Very interesting about the newest recordings made by Brian .
Thanks
Tran Quang Hai

TRAN QUANG HAI

12 RUE GUTENBERG

94450 LIMEIL BREVANNES- FRANCE

Tel & Fax : (33-1) 4569 5577

Email: tranquanghai2001@...

Websites: http://tranquanghai.info

Blog: http://tranquanghai.multiply.com

--- On Mon, 21/9/09, imnotelmo <imnotelmo@...> wrote:

From: imnotelmo <imnotelmo@...>
Subject: [KHOOMEI] New Stuff
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 21 September, 2009, 10:57 PM






 





                   Uploaded some new sound files over at



http://www.uskhoome izhi.org/ khoomei/



grover































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Uploaded some new sound files over at

http://www.uskhoomeizhi.org/khoomei/

grover

Thanks Stacey
From what I understand ,you are saying that the string is bound together at the
end where it fits into the tuner.The tuners I have seen in pictures look like
bass tuners so I guess the string fits into a slot in the end of the tuner
shaft. Is this correct?
I had a look at the archived messages and read some good stuff about string
making but nothing about braiding ,binding or melting the ends.Does anyone know
where there is some info about this sort of thing?

Thanks a lot.
Greg
New Zealand



--- In khoomei@yahoogroups.com, Stacey Borsody <hjernespiser@...> wrote:
>
> Yes.  Mine has mechanical tuners and most "workhorse" igils I've seen have
them.  There's a trick with making strings because the individual threads have
to be secured together at the ends.  The traditional way is to braid the ends
together.  Brian has more detailed information on igil string making.  If I
recall, a simple match to nylon works too.

Yes.  Mine has mechanical tuners and most "workhorse" igils I've seen have them.
There's a trick with making strings because the individual threads have to be
secured together at the ends.  The traditional way is to braid the ends
together.  Brian has more detailed information on igil string making.  If I
recall, a simple match to nylon works too.




________________________________
From: nzgaita <nzgaita@...>
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:49:55 PM
Subject: [KHOOMEI] Re: Igil String length?


Thank you all for the messurements. Just what I needed.
Does anyone have an Igil that uses mechanical tuners?I have noticed a few
pictures of them on the net and I was wondering how good they were with the
multi strand strings?

Thanks
Greg

> 59cm on my Aldar igil, though it's a little smaller than a lot I've
> seen.  71cm on another one I have that was made by Seth in the US, so
> those kinds of variations are pretty common in the other ones I've seen.
>
> -- John
>
> At 01:26 PM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi Greg. Well, the Igil that I have was made by Aldar Tamdyn of
> >Chirgilchin. It's one of his early Igils. It's length from bridge to
> >nut is 63cm. Good luck!
> >E(:+O<- (Uger-ool)
> >
> >
> >--- In khoomei@yahoogroups .com, "nzgaita" <nzgaita@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Would someone be able to tell me what Igil string length from
> > bridge to nut is?I realise that it probably varies so a round about
> > number is fine.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Greg
> > > New Zealand
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------- --------- --------- -------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you all for the messurements.Just what I needed.
Does anyone have an Igil that uses mechanical tuners?I have noticed a few
pictures of them on the net and I was wondering how good they were with the
multi strand strings?

Thanks
Greg


> 59cm on my Aldar igil, though it's a little smaller than a lot I've
> seen.  71cm on another one I have that was made by Seth in the US, so
> those kinds of variations are pretty common in the other ones I've seen.
>
> -- John
>
> At 01:26 PM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi Greg. Well, the Igil that I have was made by Aldar Tamdyn of
> >Chirgilchin. It's one of his early Igils. It's length from bridge to
> >nut is 63cm. Good luck!
> >E(:+O<- (Uger-ool)
> >
> >
> >--- In khoomei@yahoogroups.com, "nzgaita" <nzgaita@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > > Would someone be able to tell me what Igil string length from
> > bridge to nut is?I realise that it probably varies so a round about
> > number is fine.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Greg
> > > New Zealand
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

59cm on my Aldar igil, though it's a little smaller than a lot I've
seen.  71cm on another one I have that was made by Seth in the US, so
those kinds of variations are pretty common in the other ones I've seen.

-- John

At 01:26 PM 7/20/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Greg. Well, the Igil that I have was made by Aldar Tamdyn of
>Chirgilchin. It's one of his early Igils. It's length from bridge to
>nut is 63cm. Good luck!
>E(:+O<- (Uger-ool)
>
>
>--- In khoomei@yahoogroups.com, "nzgaita" <nzgaita@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > Would someone be able to tell me what Igil string length from
> bridge to nut is?I realise that it probably varies so a round about
> number is fine.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Greg
> > New Zealand
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hi Greg. Well, the Igil that I have was made by Aldar Tamdyn of Chirgilchin.
It's one of his early Igils. It's length from bridge to nut is 63cm. Good luck!
E(:+O<- (Uger-ool)


--- In khoomei@yahoogroups.com, "nzgaita" <nzgaita@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> Would someone be able to tell me what Igil string length from bridge to nut
is?I realise that it probably varies so a round about number is fine.
>
> Thanks
> Greg
> New Zealand
>

Hi
Would someone be able to tell me what Igil string length from bridge to nut is?I
realise that it probably varies so a round about number is fine.

