--- In midiguitar@y..., "joekhejl" <joekhejl@e...> wrote:

> Okay Richard, I'll say it. Although the ES-175 is a beautiful
> guitar,it would be my last choice for a setup for the Axon. I had a
> hex pickup rigged to my 175 for a while with the Axon 100 and it was
> murder to get to work. A big hollow body like that is filled with
all
> sorts of kooky resonances and frequency peaks, things that make the
> guitar sound so good to play but make any gadget like a MIDI guitar
> synth, especially the Axon go bonkers! Anything you might do to the
> guitar to improve the performance of the Axon would certainly hurt
the
> sound of the guitar. There was a lengthy thread here about this
topic
> with someone having the same problem. Use the search function to
trace
> back some of the messages for possible clues.

Thanks for the reply but then, this answer raises even more
questions!!!!
For one thing, this MIDI guitar business is pretty new too me, and I
want it realy much to work for me.
I expect to have to adapt to this new instrument, which is what it is
realy, I am even willing to relearn some techniques if required but
then, what makes a good "subject" to a midi adaptation.
After all, a solid body has as much reasonnances and harmonics as an
ES-175, probably even more.
Then what about adapting the system to a nice and old Takamine cut-
away acoustic? (with a crack in the top to booth!)
My first try of the Axon was on a VERY well set (by David Evellin
from Steve's music shop, for those in the Montreal area, Hi Dave!)
Ibanez PR1440 (pro-line series)with abysmal results, I did not
account for the tremolo bar bag of problems!
Then I tried the system on a nice JK Lado "Hawk".( 1970 some?)
This is a solid body with neck trough the body and a somewhat shorter
scale, with mixed results.
Actualy, I found I can get the Lado and the Gibson work with quite
good results using a pick, but my main interest is to use finger-
picking, and I understand, then , that the Axon is no better in this
respect than anything else on the market.

I guess, I am looking for comments.
Also, is there anyone who developed a systemic approach of the
settings of " note off lim", "Trig level" and "sense" parameters!!?

Thank you all, Luc

This unit is in very good shape.
I bought it just in case my primary
one broke down, but I never needed to use it.

I am asking $180 for the Ground Control MIDI
foot controller. Buyer pays s/h to domestic U.S.

The Grnd. Ctrl unit has latest firmware, comes with
brand new user manual, and external power suppy.

You can see picture of a Grnd. Ctrl unit here:
----------------------------------------------------
http://www.100megsfree.com/jkidsus/forsale/gcont2.jpg

This unit is located in the Bay Area, CA.
Please respond to phil at jknews_1@...

Hi:  Since you're in Montreal-look at the Godin line.  Since you want
something optimized for MIDI guitar, look at the Godin line.

I think they represent excellent value, they've tested a lot of wood
and body types with help from Richard McClish (RMC) and they're a good
place to start until you get a custom made guitar with RMC's (like
maybe a Dualette?).

Peace!
Joel C.


-- In midiguitar@y..., "blue_luke" <blue_luke@y...> wrote:
> --- In midiguitar@y..., "joekhejl" <joekhejl@e...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply but then, this answer raises even more
> questions!!!!
> For one thing, this MIDI guitar business is pretty new too me, and I
> want it realy much to work for me.
> I expect to have to adapt to this new instrument, which is what it
is
> realy, I am even willing to relearn some techniques if required but
> then, what makes a good "subject" to a midi adaptation.
> After all, a solid body has as much reasonnances and harmonics as an
> ES-175, probably even more.
> Then what about adapting the system to a nice and old Takamine cut-
> away acoustic? (with a crack in the top to booth!)
> My first try of the Axon was on a VERY well set (by David Evellin
> from Steve's music shop, for those in the Montreal area, Hi Dave!)
> Ibanez PR1440 (pro-line series)with abysmal results, I did not
> account for the tremolo bar bag of problems!
>

Yes, I'll say it.  Try in "fingerpick" mode or try a Roland unit.
Some of the yodeling is due to Axon's system.  Also, clean up your
frets, clip your nails, press the strings down tight and keep them
down until the note is off.  On my Martin D-28 the fundamental fades
before the harmonic, giving me octave jumps on held chords (like at
the end of a piece).

Solid bodies are definitely better (fewer resonances).  Why do cellos
and violins need posts?  They must be mounted to resonate between two
pitches (like between E and F on a cello).

Joel C.

> Other than that, I'll let somebody else say it....
>
> Best regards,
>
> RMC

Hi Dave...

No picture, but I should try.  I have a 4-space rotomolded rack, I
drilled 2 1/2" holes and mounted midi jacks, and cut a midi cable in
half to make the wired ends, one to the GI-10 out and one to the
sampler in jack.  then I drilled for 1/4" phone jacks for left/right
out and one in (for sampling), and I added the GI-10 output which goes
straight to the sampler.  I put an outlet strip inside, and have about
2' of extension cord hanging out all the time.

It might show up if I set it on the kitchen table to photograph.

Joel C.


