I believe that you can tell more by the seem on the drum than by the badge
number.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi gang,
Just wondering if anyone here can help me determine the rough date (or
at very least the decade ie: 1970's or '80's) when my kit was made via
the badge numbers?
I have learned recently that although the badge numbers may not be in
direct numerical order from one tom tom to the next, the badge numbers
can shed light into when they were manufactured.
This would be of great help as I was told this kit was from the seventies.
They have the olive and blue badge, some numbers are:
1999066,1532009,1526434,1999975.
It's a clear 7 pc. kit.
I'm getting ready to sell it (a very tough decision and part of my
life but it's time has come to go to someone who can continue to play
and enjoy the drum set)
Once I have that info I am going to post it here first and then on
eBay, as much as I despise using eBay these days.
If there are any other drum specific classifieds, on-line or otherwise
that anyone can recommend that would be of great assistance.

Thanks!

Chad

Hi everyone!
   please take a look at my band's live videos shot at one of our shows.

   (leave)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YytqywJ3Ls0
   (superstar) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPUT8t8i2Zo

   your opinions and comments are welcomed.

   Eric
   www.myspace.com/littlesundaydrummer



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all,
   please help littleSUNDAY get to the No.1 spot.
   Kindly follow the link below and vote.

   littlesunday.ultimaterockstar.com

   Thank you in advance for your support!
   www.littlesunday.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

e-bay.  or upgrade to the new style

J <surprise91912@...> wrote:  I have what I believe to be a mid 70's
Vistalite kit and it does not
have the legs for the bass drum. They are the thin ones. Would anyone
have any Idea where I could get some?






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Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have what I believe to be a mid 70's Vistalite kit and it does not
have the legs for the bass drum. They are the thin ones. Would anyone
have any Idea where I could get some?

I have a set of Ludwig Tivoli Vistalites and 3 1/2 Zickos sets (one is
flourescent red -- pink really -- with flames etched in the shells and
the other sets are clear). I have lots of experience custom making
acrylic drums and enjoy playing them. I also have a Pacific LX kit
(maple shells) all internally miked with May internal mikes that I use
for gigging and two Roland V-Drum sets -- a TD-7 and TD-12 set.

RCI shells....These shells are not the same as Goldem times
shells...I know the owner and RCI Shells are thicker than even the
original Ludwig's...Trust me...these are not easy to crack or break
either.

Example:  When I ordered my kit, the shells were packed great, they
framed up the kick drum with a wooden box frame.  Still UPS (Stupis
assholes) threw the kick drum hard enough to crak the hoop in half
and bend one of the t rods!  Still...no crack!

Kudwig shells are still made cheap and even the re-issue kits have
complaints of cracking already.

RCI uses better material and I have to say my Bonham replica kit has
held up well!  I am pretty hard on my playing.

There are a few Companies that make plexi shells and anyone can take
a plexi sheet heat it, bend it and epoxy it and make a kick drum.
It's not that hard.