Thanks
Greg
New Zealand

Hello everyone! I hope make my workshop!
Chetirdim,
E(:+O<-

An Introduction to Khoomei
The Ancient Art of Tuvan Throat Singing
with Enrique Ugalde

Wednesday, June 10th
537 SE Ash St.#41
Portland, OR
$50 for 4 hours of instruction. Limit of 13 people.
Prior musical experience preferred, but not necessary.

This workshop will offer:
~An introduction to Tuvan Culture
~Instruction in the three main Tuvan throat singing styles Khoomei,
Sygyt and Kargyraa, their history and application to traditional folk
songs
~Unconventional but effective ways to utilize and activate your
instrument properly
~4 hours of group and one on one instruction

Enrique Ugalde is a world renowned throat singer who has studied with
Tuva's most decorated throat singers. Including: Chirgilchin,
Aldan-ool Sivek and Vladimir Ouidupaa. He has recently returned from
Tuva where he placed 3rd in the International Khoomei Symposium, the
only recognized ranking standard of throat singers in the World, as
well as the recipient of "Best Foreign Performance" at the
Ustuu-Khuree World Music Festival in Chadanaa Tuva.
TO REGISTER CONTACT SORIAH@...

Congratulations ! Have a good concert and workshop .
Tran Quang Hai
France
http://tranquanghaisworld.blogspot.com

TRAN QUANG HAI

12 RUE GUTENBERG

94450 LIMEIL BREVANNES- FRANCE

Tel & Fax : (33-1) 4569 5577

Email: tranquanghai2001@...

Websites: http://tranquanghai.info

Blog: http://tranquanghai.multiply.com

--- On Wed, 13/5/09, soriah23 <soriah23@...> wrote:

From: soriah23 <soriah23@...>
Subject: [KHOOMEI] Throat Singing workshop with ENRIQUE UGALDE (UGER KHAN) in
Seattle 5-23!!
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 13 May, 2009, 10:50 PM

















       Hello everyone! I'll be in Seattle next weekend to perform at the Folk
life Festival on Friday the 22nd  followed by a workshop on Saturday at the
address below... Space is limited, so if you are interested please reserve your
space by sending a check made out to Enrique Ugalde to the address below. Please
forward to anyone you feel might be interested.

SHUDE!!



Vanessa Skantze

2511A E. Yesler Way

Seattle, WA 98122



An Introduction to Khoomei

the Ancient Art of Tuvan Throat Singing

with Enrique Ugalde

May 23rd

2-6PM

$50



-An introduction to Tuvan Culture

-Instruction in the three main Tuvan throat singing styles Khoomei,

Sygyt and Kargyraa, their history and their application to traditional

folk songs

-Unconventional but effective ways to utilize your instrument properly

-Traditional lyrics for Tuvan songs

-Group and one on one instruction



Space is limited

Prior musical experience preferred

(but not essential)



Enrique Ugalde is the renowned ritualist/ throat singer/ recording

artist SORIAH and has extensive studies with Tuva's most celebrated

Throat Singers including Monguun-ool Ondar, Igor Koshkendei, Aldar Tamdyn,
Aldan-ool Sevek, Vladimir Ouidupaa, Zhenya Oluun, Nachyn Choodu and more. He
recently placed 3rd in the 2008 International

Khoomei Symposium in Kyzyl, Tuva and is well versed in a variety of

Tuvan throat singing techniques, Tuvan culture and tradition.



For more information and to REGISTER: contact soriah@soriah. net































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone! I'll be in Seattle next weekend to perform at the Folk life
Festival on Friday the 22nd  followed by a workshop on Saturday at the address
below... Space is limited, so if you are interested please reserve your space by
sending a check made out to Enrique Ugalde to the address below. Please forward
to anyone you feel might be interested.
SHUDE!!

Vanessa Skantze
2511A E. Yesler Way
Seattle, WA 98122

An Introduction to Khoomei
the Ancient Art of Tuvan Throat Singing
with Enrique Ugalde
May 23rd
2-6PM
$50

-An introduction to Tuvan Culture
-Instruction in the three main Tuvan throat singing styles Khoomei,
Sygyt and Kargyraa, their history and their application to traditional
folk songs
-Unconventional but effective ways to utilize your instrument properly
-Traditional lyrics for Tuvan songs
-Group and one on one instruction


Space is limited
Prior musical experience preferred
(but not essential)

Enrique Ugalde is the renowned ritualist/ throat singer/ recording
artist SORIAH and has extensive studies with Tuva's most celebrated
Throat Singers including Monguun-ool Ondar, Igor Koshkendei, Aldar Tamdyn,
Aldan-ool Sevek, Vladimir Ouidupaa, Zhenya Oluun, Nachyn Choodu and more. He
recently placed 3rd in the 2008 International
Khoomei Symposium in Kyzyl, Tuva and is well versed in a variety of
Tuvan throat singing techniques, Tuvan culture and tradition.

  For more information and to REGISTER: contact soriah@...

Iā€™m fine.
Thanks for asking.
and How are you?