--- In midiguitar@y..., "future perfect" <artists@h...> wrote:
>  Do you have a pic of how you did this Joel? Great idea...for all
the
> cables going from the floor to the rack.
>
> Dave Eichenberger- guitars.loops.devices
>

Matt
thanks for the reply.  i agree that the pmc-10 is remarkable.  just wish the
axon midi implementation was more normal.  i understand this is what keeps
us from having an editor.

i suppose i could just use the pmc-10 to control my external synth,repeater,
jamman and maybe even my o1v in my live rack and do the axon from the front
panel, or maybe just use it to do program changes on the axon.

i'm curious about you use of the midi solutions footswitch controller for
midi clock.
the main thing i'd like to be able to get together is to do a tap tempo that
sets the arpeggio tempo in the axon and the tap tempo of the jamman (which i
use for delay) at the same time.  haven't had much luck with just connecting
them with a midi cable.  (i've got the axon out going to my proteus 3 and
then the thru's chaining to the rest of my gear). any thoughts.

thanks

Paul Reisler
Trapezoid/Kid Pan Alley/Ki Theatre
PO Box 38
Washington, VA 22747
540.987.3164    fax 540 987.3166

Bookings:  Loyd Artists 800-476-6240, info@...

http://www.kidpanalley.org  my kids songwriting project with a great CD
http://www.kitheatre.com  our theatre work
http://www.paulreisler.com   my songcamps and touring

Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:58:32 -0400
   From: "Matt Picone" <matman@...>
Subject: RE: Digest Number 735

I use a PMC10 and the Axon, but I use the PMC-10 to control my synths
and guitar gear and typically leave the axon on one setting.

It truly is the greatest pedalboard of all time. I'd be hopeless without
it. Add in a Midi Solutions Footswitch controller for Midi Clock
generation and you're complete!

-M@
--






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Joel

midi_guitar> Solid bodies are definitely better (fewer resonances).

Obviously

midi_guitar> Why do cellos and violins need posts? They must
midi_guitar> be mounted to resonate between two pitches
midi_guitar> (like between E and F on a cello).

Errmmm.... I don't think so.  It's more simple mechanics -
if you took the post away, the tension on the strings would
collapse the body of the instrument.

Perhaps some instrument maker would care to take up this
line of argument?

Graeme Jaye

graemejaye@...

Audio Restoration and CD Repair
http://www.personal-cd.com

Hobby Musician - find some of my stuff here
http://www.mp3.com/graemejaye

midi_guitar wrote:
> Why do cellos
> and violins need posts?
-- The violin as we know it is a newer instrument than the Oud and the
lutes which fostered the guitar. A greater degree of design engineering
is involved, although it all started with rubbing the ropes of two bows
(the weapons) together so that only one rope produces a note.

The soundpost is a little dowel joining the top and back. It is located
(approximately) under the treble foot of the bridge in order to convert
tipping motions of the bridge (from the bow rubbing horizontally on a
string) into a see-saw motion of the flexible top, where most of the
surface is going up & down. The back which is much stiffer moves a lot
less and does so mostly in the area of the soundpost.

The atack of a bowed note is a linear fade-in of the ultimate waveform.
In terms of pitch detection, this allows obtaining two or more good
fundamental cycles 'during' the attack of the note. The waveform as seen
on the scope is a growing sawtooth without the rippling harmonics of
plucked strings; what a deal... This realisation pushed a few friends
and I to start ZETA Music Systems to market MIDI violins back in '85.

Best regards,

RMC

> > Why do cellos
> > and violins need posts?

I used to own a string bass (bass violin, bass fiddle, double-bass, whatever)
and in the case of that instrument the placement of the soundpost is absolutely
essential for volume, tone and stability of the bowed note.  When we who play
electronically amplified instruments forget that acoustic instruments are
exactly that: ACOUSTIC, we're fooling ourselves.  The whole acoustic instrument,
be it a piano, woodwind, guitar -- every part of the instrument contributes to
the tone in some fashion.

So here we go and slap an electronic pickup on a device intended for vibrating
as much of the surrounding air as possible and we wonder why it glitches.
Remember the ugliest guitar in the world (IMHO), the Roland G707 with the
"stabilizer bar"?  I owned one and can attest that it has almost no tone
acoustically.  You know how you can strum a Strat unplugged and hear things like
the vibrato springs and the pickup cover vibrating?  That's what Roland was
trying to eliminate.

RMC said he was with Zeta.  Were you there during the Zeta guitar
design/develolpment?  It had a wired fret system like the Synthaxe, but it was a
real guitar rather than merely a MIDI controller.  I've only seen them in
pictures, never heard one, and have only heard brief comments on the instrument.
(One went by on eBay a couple of years ago, but the guy admitted he'd hacked on
it or something so it wasn't a good example of the guitar.)

Does/did anyone on the list own or use a Zeta guitar?

Ed Edwards
Leader: Ezekiel's Wheel      »»»»Retro-Progressive Rock««««
http://www.untiedmusic.com/ezekiel
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/227/ezekiels_wheel.html
°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°

Ed Edwards wrote:
> RMC said he was with Zeta.  Were you there during the Zeta guitar
> design/develolpment?  It had a wired fret system like the Synthaxe, but it was
a
> real guitar rather than merely a MIDI controller.
-- Yes. I worked on the analog circuits throughout the unit and on the
string/fret
scanner in the guitar (which actually worked at rev.2 !). It's the continuing
software saga and unforseen digital hardware changes that kept that plane from
flying.

