At 01:50 PM 11/10/2009, you wrote:
>Bet you weren't singin' "Kumbaya", either...

No, but you got the first syllable.

In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "funkifized34" <Funkifized@...> wrote:
  This Kumbaya crap is useless and wrong. Spending excess time on studying how
your finger touches the string is time far better spent on actually playing the
damned instrument.

I hear you, but don't completely agree. Learning 'touch' on the guitar is
crucial. I have had many students experience ah ha! moments when thinking about
and feeling the necessary force to make strings sound.
In teaching I try and show how extra force, particularly with the fretting hand,
is unnecessary, counter productive, and dangerous. If I have misunderstood,
excuse me.
At any rate, Come by here, My Lord. I need any help You would give. ;-)
Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: jpaul00 <jpaul00@...>
Subject: [jazz_guitar] Re: Wait a minute.......Andy?

>I have had some success with baking soda or freshly ground coffee
> beans placed in a container in the case with a musty guitar.

Well,

    Just to report back.......after 2+ weeks there was definite progress with the
baking soda, but not 100% clearance.  So we will keep at it.   I certainly
appreciate the help.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "musicmaker1245" <musicmaker1245@...> wrote:
>
> --- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "will_halligan" <will@> wrote:
> >
> > That is one of the exam tests in grade 7 bass.
> >
> > Pretty good too,
>
> Will
>
> What exam is that? Can you give some more details.

Indeed - the grade 7 bass exam with which exam board (RGT, ABRSM, Trinity
Guildhall, Rockschool, etc)?

William

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Bob Hansmann <bobbybmusic@...>wrote:

> My students prefer Scotch. They're classier, I guess, but, as I said,
> they are the upper 5%.

Unless that Scotch comes in a plastic 1.5L jug, in which case they are
probably the lower 5%....

:^)

Blake



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

DId this involve a basket?

Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker

On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Bob Hansmann wrote:

> > I have heard that Carmine Caruso, a great trumpet teacher, was so
> into
> > having players play with as little pressure against the lips as
> possible
> > that he hung a trumpet from the ceiling on strings and had the
> student
> > walk
> > up to the horn and play w/o touching it...
>
> I had an old girlfriend who... oh, wait. That's for a later crowd...
>
> :-),
> Bobby
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anyone who has spent any time in the CG world taking lessons or
working from books knows you say is true Juan. The mechanics of
playing are nearly irrelevant to playing Walk Don't Run or the head
to Autumn Leaves. But to get much beyond that you kneed all the
advantages you  can muster. Availing yourself of the correct
mechanics to play accurately, or cleanly is the foundation for
acquiring better playing skills.

The post we are responding to, I heard reenacted countless in lift
lines at the ski area where I taught skiing.  It's really not true
for skiing and playing an instrument has counter intuitive aspects to
it just as skiing does. Things that are fine on the bunny and
intermediate slopes, will not get you down a steep bump run. Music is
no different.
Ron
Living and playing outside the box.

http://www.myspace.com/ron45becker

On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:33 AM, JVegaTrio@... wrote:

> "This Kumbaya crap is useless and wrong."
>
> Er, OK then, how do you REALLY feel??? Actually, I think
> there's a bit of value in examining some of the physical aspects
> of playing the guitar, especially for beginners. Learning to play
> guitar is a lot like learning to ride a bike, there are mental,
> visual, and physical/kinetic aspects that need to coalesce in
> order to make things work. I spend a lot of time trying to get
> my beginning students to develop a tension-free playing
> posture, good hand position, etc, because as I tell them,
> "practice makes permanent", and if you practice the wrong thing
> a lot, you can get really good at it.
>
> Those of us who play folk/jazz/rock/pop/blues/etc, kind of get a
> "pass", because we can fudge quite a bit of things when it comes
> to technique; classical/flamenco/Brazilian players don't have the
> same "luxury", so they work really hard at developing good chops,
> and it shows not just visually, but when it comes time to play as
> well.
>
> There are guitar educators out there who have spent a lot of time
> examining the physical aspects of guitar playing, and I think it's
> worth exploring/examining their efforts, even if it's just for the
> sake
> of information. Dennis Sandole (whose pupils included Pat Martino)
> had a whole theory (and exercises) about the relationships bet'n
> fingers, etc. Another great book is "Pumping Nylon"; it's full of
> really good (and challenging) exercises, and Mauro Giuliani's 120
> right-hand exercises is extremely useful as well.
>
> Not all of the stuff out there is "useless and wrong", but where it
> all
> falls flat on its face is when the live, in the room teacher is
> taken out
> of the equation. If this kind of material is utilized in an individual
> lesson (or even in a classroom) situation, then its value increases,
> because of the interactive component. At least, that's my .02.
>
> BTW, I totally agree w/ you on the need to develop music reading
> ability...
>
> Cheers,
> JV
>
> Juan Vega
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Bet you weren't singin' "Kumbaya", either...