Iā€™m still doing Khoomei and itā€™s coming along pretty well.
Kargyraa is improving and no more sore throat. Maybe a slight tickle here and
there from trying different ranges and possibly singing too long. When that
happens I rest for awhile until my throat is refreshed for the next day. I also
found some ā€˜Celestial Seasoningsā€™ Throat Soothers tea which Iā€™m starting
to try out.
http://www.celestialseasonings.com/products/detail.html/wellness-teas/throat-soo\
thers

Take care,

Mark Magyar






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everybody,
I don't know if all of you know the existence of a website dealing with
overtones ?tt It is called "http://overtone-network.org "
If not, I 'd like to send you my blog on this site
http://www.overtone-network.org/profile/TRANQUANGHAI
Just drop in .
Best,
Tran Quang Hai


TRAN QUANG HAI

12 RUE GUTENBERG

94450 LIMEIL BREVANNES- FRANCE

Tel & Fax : (33-1) 4569 5577

Email: tranquanghai2001@...

Websites: http://tranquanghai.info

Blog: http://tranquanghai.multiply.com

--- On Fri, 17/4/09, Markus Magyar <bro_markus@...> wrote:

From: Markus Magyar <bro_markus@...>
Subject: [KHOOMEI] a Tibet song
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 17 April, 2009, 7:43 PM

















       a Tibet song



Not that long ago I shared a song from Pastor Dugermaa of Mongolia.

http://www.worldofw orship.org/ cd/Site/song/ 14.html

I just happened to notice another song from the same site that I overlooked.

Itā€™s a song from Tibet. No khoomei but it could probably be addedā€¦

http://www.worldofw orship.org/ cd/Site/song/ 07.htmlĀ 



Peace and Blessings,

-Mark Magyar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oidupaa sings at a very high pitch,
very constricted, and a fair bit of
nasal quality. you could call it
khovu dumchuktar kargyraa (steppe, nasal).

another feature of Oidupaa is that
he rarely does harmonic overtone
phrases and just uses the kargyraa
voice to sing these sort of bluesy
melody lines.

Igor Koshkendey of Chirgilchin is
a big fan of Oidupaa and usually does
at least one song on each Chirgilchin CD
in an Oidupaa style. Though he mixes
it up with his own chops so its really
a koshkendey/oidupaa hybrid style.

grover

As always,
Thanks for the input.

After listening to "How the Shadow is Clear" a couple a more times I do happen
to hear the slight kargyraa vibrations. I don't think I downloaded a good
quality of the song to be able to hear Oidupaa's voice properly. With Igor's
Solo which I also heard a sample of from the internet I can here more of a
kargyraa vibration. If Oidupaa style is similar to Dumchuktar  I have a slight
more understanding of it as Sean Quirk explains Dumchuktar at the following
link: http://www.busker-kibbutznik.org/khoomei/quirk/overveiw.html

--- On Wed, 4/22/09, John Schucker <gwynn@...> wrote:

From: John Schucker <gwynn@...>
Subject: Re: [KHOOMEI] Oidupaa Kargyraa?
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday,
  April 22, 2009, 7:18 PM

















       I'm not sure how you figure that "How the Shadow is Clear" isn't

kargyraa, unless you heard a different version from the one on his

album.  If you're talking about the album version though, yes it's

kargyraa, very clearly so.  The two main features of Oidupaa's kargyraa

seem to be pitch, it's very high hence the constricted sound, and it's

nasal.  You might almost call it dumchuk kargyraa.  I'm not sure how

it's done, but there you go anyway.




























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not sure how you figure that "How the Shadow is Clear" isn't
kargyraa, unless you heard a different version from the one on his
album.  If you're talking about the album version though, yes it's
kargyraa, very clearly so.  The two main features of Oidupaa's kargyraa
seem to be pitch, it's very high hence the constricted sound, and it's
nasal.  You might almost call it dumchuk kargyraa.  I'm not sure how
it's done, but there you go anyway.

Oidupaa Kargyraa?

Iā€™ve been looking online for that of the Oidupaa style of singing and how to
approach trying to sing Oidupaa style. The only thing that I came across is the
following video.
The video attempts to explain that of Oidupaa Kargyraa and not just basic
Oidupaa style.
And The Oidupaa Kargyraa thatā€™s being explained on how to do Iā€™m not for
certain if itā€™s being explained correctly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------------------------------------------------- Ā 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oxpTvG95Sw

Notes about video:
Ā An instruction on how to get oiduupaa style kargyraa. This course is not
suited for beginners! It's still a lot of experimenting, but I hope you get an
idea on how to perform this style. Good
  luck!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----------------------------------------------------
Could someone please try to explain to me in somewhat of a simple way exactly
what Oidupaa style of singing is and how itā€™s doneā€¦

Iā€™ve heard the originator Vladimir Oidupaa song ā€œHow the Shadow is Clearā€
which to me isnā€™t Kargyraa. And I heard Igorā€™s solo where he sings in an
Oidupaa Kargyraa style.
I havenā€™t really heard that much of Oidupaa style so Iā€™m not really for sure
what itā€™s suppose to sound like. Is Oidupaa style just Higher register Khoomei
which is more constricted?


Mark MagyarĀ Ā Ā  Ā 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for sharing about Oidupaa.
Iā€™m not that familiar with OidupaaĀ  so I did a word search
And came across a few more videos and a couple of forums about him.

Videos:
clip of Oidupaa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktU8Gvz8Kis
Khoomei doc with Oidupaa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw9hizi5heM&feature=related
Forum:
http://khoomei.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=792

Much Thanks,
-Mark Magyar

--- On Sat, 4/18/09, Sauli HeikkilƤ <saul@...> wrote:

From: Sauli HeikkilƤ <saul@...>
Subject: [KHOOMEI] Re: a Tibet song
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 18, 2009, 9:14 AM













       Talking about christian khoomei... well, I am not religious... . but
Oidupaa is:

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=YzfDqIYq- nQ&feature= related



Met him couple of years ago and he told me that he sings just to praise God.