This was too big an undertaking for ZETA. Unfortunately, I got outvoted on that
one.
I ultimately left ZETA in disgust in 1988 with a 3% ownership (down from an
initial
30% ownership) because of massive investment capital spending. Abut a year
later,
they finally canned the Mirror 6 guitar project and went back to making bowed
instruments. Of late, they got Blue Chip to do a violin chip for the AX-100 and
they're trying to diversify into the acoustic guitar market.

I'm glad to say RMC is growing steadily and as long as the fusion of all my
hobbies
outperforms CD's, T-bills & mutual funds while keeping me entertained, that's
enough
for me.

Best regards,

RMC

> This was too big an undertaking for ZETA. Unfortunately, I got outvoted on
that one.
> I ultimately left ZETA in disgust in 1988 with a 3% ownership (down from an
initial
> 30% ownership) because of massive investment capital spending. Abut a year
later,
> they finally canned the Mirror 6 guitar project and went back to making bowed
> instruments.

...and that year later happened to be when I picked my first copy of Electronic
Musician and they had an article on MIDI guitar (probably by Warren Sirota, Oct.
'89 IIRC) which had praises for the Mirror 6.  It looked like the sexiest real
guitar synth going....  I've also got a copy of "Guitar Synth and MIDI" from
Guitar Player productions which has a peice on it.  So just about the time the
bugs were smoothing out they abandoned it?

Do you think that the basic design is a good one - given today's technology?
After all, wired frets plus ultrasonic scanning plus wavetable lookup
theoretically sounds like a no-miss combination.  It might even solve those
fingerpicking woes that have been bantered about here recently.  (Of course the
poor musicians would have to use a special ax and not be able to attach the
system to a jazz box.)

Ed Edwards
Leader: Ezekiel's Wheel      »»»»Retro-Progressive Rock««««
http://www.untiedmusic.com/ezekiel
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/227/ezekiels_wheel.html
°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°


----- Original Message -----
From: "RMC" <rmcpickup@...>
To: <midiguitar@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [midiguitar] Re : history


> Ed Edwards wrote:
> > RMC said he was with Zeta.  Were you there during the Zeta guitar
> > design/develolpment?  It had a wired fret system like the Synthaxe, but it
was a
> > real guitar rather than merely a MIDI controller.
> -- Yes. I worked on the analog circuits throughout the unit and on the
string/fret
> scanner in the guitar (which actually worked at rev.2 !). It's the continuing
> software saga and unforseen digital hardware changes that kept that plane from
> flying.
>
  Of late, they got Blue Chip to do a violin chip for the AX-100 and
> they're trying to diversify into the acoustic guitar market.
>
> I'm glad to say RMC is growing steadily and as long as the fusion of all my
hobbies
> outperforms CD's, T-bills & mutual funds while keeping me entertained, that's
enough
> for me.
>
> Best regards,
>
> RMC
>
>
> --to unsubscribe send a blank message to
midiguitar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com--
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

grab it and love it for a lifetime:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=882014996


I'm also selling a Yamaha VL70m and a Yamaha QY100 tone module -
cheap!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=882025229

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=882021694

-Shane
www.shanesanders.com
www.futurehaus.com

Hi Paul and others:

My midi clock setup is pretty fun, I think; here's a map of the devices,
their functions, and a description of how the system works as a whole
with the outboard stuff. Forgive me if I seem to pedagogic, but I take
it that your question is really about the capability of midi beat clock
to allow synchronization in a rig of devices.

First is the PMC10. It connects to a Midi Solutions Footswitch
Controller (MSFC) with a merged output to an emagic Unitor8. The Unitor
also receives midi data from a Kenton Control Freak 8 slider edition,
and the Axon.

I use the MSFC to generate my initial clock signal; the emagic locks to
it and regenerates it (quite solidly and reliably) to all outbound
ports. To awaken the emagic to listen to incoming clock signal on a
particular port, one must first send it a midi start (FA) command, which
I do from the PMC10 (once everytime I power it up). (This prevents it
from listening for conflicting clocks).

The MSFC, which allows you to foot tap to set tempo, then acts as a
clock (once removed, in a sense, since it's really just sending number
to the emagic which is generating clock). One advantage is that it
provides a dedicated place for me to tap, so I don't need to eat a PMC10
button for tempo in every bank.

I don't use any of the onboard sounds or the arp in the axon, so from
the emagic, which is patched permanently to echo all sources to all
outputs, midi signal is routed to my other gear - an Axon Virus Rack XL,
a TC Electronics Fireworx, a Lexicon MPX-500, possibly an XV-5080 (soon
to be a 5050?) and a Switchblade. The Virus is the most fab of cat's
meow/dog's bollocks you could ever dream of for use with a guitar synth,
unless you're the French Horns type. It's onboard arps, LFOs, envelopes,
delay times, fx rates, and more all sync to midi clock, and what's more,
besides operating as a full time 16-part multi timbral synth, you can
dedicate one part to process a stereo guitar signal with all these
totally cool time dependent functions.

