In a message dated 11/18/2009 6:55:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

>>Being a bit dense in this area, I do recognize the difference  between
"French" and "German" brass, even in American orchestras.
Is  this the kind of difference we should note in  Mahler?<<

What's important, to my mind, isn't that one recognizes a  sound as
"French" or "German" -- the label doesn't particularly matter except to  those
of
us who are in the business of labeling (i.e., somehow involved in the  art or
business of music).

Rather, it's the sense of a sound -- in the case of the brass  -- as being
solid rather than watery (for the horns) or clear and firm rather  than
pressed and tight (for the heavy brass).

And, of course, there's always the implications of "style"  (another
elusive thing). Players who make sounds that are, say, out of character  for a
particular style of writing are also likely to phrase in a way that  doesn't
best serve the music.

Thus, it is perfectly possible to enjoy the sound of an  old-fashioned
French orchestra, or, similarly, of an old-fashioned Russian  orchestra in the
central Austro-German classics. (I still remember a rather  garishly colorful
Brahms 1 under Kondrashin and "Don Quixote" under  Rozhdestvensky, both
released Stateside in the 1970s.)

But the phrasing also tended to be -- well, "strange." (This  was
particularly true of the "Don Quixote," for all Rozhdestvensky's  musicianship.)

Ultimately, as I say, the labels don't matter. It's a matter  of what does
or doesn't appeal to your ears (or soul). We don't have to like the  same
things. But it is good for each of us to know what others are talking  about!

SFV





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Speaking of v. Karajan, does Thielemann do Mahler?


No, he does not. He doesn't like what it does to the sound of his orchestra. ("I
have to spend 3 weeks cleaning it up again.")

Though he was going to conduct M8 in 2011, given that he's the head of the
orchestra that premiered it 100 years ago. But now I don't know if that falls
still within his reign over the MPhil or outside of it.

May I ask why ?
 
Best,
 
George

--- Στις Τετ., 18/11/09, ο/η Joel Lazar <joellazar@...>
έγραψε:


Από: Joel Lazar <joellazar@...>
Θέμα: Re: [Y! Mahler] on WETA: Gustav Mahler - The International Cycle
Broadcasts
Προς: mahler@yahoogroups.com
Ημερομηνία: Τετάρτη, 18 Νοέμβριος 2009, 12:24


Let's hope he [Thielemann] doesn't!

cheers-jl

Malvenuto wrote:
> Jens F. Laurson wrote:
>> Mahler continues...
>>
>> http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1090
>>
>>   
>> *kalblatt12Symphony No.8*, with two grand choral movements, is the odd
>> symphony out, even among Mahler’s already unconventional symphonies; a
>> strange beast which some Mahler-credentialed conductors (Fischer and
>> Haitink, for example) refuse to conduct, or do so reluctantly.
> ===========
> As I have noted many times here (before Jens joined us) Haitink's c. 1988
> live performance of M8 with Tom Hampson is one of the best M8s to my ears.
> It was recorded by a collector off the radio and a colleague of mine, at
> my beseeching, transferred the tape to CD.
>
> Over the years I have certainly noticed that there is no Haitink, no one
> Haitink.
> Probably the same applies to Kubelik.
> The extreme differences between Haitink in one decade and another is enough
> to make one believe that there are different conductors hiding behind a
> made up
> nom de baton (or however one says that in French) Haitink. Obviously a man
> who spends so many years with Mahler (and Bruckner) does not remain the
> same man and whatever he allegedly said about Mahler's oratorio-symphony
> only applies
> to one mask of Haitink.
> In general I find the commonly sold and collected Haitink and Kubelik
> boxes extremely disappointing whereas there are magnificent Haitink
> recordings of Mahler works.
>
> A like case is Berlioz Grande Messe des Morts with Davis. I have long
> found his
> Philips recording totally engaging. I find his Bavarian DVD of the work
> unendurable.
> I find Lenny's DVD of the work overwhelming.
> Speaking of v. Karajan, does Thielemann do Mahler?
> Yoël
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________
> Visit the Yahoo! Mahler Group Website
> http://mahler.list.googlepages.com/home.htm
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/17/09
14:26:00
>


------------------------------------

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Let's hope he [Thielemann] doesn't!

cheers-jl

Malvenuto wrote:
> Jens F. Laurson wrote:
>> Mahler continues...
>>
>> http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1090
>>
>>
>> *kalblatt12Symphony No.8*, with two grand choral movements, is the odd
>> symphony out, even among Mahler�s already unconventional symphonies; a
>> strange beast which some Mahler-credentialed conductors (Fischer and
>> Haitink, for example) refuse to conduct, or do so reluctantly.
> ===========
> As I have noted many times here (before Jens joined us) Haitink's c. 1988
> live performance of M8 with Tom Hampson is one of the best M8s to my ears.
> It was recorded by a collector off the radio and a colleague of mine, at
> my beseeching, transferred the tape to CD.
>
> Over the years I have certainly noticed that there is no Haitink, no one
> Haitink.
> Probably the same applies to Kubelik.
> The extreme differences between Haitink in one decade and another is enough
> to make one believe that there are different conductors hiding behind a
> made up
> nom de baton (or however one says that in French) Haitink. Obviously a man
> who spends so many years with Mahler (and Bruckner) does not remain the
> same man and whatever he allegedly said about Mahler's oratorio-symphony
> only applies
> to one mask of Haitink.
> In general I find the commonly sold and collected Haitink and Kubelik
> boxes extremely disappointing whereas there are magnificent Haitink
> recordings of Mahler works.
>
> A like case is Berlioz Grande Messe des Morts with Davis. I have long
> found his
> Philips recording totally engaging. I find his Bavarian DVD of the work
> unendurable.
> I find Lenny's DVD of the work overwhelming.
> Speaking of v. Karajan, does Thielemann do Mahler?
> Yo�l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________
> Visit the Yahoo! Mahler Group Website
> http://mahler.list.googlepages.com/home.htm
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/17/09
14:26:00
>

Jens F. Laurson wrote:
> Mahler continues...
>
> http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1090
>
>
> *kalblatt12Symphony No.8*, with two grand choral movements, is the odd
> symphony out, even among Mahler�s already unconventional symphonies; a
> strange beast which some Mahler-credentialed conductors (Fischer and
> Haitink, for example) refuse to conduct, or do so reluctantly.
===========
As I have noted many times here (before Jens joined us) Haitink's c. 1988
live performance of M8 with Tom Hampson is one of the best M8s to my ears.
It was recorded by a collector off the radio and a colleague of mine, at
my beseeching, transferred the tape to CD.

Over the years I have certainly noticed that there is no Haitink, no one
Haitink.
Probably the same applies to Kubelik.
The extreme differences between Haitink in one decade and another is enough
to make one believe that there are different conductors hiding behind a
made up
nom de baton (or however one says that in French) Haitink. Obviously a man
who spends so many years with Mahler (and Bruckner) does not remain the
same man and whatever he allegedly said about Mahler's oratorio-symphony
only applies
to one mask of Haitink.
In general I find the commonly sold and collected Haitink and Kubelik
boxes extremely disappointing whereas there are magnificent Haitink
recordings of Mahler works.

A like case is Berlioz Grande Messe des Morts with Davis. I have long
found his
Philips recording totally engaging. I find his Bavarian DVD of the work
unendurable.
I find Lenny's DVD of the work overwhelming.
Speaking of v. Karajan, does Thielemann do Mahler?
Yo�l

bozmikeh wrote:
> ...to the Yahoo! Mahler Group!
>
> The founding anniversary was actually a few days ago...
>
>

Mike and others,
You may be amused by going to the very first posts.
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/mahler/messages/1

Jan 1, 2000, according to the archives, is post #1.
Mostly Massimo.
On Dec. 21, 2000 my first post "Is this group dead".
Thereafter Massimo and I, after abducting some other boards, tried to revive
this group.
The rest, for better and for worse, is history,
Yo�l

More Mahler.

some graphics may not display properly in your e-mail program.

