Even more so as we gain decades of, err, experience. In my case,
however, I was already a relatively accomplished amateur singer, and the major
issues involved the embouchure. Of course it helps that I commute to work on a
bicycle--five hours of aerobic exercise per week.

Don't forget another area of the body: the ears. I think the horn may take
better ears than does singing.

Herb Foster




________________________________
From: Jean Rife <jeanrife@...>
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 14, 2009 1:33:10 PM
Subject: [horn] Re: Wanting to Play again

Kerry, thank you for the explanation of slow twitch and fast twitch muscles. 
And I also agree with Herb, Martin, and Debbie (I get the digest).  But I would
argue also that we remember we are not simply building up face muscles.  It
takes a whole body to play the horn.  Not only do we have slow twitch and fast
twitch, but we have small muscle groups (the whole embouchure) which are mostly
involved with speed and accuracy (trills, hitting the right notes) and the large
muscles (legs, four layers of abdominals, and other core muscles) which are
involved in creating sound, endurance, strength, accents, dynamics, etc.  In my
forty years' experience teaching, I have found very few students concerned with
much below that little bit around the mouthpiece.  But most of the playing comes
from there.  I'm pretty sure that when Kerry lifts 300 pounds, the power does
not come from the fingers.

If the whole body is attended to, the embouchure will not be so
problematic--guaranteed!

Jean Rife

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll agree with what Jean said 100%!  It takes the whole body. Other kinds
of exercise really help.

Dave (who took some Yoga from Jean a few years back and is now a proponent
of Pilates which is great for the core).

Kerry, thank you for the explanation of slow twitch and fast twitch muscles. 
And I also agree with Herb, Martin, and Debbie (I get the digest).  But I would
argue also that we remember we are not simply building up face muscles.  It
takes a whole body to play the horn.  Not only do we have slow twitch and fast
twitch, but we have small muscle groups (the whole embouchure) which are mostly
involved with speed and accuracy (trills, hitting the right notes) and the large
muscles (legs, four layers of abdominals, and other core muscles) which are
involved in creating sound, endurance, strength, accents, dynamics, etc.  In my
forty years' experience teaching, I have found very few students concerned with
much below that little bit around the mouthpiece.  But most of the playing comes
from there.  I'm pretty sure that when Kerry lifts 300 pounds, the power does
not come from the fingers.

If the whole body is attended to, the embouchure will not be so
problematic--guaranteed!

Jean Rife

Debbie Schmidt wrote:

> Don't play past the point of fatigue. Take it off your face rest
> and start playing again later. Playing while severely fatigued makes one
> distort their embouchure.

Debbie gave you some very sound advice, all of which I agree with. I'd like
to expand on the fatigue factor. Forgive the length of the post, but it's
vital information that can't be condensed much further.

A little background first so you can understand where I am coming from. I'm
a physical fitness guy--some would call me a nut case. I've exercised
regularly most of my life, and learned a lot from my coaches, trainers,
classes, and scientific articles. I laid off the exercise for about 5 years,
got out of shape, but went back to it as my New Year's resolution this year,
so I'm up on the latest research. What follows is based on sound exercise
physiology.

Your embouchure is largely determined by the muscles around your lips, in
your chin, cheeks, and jaw. There are other factors, of course--mouthpiece
placement, tooth and jaw shape, and general good form. I'll only focus on
the muscles, because you need to build muscle strength and endurance.

Your muscles are formed of fibers, and you have pretty much a set number of
fibers in each muscle. The muscle's strength is directly related to the
thickness of the muscle's fibers. There are other factors such as muscle
length, tendon length, and the like, but we don't have a lot of control over
those.

So let's talk about how you strengthen a muscle--it's not a lot different
for the horn than for a weight lifter.

To achieve optimal muscle growth, you have to work the muscle to exhaustion,
or, as exercise physiologists say, to the point of momentary failure. If you
were doing push-ups, this would be the point at which, no matter how hard
you try, you simply cannot push yourself up one more time. This is momentary
failure--wait 40 seconds, and the muscles will have recovered enough that
you can do more, but not right now. Your push-up muscles have physically
failed--but that's good.