Sauli



--- In khoomei@yahoogroups .com, Markus Magyar <bro_markus@ ...> wrote:

>

> a Tibet song

>

> Not that long ago I shared a song from Pastor Dugermaa of Mongolia.

> http://www.worldofw orship.org/ cd/Site/song/ 14.html

> I just happened to notice another song from the same site that I overlooked.

> It's a song from Tibet. No khoomei but it could probably be added.

> http://www.worldofw orship.org/ cd/Site/song/ 07.html

>

> Peace and Blessings,

> -Mark Magyar

>





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Talking about christian khoomei... well, I am not religious.... but Oidupaa is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzfDqIYq-nQ&feature=related

Met him couple of years ago and he told me that he sings just to praise God.

Sauli

--- In khoomei@yahoogroups.com, Markus Magyar <bro_markus@...> wrote:
>
> a Tibet song
>
> Not that long ago I shared a song from Pastor Dugermaa of Mongolia.
> http://www.worldofworship.org/cd/Site/song/14.html
> I just happened to notice another song from the same site that I overlooked.
> Itā€™s a song from Tibet. No khoomei but it could probably be addedā€¦
> http://www.worldofworship.org/cd/Site/song/07.htmlĀ 
>
> Peace and Blessings,
> -Mark Magyar
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

a Tibet song

Not that long ago I shared a song from Pastor Dugermaa of Mongolia.
http://www.worldofworship.org/cd/Site/song/14.html
I just happened to notice another song from the same site that I overlooked.
Itā€™s a song from Tibet. No khoomei but it could probably be addedā€¦
http://www.worldofworship.org/cd/Site/song/07.htmlĀ 

Peace and Blessings,
-Mark Magyar






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's how I discovered kargyraa.  Some people can do khoomei first and well but
struggle with kargyraa.  They are khoomei people.  For the kargyraa people it is
opposite.  They just belt out kargyraa yet can't seem to put a finger on
khoomei.  They're kargyraa people.  Eventually with practice a singer can do
both with ease, but that takes quite awhile.




________________________________
From: Markus Magyar <bro_markus@...>
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 9:55:01 PM
Subject: [KHOOMEI] Re: the Kargyraa sound//Kargyraa sore throat...


Let me try to clear things up a little better with this,
One day I was doing some khoomei and I was trying to do some lower notes when
all of a sudden a kargyraa sound came out. I really wasn't attempting to do
kargyraa but a kargyraa sound came out. In the past I was trying all of these
different ways to make kargyraa sound but it wasn't happening right. So when
making the kargyraa sound I was figuring out how I did it and yes it does come
from making a huh sound and feeling it in your chest. Still takes me a little
while to warm up before attempting to do kargyraa and starting with a fry with
mouth closed usually works for me. Now I'm just trying to hold a kargyraa note
longer and then add harmonics. This comes with more practice.
Just glad that I can make that kargyraa sound for now.

To those that have posted,
Thanks for the help.

Mark Magyar


--- On Sun, 4/5/09, John Schucker <gwynn@...> wrote:

From: John Schucker <gwynn@...>
Subject: Re: [KHOOMEI] Kargyraa sore throat...
To: khoomei@yahoogroups .com
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 11:42 PM

I still get a sore throat sometimes if I'm working on higher pitched

kargyraa, but it's really important, because there are a lot of ways to

get a kargyraa kind of sound actually, to get that good chesty rumble.

Basically what you want to do is sort of go "huh" from your diaphragm

and you should get that sort of rattly sound from just breathing out.

That's how I know I'm engaging the right stuff when I haven't practiced

for a while.  Steve's lessons as always are invaluable here.  With

things like khoomei and flute and such, people keep telling you to

breathe from the diaphragm because it's amazingly easy to stop doing it

and not realize it, or to never start doing it and think you have been

all along.  So breathing is really a big key.

Markus Magyar wrote:

> Kargyraa

> It took me a while get a decent enough grrr lion sound in order to be able to
do kargyraa consistently.

> Iā€™ve been at kargyraa for about maybe 5 days and it takes me awhile to warm
up to be able to do kargyraa .

> Iā€™m going to try to not press myself so hard in trying to accomplish
kargyraa. ā€œAll good things in moderation.ā€ My throat gets slightly sore
sometimes after practicing  but Iā€™m thinking that itā€™s normal for this to
happen when beginning kargyraa.

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> The following from Steve Sklar: http://khoomei. com/forum/ viewtopic.
php?f=1&t= 1060#p6494

> Why do most beginners feel something "not good" in the throat when learning
kargyraa? Here's my theory in a sort of cartoon-y fashion (I welcome any input
from all our neuro-physiologist members):

>

> Somewhere in the brain, there is a body-mapping center. It is in charge of
analyzing incoming signals from various parts of the body, so that we know our
left big toe from our right earlobe, etc. Now, when we begin singing kargyraa,
we start sending a signal from the larynx in the region of the ventricular
folds. Up there in the mapping mission control room, the little neuron-folks
notice this incoming signal. Hmmm... a red light is flashing...the buzzer is
blaring... it's labeled "Sector 252 b." The head neuron there asks, "anyone know
what sector 252 b is? We're not use to receiving data from there. No response
from the neuro-underlings. So the boss directs the underlings to fetch the
manual...