For example, I might play a chord which pulses in 1/16th note square
wave hard tremolo, while the notes of the chord - from the Virus as
commanded by the Axon) arpeggiate at the rate of a dotted 8th, and the
whole sound sweeps in and out once per measure (4/4) with a peak on the
1 and pans slightly around center every beat. A delay on the synth syncs
to the clock too.  Now, the whole sound might run into tight widener
(L=dry, R=19ms delay wet) from the Fireworx and then into reverb patch
which syncs predelay to an 1/8th note on the midi clock. This sort of
thing is only the beginning (but it's also slightly overcomplicated for
the sake of demonstrating a point).

Using this hardware you could sync up to 7 devices to one midi clock (or
more if you crosslink multiple Unitors). The MSFC, though, is what makes
it all possible, since none of the other gear in my rig did both midi
clock and Tap tempo (the Lexicon R-1 does both if you can get one and
don't need the more complex/flexible functions of the PMC-10). For me
though, the PMC10 is indespensible because of its ability to summon
system wide scenes, activate realtime pedals for any number of functions
(synth mod/effect mix/filter sweep/etc), and send short sysex strings to
my Switchblade and other gear. In some scenes, I even use a few of the
programs in a bank to swap between different synth or guitar sounds for
pick and play menu setups without changing the overall setup. It's a
real favorite once you add that MSFC for clock!!!

Anyway, the questions you need to answer are whether your gear syncs to
midi beat clock, how you plan to generate it, and how you'll distribute
it in a blend with your Axon's synth note/bend/CC messages.

Let me know if you have any more specific questions?

-M@

Can anyone tell me the correlation between the individual colored wires
and their function in the hexaphonic pickup for a GK2a/Axon 101?
I plan to splice a Shadow onto a mini plug connector for use with the
AxX-101 on-guitar unit (it fits better, has flatter curve, and better
spacing).

Clearly, the largest is a ground/shield. Anyone got more on this?

-M@

> Do you think that the basic design is a good one - given today's
technology?
> After all, wired frets plus ultrasonic scanning plus wavetable
lookup
> theoretically sounds like a no-miss combination.


It may be slightly off-subject, but I had an early guitar synth,
around the time of the SynthAxe, I think, bought new about 1981.
Some of those lost brain cells contained the name of the system.  I'm
sure one of you out there will recognize it and toss out the name,
and I'll be slapping my forehead, going "Oh, yeah, THAT was it!"  It
was built into a Hagstrom Swede guitar (a Les Paul type), and the
frets were wired as triggers.  Actually, it was a pre-MIDI guitar,
with CV-type output.  I bought a twin-oscillator beige box by
Oberheim to create the actual sounds.

It triggered great... too great.  It required relearning guitar
technique, because every change of fingering to get ready for the
next chord structure to be played acted as a hammer-on and triggered
the synth.  It was great for legato stuff, and Stanley Jordan would
have kicked butt with it.  But I didn't have enough patience, and
traded it in a couple of years later, for a 12-string that sounds
great now, 20 years later.

About 12 years ago I got the urge again, and got a Casio MG-510 which
I used until last year.  Now I'm considering the high-end Brian Moore
Custom Shop stuff and an Axon.  I'd probably go with Godin if they
still used RMC stuff.  Richard, you're about to cost me a lot of
scratch.

Older, perhaps wiser (accent on perhaps), and still insterested in
playing with cool toys...

Greg Berry

that was the ampeg Patch 2000, I still have a couple of the controller
pedals

peace, steve

From: "wellingtonchurch" <walter-ego@...>
Reply-To: midiguitar@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:56:49 -0000
To: midiguitar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [midiguitar] Re: Re : history



> Do you think that the basic design is a good one - given today's
technology?
> After all, wired frets plus ultrasonic scanning plus wavetable
lookup
> theoretically sounds like a no-miss combination.


It may be slightly off-subject, but I had an early guitar synth,
around the time of the SynthAxe, I think, bought new about 1981.
Some of those lost brain cells contained the name of the system.  I'm
sure one of you out there will recognize it and toss out the name,
and I'll be slapping my forehead, going "Oh, yeah, THAT was it!"  It
was built into a Hagstrom Swede guitar (a Les Paul type), and the
frets were wired as triggers.  Actually, it was a pre-MIDI guitar,
with CV-type output.  I bought a twin-oscillator beige box by
Oberheim to create the actual sounds.

It triggered great... too great.  It required relearning guitar
technique, because every change of fingering to get ready for the
next chord structure to be played acted as a hammer-on and triggered
the synth.  It was great for legato stuff, and Stanley Jordan would
have kicked butt with it.  But I didn't have enough patience, and
traded it in a couple of years later, for a 12-string that sounds
great now, 20 years later.

About 12 years ago I got the urge again, and got a Casio MG-510 which
I used until last year.  Now I'm considering the high-end Brian Moore
Custom Shop stuff and an Axon.  I'd probably go with Godin if they
still used RMC stuff.  Richard, you're about to cost me a lot of
scratch.

Older, perhaps wiser (accent on perhaps), and still insterested in
playing with cool toys...