Cheap materials are sure to crack tho

Kurt



--- In ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Willis <dal-fan@s...>
wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
>        If you drill enough you will realize color pigment makes a
great deal of difference in softness or hardness of shells laso when
you order you can ask for different edges and or snare beds, You can
ask for flat edge , round edge or Bearing edge. All which Gold-N-
Times offers. If you go To Gold-N-Times web page and look at links ,
You will still see a link to RCI as he sold shells to him so linked
to him, but since he wanted to do his own cutting up and reglueing
Ray would not honor hisshells since they were altered yet he got many
complaints from customers so the relationship fell apart.
>
>   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
>
> Marc Attinasi <marc@a...> wrote:
>   Hey Kevin!
>
> Thanks for chiming in with all of the straight-info.  I really
> appreciate it.
>
> Still, I do not think the RCI shells and Gold N times shells are
the
> same. I measured my RCI and Gold N times shells, they are
different
> thicknesses.  The RCI shells are 5/16" thick and the Gold N times
> shells are just over 3/16" (closer to 7/32"). I checked all three
of
> my remaining Gold N Times shells and they all are identical. This
was
> done using a single set of calipers. I also took some pics but it
is
> hard to see the difference really, because my Gold N Times shells
> have unfinished edges and the RCI has shaped edges. I'll post the
> picture anyway in case anyone cares. Also, I have not measured it
yet
> but the density of the shells is different; the RCI shells are
> noticeably heavier for the same size shell, and they are harder to
> drill than the Gold N Times shells. If they come from the same
place
> then they must sell different 'grades' of material.
>
> All that technical stuff aside, I agree 100% with your statements
> about honesty, trust and service - these are critical to having a
> good relationship with a drum maker. Though I am very happy with
the
> RCI product - the actual drums - dealing with them was at times
> trying. It sounds like Percussion Kus-toms has the right attitude
to
> be a successful custom manufacturer!
>
> - marc
> ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~    ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~ ~~~~~
~~~~~
> Marc Attinasi  ( marc@a... / www.attinasi.org /
> www.northdrums.org)
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2005, at 4:17 AM, Kevin Willis wrote:
>
> > Marc,
> >
> >        All you had to do is ask, My shells do come from (Gold-N-
> > Times as does RCI's, Pork Pie, Ludwig, (Tama who are just
starting
> > to put out limited acrylics) as well as Orange County. RCI is
not
> > allowed to show the shell package as they have had slow payment
> > issues and in fact no payment on thier shells RCI simply recuts
the
> > shells but does not make the shells. Keller makes there own
shells
> > but only offer 5 colors and only snares and they are at least
twice
> > as expensive.I have a few exclusives I have worked with Ray on
and
> > helped design. Ray is secretive about the parent company because
it
> > is a contract agreement with Ludwig who buys straight from the
> > parent company. Ray retired from the parent company and now has
the
> > exvlusive as part of his retirement to sell the shells
wholesale.
> > You keep talking about the quality of Gold-N-Times yet your
RCI's
> > came from Gold-N-Times just recut and I have never gotten a bad
> > seam or never waited more than 2 1/2 we! eks to get either a
full
> > set or
> > one shell from Ray. There is no mystery with Percussion Kus-toms
we
> > are a honest company of drummers who give you what you pay for
on
> > time and have never had a complaint on our products and in fact
we
> > have about a 75% repeat customer rate. We do not try to copy
Ludwig
> > and do not use Ludwig lugs, strainers or etc. We wish to become
our
> > own brand and name. Tommy's in Austin also make there own shells
> > but do not sell shells to the public only for use on their own
> > drums. All I know is while RCI's pictures and promo. look great.
> > They have several legal actions against them for frauding people
> > and not delivering any set at all after a year or more. So buy
> > friom whoever you want, Percussionn Kus-toms really would like
your
> > business and try hard to meet your expectations and will shoot
> > straight with you on due dates and charges, So if honesty means
> > anything to you give us a try. If you go to the NAMM show you
will
> > see a ruby stipe coke bottle set made by Truth also a Gold-N-
Times
> > shell package. Look Marc seems happy with RCI even though it
took
> > him 5 months to grt his set, So do what you think best with, I
just
> > don't like seeing musicians liied to and de frauded because when
> > one company ripps people off it looks bad on all of us and I
work
> > hard to make our company above board and protect honesty with
> > customers but do not wish to get into a he said , she said sort
of
> > thing. I have told you the straigt scoop on where shells come
from,
> > take it or leave it. But Percussion Kus-toms would love to have
you
> > as a cus-tomer and will work hard to keep you, So good luck with
> > your choices.
> >
> >   Thanks,
> >   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
> >
> > Marc Attinasi <marc@a...> wrote:
> >
> > I've had experiences with Franky V, buying 'vintage' Vistalite
drums
> > that were incredibly expensive, brand-new, and had 'suspect'
badges
> > and RCI heads. I have purchased a large custom RCI kit in three-
color
> > pattern, and I have purchased several Gold 'N Times shells and
Keller
> > Acrylic snare shells to make my own drums. I have not had the
> > pleasure of purchasing from Percussion Kus-toms yet, nor have I
had
> > an opportunity to see any of them in person.
> >
> > The really interesting question - the big mystery if you will - is
> > where does all of this formed acrylic come from?  RCI says they
make
> > their own shells; Gold N' Time won't say at all, nor will Keller.
> > Franky V. says his drums are all vintage Ludwig, even though he
has
> > more drums than they ever produced. Who is a guy to trust?!?  I
have
> > heard that Gold 'N Times sells shells to Pork Pie, Spaun, Keller,
and
> > I've been told Percussion Kus-Toms gets shells from them too
(here-
> > say from rumor-mongers). Indeed the Gold 'N Times shells I
purchased
> > are identical to the Keller shells I bought. They look exactly
like
> > the Pork Pie PigLite shells too, down to the thickness and
> > reinforcing tab on the seam. The pictures on the Gold N' Times
site
> > look just like the pictures on the Percussion Kus-toms site... I
have
> > heard rumors that there is a link between Sterling Plastics and
Gold
> > N' Times, I have heard all kinds of rumors about RCI and FV - but
> > nobody wants to talk in plain truths. I find it disturbing to be
> > honest.
> >
> > Nobody is coy about using Keller Maple shells. Why all the mystery
> > about acrylics?
> >
> > I bring all of this up because I think it is a shame that people
who
> > just want to enjoy the excellent sound and visual qualities of
> > acrylic drums have to wade through a lot of vagaries and
> > misinformation to get a kit. Of course, you can find good deals on
> > vintage Zickos, Ludwig Vistalites and Fibes Crystalites on eBay
from
> > time to time, but in the world of new custom drums, the acrylic
> > market seems a tad fishy. I guess my experiences overall have
made me
> > leery.
> >
> > Finally, I have no intention of discrediting or sounding
suspicious
> > of Percussion Kus-toms - as I said I have no experience with them
> > yet. However, this is a good opportunity for Kevin to tell us
where
> > his stuff comes from, and how it is made :-)  It would certainly
make
> > me happy to know if they are using the same shells that I bought
from
> > Gold N' Times, or if they are different (hopefully better!).
> >
> > Cheers!
> > - marc
> >
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:51 PM, Kevin Willis wrote:
> >
> > > Eric,
> > >
> > >        Before you buy from RCI try Percussion Kus-toms at
> > > www.percussionkus-toms.com  I certainly will not take 5 months
in
> > > fact the longest I have ever took to get a customer a set is
5weeks
> > > most are complete in 3 1/2 weeks and my seams will not look
white
> > > or have bubblesin them as mentioned in the foregoing letter. I
can
> > > make you almost any stripe or solid color you want and you will
not
> > > have to wait 5 months to get your set.I amnot sure what all the
> > > double talk about the chemical to remove the bubbles is about,
but
> > > suspect it is just that double talk. I have sold two sets to
people
> > > who have waited over a year and never got their set yet and I
was
> > > able to get them the same set in three and 1/2 weeks. It's not
just
> > > growing pains.
> > >
> > >   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
> > >
> > > Kevin Willis <dal-fan@s...> wrote:
> > >   Eric, I could, But since i am his comprtitor I will not, Just
be
> > > carefull
> > >
> > >   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
> > >
> > > Eric <eric.bonatti@r...> wrote:
> > >   Hello group,
> > > hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the
company
> > > RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer
> > info or
> > > feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Eric