>

> The neuro-underling responsible for the throat looks it up and reports that
Sector 252 b is something called "the venrtricular folds." Hmmm... anyone know
what that could mean? There's no consensus, being a new phenomenon. "Well," says
the chief, "what else does it say?"

>

> "It says that an incoming signal may indicate some sort of debris has entered
the larynx."

>

> "Well, we don't want anything getting into the lungs, so send the cough
command."

>

> "Right away, boss!" And we cough.

>

> "Scan indicates all clear, boss. But we're still getting signal."

>

> "Hmmm," says the neuron-in-charge, there's probably no major threat, but we'd
better enter something into the log. What should we classify it as?"

>

> "I think it's a tickle, cheif" says one worker. "Maybe a slight pain or
irritation" says another. "Or a tickle?" suggests another, and so on...

>

> "Well," replies the boss, "let's just keep an eye on it and see what
develops."

>

> So, we continue to practice our kargyraa, all the while the good folks at body
mapping central monitoring, noting a scratchiness here and a tickle there.

>

> After a few days, the boss tires of the signal, orders the red flashing light
and the buzzer disconnected, and their attention returns to their old routines,
the ventricular folds largely forgotten (until you stop practicing for an
extended period, then begin anewā€¦

>

> Hope this helps,

> Steve Sklar

>----------- --------- ----

> Giving Thanks,

> Mark Magyar

>






   _,_._,___




















.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Let me try to clear things up a little better with this,
One day I was doing some khoomei and I was trying to do some lower notes when
all of a sudden a kargyraa sound came out. I really wasn't attempting to do
kargyraa but a kargyraa sound came out. In the past I was trying all of these
different ways to make kargyraa sound but it wasn't happening right. So when
making the kargyraa sound I was figuring out how I did it and yes it does come
from making a huh sound and feeling it in your chest. Still takes me a little
while to warm up before attempting to do kargyraa and starting with a fry with
mouth closed usually works for me. Now I'm just trying to hold a kargyraa note
longer and then add harmonics. This comes with more practice.
Just glad that I can make that kargyraa sound for now.

To those that have posted,
Thanks for the help.

Mark Magyar
Ā Ā 

--- On Sun, 4/5/09, John Schucker <gwynn@...> wrote:

From: John Schucker <gwynn@...>
Subject: Re: [KHOOMEI] Kargyraa sore throat...
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, April 5, 2009, 11:42 PM












             I still get a sore throat sometimes if I'm working on higher pitched

kargyraa, but it's really important, because there are a lot of ways to

get a kargyraa kind of sound actually, to get that good chesty rumble.

Basically what you want to do is sort of go "huh" from your diaphragm

and you should get that sort of rattly sound from just breathing out.

That's how I know I'm engaging the right stuff when I haven't practiced

for a while.  Steve's lessons as always are invaluable here.  With

things like khoomei and flute and such, people keep telling you to

breathe from the diaphragm because it's amazingly easy to stop doing it

and not realize it, or to never start doing it and think you have been

all along.  So breathing is really a big key.



Markus Magyar wrote:

> Kargyraa

> It took me a while get a decent enough grrr lion sound in order to be able to
do kargyraa consistently.

> Iā€™ve been at kargyraa for about maybe 5 days and it takes me awhile to warm
up to be able to do kargyraa .

> Iā€™m going to try to not press myself so hard in trying to accomplish
kargyraa. ā€œAll good things in moderation.ā€ My throat gets slightly sore
sometimes after practicing  but Iā€™m thinking that itā€™s normal for this to
happen when beginning kargyraa.

> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

> The following from Steve Sklar: http://khoomei. com/forum/ viewtopic.
php?f=1&t= 1060#p6494

> Why do most beginners feel something "not good" in the throat when learning
kargyraa? Here's my theory in a sort of cartoon-y fashion (I welcome any input
from all our neuro-physiologist members):

>

> Somewhere in the brain, there is a body-mapping center. It is in charge of
analyzing incoming signals from various parts of the body, so that we know our
left big toe from our right earlobe, etc. Now, when we begin singing kargyraa,
we start sending a signal from the larynx in the region of the ventricular
folds. Up there in the mapping mission control room, the little neuron-folks
notice this incoming signal. Hmmm... a red light is flashing...the buzzer is
blaring... it's labeled "Sector 252 b." The head neuron there asks, "anyone know
what sector 252 b is? We're not use to receiving data from there. No response
from the neuro-underlings. So the boss directs the underlings to fetch the
manual...

>

> The neuro-underling responsible for the throat looks it up and reports that
Sector 252 b is something called "the venrtricular folds." Hmmm... anyone know
what that could mean? There's no consensus, being a new phenomenon. "Well," says
the chief, "what else does it say?"

>

> "It says that an incoming signal may indicate some sort of debris has entered
the larynx."

>

> "Well, we don't want anything getting into the lungs, so send the cough
command."

>

> "Right away, boss!" And we cough.

>

> "Scan indicates all clear, boss. But we're still getting signal."

>

> "Hmmm," says the neuron-in-charge, there's probably no major threat, but we'd
better enter something into the log. What should we classify it as?"