Physiologically, what has happened is that you have created microscopic
tears on the muscle fibers. The body will respond by thickening the fibers,
and the muscle will grow thicker and stronger. It takes the body about 3-4
days to repair the muscle, but that's more important to weight lifters like
me than to horn players--I'll explain why in a moment.

It's pointless to push your muscle further once you have reached that point
of momentary failure. I believe this is what Debbie is talking about when
she says to not play past the point of fatigue. If you try, you will
compensate by using pressure or utilizing inappropriate muscles. That's a
setback, not progress.

Now, the difference between weight lifting and horn playing. There are
basically two types of muscle fibers: fast-twitch and slow-twitch. A
sprinter depends more on the fast-twitch muscles, while a distance runner
depends more on the slow-twitch muscles.

As horn players, we use both, but we use the slow-twitch muscles more.
They're the muscles that give us the endurance to play a long, sustained
high note pianissimo. As a weight lifter, I use the fast-twitch muscles
more--it takes a burst of power to lift 300 pounds off the floor, an
exercise we call the "dead lift." As horn players, we use the fast-twitch
muscles for accented attacks, quick slurs, and that deadly high Bb entrance
in Beethoven 4.

Fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscles develop differently. As a weight lifter,
I work the muscles to failure very quickly by lifting very heavy weights.
I'll only do 5 repetitions of the dead lift at 300 pounds to reach momentary
failure.

As a horn player, I develop the slow-twitch muscles by working them longer,
at lower stress levels, much as I do in my cardiovascular exercises. I do an
hour of cardio work 4-5 times a week, but that's going beyond ordinary
fitness--I'm trying to burn calories and lose my spare tire.

Optimal cardiovascular health can be obtained by about a half hour of
low-intensity work per day. When I say low intensity, I mean that you feel
warm, but you can still carry on a conversation--you should be able to get
out a full sentence without needing a breath. At my age, 60, that means a
heart rate around 120. I actually work primarily in the 140-170 range, but,
as I said, I have goals beyond cardiovascular health.

As a horn player, I develop the slow-twitch endurance muscles the same way,
with low-stress but lengthy workouts. For you, lengthy might be 10 minutes
at this point, but it will improve. Do the 10 minutes, then rest, as Debbie
says. Then come back and do 10 minutes more. And then 10 minutes more.

Within a week, you'll be up to 15 minutes, and probably up to 30 minutes
within a month. I actually don't recommend that my students practice more
than an hour at a stretch. Even if you're doing Wagner, you don't play that
long without a break. For a very advanced student, three one-hour practice
sessions a day are probably enough to land a job in a professional
orchestra, given the appropriate talent and training.

If you read this far, I hope it helps.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson

Hi, Learning normally takes a course of spurts and a variety of plateaus and
slow climbs. Don't be discouraged if you are on the right track playing will
start to click and you will have a very quick series of steep climbs.

Regarding muscle building, at this point 10 minutes on 10 to 15 off playing
easy middle range songs throughout the day. You might need  10 on and 60 off
at first. Don't play past the point of fatigue. Take it off your face rest
and start playing again later. Playing while severely fatigued makes one
distort their embouchure. Do some listening, do some off the horn exercises
like counting when you become fatigued.

Maintaining a pitch should come quickly as long as we are speaking of a
pitch that is in your current range (which is probably about a fifth).

I fall on the side of getting a lesson or 2 early on. We strive to make
playing mechanics automatic, once they are automatic it is  more difficult
to change them. So getting the basics right from the start is  a great place
to start. The students I have that started with a teacher progress faster
then those that did not.

I have (had) many returning horn students in my studio, they are from varied
backgrounds (horn performance majors from great schools to never played the
instrument before) they all have their  own "story" . I would say 90%
stopped playing the horn because they reached an impasse and stayed on a
plateau  (could not play high, could not play low, could not count) and were
not improving. I can tell you from experience that if you revert back to how
you played when you stopped that you will still face the same challenges you
were encountering when you stopped playing the horn.

I think texts, DVD's and other instructional materials are great resources
but at this point should be an adjunct to having a teacher. Read the
material and challenge the teacher to explain. Ask good questions a great
teacher can explain the why's. If need be get a second opinion but beware of
"too many cooks in the kitchen". Try some teachers ask for references see
who you feel comfortable with and who helps you from the first lesson.