I sure was!

best,
Bobby

Bet you weren't singin' "Kumbaya", either...

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega


bobbybmusic@... writes:

I had  an old girlfriend who...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I have heard that Carmine Caruso, a great trumpet teacher, was so into
> having players play with as little pressure against the lips as possible
> that he hung a trumpet from the ceiling on strings and had the student
> walk
> up to the horn and play w/o touching it...

I had an old girlfriend who... oh, wait. That's for a later crowd...

:-),
Bobby

> Maybe, teachers should give the kids a shot of vodka before the session...
> j/k of course..:-)

My students prefer Scotch. They're classier, I guess, but, as I said,
they are the upper 5%.

:-),
Bobby

This Kumbaya crap is useless and wrong. Spending excess time on studying how
> your finger touches the string is time far better spent on actually playing
> the damned instrument.


Sounds like you have a very tight finger grip... :-)

I have heard that Carmine Caruso, a great trumpet teacher, was so into
having players play with as little pressure against the lips as possible
that he hung a trumpet from the ceiling on strings and had the student walk
up to the horn and play w/o touching it...A bit more dramatic than dropping
a finger onto one's palm, but the lesson is the same...
I have a friend who plays sax with such a tight bite that he literally bites
through the mouthpiece AND the protective pads he puts on it.. There is no
need for that to get a good sound on a horn...
Relaxation is the key to almost everything we do...
I think that the use of drugs and alcohol is an attempt to reach a state of
relaxation while playing.
Maybe, teachers should give the kids a shot of vodka before the session...
j/k of course..:-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I love when a "teacher" comes along thinking that he/she is going to
> revolutionize guitar instruction and throws away everything that has
> been done previously in the area which many, many experts have thrived
> and worked through.

I haven't seen the site, and so cannot comment. But this statement is
true and poignant. So many claim to have reinvented the wheel, it seems,
while what they really want to do is sell their system, book, or
whatever. This is surprising, why?

On your comments regarding reading, new lows are attained every day, it
seems. I recently had to download a tune in TAB because it wasn't
available at all in notation. The TAB sheet had instructions on how to
read TAB "for those who aren't studying", the implication being that the
proper study of guitar employs the use of TAB, I suppose.


This is nothing new, though. My guess has always been that around 5% of
all who pick up the guitar actually become real students of it. I don't
think that's changed all that much. As a teacher, I'm always looking for
that 5%, leaving the rest to someone who wants them (and there are lots
who want them), and I do pretty good.

best,
Bobby

"This Kumbaya crap is useless and wrong."

Er, OK then, how do you REALLY feel???  Actually, I think
there's a bit of value in examining some of the physical aspects
of playing the guitar, especially for beginners.  Learning to  play
guitar is a lot like learning to ride a bike, there are mental,
visual, and physical/kinetic aspects that need to coalesce in
order to make things work.  I spend a lot of time trying to get
my beginning students to develop a tension-free playing
posture, good hand position, etc, because as I tell them,
"practice makes permanent", and if you practice the wrong thing
a lot, you can get really good at it.

Those of us who play folk/jazz/rock/pop/blues/etc, kind of get a
"pass", because we can fudge quite a bit of things when it comes
to technique; classical/flamenco/Brazilian players don't have the
same "luxury", so they work really hard at developing good chops,
and it shows not just visually, but when it comes time to play as
well.