>

> "I think it's a tickle, cheif" says one worker. "Maybe a slight pain or
irritation" says another. "Or a tickle?" suggests another, and so on...

>

> "Well," replies the boss, "let's just keep an eye on it and see what
develops."

>

> So, we continue to practice our kargyraa, all the while the good folks at body
mapping central monitoring, noting a scratchiness here and a tickle there.

>

> After a few days, the boss tires of the signal, orders the red flashing light
and the buzzer disconnected, and their attention returns to their old routines,
the ventricular folds largely forgotten (until you stop practicing for an
extended period, then begin anewā€¦

>

> Hope this helps,

> Steve Sklar

>------------------------

> Giving Thanks,

> Mark Magyar

>



















                   Ā Ā 



		 Ā  _,_._,___































	   .






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark,

any of the Tuvan styles done correctly will
NOT give you a sore throat or be painful.
However, when learning it is very likely
to have things not quite right, so there
my be some discomfort. As your technique
improves any discomfort should go away.
as you said, just pace your self and don't
over do it. Same as any other kind of
physical training, if you push your self
to hard or train in a reckless manner,
you will get injured. train smart and you
will do fine.

As for prolonged medical issues; i don't think
any data or experience supports it. you don't
see higher incidences of throat disease among
throat singers. and any throat disease among
throat singers can be linked to other sources
(smoking etc). That said, if some one has a
preexisting throat condition then some care
should be taken when learning an unusual singing
technique.

you may find a mint & hibiscus tea blend to
be helpful. warm before you sing, iced (but not
too cold) afterward.

hope that all helps.

grover

I still get a sore throat sometimes if I'm working on higher pitched
kargyraa, but it's really important, because there are a lot of ways to
get a kargyraa kind of sound actually, to get that good chesty rumble.
Basically what you want to do is sort of go "huh" from your diaphragm
and you should get that sort of rattly sound from just breathing out.
That's how I know I'm engaging the right stuff when I haven't practiced
for a while.  Steve's lessons as always are invaluable here.  With
things like khoomei and flute and such, people keep telling you to
breathe from the diaphragm because it's amazingly easy to stop doing it
and not realize it, or to never start doing it and think you have been
all along.  So breathing is really a big key.

Markus Magyar wrote:
> Kargyraa
> It took me a while get a decent enough grrr lion sound in order to be able to
do kargyraa consistently.
> Iā€™ve been at kargyraa for about maybe 5 days and it takes me awhile to warm
up to be able to do kargyraa .
> Iā€™m going to try to not press myself so hard in trying to accomplish
kargyraa. ā€œAll good things in moderation.ā€ My throat gets slightly sore
sometimes after practicing  but Iā€™m thinking that itā€™s normal for this to
happen when beginning kargyraa.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----------------------------------------------
> The following from Steve Sklar:
http://khoomei.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1060#p6494
> Why do most beginners feel something "not good" in the throat when learning
kargyraa? Here's my theory in a sort of cartoon-y fashion (I welcome any input
from all our neuro-physiologist members):
>
> Somewhere in the brain, there is a body-mapping center. It is in charge of
analyzing incoming signals from various parts of the body, so that we know our
left big toe from our right earlobe, etc. Now, when we begin singing kargyraa,
we start sending a signal from the larynx in the region of the ventricular
folds. Up there in the mapping mission control room, the little neuron-folks
notice this incoming signal. Hmmm... a red light is flashing...the buzzer is
blaring... it's labeled "Sector 252 b." The head neuron there asks, "anyone know
what sector 252 b is? We're not use to receiving data from there. No response
from the neuro-underlings. So the boss directs the underlings to fetch the
manual...
>
> The neuro-underling responsible for the throat looks it up and reports that
Sector 252 b is something called "the venrtricular folds." Hmmm... anyone know
what that could mean? There's no consensus, being a new phenomenon. "Well," says
the chief, "what else does it say?"
>
> "It says that an incoming signal may indicate some sort of debris has entered
the larynx."
>
> "Well, we don't want anything getting into the lungs, so send the cough
command."
>
> "Right away, boss!" And we cough.
>
> "Scan indicates all clear, boss. But we're still getting signal."
>
> "Hmmm," says the neuron-in-charge, there's probably no major threat, but we'd
better enter something into the log. What should we classify it as?"
>
> "I think it's a tickle, cheif" says one worker. "Maybe a slight pain or
irritation" says another. "Or a tickle?" suggests another, and so on...
>
> "Well," replies the boss, "let's just keep an eye on it and see what
develops."
>
> So, we continue to practice our kargyraa, all the while the good folks at body
mapping central monitoring, noting a scratchiness here and a tickle there.
>
> After a few days, the boss tires of the signal, orders the red flashing light
and the buzzer disconnected, and their attention returns to their old routines,
the ventricular folds largely forgotten (until you stop practicing for an
extended period, then begin anewā€¦
>
> Hope this helps,
> Steve Sklar
>
> Giving Thanks,
> Mark Magyar
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

THROAT SINGING AND THROAT CANCER

Postby duotone » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:01 am
http://khoomei.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=925&start=15#p5948  

I have been singing harmonic overtones for years most similar to the higher
pitched Tuvan Sygyt style. Recently I have had swelling of the throat in the
same area of tension as in the singing. It feels as though theres a lump in my
throat and it is noticeable while eating. I had some acid reflux also but I
fixed my diet. I had been eating tons of tangerines and had also been drinking a
lot more tea than usual and that comes with hot water which may have exacerbated
things. I have sinced stopped eating these things and stopped the hot liquids,
tea etc. and a beer on some days. But I still have this tight swelling feeling
in my throat. I may have irritated my throat with a combination of things. This
has been going on for a week and half but is getting better. I have seen a
general physician who has prescribed me some acid reflux oriented medicine.