<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1192>
<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1138>http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1192





       Tuesday, 11.17.09, 7:00 pm


     Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.4 (Part 3)
     <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1192>

jfl

This continues Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.4 (Part 2)
<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1157> from Monday, with a discussion of
more �Mahler 4� recordings I particularly cherish.
Gustav_Mahler_4_3

While Mahler�s Forth Symphony is very different from the previous three,
it also constitutes the group of Wunderhorn Symphonies with them, of
which the last three had all included vocal elements. From here on
Mahler set out on a slightly different path and soon had a new source of
delight and suffering entering his life in the form of Alma Mahler, n�e
Schindler.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=8794&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Boulez / Banse / Cleveland (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%208794&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=192048&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Sinopoli / Banse / Dresden StK. (PROFIL H�nssler)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%20192048&source=WETA>

I have just extolled the virtues of recent Mahler Fourth recordings by
David Zinman, Iv�n Fischer, and Michael Tilson Thomas, but if they fail
to elicit more enthusiastic praise from me, it is because they share
with the earlier Haitink recordings and Pierre *Boulez*� (DG) an
missing, indefinable, distinctive quality that goes beyond
exquisiteness. Unlike with the Third Symphony, I am less content with
sheer excellence alone in the Fourth, since the recording catalog offers
so many more choices. Swift Boulez almost gets there, though, because
the Cleveland Orchestra provides him with pronounced and individualist
chatter of instruments that comes, like Bernstein, a little closer to
the aforementioned <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1157> ideal of a
�Concerto for Orchestra�. What does stand out with Boulez is his first
movement, which he zips through at a pace that leaves you bopping along
without your mind ever tempted to wander. Taking only a minute less than
Bruno Walter (who more than makes up for lost time in the last two
movements), he sounds twice as fast. His soprano Juliane Banse is
equally wonderful in the totally different, very
broad *Sinopoli* recording from Dresden (PROFIL H�nssler) where the
Italian adds three minutes to Boulez� 8�44� in �Das himmlische Leben��
with wildly fluctuating tempi. Banse doesn�t sing her quick parts any
slower in Dresden than she does in Cleveland, only her slow parts are
retarded to a point where it must have become challenging for the singer
to maintain the line. It is exaggeration occasionally�well,
regularly�seen in Sinopoli�s Mahler, but one can�t blame him for wanting
to explore the beautifully spacious acoustic and striking sound of the
orchestra both of which come across nicely on the recording.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=126878&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Kletzki / Loose / Philharmonia (EMI)
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B668U4?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000B668U4>

The /gEMIni/ re-issue of Paul *Kletzki*�s Fourth�coupled with his
acclaimed /Lied/�does the EMI remastering-engineers proud: the 1957
sound is far better than one might expect and the performance among the
light ones that please. Paul Kletzky�s wife, Emmy Loose, sings
faultlessly and wonderfully innocently, if without particular
distinction beyond that. Washingtonians with a long memory and therefore
skeptical of such musical Mahler-Fourth / Wife nepotism can be assured
that Loose earns her inclusion in that performance on account of skill,
not wedding band.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=176949&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Haitink / Sch�fer / RCO (RCO Live
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TKODEK?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000TKODEK>SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>)

One Mahler recording issued in 2008 truly stood out among the lot: the
Concertgebouw�s performance of the Fourth Symphony with Bernard*
Haitink* conducting and Christine Sch�fer taking the soprano part. If a
Fourth Symphony can easily be undone by an inappropriate soprano
(Gielen/Whittlesey
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000083ENC/weta909-20>,
Abbado/Fleming
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009YSGJ4/weta909-20>), it
can�t generally be �made� by a great singer. Well, maybe Sch�fer could
actually, because her soprano is simply perfect for �Das himmlische
Leben�. Clarity and beauty of tone are a given with her, but the
innocence, the angelic ring that she believably exudes is exactly what
the symphony (and Mahler) asks for. In theory a treble might be better,
still, but put into practice
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001G9E/weta909-20> it simply
doesn�t work.

Fortunately Sch�fer doesn�t have to rescue anything here, she�s simply
the crowning glory of what is a superb performance. Haitink is generally
short on cutting and acerbic tones in Mahler and long on beauty. So
here. This Fourth Symphony (his fourth commercial recording of it!)
benefits from beauty and suffers not from the absence of tortuous and
biting sounds, as for example the Sixth would. Generous, rich, and yet
transparent, there is plenty of that beauty to go around here. Among his
three live recordings (two with the RCO and one with the Berlin
Philharmonic), this is the one with the quickest pulse. The RCO plays
with near-perfection (this is a true live recording, not patched from
several performances), its usual gorgeousness, and grandeur of sound�all
caught perfectly by the recording engineers. This sumptuous performance
has now replaced Inbal, my previous top choice.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=61290&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Gielen / Whittlesey / South West German RSO (H�nssler)
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000083ENC?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000083ENC>

Michael *Gielen*�s Mahler is more and more becoming a favorite of mine.
Here is a conductor with a modernist perspective of Mahler (like Abbado
and Chailly) who (unlike Abbado and Chailly) can really rip through
these symphonies instead of making them sound �lovely�. There is little
of that �well behaved� sound in his recordings with the South-Western
Radio Symphony Orchestra Baden-Baden. Perhaps because his players are
not as seasoned a Mahler orchestra as areChicago, Vienna, and even
Berlin? His Fourth suffers from the same problem Abbado�s does, though:
Three good movements and then big a let-down from the soprano. Christine
Whittlesey�s problem is not self-conscious artificiality but that she
sounds like the evil witch from one of Brother�s Grimm fairy tales.
You�d think that once she finishes with �Die eng�lischen Stimmen /
Ermuntern die Sinnen, / Da� alles f�r Freuden erwacht� she�ll rush back
home to roast H�nsel. (Gielen�s inclusion of the sublime Schreker
�Prelude to a Drama� probably makes for the best filler on any disc with
the Fourth Symphony, though.)

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=9357&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Chailly / Bonney / RCO (Decca)
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00003ZAL2?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00003ZAL2>

Another wonderful and appropriate filler are the/Seven Early Songs/ by
Berg. The above mentioned Abbado offers them (and here, unlike with
Mahler, Fleming shines)�as does the Ricardo *Chailly *recording with the
Concertgebouw and Barbara Bonney. Like Gielen, the recording can be
difficult to get outside the complete box (Arkiv currently lists it,
actually), which is a shame as neither collections�Gielen�s or
Chailly�s�include any of the �fillers�. Chailly�s Fourth is unwavering
in its forward-momentum� steady and secure like a sewing machine.
Understated, but surreptitiously powerful. The playing (aided by
excellent sound) is three-dimensional. There isn�t a more delicate, more
loving third movement on record. This is a monument to well thought-out
craftsmanship of the highest order.

Many consider the George *Szell* recording (Sony
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000027AJ?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0000027AJ>)
with Judith Raskin one of the finest recordings; inexplicably it has
gone out of print� though thankfully it can now be had as an ArkivMusic
licensed re-print
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=151175&source=WETA> (if
you can�t find the original cheaper on Amazon) and should be heard; it
remains one of the finest in the catalog even after so many years of
strong competition. The same cannot be said of every recording that has
old age on its side. When, after timid discovery, I started listening to
Mahler in earnest, it was usually a Bruno *Walter* recording that I went
with. My first impressions of the First, Second, and Fourth were with
Walter. Such early impressions are usually indelible, but in this case
they have all been dislodged and surpassed. His Fourth (Sony) with the
New York Philharmonic from May of 1945 for example is nice and brisk,
and the less than perfect playing, occasionally sour, can be said to add
lots of character.  (More character, still, comes from the so-so 1945
recording quality!) But it is full of strange touches, too. Take the
first movement, where Walter doesn�t hurry up the introductory
sleigh-bell phrase and consequently has no room or time for a
ritardando. (Boulez almost does the opposite: begins fast and refuses to
slow down.) By not making much of a distinction between �Deliberate� and
�Very leisurely�, it sounds like his sleigh grinds into the snow and
never quite gets going again. For reasons of interpretation and
authority, Walter is always worth coming back to. But if I had only two
or three Mahler Fourths on my shelf, I�d not put up with the technical
limitations this one demands excusing. signature1


             <http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>
             The font used in the title is �Eckmann Regular�

             <http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>


       Mahler 4 Choices

1. Bernard Haitink / Christine Sch�fer, CSO, CSO Resound

2. Eliahu Inbal / Helen Donath, Frankfurt RSO, Denon / Brilliant

3. Paul Kletzki / Emmy Loose, Philharmonia Orchestra, EMI

4. Esa Pekka Salonen / Barbara Hendricks, LA Phil, Sony via Arkiv

5. George Szell / Judith Raskin, Cleveland, Sony via Arkiv

6. Riccardo Chailly / Barbara Bonney, RCO, Decca


         Mahler 4 SACD Choice

Bernard Haitink / Christine Sch�fer, CSO, CSO Resound


[picture removed]





--

*____________*

*/Jens F. Laurson/*

Classical Critic-at-Large
WETA 90.9 FM
Washington D.C.
www.classicalweta.org





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Conductors can also be ideomatic.� Listen to Barenboim's Bruckner,�for example.
�I get the impression�he tries to mold Bruckner into�a Brahms sound.�




________________________________
Stevevasta@...

In a message dated 11/17/2009 6:52:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,�
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

>>The orchestra is not idiomatic?!

I would think that the� strength of a composer is that his works can
transcend the location of the� orchestra,
and be great anywhere, maybe for different� reasons.<<

Sounds good in theory.

But orchestras do have definite "sounds" -- at least,� carefully trained
orchestras do, or used to -- and sometimes their "sound," as� created by their
particular style of playing, doesn't seem to fit certain� different
composers or styles.

To take the matter at hand, I've always found the� Karajan-cultivated
Berlin sound -- and it's still very much the� Karajan-cultivated sound, twenty
years after his death; the styles of bowing and� blowing are being passed on
from older to newer players -- essentially wrong in� Mahler. The soft-edged
attacks and releases; the tendency to blend detail into a� homogeneous,
almost homogenized sonority; the willingness to hold down the brass� -- none of
this seems to suit Mahler's music most of the time, at least to my� ears.