Greg Berry


--to unsubscribe send a blank message to
midiguitar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com--

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ed Edwards wrote:
> Do you think that the basic design is a good one - given today's technology?
-- In the Mirror 6, he scanner clock speed was 96KHz. This induced a 16KHz noise
in the
magnetic pickups which was removed successfully using a tunable passive (simple)
band-reject filter.
Each of the 138 (23X6=138) string/fret contacts were scanned every 1.45 mS which
is about
695 times per second. More speed doesn't do much except fill the memory with
redundant
data. Technology = 1970's.   US Patent 4,468,997 currently public domain.

Yes, a scanning system works fine as long as the strings and the frets are kept
clean enough to avoid raising contact resistance. Which means the daily user
probably has
to cut down on beer and coffee consumption, clean the frets after using the
guitar and
actually change the strings every other week or so.
That's something guitarists weren't ready to live with at the time. Even today,
you don't
see any string/fret scanner-based MIDI converter. ZETAR is about the best you
can have in
scanned neck systems and it doesn't have strings & frets.

> After all, wired frets plus ultrasonic scanning plus wavetable lookup
> theoretically sounds like a no-miss combination.  It might even solve those
> fingerpicking woes that have been bantered about here recently.  (Of course
the
> poor musicians would have to use a special ax and not be able to attach the
> system to a jazz box.)
-- With clean strings, clean frets and clean hands, hardware won't be a problem.
May want to throw-in a Motorola 608030 processor & a few peripherals for good
measure.

Now to integrate those raw function blocks together into a superb musical tool
is a
different story. How much engineering and programming time can you spend (at
current
engineering salaries) to acquire the experience of a company like Roland or Blue
Chip ?
That's where the real problem is.
Nine moms can't do the job in one month either. It's not just compiling a ton of
dumb
stuff. Mechanical, electrical and software have to be complementary for this to
work
anywhere near acceptably. It's usually the pet project of some really bright
individual
with a combination of musical skills, a good ear, good notions of physics,
analog and
digital electronic engineering and programming. And preferably whose value
system is low on
greed.
.
Consider the Axon which is successor to the Shadow interface, which probably
succeeded a
first device which gave Andras Szalay a lot of grief.
Mr. Kakehachi is another illuminated guy (pres. of Roland Corp.) who started
messing with
guitar synth in the mid seventies after iventing and marketing the first
affordable
electronic drum machine (Ace Tone). Musically acceptable guitar synth
performance was
ultimately obtained in the early nineties. A slow return on the investment, but
he
persevered out of a fascination with the holy grail.

At some point, a company will pick-up the gauntlet again and make a combination
scanner and
pitch-detection-based guitar synth, and it may even be retro-fittable without
making a
mess. I'd like to meet those guys over lunch...

Best regards,

RMC

steve wrote:
  Now I'm considering the high-end Brian Moore
> Custom Shop stuff and an Axon.  I'd probably go with Godin if they
> still used RMC stuff.  Richard, you're about to cost me a lot of
> scratch.

-- The BMC guitars are nice.
I think they'll still sound good in 20 years....

Best regards,

RMC

Where and how can I get the upgrade???
Did not find anything on Axon web site.
And got no answer from e-mail (yet)
Luc

> What I know is that the most current version is 2.09, and that the
changes
> since 2.02 were mostly concerning the internal soundboard, certainly
> nothing to do with tracking.
>
> Andras

--- In midiguitar@y..., "midi_guitar" <joelc@e...> wrote:
> Hi:  Since you're in Montreal-look at the Godin line.  Since you
want
> something optimized for MIDI guitar, look at the Godin line.
>
> I think they represent excellent value, they've tested a lot of
wood
> and body types with help from Richard McClish (RMC) and they're a
good
> place to start until you get a custom made guitar with RMC's (like
> maybe a Dualette?).


No I am NOT going to buy a 12th guitar!
The lady would simply not even approach the subject at supper time!

I used to know Godin pretty well, when he used to work at "La Tosca"
one of Montreal's well known music store at the time (sixtees! yikes!)
He sold me my first guitar, a used harmony acoustic with F holes and
the strings got 1 inch over the fretboard after a a week-end of
camping.
This is where I learned that rain, sun and night dew are no good to a
guitar!!! (ROL)

But back to our subject, my intention was to also stick a bridge
piezo pick-up instead of the actual gibson saddles and get
an "accoustic" sound.
This would be great, it would allow me to play the whole gig with
just one guitar.
One model by Godin (???) does just that. But I think they ask about
$2,200 Can. for it down at Steve's music.
I think its worth every penny, but I just do not have the hay and the
justification for it! And the Gibson is not tradable for any
considerations, so is the Martin, and the Takamine, and the 62 P-bass
and... well, gou get the point!

Luc

Hi:

Yeah, the GR-50 is almost useless without a manual.  When I sold mine
I didn't scan the manual first, so I can't help you there, but I do
remember a few things.

1.  MIDI Out settings are stored in each preset, so each "patch" may
show up differently. (use the same patch)
2.  The GR-50 has two "branches."  Each of these is a midi stream on a
different starting channel.  Each branch ties up midi bandwidth.  For
the most versatility, I has a patch that transmitted branch one on
channel 1 polyphonically and branch 2 on ch 11 (thru 16)
monophonically.  They go out on the same midi cable, but good for
sequencing and for daisy-chaining several tone modules.