> > > www.littlesunday.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   SPONSORED LINKS
> > >         Musical instrument drum   Percussion instruments   Drum
> > > percussion     Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set
> > > Percussion musical instrument
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> > >
> > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > >     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> > >
> > >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > Musical instrument drum      Percussion instruments      Drum
> > percussion
> > > Latin percussion instrument      Percussion drum set
> > Percussion musical
> > > instrument
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> > >
> > >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Musical instrument drum      Percussion instruments      Drum
percussion
> > Latin percussion instrument      Percussion drum set
Percussion musical
> > instrument
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>   SPONSORED LINKS
>         Musical instrument drum   Percussion instruments   Drum
percussion     Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set
Percussion musical instrument
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I am selling this floor tom - RCI made a mistake on the shell
dimensions and when the replace the shell they let me keep the old
one.   I put all brand-new hardware on it, new lugs, new screws, new
legs, new rims, new heads - now I'd like to see if I can sell it!

Three Color Swirl in Amber, Blue and Yellow.  16-inch diameter and 14-
inch depth, with legs.


Pictures here:

http://idisk.mac.com/attinasi/Public/rci/P6201391.JPG
http://idisk.mac.com/attinasi/Public/rci/P6201392.JPG
http://idisk.mac.com/attinasi/Public/rci/P6201393.JPG
http://idisk.mac.com/attinasi/Public/rci/P6201394.JPG


As you can see it is new!  The evans EC-2 heads make acruliocs sound
really nice too, I just dig those new heads.  The bottom head is
Aquarian Classic Clear. All hardware is from Drum Foundry and is good
stuff - no junk.

Make me an offer over $300 if you are interested.

Thanks,
- marc
~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~    ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~ ~~~~~  ~~~~~
Marc Attinasi  ( marc@... / www.attinasi.org /
www.northdrums.org)

FOR SALE ON EBAY: Rare Vistalite SuperSensitive 14 x 10 SnareRed/Clear Spiral
pattern, Superb Condition! Item number: 7383768566


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc,

        If you drill enough you will realize color pigment makes a great deal of
difference in softness or hardness of shells laso when you order you can ask for
different edges and or snare beds, You can ask for flat edge , round edge or
Bearing edge. All which Gold-N-Times offers. If you go To Gold-N-Times web page
and look at links , You will still see a link to RCI as he sold shells to him so
linked to him, but since he wanted to do his own cutting up and reglueing Ray
would not honor hisshells since they were altered yet he got many complaints
from customers so the relationship fell apart.

   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms

Marc Attinasi <marc@...> wrote:
   Hey Kevin!

Thanks for chiming in with all of the straight-info.  I really
appreciate it.

Still, I do not think the RCI shells and Gold N times shells are the
same. I measured my RCI and Gold N times shells, they are different
thicknesses.  The RCI shells are 5/16" thick and the Gold N times
shells are just over 3/16" (closer to 7/32"). I checked all three of
my remaining Gold N Times shells and they all are identical. This was
done using a single set of calipers. I also took some pics but it is
hard to see the difference really, because my Gold N Times shells
have unfinished edges and the RCI has shaped edges. I'll post the
picture anyway in case anyone cares. Also, I have not measured it yet
but the density of the shells is different; the RCI shells are
noticeably heavier for the same size shell, and they are harder to
drill than the Gold N Times shells. If they come from the same place
then they must sell different 'grades' of material.

All that technical stuff aside, I agree 100% with your statements
about honesty, trust and service - these are critical to having a
good relationship with a drum maker. Though I am very happy with the
RCI product - the actual drums - dealing with them was at times
trying. It sounds like Percussion Kus-toms has the right attitude to
be a successful custom manufacturer!

- marc
~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~    ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~ ~~~~~  ~~~~~
Marc Attinasi  ( marc@... / www.attinasi.org /
www.northdrums.org)


On Dec 21, 2005, at 4:17 AM, Kevin Willis wrote:

> Marc,
>
>        All you had to do is ask, My shells do come from (Gold-N-
> Times as does RCI's, Pork Pie, Ludwig, (Tama who are just starting
> to put out limited acrylics) as well as Orange County. RCI is not
> allowed to show the shell package as they have had slow payment
> issues and in fact no payment on thier shells RCI simply recuts the
> shells but does not make the shells. Keller makes there own shells
> but only offer 5 colors and only snares and they are at least twice
> as expensive.I have a few exclusives I have worked with Ray on and
> helped design. Ray is secretive about the parent company because it
> is a contract agreement with Ludwig who buys straight from the
> parent company. Ray retired from the parent company and now has the
> exvlusive as part of his retirement to sell the shells wholesale.
> You keep talking about the quality of Gold-N-Times yet your RCI's
> came from Gold-N-Times just recut and I have never gotten a bad
> seam or never waited more than 2 1/2 we! eks to get either a full
> set or
> one shell from Ray. There is no mystery with Percussion Kus-toms we
> are a honest company of drummers who give you what you pay for on
> time and have never had a complaint on our products and in fact we
> have about a 75% repeat customer rate. We do not try to copy Ludwig
> and do not use Ludwig lugs, strainers or etc. We wish to become our
> own brand and name. Tommy's in Austin also make there own shells
> but do not sell shells to the public only for use on their own
> drums. All I know is while RCI's pictures and promo. look great.
> They have several legal actions against them for frauding people
> and not delivering any set at all after a year or more. So buy
> friom whoever you want, Percussionn Kus-toms really would like your
> business and try hard to meet your expectations and will shoot
> straight with you on due dates and charges, So if honesty means
> anything to you give us a try. If you go to the NAMM show you will
> see a ruby stipe coke bottle set made by Truth also a Gold-N-Times
> shell package. Look Marc seems happy with RCI even though it took
> him 5 months to grt his set, So do what you think best with, I just
> don't like seeing musicians liied to and de frauded because when
> one company ripps people off it looks bad on all of us and I work
> hard to make our company above board and protect honesty with
> customers but do not wish to get into a he said , she said sort of
> thing. I have told you the straigt scoop on where shells come from,
> take it or leave it. But Percussion Kus-toms would love to have you
> as a cus-tomer and will work hard to keep you, So good luck with
> your choices.
>
>   Thanks,
>   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
>
> Marc Attinasi <marc@...> wrote:
>
> I've had experiences with Franky V, buying 'vintage' Vistalite drums
> that were incredibly expensive, brand-new, and had 'suspect' badges
> and RCI heads. I have purchased a large custom RCI kit in three-color
> pattern, and I have purchased several Gold 'N Times shells and Keller
> Acrylic snare shells to make my own drums. I have not had the
> pleasure of purchasing from Percussion Kus-toms yet, nor have I had
> an opportunity to see any of them in person.
>
> The really interesting question - the big mystery if you will - is
> where does all of this formed acrylic come from?  RCI says they make
> their own shells; Gold N' Time won't say at all, nor will Keller.
> Franky V. says his drums are all vintage Ludwig, even though he has
> more drums than they ever produced. Who is a guy to trust?!?  I have
> heard that Gold 'N Times sells shells to Pork Pie, Spaun, Keller, and
> I've been told Percussion Kus-Toms gets shells from them too (here-
> say from rumor-mongers). Indeed the Gold 'N Times shells I purchased
> are identical to the Keller shells I bought. They look exactly like
> the Pork Pie PigLite shells too, down to the thickness and
> reinforcing tab on the seam. The pictures on the Gold N' Times site
> look just like the pictures on the Percussion Kus-toms site... I have
> heard rumors that there is a link between Sterling Plastics and Gold
> N' Times, I have heard all kinds of rumors about RCI and FV - but
> nobody wants to talk in plain truths. I find it disturbing to be
> honest.
>
> Nobody is coy about using Keller Maple shells. Why all the mystery
> about acrylics?
>
> I bring all of this up because I think it is a shame that people who
> just want to enjoy the excellent sound and visual qualities of
> acrylic drums have to wade through a lot of vagaries and
> misinformation to get a kit. Of course, you can find good deals on
> vintage Zickos, Ludwig Vistalites and Fibes Crystalites on eBay from