Anyway I've been doing some research on the potential for throat cancer in
throat singers and the only thing I came up with is this Washington Post article
from 1996. It does indeed address the issue:
________________________________________________________________________________\
________________
Tuvan Throat-Singers Perform Feats of Harmonic Acrobatics
The Washington Post, Monday, January 15, 1996, page A5
Science / Ethnomusicology

(relevant excerpt):

Anthony Jahn, an ear, nose, and throat surgeon, and Anat Keidar, a voice
scientist and speech pathologist, together have studied how this is
accomplished. At Vox Humana Voice La, which is affiliated with Roosevelt
Hospital in New York City, they used a fiber optic endoscope, placed through the
nose into the throat, to see what throat-singers actually did.
These researchers found that singers used anatomical structures, such as the
false vocal cords and the aryepiglottic folds, as well as the tongue to create
distinct but interconnected resonating chambers capable of accentuating or
dampening harmonics.
They also found evidence of swelling, blood vessel growth, and even a form of
chronic inflammation that can lead to cancer, in the throats of some singers.
Undaunted by occupational risks, and making the most of Russia's new capitalism,
Huun-Huur-Tu exemplifies the evolution of throat-singing in Tuva.

________________________________________________________________________________\
_____________________________

Now before you get scared read on. I sent a letter to Dr. Jahn, here is his
recent response:

________________________________________________________________________________\
______________________________

Dr. Jahn: I remember examining the Tuvans when they came to our office in 1996.
They achieve this voice in part by using the false vocal folds and other,
normally non-phonatory, parts of the larynx. I don't believe it really puts you
at risk for cancer. Many of the Tuvans also smoke, which is more of a risk. If
you are concerned, though, you should see an otolaryngologist and have your
throat examined. Assuming that you are not throat-singing 6 hours a day, don't
smoke and don't drink to excess, your chances of cancer are really minimal.

________________________________________________________________________________\
________________________________

So this is the bottom line according to Dr. Jahn.
However, I don't think the issue is resolved. This examination is one
examination not a study.

I only practice for 15 minutes a day, 3-4 days a week. True, I do practice
outside in what is now cold weather in New York. But it has been only been
around 30 F lately. My current problem may have nothing to do with the singing.
I have stopped for the moment. I had only practiced for more than 30 minutes at
a time because I get hoarse by that time. But by the same token I question if
some Tuvans actually practice as much as 6 hours a day.maybe that is just his
assumption. Maybe longer practice can be done in less strenuous styles than the
higher pitched Sygyt style. I do think Sygyt it's much more strenous in terms of
tensing up the throat.

I'm trying to get more information on this topic.

duotone
     
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------------------------------------------------
Re: Health Problems / Lower life expectancy?

Postby throatsinger » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:07 am
http://khoomei.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=925&start=15#p5954

I'm not scared.

That said, acid reflux is not good; acid can be inhaled into the larynx with the
expected results. :sick:

I don't read what the Dr. said as implying that Tuvans sing 6 hours/day, rather
than suggesting that would be excessive.

I've been examined, and was present for HHT's exams. No such problems were
reported then (and they smoke).

Can't say much about what you do without samples, so post 'em if you can. And if
you have any persistent or worrisome problems, see your health care provider.
Also, make sure that you aren't straining, which is unnecessary and undesirable.

It is good to practice careful throat massage. Singing can build tension that
should be released.

Hope this helps,
Steve Sklar
http://khoomei.com
http://youtube.com/throatsinger






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kargyraa
It took me a while get a decent enough grrr lion sound in order to be able to do
kargyraa consistently.
Iā€™ve been at kargyraa for about maybe 5 days and it takes me awhile to warm up
to be able to do kargyraa .
Iā€™m going to try to not press myself so hard in trying to accomplish kargyraa.
ā€œAll good things in moderation.ā€ My throat gets slightly sore sometimes
after practicingĀ  but Iā€™m thinking that itā€™s normal for this to happen when
beginning kargyraa.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----------------------------------------------
The following from Steve Sklar:
http://khoomei.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1060#p6494
Why do most beginners feel something "not good" in the throat when learning
kargyraa? Here's my theory in a sort of cartoon-y fashion (I welcome any input
from all our neuro-physiologist members):

Somewhere in the brain, there is a body-mapping center. It is in charge of
analyzing incoming signals from various parts of the body, so that we know our
left big toe from our right earlobe, etc. Now, when we begin singing kargyraa,
we start sending a signal from the larynx in the region of the ventricular
folds. Up there in the mapping mission control room, the little neuron-folks
notice this incoming signal. Hmmm... a red light is flashing...the buzzer is
blaring... it's labeled "Sector 252 b." The head neuron there asks, "anyone know
what sector 252 b is? We're not use to receiving data from there. No response
from the neuro-underlings. So the boss directs the underlings to fetch the
manual...

The neuro-underling responsible for the throat looks it up and reports that
Sector 252 b is something called "the venrtricular folds." Hmmm... anyone know
what that could mean? There's no consensus, being a new phenomenon. "Well," says
the chief, "what else does it say?"