3.  Do you have a midi-data-viewing program such as MIDI-OX for
Windows.  This shows you data as the computer's interface receives it.
  Great for troubleshooting.

Can you tell which channel your keyboard is receiving on?  Can you set
Reason to receive on the same channel?  Can you set your sequencer to
receive on the same channel??

Joel C.

PS:  The GR-50 sends a LOT of stray data.  For that reason, I do not
recommend it for purchase.  Used GR-1, 9, 30, 33 and GI-10's represent
a much better value for the same price.  I still play the GR-1 and
GI-10, even though I could easily afford newer.  What does that tell
you??





-- In midiguitar@y..., "bdeivert" <bdeivert@y...> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Due to lack of a manual, I am stumped. I can play my GR50
> sounds and TRIGGER sounds in REASON, for example, BUT
> when I attempt to record the MIDI information in the sequencer
> there I get nothing. if I switch to the keyboard, no problem... can
> the MIDI out be blocked somehow?? or is thee somthing I hve to
> turn on? The cables for MIDI in and OUT are correctly configured.
>
> any help appreciated... and even more so a GR-50 PDF manual!
>
> if ther is such a beast.
>
> cheers
> BERT in Sweden

Luc,

MIDI guitar is full of enough compromises without the guitar being
compromised as well.
If you want to do it with an acoustic, you need an acoustic that is designed
for the job. A Squire Affinity Strat will give you much better MIDI guitar
performance than just about any regular acoustic or semi acoustic.

Nik

----- Original Message -----
From: "blue_luke" <blue_luke@...>
To: <midiguitar@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:08 PM
Subject: [midiguitar] Re: Yodelling



>
> No I am NOT going to buy a 12th guitar!
> The lady would simply not even approach the subject at supper time!
>
> I used to know Godin pretty well, when he used to work at "La Tosca"
> one of Montreal's well known music store at the time (sixtees! yikes!)
> He sold me my first guitar, a used harmony acoustic with F holes and
> the strings got 1 inch over the fretboard after a a week-end of
> camping.
> This is where I learned that rain, sun and night dew are no good to a
> guitar!!! (ROL)
>
> But back to our subject, my intention was to also stick a bridge
> piezo pick-up instead of the actual gibson saddles and get
> an "accoustic" sound.
> This would be great, it would allow me to play the whole gig with
> just one guitar.
> One model by Godin (???) does just that. But I think they ask about
> $2,200 Can. for it down at Steve's music.
> I think its worth every penny, but I just do not have the hay and the
> justification for it! And the Gibson is not tradable for any
> considerations, so is the Martin, and the Takamine, and the 62 P-bass
> and... well, gou get the point!
>
> Luc
>

Hello group.

Does anybody out there have a Roland GI-10 they are trying to sell.

Hi All, From what little I've heard, the acoustic line of Godin guitars seem
to trigger quite well with Roland gear and would think also well with Axon.
They really have spent more time than others when it comes to acoustic
guitars triggering other devices and though they don't put out great tone
acousticly, unplugged that is, they are amazing when hooked up to a sound
system. Think most of the other acoustics have a midi pickup installed as an
after thought and not part of the main design. Dave

I think the gent is saying he's looking for an acoustic sound not
necesarilly on an acoustic guitar but there definately is a point there, I
come from an acoustic background and have had trouble in the past because of
it, it took me along time to get away from hollow bodies and I kept wanting
heavier strings, particuarly on the bass strings, both of these things got
in the way of the synth function although both made the piezo sound better

but my point... I'm currently using as my main axes 2 custom built semi
hollow instruments w/ RMC systems on them.  these are both very solid w/
center blocks and stable necks, the same as solid bodies in most ways just a
couple of chambers, they work great w/ the RMC's on them
and since the quality of piezo sound is better on the RMC I don't miss the
hollow body.

so if among your 12 gtrs is one or two that are very stable w/ good necks
and great setups
slap an RMC on it and go, but choose wisely the RMC install is somewhat deep
so you don't want to redo it if posible.  you don't have to get a gtr made
w/ the system in it as long as the gtr is well made and I'm betting you have
at least one real nice gtr, no?

and as to doing a gig w/ one gtr well it depends on how diverse you are but
the RMC rig does give you the ability to switch between 3 totally diferent
sound sources w/o hassles, you can indeed go from distorted power cords to
fingerpicked acoustic(and the RMC sounds good!) to a huge lush synth pad,
instantly, on the gtr, VERY cool, for those of us who used to do gigs going
back and forth between acoustic and electric this is huge, add a programable
EQ on the piezo and a programable preamp on the mag pu, a couple of synthes
and oh my the possibilities almost become problematic, ah yes

good luck w/ it

steve
From: "Nik" <fluke@...>
Reply-To: midiguitar@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 09:10:11 +0100
To: <midiguitar@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [midiguitar] Re: Yodelling


Luc,

MIDI guitar is full of enough compromises without the guitar being
compromised as well.
If you want to do it with an acoustic, you need an acoustic that is designed
for the job. A Squire Affinity Strat will give you much better MIDI guitar
performance than just about any regular acoustic or semi acoustic.