There are guitar educators out there who have spent a lot of time
examining the physical aspects of guitar playing, and I think it's
worth exploring/examining their efforts, even if it's just for the  sake
of information.  Dennis Sandole (whose pupils included Pat  Martino)
had a whole theory (and exercises) about the relationships bet'n
fingers, etc.  Another great book is "Pumping Nylon"; it's full  of
really good (and challenging) exercises, and Mauro Giuliani's 120
right-hand exercises is extremely useful as well.

Not all of the stuff out there is "useless and wrong", but where it  all
falls flat on its face is when the live, in the room teacher is taken  out
of the equation.  If this kind of material is utilized in an  individual
lesson (or even in a classroom) situation, then its value increases,
because of the interactive component.  At least, that's my .02.

BTW, I totally agree w/ you on the need to develop music reading
ability...

Cheers,
JV

Juan Vega




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

funkifized34 wrote:

> This Kumbaya crap is useless and wrong. Spending
> excess time on studying how your finger touches
> the string is time far better spent on actually
> playing the damned instrument.

Interesting. So let me make sure I understand what you're saying: is it your
considered position that the professor who teaches classical guitar at SMU
here in Dallas is promoting "useless and wrong" exercises when he teaches a
very similar exercise?

I've had a number of schooled guitarists recommend this same kind of
exercise to me over the past 35 years, and IT REALLY HELPS. Far from being
"kumbaya crap," it helps promote physical and emotional self-awareness, both
of which are important elements in any kind of musical expression, whether
you are reading music or not.

Jay

Not all students are the same. Spending time studying how your finger
touches the string is really more important for many students and
players than you claim. George Van Eps addresses this very concept,
as do many other masters. This isn't anything new.


On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:40 AM, funkifized34 wrote:

>
>
> --- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "cornishprat" <kevinrhart@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > Thought I'd share this article with you, I think It will
> transform your playing if carried out as described. Hope it works
> as well for you as it did for me.
> > http://www.guitarprinciples.com/GettingBetter/secret_of_speed.html
> > Kevin
> >
>
> This Kumbaya crap is useless and wrong. Spending excess time on
> studying how your finger touches the string is time far better
> spent on actually playing the damned instrument.
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "cornishprat" <kevinrhart@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Thought I'd share this article with you, I think It will transform your
playing  if carried out as described.  Hope it works as well for you as it did
for me.
> http://www.guitarprinciples.com/GettingBetter/secret_of_speed.html
> Kevin
>


This Kumbaya crap is useless and wrong. Spending excess time on studying how
your finger touches the string is time far better spent on actually playing the
damned instrument. Also, I and most educated music teachers have had much
success with teaching beginning guitarists from day one to read music. This
guitarprinciples.com site is filled with one-sided, misinformed teaching methods
that wastes the serious student's time. If I spent anywhere near as much time as
the author suggests on having the student "let the index finger drop from it's
own weight into the palm of your right hand" and study how the finger touches
the string, I'd be looking for a different job. As far as reading music goes,
the first problem with this site is the assumption that the very beginner
guitarist is a child. I have lots of beginners who are adults. Additionally,
this crap about having to teach the child beginner fractions is way out of line.
My experience, as I have also witnessed in most other teachers, is that the
young child is already in a state of mind to learn new things, and are not that
far away from learning that characters on the page mean different things. Young
children are the perfect candidates for teaching music reading to, hence all the
beginning guitar methods.

I love when a "teacher" comes along thinking that he/she is going to
revolutionize guitar instruction and throws away everything that has been done
previously in the area which many, many experts have thrived and worked through.
I've got a 6-year-old guitar student that can sightread better than many
professional players. Good thing I didn't throw away the music-reading ideas
with her and try to just teach her to play by ear.

Next: let's throw away the system of music notation we've been using for
hundreds of years and start using colors, numbers, or some such thing. Put on
your tinfoil hats, we're going to start learning guitar the "modern" way...

Sheesh.

Ex-Radio 2 presenter Laycock dies
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8351614.stm

Former BBC Radio 2 presenter Malcolm Laycock died on Sunday, his agent says.

Mr Laycock left Sunday Night at 10 - a programme dedicated to music of the 1930s
and 40s - in the summer after spending 14 years as its presenter.

His decision - due in part to disagreements with the station - prompted outrage
among his listeners.

Bob Shennan, controller of Radio 2 and 6 Music, said Mr Laycock's former
colleagues were "shocked and saddened" to hear of his death.