Thus, of all of Karajan's highly touted late-in-life Mahler,� the only
recording I really can enjoy is the M4, where he seems to take some� pains to
_bring out_ the colors rather than homogenizing them.

The Abbado M3 -- which Jens obviously liked considerably� better than I
did! -- is a prime example of "Karajanizing" a score. This wasn't� a score that
Karajan played, but Abbado holds everything down in what I think of� as the
Karajan manner.

Other examples of "unidiomatic" orchestral playing: Ormandy's� Philadelphia
in Wagner (again, homogenized); and French orchestras up till about� 1970
in almost anything not-French. (For the latter, see my MusicWeb review of�
von Matacic's Bruckner Fifth.)

SFV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Being a bit dense in this area, I do recognize the difference between
"French" and "German" brass, even in American orchestras.
Is this the kind of difference we should note in Mahler?

--
"My only secret is you get up early in the morning and you work all
day." - Philip Glass

Douglas L. Love, Database Security Administrator
UMUC Human Resources Information Technology

dlove@...      Phone: 240 684 5539
Mail: 3501 University Blvd. E., Adelphi MD. 20783
Location: University Center Room 312L,
4716 Pontiac St., College Park, MD 20740
Fax: 240 684 5550



________________________________

From: mahler@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mahler@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Stevevasta@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:20 AM
To: mahler@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Y! Mahler] "idiomatic"






In a message dated 11/17/2009 6:52:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mahler%40yahoogroups.com>  writes:

>>The orchestra is not idiomatic?!

I would think that the strength of a composer is that his works can
transcend the location of the orchestra,
and be great anywhere, maybe for different reasons.<<

Sounds good in theory.

But orchestras do have definite "sounds" -- at least, carefully trained
orchestras do, or used to -- and sometimes their "sound," as created by
their
particular style of playing, doesn't seem to fit certain different
composers or styles.

To take the matter at hand, I've always found the Karajan-cultivated
Berlin sound -- and it's still very much the Karajan-cultivated sound,
twenty
years after his death; the styles of bowing and blowing are being passed
on
from older to newer players -- essentially wrong in Mahler. The
soft-edged
attacks and releases; the tendency to blend detail into a homogeneous,
almost homogenized sonority; the willingness to hold down the brass --
none of
this seems to suit Mahler's music most of the time, at least to my ears.

Thus, of all of Karajan's highly touted late-in-life Mahler, the only
recording I really can enjoy is the M4, where he seems to take some
pains to
_bring out_ the colors rather than homogenizing them.

The Abbado M3 -- which Jens obviously liked considerably better than I
did! -- is a prime example of "Karajanizing" a score. This wasn't a
score that
Karajan played, but Abbado holds everything down in what I think of as
the
Karajan manner.

Other examples of "unidiomatic" orchestral playing: Ormandy's
Philadelphia
in Wagner (again, homogenized); and French orchestras up till about 1970

in almost anything not-French. (For the latter, see my MusicWeb review
of
von Matacic's Bruckner Fifth.)

SFV

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How right you are, Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/17/2009 6:52:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

ArkivMusic at least has Salonen available as an ArkivCD
<_http://www.arkivmushttp://www.arkivhttp://www.http://wwhttp:&source=sour_
(http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=21124&source=WETA)
>;

...but I'd not waste the time. Salonen sees no shadows in the  first
movement, for example -- it's an amiable walk in the park. Surely this  ease of
manner shortchanges the darker aspect of the symphony.

SFV




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/17/2009 6:52:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

>>Since the Fourth is a light(er) work,/esprit/ and /joie de vie/  are
important; heft and sumptuous glory can detract. Eliahu *Inbal*  (Denon)
gets lightness and irony right, nor is he afraid of some old  fashioned
portamento. His Frankfurt RSO adds a touch of
flying-by-the-flying-byflying-by-the-<WBR>seats-of-<WBR>their-pants which
the earlier Kubelik recordings did) and Helen Donath is a  near-ideal
soprano for the role. For the longest time—until Bernhard  Haitink’s new
recording came out last year—this was my undisputed first  choice in this
symphony. <<

None of what Jens says about this is inaccurate, to my ears --  although I
find Donath's flutter an acquired taste that I never acquired -- but,  as
with the other installments of this cycle, I find Inbal's approach too
low-key, sometimes even low energy, for the inherent variety of these  scores.

SFV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/17/2009 6:52:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

>>The orchestra is not idiomatic?!

I would think that the  strength of a composer is that his works can
transcend the location of the  orchestra,
and be great anywhere, maybe for different  reasons.<<

Sounds good in theory.

But orchestras do have definite "sounds" -- at least,  carefully trained
orchestras do, or used to -- and sometimes their "sound," as  created by their
particular style of playing, doesn't seem to fit certain  different
composers or styles.

To take the matter at hand, I've always found the  Karajan-cultivated
Berlin sound -- and it's still very much the  Karajan-cultivated sound, twenty
years after his death; the styles of bowing and  blowing are being passed on
from older to newer players -- essentially wrong in  Mahler. The soft-edged
attacks and releases; the tendency to blend detail into a  homogeneous,
almost homogenized sonority; the willingness to hold down the brass  -- none of
this seems to suit Mahler's music most of the time, at least to my  ears.

Thus, of all of Karajan's highly touted late-in-life Mahler,  the only
recording I really can enjoy is the M4, where he seems to take some  pains to
_bring out_ the colors rather than homogenizing them.

The Abbado M3 -- which Jens obviously liked considerably  better than I
did! -- is a prime example of "Karajanizing" a score. This wasn't  a score that
Karajan played, but Abbado holds everything down in what I think of  as the
Karajan manner.

Other examples of "unidiomatic" orchestral playing: Ormandy's  Philadelphia
in Wagner (again, homogenized); and French orchestras up till about  1970
in almost anything not-French. (For the latter, see my MusicWeb review of
von Matacic's Bruckner Fifth.)

SFV





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

...to the Yahoo! Mahler Group!

The founding anniversary was actually a few days ago...

Cheers,

Mike Bosworth

<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1157>

More Mahler.

some graphics may not display properly in your e-mail program.

<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1138>http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1170


Symphony No.4 Part 1 is here:
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1157
<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1170>




       Monday, 11.16.09, 6:00 pm


     Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.4 (Part 2)
     <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1170>

jfl

/This continues Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.4 (Part 1)
<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1157> from Saturday, with a discussion of
more �Mahler 4� recordings I particularly cherish� and some I don�t./

Gustav_Mahler_4_2

Mahler�s Fourth Symphony was begun in a flurry of inspiration during the
last ten, very intensive days of his otherwise miserable 1899 summer
vacation at the Altaussee. The muse beset him so fast and furiously that
he could no longer handle it physically and came down with a
debilitating dizziness.

Apart from a rainy summer and initial difficulties finding the necessary
quiet to compose, there was trouble brewing at the opera house in Vienna
that Mahler was eager to get away from and reluctant to return to. And
with his vacation over, he worried whether he could pick up with the
symphony where he had to leave it. Henri-Louis de La Grange speaks of
�torment� from which this symphony arose, which leads the author to the
�astonished observation� that the Fourth is so �delightfully carefree�,
a �lyrical intermezzo among his other� tragic symphonies�.

This might suggest that Mahler, like Mozart, was able to compose the
cheeriest music under the dourest of circumstances and vice versa.
Certainly the darkest, the Sixth, Symphony, composed when everything
seemed to go well in Mahler�s life, seems to suggest so much. But for
that the trouble surrounding and preceding the Fourth Symphony�s
beginnings was probably too superficial to really bother Mahler, whose
�talent for suffering� (Haitink) would otherwise have made sure to
express it either here or in �Revelge�, the Wunderhorn-Lied that he
drafted a few weeks earlier.


             Nowhere in this symphony� will there be a single /fortissimo/.

Later that summer, Mahler prospected and eventually found
the�almost�ideal spot for his summer getaway in Maiernigg at the
W�rthersee. It would have to, and did, include a location for his
isolated little composing-hut, the famous �/H�uschen/� that he from now
on created his symphonies in. He ordered it built and it was ready in
time (the villa itself wasn�t yet) to serve him the next summer when he
returned to Maiernigg to finish the Fourth Symphony. The composition had
been out of his mind during the work year, but now Mahler found that
completion came surprisingly easy and quite naturally to him, as if he
had sub-consciously (the term didn�t exist then) worked it out in the
time since last jotting down the sketches.

This is also where he told Natalie Bauer-Lechner that the slow movement
now called �Ruhevoll. Poco adagio� �almost had a religious and catholic
atmosphere� Neither in this movement nor anywhere else in the symphony,
in accordance with its subject, will there be a single fortissimo. Those
who accuse me of always taking recourse to grandiose gestures will be
astonished��

There /is/ something religious about this Adagio (Mahler had also called
�the smile of St. Ursula� and likened to his mother�s face as she smiled
through her tears). Its serene quality is that of a smile unsmiled, the
calm and gentle resignation in good hope of better things to come. Just
yesterday I listened to that movement, soft as spring dew on a daisy
(with Daniele Gatti, RCA
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000026CBF?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000026CBF>),
when I heard a child crying inconsolably outside. It felt as though the
symphony wanted to wrap its arms around the child in comfort while
letting it continue to cry, knowing that tears are sometimes necessary.