A good teacher will also help you find places to play.

Debbie Schmidt
Tisch Center for the Arts

Right on, Herb.

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Herbert Foster <herb_foster@...> wrote:

From: Herbert Foster <herb_foster@...>
Subject: Re: [horn] Wanting to Play again
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 5:27 PM



       Well, I didn't play from age 20 to 65. It's a slow process. The older you
are, the slower. However, maturity brings you--maturity. And patience. The best
advice I can give is to find a group to play with. It gives you something to
work for.



Get the Farkas book Art of French Horn Playing. I found it valuable, though
everything in it is not gospel. Find a teacher and take some lessons.



Herb Foster

Thou I am a professional Horn player, years ago I was hired by the Jupiter High
School Band (in Florida to work with the Trumpets, as Fred Schmitt was working
with the Horns. We would sit in office until time to work. Fred and I had many
discussions. I have forgotten all but one thing he said, which still today I use
in my teaching: "What works for you". That is: I may be doing the wrong thing by
encouraging all students to do as I do. I do a lot of lip playing which is lots
of fun and will encourage students to do it, but will NOT force them to do it.
And the same with other things. Enlighten them to try it, but not insist on it.
   Therefore Judabeth, give what I have to say to you a try, as it MAY work
for you.
Breath from your waist and under your diaphragm. Pant like a dog to get the
feel. I never raise my shoulders to breath, Learn to 'play' your lips, it is
lots of fun and easy to improvise on familiar tunes. "For me" it helps when
there are times when I can't get to the Horn. My right hand position is straight
down the center of the bell, unless stopped Horn is necessary.
Read several method books including the latest ones. But remember: "What works
for you" is the bottom line.
(Some of my background includes: Alternate Principal Horn - Pittsburgh Symphony,
Principal Horn - Phoenix Symphony, Principal Horn - Honolulu Symphony -
Principal Horn - North Carolina Symphony and Third with the Chicago Lyric Opera)
(I'll be 80 January 18 and still teaching and performing for money.)


--- On Wed, 11/11/09, judabeth <judabeth@...> wrote:

From: judabeth <judabeth@...>
Subject: [horn] Wanting to Play again
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 12:52 AM







 









       Hello everyone,

I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years.  I want to get
in practice again to have fun playing again.  I just got a Conn 8D and have
started practicing.  I have only been playing now for 5 days.  When I was in
music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it worked better but I
didn't play much after that.  Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement.  Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus?  What should I
expect regarding the building up of muscle again.  I didn't realize how much I
can't do -even maintaining a pitch.  I don't know what to expect.  How long does
it take to be able to play again?  I'm a little discouraged but still eager to
play again.  Any advice? Help? How and what should I be practicing?

Thank You,

Judith






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The last statement reminded me of something we (and I) do: finishing the advice
with the undesired behavior. The mind tends to ignore the "don't" and is left
with, "let the bad days get you down." A better alternative could be, "Just let
the bad days slide on by."

My band director, who is otherwise very good, admonishes, "Don't slow down!" So
the band hears "Slow down!" A better alternative would be, "We're slowing down
here. Keep the tempo up!"

I tell the horn section, "Keep ahead of the beat. By the time the 'Pah' reaches
the audience, it will be on time." Unfortunately, the drummer doesn't know that,
and we get, "pah..tat." At least we keep the tempo up, and the director gets on
the drummer's case.

Herb Foster




________________________________
From: Tina Barkan <tina.barkan@...>
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 3:25:13 PM
Subject: RE: [horn] Wanting to Play again

Hi Judith,



I started playing again about a year and a half ago after a 36 year layoff.
You can do it. I have a blog that documents my adventure, good days and bad
days, music that I started with, mouthpieces and so on. It's all there at
newhornist.com. There are days when it's a real struggle and days when you
play like you used to and realize how wonderful it is to play the horn.
Keep at it and don't let the bad days get you down.