Nik

----- Original Message -----
From: "blue_luke" <blue_luke@...>
To: <midiguitar@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:08 PM
Subject: [midiguitar] Re: Yodelling



>
> No I am NOT going to buy a 12th guitar!
> The lady would simply not even approach the subject at supper time!
>
> I used to know Godin pretty well, when he used to work at "La Tosca"
> one of Montreal's well known music store at the time (sixtees! yikes!)
> He sold me my first guitar, a used harmony acoustic with F holes and
> the strings got 1 inch over the fretboard after a a week-end of
> camping.
> This is where I learned that rain, sun and night dew are no good to a
> guitar!!! (ROL)
>
> But back to our subject, my intention was to also stick a bridge
> piezo pick-up instead of the actual gibson saddles and get
> an "accoustic" sound.
> This would be great, it would allow me to play the whole gig with
> just one guitar.
> One model by Godin (???) does just that. But I think they ask about
> $2,200 Can. for it down at Steve's music.
> I think its worth every penny, but I just do not have the hay and the
> justification for it! And the Gibson is not tradable for any
> considerations, so is the Martin, and the Takamine, and the 62 P-bass
> and... well, gou get the point!
>
> Luc
>




--to unsubscribe send a blank message to
midiguitar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com--

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Matt.  That was the best description I have heard of how to hook a
complicated system together to get the midi beat clock happening together.
I'm going to go ahead and get the Midi Solutions Footswitch Controller and
maybe pull my MTP-AV out of the studio and put it into my live rack as you
have with the unitor.
While I don't mind having one pedal on the pmc-10 from each bank used up for
midi beat clock it sounds like the MSFC is really needed.
thanks again for taking the time to demystify all this.
warmly
paul
--
Paul Reisler
Trapezoid/Kid Pan Alley/Ki Theatre
PO Box 38
Washington, VA 22747
540.987.3164    fax 540 987.3166

Bookings:  Loyd Artists 800-476-6240, info@...

http://www.kidpanalley.org  my kids songwriting project with a great CD
http://www.kitheatre.com  our theatre work
http://www.paulreisler.com   my songcamps and touring


Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:21:14 -0400
   From: "Matt Picone" <matman@...>
Subject: Midi Clock and the Midi Solutions Footswitch Controller in front of
my Digitech PMC-10

Hi Paul and others:

My midi clock setup is pretty fun, I think; here's a map of the devices,
their functions, and a description of how the system works as a whole
with the outboard stuff. Forgive me if I seem to pedagogic, but I take
it that your question is really about the capability of midi beat clock
to allow synchronization in a rig of devices.

First is the PMC10. It connects to a Midi Solutions Footswitch
Controller (MSFC) with a merged output to an emagic Unitor8. The Unitor
also receives midi data from a Kenton Control Freak 8 slider edition,
and the Axon.

I use the MSFC to generate my initial clock signal; the emagic locks to
it and regenerates it (quite solidly and reliably) to all outbound
ports. To awaken the emagic to listen to incoming clock signal on a
particular port, one must first send it a midi start (FA) command, which
I do from the PMC10 (once everytime I power it up). (This prevents it
from listening for conflicting clocks).

The MSFC, which allows you to foot tap to set tempo, then acts as a
clock (once removed, in a sense, since it's really just sending number
to the emagic which is generating clock). One advantage is that it
provides a dedicated place for me to tap, so I don't need to eat a PMC10
button for tempo in every bank.

I don't use any of the onboard sounds or the arp in the axon, so from
the emagic, which is patched permanently to echo all sources to all
outputs, midi signal is routed to my other gear - an Axon Virus Rack XL,
a TC Electronics Fireworx, a Lexicon MPX-500, possibly an XV-5080 (soon
to be a 5050?) and a Switchblade. The Virus is the most fab of cat's
meow/dog's bollocks you could ever dream of for use with a guitar synth,
unless you're the French Horns type. It's onboard arps, LFOs, envelopes,
delay times, fx rates, and more all sync to midi clock, and what's more,
besides operating as a full time 16-part multi timbral synth, you can
dedicate one part to process a stereo guitar signal with all these
totally cool time dependent functions.

For example, I might play a chord which pulses in 1/16th note square
wave hard tremolo, while the notes of the chord - from the Virus as
commanded by the Axon) arpeggiate at the rate of a dotted 8th, and the
whole sound sweeps in and out once per measure (4/4) with a peak on the
1 and pans slightly around center every beat. A delay on the synth syncs
to the clock too.  Now, the whole sound might run into tight widener
(L=dry, R=19ms delay wet) from the Fireworx and then into reverb patch
which syncs predelay to an 1/8th note on the midi clock. This sort of
thing is only the beginning (but it's also slightly overcomplicated for
the sake of demonstrating a point).

Using this hardware you could sync up to 7 devices to one midi clock (or
more if you crosslink multiple Unitors). The MSFC, though, is what makes
it all possible, since none of the other gear in my rig did both midi
clock and Tap tempo (the Lexicon R-1 does both if you can get one and
don't need the more complex/flexible functions of the PMC-10). For me
though, the PMC10 is indespensible because of its ability to summon
system wide scenes, activate realtime pedals for any number of functions
(synth mod/effect mix/filter sweep/etc), and send short sysex strings to
my Switchblade and other gear. In some scenes, I even use a few of the
programs in a bank to swap between different synth or guitar sounds for
pick and play menu setups without changing the overall setup. It's a
real favorite once you add that MSFC for clock!!!