Komponierhaeusschen_Mahler_Koscher
Mahler�s Komponierh�uschen in Maiernigg
Photo � Koscher
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=124757&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Abbado / Fleming / BPh (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%20124757&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=4047&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Bernstein / boy soprano / RCO (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%204047&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=3652&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Bernstein / Grist / NYP (Sony)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%203652&source=WETA>

The last movement�the Wunderhorn lied �Das himmlische Leben� that was
supposed to the the finale of the Third Symphony�and the choice of
singer are very important for the success of this symphony. Most
listeners would agree that a light, clear voice with earnest
innocence�as Mahler demands�is best suited. Artificial theatricality or
self-conscious beauty (courtesy of Ren�e Fleming) can undo three good
movements as in Claudio*Abbado*�s recent Berlin recording
(DG). *Bernstein*opted for the logical extension of the voice�s angelic
profile in his last recording with the Concertgebouw and chose a boy
soprano from the/T�lzer Knabenchor/. It�s perfect for the character of
the song but the music is difficult and strenuous and the voice should
ideally be bigger and more secure. A noble failure. In the very colorful
New York recording, Reri Grist�s strangely boyish voice is an acquired
taste.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=91309&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Inbal / Donath / Frankfurt RSO
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000034N6?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0000034N6> (Denon
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000034N6?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0000034N6> / Brilliant
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=91309&source=WETA>)
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=8633>
/Symphony No.4/, Maazel / Kathleen Battle / WPh (Sony)
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000026PQ?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0000026PQ>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=21124&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Salonen / Hendricks / LA Phil (Sony)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%2021124&source=WETA>

Since the Fourth is a light(er) work,/esprit/ and /joie de vie/ are
important; heft and sumptuous glory can detract. Eliahu *Inbal* (Denon)
gets lightness and irony right, nor is he afraid of some old fashioned
portamento. His Frankfurt RSO adds a touch of
flying-by-the-seats-of-their-pants which adds character (like some of
the earlier Kubelik recordings did) and Helen Donath is a near-ideal
soprano for the role. For the longest time�until Bernhard Haitink�s new
recording came out last year�this was my undisputed first choice in this
symphony. *Maazel* (CBS/Sony) and *Salonen*(Sony), for better or worse,
reign over more overtly splendid orchestras, the Vienna Philharmonic and
the L.A. Philharmonic, respectively. Both have exquisite light sopranos:
Maazel the young Kathleen Battle; Salonen, Barbara Hendricks�and both
are superb accounts for it. Salonen relaxes the third movement (all four
are �slow movements�, really) as much as this symphony can take without
becoming unduly ponderous. Both, Maazel and Salonen, were in my original
recommended-list, but Sony has taken them out of their lineup.
ArkivMusic at least has Salonen available as an ArkivCD
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=21124&source=WETA>;
Maazel is easily had on Amazon. For now.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=92769&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Salonen / Hendricks / LA Phil (Sony)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%2092769&source=WETA>

Perhaps that�s an East coast thing: Michael*Tilson Thomas* (SFS
Media,SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>) does the
same thing with the San Francisco Symphony: aided by some of the most
refined, gentlest string sound�and only at such sound can this
successfully pulled off�does he span the movement over an astonishing 26
minutes. (The average is a little over 21 minutes, Kondrashin and Walter
have it over and done with in under 18.) With him the music seems to be
taking a deep, natural breath after each phrase. No real complaints
about his soprano, Laura Claycomb, but nothing to write home about, or
lift this glorious performance far above the mass of other wonderful
performances.

The opposite is true for Michaela Kaune, who sings on the recording of
Zdene(k*M�cal* with the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra (Exton
<http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001B3HDJ6?ie=UTF8&tag=jlaurson-21&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1638&creative=19454&creativeASIN=B001B3HDJ6>,SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>). I
assume her slurring of the opening notes are an interpretive choice, but
even if they weren�t, Kaune isn�t special for precision or refinement
but for the intriguing character of her voice that makes my ears perk. I
can�t even tell whether I like it or not (perhaps not), but it adds an
extraordinary�is it reedy?�quality to the /Lied/.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=188278&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Zinman / Orgon�ov� / ZTO (RCA)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%20188278&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=213642&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Fischer / Persson / BFO (Channel)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%20213642&source=WETA>

Recent additions are David *Zinman* (RCA,SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>) with
Luba Orgon�ov� and Iv�n *Fischer* (Channel,SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>) with
Miah Persson, both of which are lovely, played roughly along the
interpretative mainstream with similar timings. Fischer�s Miah Persson
is more child than angel; her innocence is a playful one with more
�sandbox� than apotheosis. Fischer�s slow movement. Orgon�ov� is a
little like Claycomb: not disturbing, not ideal. Amid the Tonhalle
Orchestra�s muted colors in the slow movement, Zinman micromanages the
dynamics with extreme care and precision, which he does without
disturbing the all important flow. Fischer, with distant sounding
strings, conjures a wistfulness one might feel at the sun disappearing
behind the rolling hills. Both are distinguished by nuance and
especially Fischer by the subtle Easter European lilt he so
appropriately sneaks into the finer rhythmic details. It�s almost as if
no unsatisfactory recordings of this symphony were produced anymore.

(/Continued tomorrow/)


             <http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>
             The font used in the title is �ITC Souvenier Light�

<http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>





--

*____________*

*/Jens F. Laurson/*

Classical Critic-at-Large
WETA 90.9 FM
Washington D.C.
www.classicalweta.org






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the message.

I already own the 1996 book you have mentioned; in fact, it is information in
this book which partly prompted my original post.  On pages 178-9, roughly
translated, the late Vladimir Karbusicky writes:

"On July 6, 1948 [Alfred Mathis-Rosenzweig] wrote a long letter to
Foerster...and provided him with a detailed questionnaire (six pages...) related
to Foerster's "Poutnik v Hamburku" ["Der Pilger in Hamburg"]...he dealt first
with the sources of inspiration for [Mahler's] Third, as perceived by Foerster. 
The 89-year old Foerster answered him with highly informative additional
details...(a complete publication of this until now unknown document will be
prepared)."

In a later, 1999 article by Karbusicky (a revised version of which appears in
the 2005 book "Perspectives on Gustav Mahler"), he notes that Rosenzweig's
'questionnaire no. 1' had a total of 11 questions and that Foerster's reply was
acknowledged by Rosenzweig in a letter dated 22 August 1948.

Two years ago an English translation of Mathis-Rosenzweig's unfinished Mahler
biography appeared under the title "Gustav Mahler: New Insights into his Life,
Times, and Work.  (ed. Jeremy Barham, Guildhall School/Ashgate, 2007)".  In the
introduction to this book, Barham writes that "...shortly before his death [in
Dec 1948], Rosenzweig was known to have been in correspondence with Josef
Bohuslav Foerster (1859-1951), the Czech composer and close friend of Mahler
during his Hamburg and Vienna years, in order to solicit further information for
the study."  Rosenzweig's study as published ends with a chapter on Mahler's
time in Kassel (1883-85), and Barham does not make any mention of having seen
Foerster's completed questionnaire about the later Hamburg years among
Rosenzweig's papers.

Since Karbusicky in 1996, 1999, and 2005 continued to assert the existence of
Foerster's completed questionnaire, the question is where is the manuscript
currently located?  Since Barham does not mention it or include it in the
edition he edited in 2007, I must assume that the copy once in London has gone
missing.  My hope is that perhaps there is still a copy in Prague among
Foester's as yet unpublished papers.

Mike Bosworth


--- In mahler@yahoogroups.com, Society Risk <risksociety@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings Mr Bosworth. In the light of your comments, perhaps this publication
might interest you:
>
> Mahler in Hamburg : Chronik einer Freundschaft
> by Vladimír Karbusický
> Book : Biography
> Language: German
> Publisher: Hamburg : von Bockel Verlag, 1996
>
> http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/35841326&referer=brief_results
>
> Best wishes.
>
>
> --- On Sun, 18/10/09, bozmikeh <bozmikeh@...> wrote:
>
> From: bozmikeh <bozmikeh@...>
> Subject: [Y! Mahler] Re: Special Invitation: J.B. Foerster Symposium (13-15
Nov 2009)
> To: mahler@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, 18 October, 2009, 13:07
>
> This sounds interesting, particularly the work being done to catalogue the
various documents in Foerster's estate. I believe that there are some as yet
unpublished materials relating to Mahler. These may include a draft of the
questionnaire (a six-page "Fragenkatlog" on Mahler's time in Hamburg) that
Foerster completed for the scholar Alfred-Mathis Rosenzweig shortly after World
War II.
>
> Mike Bosworth
>

The orchestra is not idiomatic?!