> time to time, but in the world of new custom drums, the acrylic
> market seems a tad fishy. I guess my experiences overall have made me
> leery.
>
> Finally, I have no intention of discrediting or sounding suspicious
> of Percussion Kus-toms - as I said I have no experience with them
> yet. However, this is a good opportunity for Kevin to tell us where
> his stuff comes from, and how it is made :-)  It would certainly make
> me happy to know if they are using the same shells that I bought from
> Gold N' Times, or if they are different (hopefully better!).
>
> Cheers!
> - marc
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:51 PM, Kevin Willis wrote:
>
> > Eric,
> >
> >        Before you buy from RCI try Percussion Kus-toms at
> > www.percussionkus-toms.com  I certainly will not take 5 months in
> > fact the longest I have ever took to get a customer a set is 5weeks
> > most are complete in 3 1/2 weeks and my seams will not look white
> > or have bubblesin them as mentioned in the foregoing letter. I can
> > make you almost any stripe or solid color you want and you will not
> > have to wait 5 months to get your set.I amnot sure what all the
> > double talk about the chemical to remove the bubbles is about, but
> > suspect it is just that double talk. I have sold two sets to people
> > who have waited over a year and never got their set yet and I was
> > able to get them the same set in three and 1/2 weeks. It's not just
> > growing pains.
> >
> >   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
> >
> > Kevin Willis <dal-fan@...> wrote:
> >   Eric, I could, But since i am his comprtitor I will not, Just be
> > carefull
> >
> >   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
> >
> > Eric <eric.bonatti@...> wrote:
> >   Hello group,
> > hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
> > RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer
> info or
> > feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Eric
> > www.littlesunday.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   SPONSORED LINKS
> >         Musical instrument drum   Percussion instruments   Drum
> > percussion     Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set
> > Percussion musical instrument
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
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> > Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Musical instrument drum      Percussion instruments      Drum
> percussion
> > Latin percussion instrument      Percussion drum set
> Percussion musical
> > instrument
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
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> instrument
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Kevin!

Thanks for chiming in with all of the straight-info.  I really
appreciate it.

Still, I do not think the RCI shells and Gold N times shells are the
same. I measured my RCI and Gold N times shells, they are different
thicknesses.  The RCI shells are 5/16" thick and the Gold N times
shells are just over 3/16" (closer to 7/32"). I checked all three of
my remaining Gold N Times shells and they all are identical. This was
done using a single set of calipers. I also took some pics but it is
hard to see the difference really, because my Gold N Times shells
have unfinished edges and the RCI has shaped edges. I'll post the
picture anyway in case anyone cares. Also, I have not measured it yet
but the density of the shells is different; the RCI shells are
noticeably heavier for the same size shell, and they are harder to
drill than the Gold N Times shells. If they come from the same place
then they must sell different 'grades' of material.

All that technical stuff aside, I agree 100% with your statements
about honesty, trust and service - these are critical to having a
good relationship with a drum maker. Though I am very happy with the
RCI product - the actual drums - dealing with them was at times
trying. It sounds like Percussion Kus-toms has the right attitude to
be a successful custom manufacturer!

- marc
~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~    ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~ ~~~~~  ~~~~~
Marc Attinasi  ( marc@... / www.attinasi.org /
www.northdrums.org)


On Dec 21, 2005, at 4:17 AM, Kevin Willis wrote:

> Marc,
>
>        All you had to do is ask, My shells do come from (Gold-N-
> Times as does RCI's, Pork Pie, Ludwig, (Tama who are just starting
> to put out limited acrylics) as well as Orange County. RCI is not
> allowed to show the shell package as they have had slow payment
> issues and in fact no payment on thier shells RCI simply recuts the
> shells but does not make the shells. Keller makes there own shells
> but only offer 5 colors and only snares and they are at least twice
> as expensive.I have a few exclusives I have worked with Ray on and
> helped design. Ray is secretive about the parent company because it
> is a contract agreement with Ludwig who buys straight from the
> parent company. Ray retired from the parent company and now has the
> exvlusive as part of his retirement to sell the shells wholesale.
> You keep talking about the quality of Gold-N-Times yet your RCI's
> came from Gold-N-Times just recut and I have never gotten a bad
> seam or never waited more than 2 1/2 we! eks to get either a full
> set or
> one shell from Ray. There is no mystery with Percussion Kus-toms we
> are a honest company of drummers who give you what you pay for on
> time and have never had a complaint on our products and in fact we
> have about a 75% repeat customer rate. We do not try to copy Ludwig
> and do not use Ludwig lugs, strainers or etc. We wish to become our
> own brand and name. Tommy's in Austin also make there own shells
> but do not sell shells to the public only for use on their own
> drums. All I know is while RCI's pictures and promo. look great.
> They have several legal actions against them for frauding people
> and not delivering any set at all after a year or more. So buy
> friom whoever you want, Percussionn Kus-toms really would like your
> business and try hard to meet your expectations and will shoot
> straight with you on due dates and charges, So if honesty means
> anything to you give us a try. If you go to the NAMM show you will
> see a ruby stipe coke bottle set made by Truth also a Gold-N-Times
> shell package. Look Marc seems happy with RCI even though it took
> him 5 months to grt his set, So do what you think best with, I just
> don't like seeing musicians liied to and de frauded because when
> one company ripps people off it looks bad on all of us and I work
> hard to make our company above board and protect honesty with
> customers but do not wish to get into a he said , she said sort of
> thing. I have told you the straigt scoop on where shells come from,
> take it or leave it. But Percussion Kus-toms would love to have you
> as a cus-tomer and will work hard to keep you, So good luck with
> your choices.
>
>   Thanks,
>   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
>
> Marc Attinasi <marc@...> wrote:
>
> I've had experiences with Franky V, buying 'vintage' Vistalite drums
> that were incredibly expensive, brand-new, and had 'suspect' badges
> and RCI heads. I have purchased a large custom RCI kit in three-color
> pattern, and I have purchased several Gold 'N Times shells and Keller
> Acrylic snare shells to make my own drums. I have not had the
> pleasure of purchasing from Percussion Kus-toms yet, nor have I had
> an opportunity to see any of them in person.
>
> The really interesting question - the big mystery if you will - is
> where does all of this formed acrylic come from?  RCI says they make
> their own shells; Gold N' Time won't say at all, nor will Keller.
> Franky V. says his drums are all vintage Ludwig, even though he has
> more drums than they ever produced. Who is a guy to trust?!?  I have
> heard that Gold 'N Times sells shells to Pork Pie, Spaun, Keller, and
> I've been told Percussion Kus-Toms gets shells from them too (here-
> say from rumor-mongers). Indeed the Gold 'N Times shells I purchased
> are identical to the Keller shells I bought. They look exactly like
> the Pork Pie PigLite shells too, down to the thickness and
> reinforcing tab on the seam. The pictures on the Gold N' Times site
> look just like the pictures on the Percussion Kus-toms site... I have
> heard rumors that there is a link between Sterling Plastics and Gold
> N' Times, I have heard all kinds of rumors about RCI and FV - but
> nobody wants to talk in plain truths. I find it disturbing to be
> honest.
>
> Nobody is coy about using Keller Maple shells. Why all the mystery
> about acrylics?
>
> I bring all of this up because I think it is a shame that people who
> just want to enjoy the excellent sound and visual qualities of
> acrylic drums have to wade through a lot of vagaries and
> misinformation to get a kit. Of course, you can find good deals on
> vintage Zickos, Ludwig Vistalites and Fibes Crystalites on eBay from
> time to time, but in the world of new custom drums, the acrylic
> market seems a tad fishy. I guess my experiences overall have made me
> leery.
>
> Finally, I have no intention of discrediting or sounding suspicious
> of Percussion Kus-toms - as I said I have no experience with them
> yet. However, this is a good opportunity for Kevin to tell us where
> his stuff comes from, and how it is made :-)  It would certainly make