"It says that an incoming signal may indicate some sort of debris has entered
the larynx."

"Well, we don't want anything getting into the lungs, so send the cough
command."

"Right away, boss!" And we cough.

"Scan indicates all clear, boss. But we're still getting signal."

"Hmmm," says the neuron-in-charge, there's probably no major threat, but we'd
better enter something into the log. What should we classify it as?"

"I think it's a tickle, cheif" says one worker. "Maybe a slight pain or
irritation" says another. "Or a tickle?" suggests another, and so on...

"Well," replies the boss, "let's just keep an eye on it and see what develops."

So, we continue to practice our kargyraa, all the while the good folks at body
mapping central monitoring, noting a scratchiness here and a tickle there.

After a few days, the boss tires of the signal, orders the red flashing light
and the buzzer disconnected, and their attention returns to their old routines,
the ventricular folds largely forgotten (until you stop practicing for an
extended period, then begin anewā€¦

Hope this helps,
Steve Sklar

Giving Thanks,
Mark Magyar




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Added two links today.

Mongolian Music (Psalm 23)
Psalm 23 by Pastor Dugermaa.
In somewhat of a Khoomei style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i44j0KL8TGc&feature=channel

Mongolian Music (Psalm 117)
Psalm 117 by Pastor Dugermaa.
Khoomei audio.
 http://www.worldofworship.org/cd/Site/song/14.html


I was wondering if there was music like this available.
I'm going to try to get more information about Pastor Dugermaa all in due time.
There might be this kind of music also in Tuva but I'm not for certain. ?

Peace and Blessings,
Mark Magyar






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No Ainu recordings, but I do have some Koryak recordings that sound
somewhat similar to Inuit stuff, and I rather suspect the Ainu stuff is
akin to those.  It would make sense given the geographic proximity, just
as geography and cultural exchange in the Turko-Mongol areas produces
related forms.  If you ever track some down though let us know, I'd love
to hear them.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out I'm completely and
utterly wrong.

--- In khoomei@yahoogroups.com, Cedric Roux <seddata@...> wrote:
>
>
> ----- "Hai tran" <tranquanghai2001@...> wrote:
>
> > I have uploaded several recordings of Dani's khoomei on my blog:
> >
http://tranquanghai.multiply.com/music/item/164/DANI_TRIBE_Overtone_Singing_Styl\
e_Irian_Jaya_INDONESIA
>
> You probably don't remember but we met once
> in Paris and you gave me an audio CD with
> some samples, some of them being Dani's sound.
> Are these different samples? The one you gave
> me were from french ethnologists or something
> if I remember well (they made a CD of their trip).
> By the way, are you in contact with them?
> Maybe they could tell us if Dani's people sing with or
> without external devices close to their mouth...
>
> Thanks for sharing your knowledge,
> take care,
> Cedric.
>

I've wondered about this (ext. resonators) as well. That's how it sounds on some
tracks (maybe). There are what sounds like resonator, maybe gourds, but it could
be some comb filtering or other audio distortions/artifacts. Better audio or
video (heh) would really help  ;-)

On the first track (36), I'm reminded of the old Xhosa woman recording, which I
suspect is not the karg-type vocalization as it's often described. This is based
on the tone combined with the range of the vocalist.

On some, such as 28, I suspect (and can approximate, using these techniques)
that the vocalist is varying the lip aperture, opening and closing the nasal
port, and moving the tip of the tongue to get the quicker warble. It has that
signature tone, which one doesn't usually hear in central Asian use.

Track 31 is one which sounds more like external (and perhaps variable)
resonation.

Most of the following tracks, 32-8 by my count, obviously have more than one
"performer," so it's more difficult to tell who's doing what.

Track 38 sounds like insect wings buzzing with someone's mouth as a resonator.

Very interesting stuff! Now, who's got some Ainu recordings?

Dear Cedric,
They are the same . I could talk to the collectors but they told me that they
did not remember exactly . Any how , it is good to know that overtone singing is
practised by one population in New Guinea .
Best,
tran quang hai

TRAN QUANG HAI

12 RUE GUTENBERG

94450 LIMEIL BREVANNES- FRANCE

Tel & Fax : (33-1) 4569 5577

Email: tranquanghai2001@...

Websites: http://tranquanghai.info

Blog: http://tranquanghai.multiply.com

--- On Sun, 15/3/09, Cedric Roux <seddata@...> wrote:

From: Cedric Roux <seddata@...>
Subject: Re: [KHOOMEI] Khoomei resources
To: khoomei@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 15 March, 2009, 8:42 AM














----- "Hai tran" <tranquanghai2001@ yahoo.com> wrote:



> I have uploaded several recordings of Dani's khoomei on my blog:

> http://tranquanghai .multiply. com/music/ item/164/ DANI_TRIBE_ Overtone_
Singing_Style_ Irian_Jaya_ INDONESIA



You probably don't remember but we met once

in Paris and you gave me an audio CD with

some samples, some of them being Dani's sound.

Are these different samples? The one you gave

me were from french ethnologists or something

if I remember well (they made a CD of their trip).

By the way, are you in contact with them?

Maybe they could tell us if Dani's people sing with or

without external devices close to their mouth...



Thanks for sharing your knowledge,

take care,

Cedric.





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]