I would think that the strength of a composer is that his works can
transcend the location of the orchestra,
and be great anywhere, maybe for different reasons.


--
"My only secret is you get up early in the morning and you work all
day." - Philip Glass

Douglas L. Love, Database Security Administrator
UMUC Human Resources Information Technology

dlove@...      Phone: 240 684 5539
Mail: 3501 University Blvd. E., Adelphi MD. 20783
Location: University Center Room 312L,
4716 Pontiac St., College Park, MD 20740
Fax: 240 684 5550



________________________________

From: mahler@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mahler@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Stevevasta@...
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 9:12 AM
To: mahler@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Y! Mahler] Re: Mahler by Barbirolli in Testament.






In a message dated 11/16/2009 7:02:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com <mailto:mahler%40yahoogroups.com>  writes:

There are a few Testament discs of Mahler symphonies with Sir John
Barbirolli conducting the BPO. Nr. 2, 3 6 and 9, I think.

I am very intrigued by them, as I have read very positive comments on
them
and very negative ones as well (mainly that the orchestra is not
idiomatic).. Is this really so ?

I've not heard the Testament issues, so I can't speak to them directly.

I did hear the (probably inferior) Hunt transfer of (I believe) M2
conducted by Barbirolli. I'd say it was not a great occasion for either
conductor
or orchestra. (And, while I don't find the Karajan-trained Berlin sound
idiomatic for Mahler, that didn't strike me as a particular concern
here.)

FWIW, I didn't like Barbirolli's M3 on BBC Legends, so I'd not go out of

my way to dig up the Berlin one.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/16/2009 7:02:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

There  are a few Testament discs of Mahler symphonies with  Sir John
Barbirolli  conducting the BPO.  Nr. 2, 3 6 and 9, I think.

I am very  intrigued by them, as I have read very positive comments on them
and very  negative ones as well (mainly that the orchestra is not
idiomatic)..  Is  this really so ?

I've not heard the Testament issues, so I can't speak to them  directly.

I did hear the (probably inferior) Hunt transfer of (I  believe) M2
conducted by Barbirolli. I'd say it was not a great occasion for  either
conductor
or orchestra. (And, while I don't find the Karajan-trained  Berlin sound
idiomatic for Mahler, that didn't strike me as a particular concern  here.)

FWIW, I didn't like Barbirolli's M3 on BBC Legends, so I'd not  go out of
my way to dig up the Berlin one.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There are a few Testament discs of Mahler symphonies with� Sir John Barbirolli
conducting the BPO.� Nr. 2, 3 6 and 9, I think.
�
I am very intrigued by them, as I have read very positive comments on them and
very negative ones as well (mainly that the orchestra is not idiomatic)..� Is
this really so ?
�
best,
�
Oscar.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/15/2009 6:51:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

Zubin  *Mehta*s L.A. Philharmonic recording is hisother
<_http://www.weta.http://www.http://_ (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1103)
>  great Mahler on disc:

Again I must disagree. The engineering is brilliant, but Mehta  himself
serves up an incredibly labored reading of the first movement -- it  feels long
and discursive (which, of course, it is), but disjointed as well  (which it
shouldn't be).

Mehta, although much derided by commentators, did have good  basic musical
instincts, and they show to far better effect in his remake of  this
symphony with the Israel Philharmonic (Sony). That erratic orchestra is at  its
best here, and the tempi flow more naturally (save in the "bimm-bamm"
movement, which is ridiculously rushed in both accounts).

SFV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/15/2009 6:51:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

The  one recording I might esteem more than Pierre Boulez (mentioned
yesterday  <_http://www.weta.http://www.http://_
(http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1120) >)  is Claudio*Abbado*)
most recent recording from Berlin (DG). After the  Seventh, this is
surely his best recording from what might be a new, live
cycle-in-the-cycle-in-the-<WBR>making. Atmosphere in spades, warm, passionat
conducting, a mezzo with low notes to die for in Anna Larsson

I'll gladly second your enthusiasm for Larsson, one of the few  true
contraltos -- or, at least, one of the few identified as such -- working  the
concert platform today. It's a beautiful, lustrous voice that maneuvers  easily,
and she uses it to great musical and expressive purpose -- quite the
opposite of the stereotyped "oratorio contralto" (stiff and hooty, usually with
no high notes).

But the Abbado performance -- oh my gosh. I think, honestly,  it's one of
the worst I've heard. Yes, the conductor's attention to the soft  dynamics is
commendable in principle -- there are a lot more pianos and  pianissimos in
this score than people realize. But it doesn't make sense to hold
_everything_ down in volume, _including the themes_ -- you need to bring them 
out
so the music has a sense of texture. As it is, Abbado's performance is both
monochromatic and uninteresting, especially in the first movement (which
shouldn't have that problem!).

Since I don't care for the Boulez, either -- I found his  Adagio too
offhand -- I suspect we simply "come at" this symphony very  differently.

The only performance I've heard to rival the Horenstein is the
Haitink/Berlin -- a dramatic, colorful, and far livelier performance than that
conductor's scrupulous but square Amsterdam recording.

SFV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

More Mahler.

some graphics may not display properly in your e-mail program.

<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1138>http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1138





       Friday, 11.13.09, 4:00 pm


     Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.3 (Part 2)
     <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1138>

jfl

Gustav_Mahler_3_2

/This continues /Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.3 (Part 1)
<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1120> /from Thursday, with a discussion
of more �Mahler 3� recordings I particularly cherish./

Mahler wrote his Third Symphony in the summers of 1895 and 1896�having
become the �summer composer� only two years before, while finishing the
Second Symphony. Unwilling to see himself only as a conductor and opera
director rather than a composer, he compared himself to what the great
composers before him had achievee at his age (then about 35), and
realized that he needed to get cracking.

The Third wasn�t premiered until after the Fourth�1902 in Krefeld at the
38^th annual festival of the /Allgemeiner Deutscher Musikverein/ (the
General German Music Association founded by Franz Liszt to promote the
�New German School� of music). For one, it is even more unwieldy than
the Second Symphony before. And the Berlin critics had called Mahler a
lunatic, after hearing three excerpted movements a few years earlier,
which might not have helped, either. The work is scored for
quadruple-everything: flutes, oboes, bassoons, trumpets, trombones and
five clarinets, eight horns, two harps, a huge percussion section, alto
soloist, women�s choir, boys� choir, and more strings than most
orchestras could muster. The final Adagio alone, never mind the massive
35 minute first movement alone, is longer than most Haydn symphonies.

It also took so long to get the Third Symphony premiered, because this
time around Mahler was not making any compromises. The premiere had to
be perfect, or not take place at all. He had to conduct, and he had to
get as much rehearsal time as necessary. He wrote Richard Strauss, who,
in his position as head of the/Allgemeiner Deutscher
Musikverein/ organized the concert and overcame any and all doubts
(Mahler�s Fourth had flopped, too), material and financial obstacles to
get Mahler all he needed.

When it finally was mounted, under the critical and intrigued eyes and
ears of his colleagues (apart from Strauss, there were, among others,
Eugen D�Albert, Leo Blech, Hermann Bischoff, Max Reger, Felix
Weingartner and Hugo Wolf), the whole symphony was a�literally, one
might add�smashing, popular success. The orchestra, having overcome its
skepticism about this newfangled music, ended up exceeding Mahler�s
expectations, and he liked the trombonist so much, he poached him for
his Vienna opera orchestra.

The symphony itself, with its mix of texts�a Nietzsche poem and
folksy/Wunderhorn/-lyrics�offers endless opportunity to wonder what
exactly Mahler had intended. But since Mahler �remain[s] fundamentally
opposed to all analyses� good or bad� because �no one can help the
audience [which can only help itself] by listening again and again and
by reading [the score] again and again�, it might be wise to heed his
advice and not analyze, or �understand�, but listen and then perhaps to
�get it�, on an emotional level.

<http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=53364&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Abbado / BPh (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%2053364&source=WETA>

The one recording I might esteem more than Pierre Boulez� (mentioned
yesterday <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1120>) is Claudio*Abbado*�s
most recent recording from Berlin (DG). After the Seventh, this is
surely his best recording from what might be a new, live
cycle-in-the-making. Atmosphere in spades, warm, passionate playing and
conducting, a mezzo with low notes to die for in Anna Larsson
(altogether a much earthier animal than von Otter): it is abundantly
clear by the end of this performance why the Berlin audience sits in
stunned awe before it dare starts applauding. One of the most regularly
amusing CD critics has called this a �dismal, wretchedly recorded (live)
approximation of Mahler�s Third Symphony�, which should not really keep
you from exploring it.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=6669&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Salonen / LAPhil (Sony)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%206669&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=51460&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Kubelik / BRSO (Audite)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%2051460&source=WETA>

Similar reasons make Esa Pekka *Salonen*�s LA Philharmonic recording
from 1997 (Sony, liner notes by Tim Page) so attractive. Anna Larsson is
a joy to listen to in �Oh Mensch�, Zarathustra�s �Midnight song� by
Nietzsche. The sumptuous, clean performance is about as well played as
Chailly�s Concertgebouw recording (and as well recorded), but as
mentioned, I have found the latter to be clinically detached, despite
the superb sound and all the positive reviews heaped on it. *Kubelik*�s
live recording from April 20^th  1967 on Audite is a very moving
performance�the gingerly played high trumpet notes in
the /Wunderhorn/-referencing Scherzando of the third movement are just
(barely, but still) on the right side of dread and accuracy: Appropriate
for the grotesquerie of a bucolic postcard-version of nature and the
mockery that the animals make of it (�Oxen, taking each other by the
hoofs, in a triumphal ring-a-ring-o� roses� , Adorno).