Sincerely,

Tina



4th Chair Shoreham Wading River Band

4th Chair Riverhead Band

newhornist.com





From: horn@yahoogroups.com [mailto:horn@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
judabeth
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:52 PM
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [horn] Wanting to Play again





Hello everyone,
I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years. I want to
get in practice again to have fun playing again. I just got a Conn 8D and
have started practicing. I have only been playing now for 5 days. When I was
in music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it workded better
but I didn't play much after that. Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement. Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus? What should
I expect regarding the building up of muscle again. I didn't realize how
much I can't do -even maintaining a pitch. I don't know what to expect. How
long does it take to be able to play again? I'm a little discouraged but
still eager to play again. Any advice? Help? How and what should I be
practicing?
Thank You,
Judith





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Finished lunch a little early but not early enough to do anything
useful. So I'll chime in. Two more or less unrelated comments, but
I'll post both at once so as to save clutter.

First. I agree wholeheartedly with Jean Rife. Get some exercise. That
is a good piece of advice for life in general. But it will really help
in regard to this early morning playing thread. Aerobic work builds
the capillary structures which are so important to any muscle function
(e.g. breathing muscles and embouchure). Also helps electrolytic
balances which can flush out that puffiness that Jean referred to, as
well as residual muscle soreness. Light exercise an hour or two before
the recital wouldn't hurt (yes, I understand what time of the morning
we are talking about). But just generally staying fit and health
conscious will help no matter when you do the work. You don't have to
train for marathons (though it doesn't hurt). Just anything to wake up
the lungs, muscles, circulatory system, etc.. By the way, don't start
a big fitness program a few days before the recital. It could cause
shocks to the system that would ill affect your playing. This has to
be an ongoing commitment.

Second. Someone mentioned Kendall Betts' Beethoven 7 story. A number
of you have talked about early morning military service and other such
hazards. So I'll chime in with one of my own--just to make the point
that you have to be ready when the gig says to be ready. The (now
defunct) Music Festival of Arkansas was given a PR bonanza sometime
back in the early 90's when the CBS morning news show (Good Morning
America, maybe?) did a feature on our festival. Their theme song was
"Oh What a Beautiful Morning". So the orchestra learned an arrangement
and showed up at some ungodly hour to do the thing live. Once we got
there, the producer told our festival director that they had extra
time in the segment and could we play something else. We were working
on Hanson's Romantic Symphony for our upcoming concert. So completely
without warning I got to play the first movement (which I
affectionately refer to as the Hanson Horn Concerto) live, on national
TV at something like 8:00am. I can tell this story with a smile
because it went well. But believe me, it could easily have gone south.
So you just never know.

The UW Oshkosh Horn Choir will be giving a concert next Tuesday 11/17 at 7:00 PM
in the Music Hall, Arts and Communications Center, at UW Oshkosh on Algoma Blvd.
Admission is free. Works by John Williams, Rossini, Andrew Lloyd Webber, etc.

Welcome, Judith!

We're the same age.  I decided to come back to horn four years ago after not
playing for 33 years.  It's been a  joy ride.  I'm having more fun than a body
ought to be allowed to have!   I've enjoyed playing principal, low horn, in a
horn quartet, church orchestras, various ad hoc ensembles and only yesterday in
a brass quintet for a Veteran's Day celebration.  It's very satisfying to serve
my community with my horn.

One addition to the great advice the others have offered:  Someone advised that
you get a good teacher so that you will "get it right this time."  Getting a
good instructor is a great idea, but be careful because even the best teachers
can "mess up" when it comes to the embouchure, especially when they try to tell
you what your embouchure should "look" like and where to place the mouthpiece. 
In my personal experience, the qualified teachers (university professors and
conservatory trained horn players) who tried to "fix" my embouchure only made it
worse.  (I actually had good chops before the "experts" got their hands on me.)

If you had an instructor previously that helped your embouchure function better,
you were lucky!  I and many others were not so fortunate.  I'd advise you to
keep playing on your own and eventually your ear will guide you to what you were
doing before.  It's like riding a bicycle, what you did before is still inbedded
in your memory.  I believe what you did sucessfully before will come back to you
if you don't let anyone interfere with the process.

Anyway . . . I finally developed great chops by following the advise of a
trumpet teacher in Garland, Texas.  His method worked very well for me because
his range of motion exercises taught me to focus on the sound my chops produce
rather than what they look like.  His method does not prescribe a "correct"
one-size-fits-all embouchure.