> me happy to know if they are using the same shells that I bought from
> Gold N' Times, or if they are different (hopefully better!).
>
> Cheers!
> - marc
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:51 PM, Kevin Willis wrote:
>
> > Eric,
> >
> >        Before you buy from RCI try Percussion Kus-toms at
> > www.percussionkus-toms.com  I certainly will not take 5 months in
> > fact the longest I have ever took to get a customer a set is 5weeks
> > most are complete in 3 1/2 weeks and my seams will not look white
> > or have bubblesin them as mentioned in the foregoing letter. I can
> > make you almost any stripe or solid color you want and you will not
> > have to wait 5 months to get your set.I amnot sure what all the
> > double talk about the chemical to remove the bubbles is about, but
> > suspect it is just that double talk. I have sold two sets to people
> > who have waited over a year and never got their set yet and I was
> > able to get them the same set in three and 1/2 weeks. It's not just
> > growing pains.
> >
> >   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
> >
> > Kevin Willis <dal-fan@...> wrote:
> >   Eric, I could, But since i am his comprtitor I will not, Just be
> > carefull
> >
> >   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
> >
> > Eric <eric.bonatti@...> wrote:
> >   Hello group,
> > hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
> > RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer
> info or
> > feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Eric
> > www.littlesunday.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   SPONSORED LINKS
> >         Musical instrument drum   Percussion instruments   Drum
> > percussion     Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set
> > Percussion musical instrument
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Musical instrument drum      Percussion instruments      Drum
> percussion
> > Latin percussion instrument      Percussion drum set
> Percussion musical
> > instrument
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
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>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Musical instrument drum Percussion instruments Drum percussion
> Latin percussion instrument Percussion drum set Percussion musical
> instrument
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
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>  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc,

        All you had to do is ask, My shells do come from (Gold-N-Times as does
RCI's, Pork Pie, Ludwig, (Tama who are just starting to put out limited
acrylics) as well as Orange County. RCI is not allowed to show the shell package
as they have had slow payment issues and in fact no payment on thier shells RCI
simply recuts the shells but does not make the shells. Keller makes there own
shells but only offer 5 colors and only snares and they are at least twice as
expensive.I have a few exclusives I have worked with Ray on and helped design.
Ray is secretive about the parent company because it is a contract agreement
with Ludwig who buys straight from the parent company. Ray retired from the
parent company and now has the exvlusive as part of his retirement to sell the
shells wholesale. You keep talking about the quality of Gold-N-Times yet your
RCI's came from Gold-N-Times just recut and I have never gotten a bad seam or
never waited more than 2 1/2 weeks to get either a full set or
  one shell from Ray. There is no mystery with Percussion Kus-toms we are a
honest company of drummers who give you what you pay for on time and have never
had a complaint on our products and in fact we have about a 75% repeat customer
rate. We do not try to copy Ludwig and do not use Ludwig lugs, strainers or etc.
We wish to become our own brand and name. Tommy's in Austin also make there own
shells but do not sell shells to the public only for use on their own drums. All
I know is while RCI's pictures and promo. look great. They have several legal
actions against them for frauding people and not delivering any set at all after
a year or more. So buy friom whoever you want, Percussionn Kus-toms really would
like your business and try hard to meet your expectations and will shoot
straight with you on due dates and charges, So if honesty means anything to you
give us a try. If you go to the NAMM show you will see a ruby stipe coke bottle
set made by Truth also a Gold-N-Times shell
  package. Look Marc seems happy with RCI even though it took him 5 months to grt
his set, So do what you think best with, I just don't like seeing musicians
liied to and de frauded because when one company ripps people off it looks bad
on all of us and I work hard to make our company above board and protect honesty
with customers but do not wish to get into a he said , she said sort of thing. I
have told you the straigt scoop on where shells come from, take it or leave it.
But Percussion Kus-toms would love to have you as a cus-tomer and will work hard
to keep you, So good luck with your choices.

   Thanks,
   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms

Marc Attinasi <marc@...> wrote:

I've had experiences with Franky V, buying 'vintage' Vistalite drums
that were incredibly expensive, brand-new, and had 'suspect' badges
and RCI heads. I have purchased a large custom RCI kit in three-color
pattern, and I have purchased several Gold 'N Times shells and Keller
Acrylic snare shells to make my own drums. I have not had the
pleasure of purchasing from Percussion Kus-toms yet, nor have I had
an opportunity to see any of them in person.

The really interesting question - the big mystery if you will - is
where does all of this formed acrylic come from?  RCI says they make
their own shells; Gold N' Time won't say at all, nor will Keller.
Franky V. says his drums are all vintage Ludwig, even though he has
more drums than they ever produced. Who is a guy to trust?!?  I have
heard that Gold 'N Times sells shells to Pork Pie, Spaun, Keller, and
I've been told Percussion Kus-Toms gets shells from them too (here-
say from rumor-mongers). Indeed the Gold 'N Times shells I purchased
are identical to the Keller shells I bought. They look exactly like
the Pork Pie PigLite shells too, down to the thickness and
reinforcing tab on the seam. The pictures on the Gold N' Times site
look just like the pictures on the Percussion Kus-toms site... I have
heard rumors that there is a link between Sterling Plastics and Gold
N' Times, I have heard all kinds of rumors about RCI and FV - but
nobody wants to talk in plain truths. I find it disturbing to be honest.

Nobody is coy about using Keller Maple shells. Why all the mystery
about acrylics?

I bring all of this up because I think it is a shame that people who
just want to enjoy the excellent sound and visual qualities of
acrylic drums have to wade through a lot of vagaries and
misinformation to get a kit. Of course, you can find good deals on
vintage Zickos, Ludwig Vistalites and Fibes Crystalites on eBay from
time to time, but in the world of new custom drums, the acrylic
market seems a tad fishy. I guess my experiences overall have made me
leery.

Finally, I have no intention of discrediting or sounding suspicious
of Percussion Kus-toms - as I said I have no experience with them
yet. However, this is a good opportunity for Kevin to tell us where
his stuff comes from, and how it is made :-)  It would certainly make
me happy to know if they are using the same shells that I bought from
Gold N' Times, or if they are different (hopefully better!).

Cheers!
- marc


On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:51 PM, Kevin Willis wrote:

> Eric,
>
>        Before you buy from RCI try Percussion Kus-toms at
> www.percussionkus-toms.com  I certainly will not take 5 months in
> fact the longest I have ever took to get a customer a set is 5weeks
> most are complete in 3 1/2 weeks and my seams will not look white
> or have bubblesin them as mentioned in the foregoing letter. I can
> make you almost any stripe or solid color you want and you will not
> have to wait 5 months to get your set.I amnot sure what all the
> double talk about the chemical to remove the bubbles is about, but
> suspect it is just that double talk. I have sold two sets to people
> who have waited over a year and never got their set yet and I was
> able to get them the same set in three and 1/2 weeks. It's not just
> growing pains.
>
>   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
>
> Kevin Willis <dal-fan@...> wrote:
>   Eric, I could, But since i am his comprtitor I will not, Just be
> carefull
>
>   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
>
> Eric <eric.bonatti@...> wrote:
>   Hello group,
> hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
> RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer info or
> feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric
> www.littlesunday.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   SPONSORED LINKS
>         Musical instrument drum   Percussion instruments   Drum
> percussion     Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set
> Percussion musical instrument
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Musical instrument drum      Percussion instruments      Drum percussion
> Latin percussion instrument      Percussion drum set      Percussion musical
> instrument
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.