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=2271&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Mehta / LAPhil (Decca)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%202271&source=WETA>

Zubin *Mehta*�s L.A. Philharmonic recording is hisother
<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1103> great Mahler on disc: vigorous
(Mahler does demand �/Kr�ftig/�), even brutal the opening; with extremes
accentuated and an element of dread with which Pan is initially being
woken. The lighter episodes are sprinkled in between. Valery*Gergiev*,
whose Mahler (LSO Live
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=206641>, SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>) is short
on idiom and manages to be speedy and occasionally coarse without
generating any excitement, turns in a fine Third with a surprisingly
tender finale. Then again, no one has yet managed to make that last
movement anything but tender.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=92772&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Tilson Thomas / SFS (SFS Media)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%2092772&source=WETA>

But trying to look for what�s great about Gergiev�s Mahler (and finding
a thing or two to cling to) just can�t compare to *Michael Tilson
Thomas*� 2002 effectual recording (SFS Media SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20> ) with
Michelle DeYoung which establishes very naturally, immediately, that
there is greatness at work. A superbly gripping and detailed first and
third movement, a moving, moaning /Misterioso/ fourth movement, a
superbly singing chorus marvelously caught by the engineers, and a
heart-wrenchingly affectionate finale. It�s easily enough for me to rank
among the best, and possibly ahead of Salonen, Mehta, and Kubelik. That
it also contains DeYoung�s account of the /Kindertotenlieder/ only makes
the two-SACD set more attractive. A Grammy nomination for once fully
deserved.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=168843&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Haitink / CSO (CSO Resound)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%20168843&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=175480&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Zinman / Zurich TO (RCA)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%20175480&source=WETA>

If MTT�s SACD version is surpassed by a recent recording at all, it�s
not *Haitink*, and the CSO (CSO Resound SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>, his
debut performance as CSO principal conductor)�touching, although it is
played with sincerity, honest passion, and consummate skill. The soloist
is also DeYoung. Instead I�d chose David *Zinman*�s Zurich recording
(RCA SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000GPIBOG/weta909-20>); the
best from his cycle, so far. Both Haitink and Zinman take an understated
approach, but the soft hues that elsewhere hamper Zinman�s Mahler from
really taking off are applied to greatly moving effect here. His soloist
Birgit Remmert is a little dusky, a good fit to the plangent English
horn of Martin Frutiger. A symphony with a finale like the Third does
not need to be performed-to-impress to bring out the desired, awed effect.


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             The font used in the title is �Hobo Medium�

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--

*____________*

*/Jens F. Laurson/*

Classical Critic-at-Large
WETA 90.9 FM
Washington D.C.
www.classicalweta.org







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings Mr Bosworth. In the light of your comments, perhaps this publication
might interest you:

Mahler in Hamburg : Chronik einer Freundschaft
by Vladimír Karbusický
Book : Biography
Language: German
Publisher: Hamburg : von Bockel Verlag, 1996

http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/35841326&referer=brief_results

Best wishes.


--- On Sun, 18/10/09, bozmikeh <bozmikeh@...> wrote:

From: bozmikeh <bozmikeh@...>
Subject: [Y! Mahler] Re: Special Invitation: J.B. Foerster Symposium (13-15 Nov
2009)
To: mahler@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 18 October, 2009, 13:07

This sounds interesting, particularly the work being done to catalogue the
various documents in Foerster's estate. I believe that there are some as yet
unpublished materials relating to Mahler. These may include a draft of the
questionnaire (a six-page "Fragenkatlog" on Mahler's time in Hamburg) that
Foerster completed for the scholar Alfred-Mathis Rosenzweig shortly after World
War II.

Mike Bosworth

Stevevasta@... wrote
> To me, it's the Finale that wrecks Walter's Columbia Symphony M1 --
> precisely because of what I hear as sluggish rhythmic projection,
> and an overall lack of energy in the turbulent (first) theme-group!
> I've always assumed this was the result of his advancing age --
> and I'm afraid I don't find the first movement of his NYP
> "Resurrection" (recorded after, or during, a series of concerts with
> the orchestra)
> any more convincing, for the same reasons.
>
>
>
  Inasmuch as there is a renowned Walter M2 from ten years earlier with the
Wiener Philharmoniker (and in Vincent Mouret's lists other off-the-air
ones which I have not heard) and likewise various earlier M1s, it would
seem to me that
it is methodologically unsatisfying to speculate on age without
comparing his earlier performances (with other orchestras and soloists).
YLA
> ------------------------------------
>
> ___________________________________________
> Visit the Yahoo! Mahler Group Website
> http://mahler.list.googlepages.com/home.htm
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

More Mahler.

some graphics may not display properly in your e-mail program.

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1120



       Thursday, 11.12.09, 6:00 am



     Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.3 (Part 1)
     <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1120>


jfl

Gustav_Mahler_3_1

The Third Symphony, Mahler�s longest, has sublime moments and plenty of
them, but it can be difficult to find your way to�and around�it: Its
quilt of music is complicated and never just straight forward and
clear-cut. It has two large outer movements around four smaller
movements�the first movement alone takes over half an hour. In my
traversing Mahler, only the Seventh was more stubborn in opening itself
up to me. The titles that Mahler originally gave the movements, only to
withdraw them later, don�t offer much help. But the fear that knowing
these titles might lead to misunderstanding the symphony is no longer
given either, so there is no harm in listing them:

Sy_3_Titles

The symphony itself had two working titles before Mahler opted for
employing neither: �The happy life�A Summer-Morning�s Dream� (in German
even more clearly a riff on Shakespeare�s �Midsummer Night�s Dream�,
though Mahler denied any connection to it) was one. Later Mahler chose
the Nietzschean title �The Gay Science�. That Michael Gielen likens the
Mahler Third to Robert Musil�s novel �The Man Without Qualities� is
gratifying to read. I love Musil�s novel about�essentially�/nothing/,
and I�d never claim to understand it, either. The feeling of being
removed from life and the world that Mahler expresses in the /R�ckert
Lied/ �Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen� applies very well here.

The Third Symphony as a kind of mental refuge (because in his everyday
life, Mahler was everything /but/ removed from the world�in fact, he was
very much in its midst, with all the bustle, stress, anxiety, and little
triumphs) is an appealing image. Like many Nietzsche aphorisms or the
Georg Trakl poem that Gielen also quotes in his liner notes, much of the
Third is �flavor��which you either relate to, or not. This relation�to a
time, a mental state, a social setting, a mood�can only be made possible
to an outsider (someone who has not had similar experiences, lived
similar moods, never known a similar social environment) through music.
The movement titles may therefore provide answers to intellectual
questions we have, but cannot achieve to evoke any feelings that the
music can�t rouse. Which is also what Mahler said (in a letter to Max
Kalbeck about his First Symphony): �No music is worth anything if first
you have to tell the listener what experience lies behind it.�

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=62496&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, P.Boulez / A.S.v.Otter / WPh (DG)
<//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008GQTR/weta909-20>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=87899&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3 (& Bach Suite, orch. Mahler)/, R.Chailly / P.Lang / RCO
(Decca) <//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001RBVM8/weta909-20>

What did the job of giving me access to this symphony, eventually, was
the combined glory of the Vienna Philharmonic, Anne Sofie von Otter (!),
and Pierre*Boulez*: A recording of stunning clarity, von Otter�s silvery
voice ethereally high (almost soprano-like), superb playing and
attention paid to every detail. Boulez is lifting the rug for you in
this symphony and lets you have a peek at what it is all about. He does
the same in the Seventh, too, but with the Third that approach holds up
even better to return visits, no matter how well you understand or like
the symphony. I found his recording more enchanting and more involving
than the much acclaimed *Chailly*/ Concertgebouw recording with Petra
Lang that came out in 2004. The latter is impressive, as all of
Chailly�s Mahler is, for the impeccable playing in a great acoustic in
wonderful sound. But Boulez offers that, too, in this case�and counter
to the usual and tired stereotypes against the Frenchman, he is not
devoid of emotion, even for all his admitted clarity and detailed
structure. In my initial review, I have called it haunting and
subversive. I�ll stick with that. Only a tiny editing glitch in the
third movement ruptures the sense of perfection on this issue.

Sy_3_Text

/(continued tomorrow)/


             <http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>
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/
/

//
International-Cycle


         Today in Mahler:

Symphony No.8. At 9:06AM a teaser in form of the /Gloria/, with Valery
Gergiev and the LSO (LSO Live). Then at 9PM the performance with Claudio
Abbado and the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (DG).