"Malcolm was a much-loved and highly respected broadcaster, renowned for his
skill as a presenter and producer, and his passion for music and radio," he
said.

Mr Laycock's radio career spanned four decades, during which he worked on Radio
2, BBC London and the BBC World Service as well as helping to set up London's
Jazz FM.

He was awarded a Sony Radio Award for his programme Billie Holiday In Her Own
Words.

He produced many programmes for Radio 2 including Voices and Back Numbers, and
documentaries on Nat King Cole, Josh White and Harlem's Savoy Ballroom.

Mr Laycock was also known internationally for his broadcasts for BBC World
Service.

These included six years presenting the weekly Jazz For The Asking programme,
and for his many series of Kings Of Swing and The Big Band Singers, and for the
documentary Glenn Miller - The Legacy.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Ex-Radio 2 DJ Malcolm Laycock dies
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/10/radio-2-dj-malcolm-laycock

Laycock also worked for BBC London and the World Service and helped to set up
the original Jazz FM

Former BBC Radio 2 DJ Malcolm Laycock, who left the station earlier this year,
has died.

Laycock died on Sunday, his agent told BBC News. In a broadcasting career
spanning more than four decades, Laycock also worked for BBC London, the BBC
World Service, and helped set up the original Jazz FM in London, of which he was
later controller.

He presented dance and big band show Sunday Night at 10 for 14 years on Radio 2.
He left the station this summer following a contractual dispute and a series of
disagreements over the format of the show.

Laycock claimed Radio 2's listeners were "up in arms about Radio 2 and its
policy towards the older age group".

The Radio 2 controller, Bob Shennan, said Laycock's former colleagues were
"shocked and saddened" to hear of his death.

"Malcolm was a much-loved and highly respected broadcaster, renowned for his
skill as a presenter and producer, and his passion for music and radio," added
Shennan.

Laycock won a Sony radio award for his Radio 2 programme Billie Holiday In Her
Own Words and presented series for the station including As Time Goes By,
Traditionally British, and documentaries on Edward Heath, Joe Loss and Gilbert
Becaud. He also produced many programmes and documentaries for Radio 2.

His World Service credits included Jazz For the Asking, Kings of Swing, The Big
Band Singers and documentary Glenn Miller - the Legacy.

--- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "will_halligan" <will@...> wrote:
>
> That is one of the exam tests in grade 7 bass.
>
> Pretty good too,

Will

What exam is that? Can you give some more details.

Mark

Practicing arpeggios enables one to practice hearing chord tones melodically. To
that end one essential part of the practice is singing the arpeggios. It is
important to sing them with AND without the instrument, at first in root
position, then in inversions. The ear takes time to develop, you should start
with triad arpeggios, and once you can hear them clearly and can sing them, move
onto 7th arpeggios etc. Sadly too many students dive straight into 7th arpeggios
when the can't even hear basic triad arpeggios. The mechanics of playing them is
important, but hearing them is essential, again sadly in today's "rush to the
finish line mentality" students focus on the mechanical, the visual rather than
the auditory. In the end unless they are heard and are in your ears they are not
very useful, so mechanically executing all the patterns in the world will not
result in non-mechanical improvisation.

--
Alisdair MacRae Birch
Guitarist/Bassist/Educator/Arranger
http://www.alisdair.com

--- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "cornishprat" <kevinrhart@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Thought I'd share this article with you, I think It will transform your
playing  if carried out as described.  Hope it works as well for you as it did
for me.
> http://www.guitarprinciples.com/GettingBetter/secret_of_speed.html

A good teacher is the best option, but I know most guitarist are jonesing to
spend their money on yet another book/course so, check
out an old thread:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/jazz_guitar/message/72741

--- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Woods" <david_woods@...> wrote:
>
> All of this sounds very comprehensive, and thorough, but I still say work
> all of this stuff out around a tune.

Very true. Most of the building blocks of music (scales, arpeggios, chord
prpogressions) never made too much sense to me before I started to hear them in
the context of a tune. It's much easier to relate to them that way and also,
it's the pathway to feeling them as Dave mentioned.