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---------------------------------






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've had experiences with Franky V, buying 'vintage' Vistalite drums
that were incredibly expensive, brand-new, and had 'suspect' badges
and RCI heads. I have purchased a large custom RCI kit in three-color
pattern, and I have purchased several Gold 'N Times shells and Keller
Acrylic snare shells to make my own drums. I have not had the
pleasure of purchasing from Percussion Kus-toms yet, nor have I had
an opportunity to see any of them in person.

The really interesting question - the big mystery if you will - is
where does all of this formed acrylic come from?  RCI says they make
their own shells; Gold N' Time won't say at all, nor will Keller.
Franky V. says his drums are all vintage Ludwig, even though he has
more drums than they ever produced. Who is a guy to trust?!?  I have
heard that Gold 'N Times sells shells to Pork Pie, Spaun, Keller, and
I've been told Percussion Kus-Toms gets shells from them too (here-
say from rumor-mongers). Indeed the Gold 'N Times shells I purchased
are identical to the Keller shells I bought. They look exactly like
the Pork Pie PigLite shells too, down to the thickness and
reinforcing tab on the seam. The pictures on the Gold N' Times site
look just like the pictures on the Percussion Kus-toms site... I have
heard rumors that there is a link between Sterling Plastics and Gold
N' Times, I have heard all kinds of rumors about RCI and FV - but
nobody wants to talk in plain truths. I find it disturbing to be honest.

Nobody is coy about using Keller Maple shells. Why all the mystery
about acrylics?

I bring all of this up because I think it is a shame that people who
just want to enjoy the excellent sound and visual qualities of
acrylic drums have to wade through a lot of vagaries and
misinformation to get a kit. Of course, you can find good deals on
vintage Zickos, Ludwig Vistalites and Fibes Crystalites on eBay from
time to time, but in the world of new custom drums, the acrylic
market seems a tad fishy. I guess my experiences overall have made me
leery.

Finally, I have no intention of discrediting or sounding suspicious
of Percussion Kus-toms - as I said I have no experience with them
yet. However, this is a good opportunity for Kevin to tell us where
his stuff comes from, and how it is made :-)  It would certainly make
me happy to know if they are using the same shells that I bought from
Gold N' Times, or if they are different (hopefully better!).

Cheers!
- marc


On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:51 PM, Kevin Willis wrote:

> Eric,
>
>        Before you buy from RCI try Percussion Kus-toms at
> www.percussionkus-toms.com  I certainly will not take 5 months in
> fact the longest I have ever took to get a customer a set is 5weeks
> most are complete in 3 1/2 weeks and my seams will not look white
> or have bubblesin them as mentioned in the foregoing letter. I can
> make you almost any stripe or solid color you want and you will not
> have to wait 5 months to get your set.I amnot sure what all the
> double talk about the chemical to remove the bubbles is about, but
> suspect it is just that double talk. I have sold two sets to people
> who have waited over a year and never got their set yet and I was
> able to get them the same set in three and 1/2 weeks. It's not just
> growing pains.
>
>   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
>
> Kevin Willis <dal-fan@...> wrote:
>   Eric, I could, But since i am his comprtitor I will not, Just be
> carefull
>
>   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms
>
> Eric <eric.bonatti@...> wrote:
>   Hello group,
> hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
> RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer info or
> feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric
> www.littlesunday.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   SPONSORED LINKS
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> percussion     Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set
> Percussion musical instrument
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
>     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Musical instrument drum Percussion instruments Drum percussion
> Latin percussion instrument Percussion drum set Percussion musical
> instrument
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric,

        Before you buy from RCI try Percussion Kus-toms at
www.percussionkus-toms.com  I certainly will not take 5 months in fact the
longest I have ever took to get a customer a set is 5weeks most are complete in
3 1/2 weeks and my seams will not look white or have bubblesin them as mentioned
in the foregoing letter. I can make you almost any stripe or solid color you
want and you will not have to wait 5 months to get your set.I amnot sure what
all the double talk about the chemical to remove the bubbles is about, but
suspect it is just that double talk. I have sold two sets to people who have
waited over a year and never got their set yet and I was able to get them the
same set in three and 1/2 weeks. It's not just growing pains.

   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms

Kevin Willis <dal-fan@...> wrote:
   Eric, I could, But since i am his comprtitor I will not, Just be carefull

   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms

Eric <eric.bonatti@...> wrote:
   Hello group,
hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer info or
feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.

Thanks!

Eric
www.littlesunday.com






   SPONSORED LINKS
         Musical instrument drum   Percussion instruments   Drum percussion    
Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set   Percussion musical
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---------------------------------
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---------------------------------






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



---------------------------------
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---------------------------------






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric, I could, But since i am his comprtitor I will not, Just be carefull

   Kevin / Percussion Kus-toms

Eric <eric.bonatti@...> wrote:
   Hello group,
hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer info or
feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.

Thanks!

Eric
www.littlesunday.com






   SPONSORED LINKS
         Musical instrument drum   Percussion instruments   Drum percussion    
Latin percussion instrument   Percussion drum set   Percussion musical
instrument

---------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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---------------------------------






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Marc,
   the pic attachment didn't make it, but i followed your link to
www.attinasi.org
   and found the gallery...  very impressive!

   Eric
www.littlesunday.com


Marc Attinasi <marc@...> wrote:
   Hello,

I just purchased a large custom made kit from RCI - three color
pattern shells made to my specs.

The quality of the drums is very good. Their shells are the best out
there. The service was not great - promised in 3 weeks took 5 months
to get them! But, they are decent folks and did make the drums right
in the end. I think they are having growing pains maybe, and that is
why their service is not the best. anyway, they are a good drum at a
good value and they stand behind their work. Also, it is the only
reasonable way to get some exotic acrylic patterns! Purchasing an
original Ludwig kit in this pattern would have cost me twice as much,
and even then who know how much of it would be original... I decided
to avoid the sketchy vintage market and have some new ones made.

One thing I will mention is that the seams are a little more
noticeable than on older Vistalites. There are some air bubbles that
make the seams appear 'white' on some of the drums. I was told that
the chemicals used to reduce the air bubbles are illegal now, and
that is why the seams are as such. Anyway, I just mention it as a
comparison against my three-color Vistalites - the RCI shells are
otherwise on par with the vintage Ludwig shells, and WAY better than
the current Ludwig / Gold 'N Times shells (which, incidentally, are
just not very well made, not very musical and not built to last).

Here is a picture of my kit, just so I can show it off!



- marc
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
Marc Attinasi ( marc@... / www.attinasi.org /
www.northdrums.org)


On Dec 20, 2005, at 6:28 AM, Eric wrote:

> Hello group,
> hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
> RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas. Can anyone offer info or
> feedback on it? Quality, service, etc.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric
> www.littlesunday.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Musical instrument drum Percussion instruments Drum percussion
> Latin percussion instrument Percussion drum set Percussion musical
> instrument
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(Oops! photo posted to Photos section of group, email attachment did
not work)

- marc

On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:16 AM, Marc Attinasi wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I just purchased a large custom made kit from RCI - three color