--

*____________*

*/Jens F. Laurson/*

Classical Critic-at-Large
WETA 90.9 FM
Washington D.C.
www.classicalweta.org






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/11/2009 6:46:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

>>Before Zubin *Mehta* became an indiscriminate conductor of  commercial
schlock he was a young, fiery Indian, out to take the world of  classical
music by storm. Including Vienna, where he made one of his few  truly
great recordings: a Mahler Second that still stands the test of  time. <<

The assessment of Mehta is perhaps rather cruel.

But I agree that this Second is very fine. I'd place his early  Bruckner
Ninth, also with the VPO, alongside it -- if you like a broad reading,  this
one is gorgeous.

SFV





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/11/2009 6:46:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

>>MahlerSeji *Ozawa*. Not from his Boston
Cycle (none of  which is currently available in the U.S., anywaya shame
in the case of the  Second, Fifth and Eighth) but from a concert with his
Japanese Saito Kinen  Orchestra. <<

I always felt like the Ozawa/Boston cycle was more or less a  mistake --
there was no particular reason for this conductor to record _all_ the
symphonies, really.

That said, I agree with Jens's assessment of the Fifth --  surprisingly
lively, alert, and colorful -- and Eighth. But not with the Second,  which
seemed to me rather generalized and lacking in point. (The soloists -- Te
Kanawa and Horne -- don't show at their best -- Horne was better for Abbado --
and they weren't the soloists at the Ozawa/BSO concerts anyway: those were
Edith  Wiens and Maureen Forrester.)

I've heard marvelous things about the Saito Kinen performance,  and got a
copy during its brief availability, but haven't heard it  yet.

SFV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

More Mahler





       Tuesday, 11.10.09, 12:00 pm


     Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.2 (Part 2)
     <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1103>

by Jens F. Laurson

/This continues /Gustav Mahler � Symphony No.2 (Part 1)
<http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1063> /from Sunday, with a discussion of
more �Mahler 2� recordings I particularly cherish and some that I don�t./

Gustav_Mahler_2_2

The early performances of Mahler�s Second Symphony were always a
success, which must have been relieve and comfort after his First��it is
and always will be my child of sorrow��continued to be harangued as, for
example, a �conglomeration of nervous impressions�. (That was after the
1899 Dresden performance and, although part of a thoroughly negative
review in the /Dresdner Nachrichten/, the characterization actually
rings true for the First and several subsequent Mahler symphonies.)

Around the same time, a Sylvain Dupuis championed the Second Symphony in
Li�ge with his �mediocre and choppy� (Mahler) orchestra. When Mahler
came to conduct a performance himself, he had to re-arrange the
orchestration to accommodate the lack of bass tubas, contrabassoons, and
five-stringed double basses. He didn�t like the experience, but he was
hardly above making any host of changes to get his works performed at
all. Following the performance, on critic (/Gazette de Li�ge/) called it
the �most masterly work of its kind since Mendelssohn [sic!]�. Perhaps
the writer was fresh under the impression of Mendelssohn�s Second
Symphony, but surely this was the only time  a Mahler symphony has been
likened to one of Felix�. What follows are empty phrases of exaltation
that mean nothing. Much more perceptive and articulate are two slightly
more critical reviews. One points out that the symphony was audibly �the
work of a sceptic [, a] vast poem of life [that] exalts fatality [and] a
joy which is lacking abandonment or confidence� The work seems to be
analyzing itself��. The other finds it an �uneven work� very beautiful
in parts, weak in others. One is to aware of effort, of its desire to be
original�� Whether you love the Second Symphony or not, both statements
ring true of Mahler in general and the work in particular.

After the Mahler-conducted Munich performance, another critical
review�Henri-Louis de La Grange calls the author Rudolf Louis a
convinced anti-Semite�gets the essence of the Symphony surprisingly
right when he attests that Mahler�s dynamic and fiery temperament
rendered the musical language captivating� and compelled the audience�
to �surrender unconditionally to the composer�� and that the audience
found itself �overwhelmed rather than convinced�. The difference is that
today, audiences are both.

Mahler prepared that Munich performance of the Second Symphony in 1900,
although not with the Mahler-championing Kaim Orchestra (the Munich
Philharmonic-to-be, which at the time was lead by Felix Weingartner),
but in this case by the �Munich Society for Modern Composition�,
formerly the Hugo Wolf Fan Club. This time he had to deal with small
string sections and added a clarinet to a section of the chorus, to
support the shaky tenors. After the performance, concerned about
sufficient contrast between movements, Mahler still toyed with the idea
of placing the Scherzo second. He didn�t, because the Andante would have
been too similar in mood with the following�/Urlicht/�movement. In the
case of this symphony, that is not too important� but it is helpful in
remembering that �finished� symphonies are not works necessarily cast in
stone the way we know them. More about that when we reach Sixth Symphony.

Also for the Munich performance, Mahler demanded for the contralto part
a �voice and expression of a child, since I myself, when I heard the
tinkling of a small bell, imagined the soul to be in heaven where it
will have to start afresh� as a small child.� That sounds similar to his
demands for the soprano in the Fourth Symphony, but who could possibly
imagine the low part of /Urlicht/ to be at all child-like? Maybe the
young Christa Ludwig (Mehta) comes close.

<http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=3329&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.2/, S.Ozawa / Stutzmann & Suga / Saito Kinen FO (Sony)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000054OXK/weta909-20>

White-hot intensity is achieved by�it may come as a surprise to those
who know him as a purveyor of polished, �politically correct� rather
than emotionally drenched, Mahler�Seji *Ozawa*. Not from his Boston
Cycle (none of which is currently available in the U.S., anyway�a shame
in the case of the Second, Fifth and Eighth) but from a concert with his
Japanese Saito Kinen Orchestra. (The orchestra�s first clarinet, by the
way, is Karl Leister.) Emiko Suga (soprano) and Nathalie Stutzmann
(alto), his soloists, are good if not necessarily outstanding; the choir
is extraordinarily precise. But it is the orchestra and the conducting
that really shine: These players seem to understand exactly what Ozawa
wants�and what begins a very relaxed and loose performance,
unnoticeably, surreptitiously ratchets its way up to an emotional force
second to none. Ozawa vacillates between calm beauty and searing,
roaring moments. His second movement has a gentle flow to it that exudes
peace and/Gem�tlichkeit/� very apt for a movement with the instructions
�Sehr gem�chlich. Nie eilen� (�Very gingerly paced. Never rushed�).
His /Urlicht/ emerges from the depths like it should. Even where the
entire last movement does not quite soar as with Boulez, the finale is
riveting.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=457&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.2/, Z.Mehta / Ludwig & Cotrubas / WPh (Decca)
<//www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004TEUZ/weta909-20>

Before Zubin *Mehta* became an indiscriminate conductor of commercial
schlock he was a young, fiery Indian, out to take the world of classical
music by storm. Including Vienna, where he made one of his few truly
great recordings: a Mahler Second that still stands the test of time.
A /beautiful/ performance with Christa Ludwig and Ileana Cotrubas
(delicate, natural) at the peak of their careers (1975), it exudes
controlled (but only �just� controlled) passion and a certain air of
impetuousness. Perfectly appropriate for a symphony that Mahler started
at the young age of 23. The quality of the singing is matched by the
captivating Viennese forces. The recording is less controversially
hailed than the Ozawa recording, but then it has also been considered
�great� for a long time, while Ozawa had a (Mahler-)reputation problem
by the time he recorded this symphony for the second time.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=21936&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.2/, M.Gielen / Kollisch & Banse / SWRSO (H�ssler)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004Z3YI/weta909-20>

A grand yet taut reading�not unlike Boulez�, although with a little less
of that glow the Vienna Philharmonic produces�is Michael *Gielen*�s.
Like Boulez he comes from modern music to Mahler (which is,
coincidentally Abbado�s as Chailly�s general approach, too) and looks
forward with the music, not back to Wagner and the like. His Mahler
interpretations have some detractors�but with reviewers like David
Hurwitz[1] <#_ftn1> and plenty of Mahler-versed acquaintances of mine he
is consistently among the highest rated Mahler conductors. His South
West Radio Symphony Orchestra seems infected by Gielen�s fervor and they
play with gripping intensity throughout. Juliane Banse (soprano) and
Cornelia Kallisch (alto), the EuropaChorAkademie and the Rundfunk-Chor
Berlin round out the vocal element very pleasingly. I prefer it over the
Michael *Tilson Thomas* recording (SFS Media SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=199546>)which is
a little bland in comparison to Boulez, Abbado and Gielen. Nonetheless,
I would loath to give up the MTT�s Second, because the Lorraine Hunt
Lieberson /Urlicht/ alone is worth having it�especially given her
tragically early exit from stage and life. Reviewing it in 2005
<http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/01/mahler-symphony-no-2-resurrection.html>,
I said: �[C]asting hues many other singers should envy [�], her natural
and honest tone is perfectly suited to /Urlicht/.� It�s just as true,
re-listening to it now�only with the addition of moister-still eyes.