So, of course, for chops work, I always advise people to tell their horn
instructors to keep their "expert" hands off the chops!   I've recorded more of
the details of my experience on my blog.  Please stop by and visit: 
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

While I actively promote this method, I don't advise come back horn players try
this method until they've played long enough for their natural embouchure to
stabalize on it's own -- probably six months or a year.  Too many new things,
too soon can be confusing and counter productive.

For a good self help book for horn, I always recommend Wendell Rider's book. 
His warm up was life changing for me.

Valerie Wells
"The Balanced Embouchure" for French Horn
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/



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The Symphony of the Potomac will perform the first concert of it's 2009-2010
season on Sunday, November 15, at 3 PM in the auditorium of Wootton High School.

Wagner: Flying Dutchman Overture
Mendelssohn: Piano Concerto #1, Alon Goldstein pianist
Brahms: Symphony no. 4

For more information, advance tickets, and directions, please see
symphonypotomac.org.

(PS -- all attendees under 18 are free)

Margaret Dikel
horn / librarian
Symphony of the Potomac


Margaret F. Dikel
The Riley Guide
11218 Ashley Dr.
Rockville, MD  20852
301-881-0122
mfriley@...
www.rileyguide.com

Keep it simple. Focus on the basics. Don't expect too much too soon,
particularly with respect to the high register. Get a book of hymns or
traditional tunes and read it as horn in C (i.e. keep it to the mid-range for
now). Reconnect with making music. That will make the time spent building back
up more rewarding. Most "comebacks" that fail in my experience result from
people not being patient enough and only playing etudes and exercises. They get
disappointed that they cannot "make music" anymore. We are lucky, a simple
mid-range tune on the horn can sound as glorious as a Beethoven symphony.Just to
add to what was said, you can transpose some etudes for horn in C. For example,
if you're studying a Kopprasch or Kling etude, it's good to transpose it in C if
you're proficient in transposition. I do that sometimes to work on the low
range. I agree, it's a good idea to keep it low for now and then build up the
range. One book you can get, Judith, is
  the "Grand Theoretical and Practical Method for Valve Horn" by Josef Schantl.
This book has several etudes based on scales in different keys. You can
transpose some of those in different keys to work on the low range. And, yes,
this book focuses on developing a solid low range and some exercises are in the
high range. It's published by Wind Music in the Atlanta area.  Again, it will
take a lot of time to get a solid high range, so take your time with developing
the basics and hymns and a book of basic tunes transposing them in C would work
for now. Best wishes in getting back into horn playing, Judith.
Mike Keegan,Eastwinds Music,Milwaukee, WI

Hi,
I am happy to announce that I will be hosting a 2 day workshop, called
"Horns By The bay," at San Francisco State University on the weekend
of January 30 & 31, 2010. The hours will be 9-5 each day.

Guests will be Brian Fredericksen, long time assistant to Arnold
Jacobs, Bill Kilingelhoffer, principal of the SF Opera orchestra,
James Decker, legendary Hollywood player, and his Ivasi music system
and Dr. Steven Gross of the University of California at Santa Barbara.
I will also be doing some of my things, including a preview of my new
book and DVD about Purposeful Practice, and conducting the horn choir.
Admission will be $30 per single day or $50 for both days.

This is going to be fun and full of interesting events and
presentations. For example, Brian Fredericksen is going to be showing
actual footage of Jacobs working with students and discussing his
masterful thoughts on breathing and the psychology and musicality of
performance. There are actually 2 different presentations plus a
Jacobs panel discussion. Any wind player would be interested in this
rare footage so I am probably going to make this available separately
to people who want to come just for this. There will be a small
admission charge for those who come just for that. So tell your wind
playing friends.

Rather than going into all of it here, I direct you to the web
location below, where you can see more details and download a poster/
brochure/registration form. There are master class opportunities, so
send in your registration ASAP with what you would like to play.

http://wendellworld.com/html/HornDay.html

There will be a schedule of events for each day up on my site soon. If
you have any other questions you can email me personally or on this
board.
Help spread the word about this unique event!
Sincerely,
Wendell
For info about my book, DVDs and live video chat horn lessons, see my
web site at www.wendellworld.com

Keep it simple. Focus on the basics. Don't expect too much too soon,
particularly with respect to the high register. Get a book of hymns or
traditional tunes and read it as horn in C (i.e. keep it to the mid-range for
now). Reconnect with making music. That will make the time spent building back
up more rewarding. Most "comebacks" that fail in my experience result from
people not being patient enough and only playing etudes and exercises. They get
disappointed that they cannot "make music" anymore. We are lucky, a simple
mid-range tune on the horn can sound as glorious as a Beethoven symphony.