> pattern shells made to my specs.
>
> The quality of the drums is very good. Their shells are the best out
> there. The service was not great - promised in 3 weeks took 5 months
> to get them!  But, they are decent folks and did make the drums right
> in the end. I think they are having growing pains maybe, and that is
> why their service is not the best. anyway, they are a good drum at a
> good value and they stand behind their work. Also, it is the only
> reasonable way to get some exotic acrylic patterns!  Purchasing an
> original Ludwig kit in this pattern would have cost me twice as much,
> and even then who know how much of it would be original... I decided
> to avoid the sketchy vintage market and have some new ones made.
>
> One thing I will mention is that the seams are a little more
> noticeable than on older Vistalites. There are some air bubbles that
> make the seams appear 'white' on some of the drums. I was told that
> the chemicals used to reduce the air bubbles are illegal now, and
> that is why the seams are as such. Anyway, I just mention it as a
> comparison against my three-color Vistalites - the RCI shells are
> otherwise on par with the vintage Ludwig shells, and WAY better than
> the current Ludwig / Gold 'N Times shells (which, incidentally, are
> just not very well made, not very musical and not built to last).
>
> Here is a picture of my kit, just so I can show it off!
>
>
> 
> - marc
> ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~    ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~ ~~~~~  ~~~~~
> Marc Attinasi  ( marc@... / www.attinasi.org /
> www.northdrums.org)
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2005, at 6:28 AM, Eric wrote:
>
> > Hello group,
> > hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
> > RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer
> info or
> > feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Eric
> > www.littlesunday.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Musical instrument drum      Percussion instruments      Drum
> percussion
> > Latin percussion instrument      Percussion drum set
> Percussion musical
> > instrument
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
> >
> >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

I just purchased a large custom made kit from RCI - three color
pattern shells made to my specs.

The quality of the drums is very good. Their shells are the best out
there. The service was not great - promised in 3 weeks took 5 months
to get them!  But, they are decent folks and did make the drums right
in the end. I think they are having growing pains maybe, and that is
why their service is not the best. anyway, they are a good drum at a
good value and they stand behind their work. Also, it is the only
reasonable way to get some exotic acrylic patterns!  Purchasing an
original Ludwig kit in this pattern would have cost me twice as much,
and even then who know how much of it would be original... I decided
to avoid the sketchy vintage market and have some new ones made.

One thing I will mention is that the seams are a little more
noticeable than on older Vistalites. There are some air bubbles that
make the seams appear 'white' on some of the drums. I was told that
the chemicals used to reduce the air bubbles are illegal now, and
that is why the seams are as such. Anyway, I just mention it as a
comparison against my three-color Vistalites - the RCI shells are
otherwise on par with the vintage Ludwig shells, and WAY better than
the current Ludwig / Gold 'N Times shells (which, incidentally, are
just not very well made, not very musical and not built to last).

Here is a picture of my kit, just so I can show it off!



- marc
~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~    ~~~~~  ~~~~~  ~~~~~ ~~~~~  ~~~~~
Marc Attinasi  ( marc@... / www.attinasi.org /
www.northdrums.org)


On Dec 20, 2005, at 6:28 AM, Eric wrote:

> Hello group,
> hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
> RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer info or
> feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric
> www.littlesunday.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Musical instrument drum Percussion instruments Drum percussion
> Latin percussion instrument Percussion drum set Percussion musical
> instrument
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello group,
hoping not to sound blasphemous, but i'm inquiring about the company
RCI Starlite that makes Vistalite replicas.  Can anyone offer info or
feedback on it?  Quality, service, etc.

Thanks!

Eric
www.littlesunday.com

I lust thought I'd let you know that we have a new online forum at
Vistalitedrums.com . It's a general drummers forum and all are welcome
to join.

here is the location:

http://vistalitedrums.10.forumer.com/

This is a start-up and is still under construction but it is on and
working. Check it out if you find the time.

   Thanks,
   Kenny

Sorry...the link...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:31&item=7\
372830037


----- Original Message -----
From: "Torbjorn Bovik" <bovik@...>
To: <ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 12:14 PM
Subject: [Ludwig Vistalites] 14" Ludwig amber floor tom for sale


Hello.
Here's a 14" Ludwig Amber vistalite floor tom up for auction at ebay! It's in
escellent condition and practically brand new.
Happy bidding... =)


**************************************************************************
Tobbe Bövik
GOTHENBURG
Sweden
www.awesomemachine.com
**************************************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello.
Here's a 14" Ludwig Amber vistalite floor tom up for auction at ebay! It's in
escellent condition and practically brand new.
Happy bidding... =)


**************************************************************************
Tobbe Bövik
GOTHENBURG
Sweden
www.awesomemachine.com
**************************************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anyone interested in acrylics should check out my web site at
WWW.Percussionkus-toms.com I own and operate a custom acrylic drum
company and we have lots of pictures posted of some very cool drums we
make. High end first quality with attention to detail.

Kevin

Hey James:

Thanks for the kind words.  Is your Tivoli kit in complete working order??  I
have heard that the Tivoli kit was the main reason Ludwig discontinued the
Vistalite line.  They lost sooooo much money on returns (not to mention the
rising cost of plastic) due to very few of these disco kits actually working.
The good news is, you no longer need to buy into retirement funds, just sell the
kit when you reach 65 and live a happy life with only 2 vistalites left.

Regards,

Tim
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: James Johnson
   To: ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:22 PM
   Subject: Re: [Ludwig Vistalites] New Member


   Hi Tim
           I'm close to Canada, North Dakota !!! I own
   three Vistalite kits , including a Tivoli Lighted kit
   If you have any questions feel free to email me. My
   respones might be slow, I play in a band every
   weekend.Jim
   --- rubywine420 <rubywine@...> wrote:

   > Hi All Members:
   >
   > I am new to the group and look forward to sharing
   > vistalite stories,
   > experiences, etc...  I recently purchased a
   > vistalite kit and I have
   > some questions regarding how to date these.  Anyone
   > about??  Starting
   > to get cold up here in Canada.
   >
   > Tim
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >



   SPONSORED LINKS Musical instrument drum  Percussion instruments  Drum
percussion
         Latin percussion instrument  Percussion drum set  Percussion musical
instrument


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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     a..  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.

     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Hi Tim
>         I'm close to Canada, North Dakota !!! I own
> three Vistalite kits , including a Tivoli Lighted kit
> If you have any questions feel free to email me. My
> respones might be slow, I play in a band every
> weekend.Jim
> --- rubywine420 <rubywine@...> wrote:


Hey Jim, jealous as hell here.

I've a clear Vistalite (and a Super Classic and a Fibes chrome on
fibreglass, and...) but I always wanted a Tivoli.

Do you, have you, ever played it or do you use it regularly? I'm wondering
about how the globes hold up to serious vibration - as when the kit is being
played.

I kinda assume you use another kit for regular gigs. Would you write about
that - difference in sound etc?

I've never played my Vistalite much at all. My son used it one time but he
was so spooked about accidently wrecking it he didn't let anyone near it all
night!


john hollands
sydney

Hi Tim
         I'm close to Canada, North Dakota !!! I own
three Vistalite kits , including a Tivoli Lighted kit
If you have any questions feel free to email me. My
respones might be slow, I play in a band every
weekend.Jim
--- rubywine420 <rubywine@...> wrote:

> Hi All Members:
>
> I am new to the group and look forward to sharing
> vistalite stories,
> experiences, etc...  I recently purchased a
> vistalite kit and I have
> some questions regarding how to date these.  Anyone
> about??  Starting
> to get cold up here in Canada.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>

Welcome Tim,