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=92771&source=WETA>
//Symphony No.2/, MTT / Hunt Lieberson & Bayrakdarian / San Francisco
Symphony (SFS Media
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0006A9F5A/weta909-20>/ SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=92771>)
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=127233&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.2/, S.Rattle / Baker & Aug�r / CoBSO (EMI)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000EF5MIQ/weta909-20>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=1656&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.2/, Bernstein / Ludwig & Hendricks / NYP (DG)
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001G96/weta909-20>

*Klemperer* (New Philharmonia, EMI GRoC) did not stand up to most modern
versions when I last compared it in the review of MTT�s Second and
although a bargain on one disc at mid-price, there is too much that is
better (Mehta, for one, is available at the same price) to leave it a
serious competitor. Nor does, after hearing more and more versions,
Simon *Rattle*�s once much hailed (by the English press, of course)
recording stand out quite as much.

*Solti* with the London Symphony Orchestra has beautiful moments�but the
sound is not helping the almost unlistenably harsh brass section. They
are cringe-worthy and slightly �off� in the /Urlicht/, for example. A
shame for Helen Watt�s beautiful contribution. No shame for Zlata
Bulycheva�s bizarre, incomprehensible contribution on the more recent
LSO recording (LSO Live SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=199546>)
with*Gergiev*, though. What a mess�and not a performance to make up for
it from the Russian and his band, either.

A good contribution comes from *Zinman *(RCA SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=199546>),
though, who rips into the opening chord with quick determination, enough
to jolt you, not expecting the/Maestoso/ broadside from the usually
stately opening movement. The Andante is sly, everything has a slightly
lighter touch than Christoph *Eschenbach*�s more imposing, thunderous
recording with the Philadelphia Orchestra (Ondine SACDLogo_Klein2
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=199546>).
Convincing as both of them are, the SACD Choice is pretty clear, all the
same: Fischer Iv�n ahead of Tilson Thomas / Hunt Lieberson.

.


       Mahler 2 Choices

1. Pierre Boulez, WPh, DG

2. Zubin Mehta, WPh, Decca

3. Michael Gielen SWRSO, H�nssler

4. Seiji Ozawa, Saito Kinen FO, Sony

5. Iv�n Fischer, Budapest FO, Channel Classics


         Mahler 2 SACD Choice

Iv�n Fischer, Budapest FO, Channel Classics

Michael Tilson Thomas, SFS, SFSMedia

/Appropriate Exaggeration Prize/ Winner: Bernstein, NYPO, DG


             <http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>
             The font used in the title is �Serlio Regular�

             <http://weta.org/fm/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/breakdu.bmp>

//

[1] <#_ftnref1> I don�t see any mention of this in his enthusiastic
reviews, but full disclosure would stipulate that he mention having
written the liner notes for several of the Gielen Mahler releases.

.


       Today in Mahler:

Today, 100 years ago, Gustav Mahler conducted his second concert as
Music Director of the New York Philharmonic at Carnegie Hall. On the
program were Bach (Suite for Orchestra and the E-major Violin Concerto,
some Rameau, Handel, a Gretry aria and a Haydn Symphony (No.104) as the
conclusion.

[Graphic of org. program removed]


             New York Philharmonic Society, Program from the 68th Season
             1909 / 1910.
             First Concert of the Historical Cycle at Carnegie Hall
             Gustav Mahler, Conductor
             Wednesday, November 10th at 8:15 P.M.
             Courtesy of the New York Philharmonic Archives





--

*____________*

*/Jens F. Laurson/*

Classical Critic-at-Large
WETA 90.9 FM
Washington D.C.
www.classicalweta.org





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/10/2009 6:46:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mahler@yahoogroups.com writes:

Claudio *Abbado*(Berlin Philharmonic, DG) will fill the international
cycle’s gap with his performance that manages chamber-like textures,
despite the grandiosity of it all. It will be aired on November 12^th  .

"[C]hamber-like textures," perhaps. But where's the sense of  grandeur, the
sense of ceremony that such a large-scale piece should have? (Not  to
mention that the Soprano I, Studer, can't manage the high Bs and Cs on  pitch.)

Ozawa -- the choice you couldn't get -- manages the balance  between
intimacy and scale somewhat better: Ozawa at his best, at least, was a  superb
colorist.

But I can't help thinking that the choice of Abbado for your  presented M8
is leaving something missing....

SFV





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mahler continues...

http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1090



       Monday, 11.9.09, 12:00 pm


     Maybe I Do Love Mahler: The �International Cycle� on Classical WETA
     <http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=1090>

jfl

International-Cycle

available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=11409&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.1/, Kubelik / BRSO (Audite)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%2011409&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=145074&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.2/, Fischer / BFO (Channel SACDLogo_Klein2)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%20145074&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=53364&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.3/, Abbado / BPh (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=%2053364&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=176949&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.4/, Haitink/ RCO (RCO Live SACDLogo_Klein2)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=176949&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=7496&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.5/, Boulez / WPh (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=7496&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=108904&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.6/, Fischer / BFO (Channel SACDLogo_Klein2)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=108904&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=53365&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.7/, Abbado / BPh (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=53365&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=8909&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.8/, Abbado / BPh (DG)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=8909&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=6279&source=WETA>
/Das Lied von der Erde/, Bernstein/ WPh (Decca)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=6279&source=WETA>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=3474&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.9/, von Karajan / BPh (DG)
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GK9?ie=UTF8&tag=weta909-20&linkCode=as2\
&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000001GK9>
available at ArkivMusic
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=184952&source=WETA>
/Symphony No.10/, Noseda / BBC Ph (Chandos)
<http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=184952&source=WETA>

.Today begins the �International� of the three Gustav Mahler Symphony
Cycles that Classical WETA plays as part of Mahler Month. Made up of
some of my absolute favorite recordings�to the extend they were in print
or available. It is, a Leonard Bernstein appearance in /Das Lied von der
Erde/apart, a Western- and Central European cycle� although that is not
to take away from the Aisan and Russian contributions to the Mahler
discography, which I will touch upon in the accompanying articles
published here, this month.
.

kalblatt09Today, Monday, November 9^th , at 8pm we will hear one of the
finest new Mahler recordings made in the last few years:*Symphony
No.4* under Bernard *Haitink* with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra and
soprano Christine Sch�fer on RCO Live (SACD LOGO). Apart from
a /very/ different live performance I have recently heard with Daniele
Gatti
<http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2009/03/ionarts-at-large-mahler-supreme-lulu-to.htm\
l>,
this is the finest Fourth to have come my way, live or in concert.
.

kalblatt10Iv�n *Fischer*�s first Mahler recording with the Budapest
Festival Orchestra (Channel Classics) was that of *Symphony No.6*, and
it immediately set the tone for the excellence of the other releases to
come. Even though Fischer�s conception isn�t at all that of my �ideal�
Sixth (/fire & brimstone/, for me, please!), the performance,
conception, and especially the rhythmic feeling is so extraordinary,
that it immediately became one of my favorite versions. It will be
performed on Tuesday, November 10^th .
.

kalblatt11I long didn�t get */Das Lied von der Erde/*, and didn�t think
of it as one of the symphonies. That changed when a musician friend
played /Das Lied/ for me, one late, vinous night in Baltimore and made
me guess who was performing. I bumbled, guessing-wise, but as I listened
my ears opened and I was eventually hooked. The performance turned out
to be Leonard*Bernstein*�s 1966 recording with the Vienna Philharmonic
and James King and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau as his singers
(Decca). /Lied/-time is Wednesday, November 11^th .
.

*kalblatt12Symphony No.8*, with two grand choral movements, is the odd
symphony out, even among Mahler�s already unconventional symphonies; a
strange beast which some Mahler-credentialed conductors (Fischer and
Haitink, for example) refuse to conduct, or do so reluctantly. Because
Seiji Ozawa�s Boston performance wasn�t available,
Claudio *Abbado*(Berlin Philharmonic, DG) will fill the international
cycle�s gap with his performance that manages chamber-like textures,
despite the grandiosity of it all. It will be aired on November 12^th .
.

kalblatt13kalblatt14Friday, November 13^th , it is time for*Symphony
No.2* again, and again with the fine, sensitive combination of
Iv�n *Fischer* and the Budapest Festival Orchestra, while Saturday,
November 14^th  will feature *Symphonies Nos.1, 9, *and* 7*�with
Rafael*Kubelik* (BRSO, Audite), Herbert von *Karajan*, and
Claudio *Abbado*, respectively (both Berlin Philharmonic, DG).
.

kalblatt15The international cycle will be concluded on Sunday, November
15^th , with performances of *Symphony No.5* under
Pierre *Boulez*(Vienna Philharmonic, DG), *No.3* under
Claudio*Abbado* (BPh, DG), and *No.10* under Gianandrea *Noseda* (BBC
Philharmonic, Chandos). signature1

.

.





--

*____________*

*/Jens F. Laurson/*

Classical Critic-at-Large
WETA 90.9 FM
Washington D.C.
www.classicalweta.org




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]