It just takes work, being around these things, marinating oneself in them. Like
learning a foreign language: none of the words initially made you feel in any
particular way (except frutrated when you couldn't recall a word when you needed
it). It takes years and years of using the language to develop that emotional
connection with the components of that language. But it's worth it.

This is why I think that paedagogically always using tunes to drive any point
across is the only way to go. You can say something like "the dominant on the II
degree tends to be a #11 or b5" and it means little until you play tunes like
Take The A Train or Desafinado.


Best wishes,

Petri

www.petrikrzywacki.com

I have a motorhome and when I travel, I take along a guitar.  I use the Roland
battery powered amp.
I think that it has great tone for its size and I have always liked the Roland
Chorus effect.

David Latham

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,
Thought I'd share this article with you, I think It will transform your playing 
if carried out as described.  Hope it works as well for you as it did for me.
http://www.guitarprinciples.com/GettingBetter/secret_of_speed.html
Kevin

All of this sounds very comprehensive, and thorough, but I still say work
all of this stuff out around a tune.  You should not only know the melody,
you should be able to hear the Key and chord changes through the notes of
the melody.  Once you can do this, begin working gradually away from the
melody into the key and chord changes, always keeping the melody in mind.
This is the arena that we all apply all this stuff to.  This is the
practical focusing of it.

If something musical, expressive, and creative is going to happen, you will
never just play the straight arpeggio.  It will be a melodic idea that
incorporates the arpeggio.  I say once you have an arpeggio under your
hands, "PLAY" with it, work out melodic ideas within it for your expressive
vocabulary, and bit by bit try to use them in the tune.  It's necessary to
always keep an overview of the entire process in mind, and a tune is what
gives that to you.



Dave Woods



   _____


--- In jazz_guitar@ <mailto:jazz_guitar%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
Greg Macmillan <gregmac@...> wrote:
>
> Then play them through the cycle of 4ths, then starting at the top and
> going down, then starting on the 3rd of each chord, then the 5th, then
> 7th, then any other extension, then trying joining the 3rd of each to
> the 7th of the next going through the cycle of fourths. Use all the
> different chord types, but most important learn tunes and melodies by
> ear and memory. Work on voice leading and melody more than chord scale
> relationships. Use chromatic voice leading and embellishment, delayed
> resolution etc. Learn genre specific applications of any of the above.
> Just my 2c
>
> cheers Greg
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I bought one to do my classical gigs with, since then
I have used it on a few jazz gigs with a singer and
bassist - the singer went through the Roland as
well as me.

A lot of research seems to have gone into speaker
design in recent years. This amp, like the Bose L1
seems to spread the sound and sounds louder than it looks.

For a cafe or church gig it is excellent - obviously
if you are having to compete with "machine gun" type
drummer or the type of player who brings a Marshall 200w
stack to a small club then you could have problems.

A very nice amp with reverb and chorus built in.

Cheers

Will

>
> Has anyone tried this battery powered amp?  The concept appeals to me and the
weight and size enhance it somewhat.  I tried out a small version in a shop and
was impressed with the tone:  acceptable.
>  
> RonV
> CT/USA

That is one of the exam tests in grade 7 bass.

Pretty good too,

Cheers

Will

--- In jazz_guitar@yahoogroups.com, Greg Macmillan <gregmac@...> wrote:
>
> Then play them through the cycle of 4ths, then starting at the top and
> going down, then starting on the 3rd of each chord, then the 5th, then
> 7th, then any other extension, then trying joining the 3rd of each to
> the 7th of the next going through the cycle of fourths. Use all the
> different chord types, but most important learn tunes and melodies by
> ear and memory. Work on voice leading and melody more than chord scale
> relationships. Use chromatic voice leading and embellishment, delayed
> resolution etc. Learn genre specific applications of any of the above.
> Just my 2c
>
> cheers Greg
>

Hey John:

  Your link is wrong. It is www.iometics.net/gigbaby. It is actually a good
  buy.

  Luism

Has anyone tried this battery powered amp?  The concept appeals to me and the
weight and size enhance it somewhat.  I tried out a small version in a shop and
was impressed with the tone:  acceptable.
 
RonV
CT/USA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I take a picture of the back, maybe you can help me, but I have no idea what
the tubes do.  I'm very low tech.  I just turn on my amp and plug straight into
it without any effects.  It's a very old amp.