--- rubywine420 <rubywine@...> wrote:

> Hi All Members:
>
> I am new to the group and look forward to sharing
> vistalite stories,
> experiences, etc...  I recently purchased a
> vistalite kit and I have
> some questions regarding how to date these.  Anyone
> about??  Starting
> to get cold up here in Canada.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>

I checked out your website Eric.  My band is looking for opening (supporting)
gigs.  We do 30-45 mins of high energy R'nR.  Are you in need of an opening act,
we don't cost much.  We are actually based in Newmarket.  Vivian & Yonge area. 
E-mail me off line if there is any interest.
rubywine@...

Regards,

Tim Gibb

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Eric Bonatti
   To: ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:40 AM
   Subject: Re: [Ludwig Vistalites] Re: New Member


   Hey Tim,
   good to see another fellow Vistalite player in the Toronto area.  I'm in
Newmarket, you?

   Eric
   www.littlesunday.com


   Tim Gibb <rubywine@...> wrote:
   Thank you for your quick reply Edward and also Vista1868. It is a blue Ludwig
vistalite. 22" bass, 14" Rack tom, 16" Floor, and 14"x6" snare. I paid $1500
Canadian, (about $1150 US) from a vintage music store in Toronto (Songbird music
on Queen St.) for the simple reason, I have never in my life seen a vistalite
kit in such immaculate shape. No rack tom rub on the bass, the seams are
excellent, no cracks of any kind and no spider webs. Besides a couple of light
scratches on the bottom of the bass drum I would classify this kit as absolute
MINT. However a 18" floor tom would not go a miss, anyone got one for sale???? I
check e-bay from time to time. the badges go from 1572667 Snare, to 1626001 on
the 16" Floor. The mufflers holes are drilled vertical not horizontal as the
later ones were, so it looks to me that the snare, rack and floor are all pre
75, however the bass drum has 1/4" spurs, which tells me that the bass drum was
post 75. Am I correct???
   I've been drumming for 22 years and at 35 now, I started at an early age. I
play in a couple of bands, namely "The Miles High Band" an original hard rock
outfit (hence the vistalites work great with our sound) Blue Oyster Cult meets
the Marshall Tucker Band. I won't say STP meets Garth Brooks, but it has been
quoted before.
   I will post a picture of my kit when I have a chance in the next couple of
weeks. And being from north Toronto it tends to get a little cold here in the
winter, but according to my geographical mind, Racine Wis. is not only further
north than me, but considerably colder in the winter, anyone who visits Lambeau
field during Dec-Jan will attest to that GO BILLS!!!

   Regards,

   Tim Gibb

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kymberlea Richtmyre
   To: ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:01 PM
   Subject: Re: [Ludwig Vistalites] Re: New Member


   HELLO TIM !! GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US ! YES, vista1868 IS CORRECT ABOUT ALL
THE INFO OUT THERE CONCERNING EVERYTHING " VISTALITE " ....... VISTALITES.COM IS
A GOOD ONE TO START THE BALL ROLLING !! ANOTHER SITE IS RCIVISTALITE.COM
.............. BEEN PLAYING LONG, TIM ? WHAT COLOR IS YOUR SET,AND HOW MANY
DRUMS? LUDWIG, OR ANOTHER BRAND ? WERE THEY IN GOOD SHAPE ? ANY FROST UP THERE
?? HA ......... SORRY, JUST HAD TO THROW THAT OUT TO YOU !! HOPE YOU'LL ENJOY
YOUR STAY WITH US, AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT WE'RE HERE TO SHARE AND COMMENT ON
ANYTHING, EVEN THE MOST TRIVIAL/ MUNDANE....... Soooooooo, KEEP THOSE Q's COMING
!! OF COURSE, POSTING SOME PICTURES OF YOUR KIT WOULD BE VERY COOL TOO, BUT
MAYBE...... NOT AS COOL AS CANADA IS, RIGHT ? ( heh-heh....) WE HOPE TO HEAR
FROM YOU !! TAKE CARE, EDWARD RICHTMYRE, RACINE, WISCONSIN
************************************************

   vista1868 wrote: --- In ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com, "rubywine420"
   wrote:
   >Hi Tim,welcome aboard.Not to many of us left that I see.Will try to
   answer any question.If you look around on the web,you will find a ton
   of information.Note:numbers on badges do not signify anything.They
   are production numbers.They were never tracked according to
   Ludwig.Check the Modern Drummer website as well........they have an
   article about the authenticity of the badges.Good luck and feel free
   to ask away.Sincerely,vista1868.
   > Hi All Members:
   >
   > I am new to the group and look forward to sharing vistalite
   stories,
   > experiences, etc... I recently purchased a vistalite kit and I
   have
   > some questions regarding how to date these. Anyone about??
   Starting
   > to get cold up here in Canada.
   >
   > Tim
   >






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   ---------------------------------







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   a.. Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.

   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





   Yahoo! Groups Links








   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

     a..  Visit your group "ludwigvistalites" on the web.

     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      ludwigvistalites-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Eric:

Get the F**K outta here.  I am in Keswick  HAHAHAHA!!!!!

Small world isn't it???  WOW.  15 mins away!!

Tim
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Eric Bonatti
   To: ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:40 AM
   Subject: Re: [Ludwig Vistalites] Re: New Member


   Hey Tim,
   good to see another fellow Vistalite player in the Toronto area.  I'm in
Newmarket, you?

   Eric
   www.littlesunday.com


   Tim Gibb <rubywine@...> wrote:
   Thank you for your quick reply Edward and also Vista1868. It is a blue Ludwig
vistalite. 22" bass, 14" Rack tom, 16" Floor, and 14"x6" snare. I paid $1500
Canadian, (about $1150 US) from a vintage music store in Toronto (Songbird music
on Queen St.) for the simple reason, I have never in my life seen a vistalite
kit in such immaculate shape. No rack tom rub on the bass, the seams are
excellent, no cracks of any kind and no spider webs. Besides a couple of light
scratches on the bottom of the bass drum I would classify this kit as absolute
MINT. However a 18" floor tom would not go a miss, anyone got one for sale???? I
check e-bay from time to time. the badges go from 1572667 Snare, to 1626001 on
the 16" Floor. The mufflers holes are drilled vertical not horizontal as the
later ones were, so it looks to me that the snare, rack and floor are all pre
75, however the bass drum has 1/4" spurs, which tells me that the bass drum was
post 75. Am I correct???
   I've been drumming for 22 years and at 35 now, I started at an early age. I
play in a couple of bands, namely "The Miles High Band" an original hard rock
outfit (hence the vistalites work great with our sound) Blue Oyster Cult meets
the Marshall Tucker Band. I won't say STP meets Garth Brooks, but it has been
quoted before.
   I will post a picture of my kit when I have a chance in the next couple of
weeks. And being from north Toronto it tends to get a little cold here in the
winter, but according to my geographical mind, Racine Wis. is not only further
north than me, but considerably colder in the winter, anyone who visits Lambeau
field during Dec-Jan will attest to that GO BILLS!!!

   Regards,

   Tim Gibb

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kymberlea Richtmyre
   To: ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:01 PM
   Subject: Re: [Ludwig Vistalites] Re: New Member


   HELLO TIM !! GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US ! YES, vista1868 IS CORRECT ABOUT ALL
THE INFO OUT THERE CONCERNING EVERYTHING " VISTALITE " ....... VISTALITES.COM IS
A GOOD ONE TO START THE BALL ROLLING !! ANOTHER SITE IS RCIVISTALITE.COM
.............. BEEN PLAYING LONG, TIM ? WHAT COLOR IS YOUR SET,AND HOW MANY
DRUMS? LUDWIG, OR ANOTHER BRAND ? WERE THEY IN GOOD SHAPE ? ANY FROST UP THERE
?? HA ......... SORRY, JUST HAD TO THROW THAT OUT TO YOU !! HOPE YOU'LL ENJOY
YOUR STAY WITH US, AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT WE'RE HERE TO SHARE AND COMMENT ON
ANYTHING, EVEN THE MOST TRIVIAL/ MUNDANE....... Soooooooo, KEEP THOSE Q's COMING
!! OF COURSE, POSTING SOME PICTURES OF YOUR KIT WOULD BE VERY COOL TOO, BUT
MAYBE...... NOT AS COOL AS CANADA IS, RIGHT ? ( heh-heh....) WE HOPE TO HEAR
FROM YOU !! TAKE CARE, EDWARD RICHTMYRE, RACINE, WISCONSIN
************************************************

   vista1868 wrote: --- In ludwigvistalites@yahoogroups.com, "rubywine420"
   wrote:
   >Hi Tim,welcome aboard.Not to many of us left that I see.Will try to
   answer any question.If you look around on the web,you will find a ton
   of information.Note:numbers on badges do not signify anything.They
   are production numbers.They were never tracked according to
   Ludwig.Check the Modern Drummer website as well........they have an
   article about the authenticity of the badges.Good luck and feel free
   to ask away.Sincerely,vista1868.
   > Hi All Members:
   >
   > I am new to the group and look forward to sharing vistalite
   stories,
   > experiences, etc... I recently purchased a vistalite kit and I
   have
   > some questions regarding how to date these. Anyone about??
   Starting
   > to get cold up here in Canada.
   >
   > Tim
   >






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