--- In horn@yahoogroups.com, "judabeth" <judabeth@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> I am 55 years old and haven't played the horn for over 25 years.  I want to
get in practice again to have fun playing again.  I just got a Conn 8D and have
started practicing.  I have only been playing now for 5 days.  When I was in
music school my teacher changed my embochure so that it workded better but I
didn't play much after that.  Now I am trying to remember the embochure
placement.  Has anyone come back to the horn after a long hiatus?  What should I
expect regarding the building up of muscle again.  I didn't realize how much I
can't do -even maintaining a pitch.  I don't know what to expect.  How long does
it take to be able to play again?  I'm a little discouraged but still eager to
play again.  Any advice? Help? How and what should I be practicing?
> Thank You,
> Judith
>

Good Evening Everyone,
I would like to announce a couple of concerts this weekend in Milwaukee. The
first one is the Prata Duo, Steve Wolff, Piano, and myself. It will take place
this Saturday the 14th at Joyce Parker Productions located at 2685 S.
Kinnickinnic Ave. in Milwaukee's Bay View neighborhood. The concert is part of
the Music on KK series, which takes place from 3-4.

Program:
Chabrier Larghetto
Bourrees I&II from Suite No.3 in C Major, BWV1009 - Bach (I transcribed those
for horn)
Sonata in C Major for Solo Piano, K545 - Mozart
Fantasia in D Minor for Solo Piano, K397 - Mozart
Largo from Reger's 2nd Cello Suite (I also transcribed this for horn)
Mozart 1

The following Sunday is the all-Mozart concert for Eastwinds. This will take
place at St. Mark's Episcopal Church, 2618 N. Hackett Ave. on Milwaukee's East
Side. Pieces will include both piano works listed above, Mozart 1, the first and
second mvts. of Mozart 3, and I transcribed six of the horn duets for flute and
horn. I will be joined by flautist Carolyn Atwell on the Mozart duets. Admission
is $8 - Adults, $6 - Seniors, $3 - High School and College Students, and members
of St. Mark's Episcopal Church, and Children 14 and Under, free admission. A
reception will follow in the Guild Hall after the concert.

For more information about these concerts, please feel free to e-mail me offlist
for directions and more info. I look forward to seeing you there if you live in
the Milwaukee, Madison, Racine, Kenosha, and Chicago areas.

Sincerely,
Mike Keegan,
Executive, Musical, and Artistic Director,
Eastwinds Chamber Ensemble and Music,
Milwaukee, WI






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To all that might be interested:

I am playing a recital with pianist Steve Larson at the Interlochen Arts Academy
this Saturday, November 14th at 3:10 pm. The recital will take place at the
Dendrinos Chapel & Recital Hall on the campus grounds. Music will include
Lorenz, Planel, Dunhill, Ketting, Damase and Wilder. A masterclass will follow
the recital.

Karl Pituch
Principal Horn
Detroit Symphony

OSS Jedburgh:  That I can recall.  Thanks for the offer; usually I run
through/by Boston in June.  I will be sure to archive this letter!
SCY

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, alpha@... <alpha@...> wrote:


From: alpha@... <alpha@...>
Subject: Re: [horn] Early Morning Recitals
To: horn@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 3:33 PM


 



Scott Young wrote:

> Never mind; Google is my friend.  Kerry, would you mind facilitating this
> the next time Mark and I are in Boston?

Gladly. We have some surprisingly good local microbreweries here in
Puritanical New England. Mark and I will be waiting for you (Mark lives
just an hour away). Bring your horn and we'll do some trios as long as we
can stay sober.

As a final parting note, I genuinely do admire our military personnel,
active and retired. My dad was a commando fighting behind German lines in
France in WWII (an OSS Jedburgh--you can Google that, too), and he's my
hero.

Cordially,

Kerry Thompson











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]