Anyway, the questions you need to answer are whether your gear syncs to
midi beat clock, how you plan to generate it, and how you'll distribute
it in a blend with your Axon's synth note/bend/CC messages.

Let me know if you have any more specific questions?

-M@




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey thanks!

Let me know if you need any more info.

-M@

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Reisler [mailto:zoid@...]
> Sent: 06/08/2002 7:49 PM
> To: midiguitar@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midiguitar] Digest Number 738
>
>
> Thank you Matt.  That was the best description I have heard
> of how to hook a complicated system together to get the midi
> beat clock happening together. I'm going to go ahead and get
> the Midi Solutions Footswitch Controller and maybe pull my
> MTP-AV out of the studio and put it into my live rack as you
> have with the unitor. While I don't mind having one pedal on
> the pmc-10 from each bank used up for midi beat clock it
> sounds like the MSFC is really needed. thanks again for
> taking the time to demystify all this. warmly paul
> --
> Paul Reisler
> Trapezoid/Kid Pan Alley/Ki Theatre
> PO Box 38
> Washington, VA 22747
> 540.987.3164    fax 540 987.3166
>
> Bookings:  Loyd Artists 800-476-6240, info@...
>
> http://www.kidpanalley.org  my kids songwriting project with
> a great CD http://www.kitheatre.com  our theatre work
> http://www.paulreisler.com   my songcamps and touring
>
>
> Message: 2
>   Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:21:14 -0400
>   From: "Matt Picone" <matman@...>
> Subject: Midi Clock and the Midi Solutions Footswitch
> Controller in front of my Digitech PMC-10
>
> Hi Paul and others:
>
> My midi clock setup is pretty fun, I think; here's a map of
> the devices, their functions, and a description of how the
> system works as a whole with the outboard stuff. Forgive me
> if I seem to pedagogic, but I take it that your question is
> really about the capability of midi beat clock to allow
> synchronization in a rig of devices.
>
> First is the PMC10. It connects to a Midi Solutions
> Footswitch Controller (MSFC) with a merged output to an
> emagic Unitor8. The Unitor also receives midi data from a
> Kenton Control Freak 8 slider edition, and the Axon.
>
> I use the MSFC to generate my initial clock signal; the
> emagic locks to it and regenerates it (quite solidly and
> reliably) to all outbound ports. To awaken the emagic to
> listen to incoming clock signal on a particular port, one
> must first send it a midi start (FA) command, which I do from
> the PMC10 (once everytime I power it up). (This prevents it
> from listening for conflicting clocks).
>
> The MSFC, which allows you to foot tap to set tempo, then
> acts as a clock (once removed, in a sense, since it's really
> just sending number to the emagic which is generating clock).
> One advantage is that it provides a dedicated place for me to
> tap, so I don't need to eat a PMC10 button for tempo in every bank.
>
> I don't use any of the onboard sounds or the arp in the axon,
> so from the emagic, which is patched permanently to echo all
> sources to all outputs, midi signal is routed to my other
> gear - an Axon Virus Rack XL, a TC Electronics Fireworx, a
> Lexicon MPX-500, possibly an XV-5080 (soon to be a 5050?) and
> a Switchblade. The Virus is the most fab of cat's meow/dog's
> bollocks you could ever dream of for use with a guitar synth,
> unless you're the French Horns type. It's onboard arps, LFOs,
> envelopes, delay times, fx rates, and more all sync to midi
> clock, and what's more, besides operating as a full time
> 16-part multi timbral synth, you can dedicate one part to
> process a stereo guitar signal with all these totally cool
> time dependent functions.
>
> For example, I might play a chord which pulses in 1/16th note
> square wave hard tremolo, while the notes of the chord - from
> the Virus as commanded by the Axon) arpeggiate at the rate of
> a dotted 8th, and the whole sound sweeps in and out once per
> measure (4/4) with a peak on the 1 and pans slightly around
> center every beat. A delay on the synth syncs to the clock
> too.  Now, the whole sound might run into tight widener
> (L=dry, R=19ms delay wet) from the Fireworx and then into
> reverb patch which syncs predelay to an 1/8th note on the
> midi clock. This sort of thing is only the beginning (but
> it's also slightly overcomplicated for the sake of
> demonstrating a point).
>
> Using this hardware you could sync up to 7 devices to one
> midi clock (or more if you crosslink multiple Unitors). The
> MSFC, though, is what makes it all possible, since none of
> the other gear in my rig did both midi clock and Tap tempo
> (the Lexicon R-1 does both if you can get one and don't need
> the more complex/flexible functions of the PMC-10). For me
> though, the PMC10 is indespensible because of its ability to
> summon system wide scenes, activate realtime pedals for any
> number of functions (synth mod/effect mix/filter sweep/etc),
> and send short sysex strings to my Switchblade and other
> gear. In some scenes, I even use a few of the programs in a
> bank to swap between different synth or guitar sounds for
> pick and play menu setups without changing the overall setup.
> It's a real favorite once you add that MSFC for clock!!!
>
> Anyway, the questions you need to answer are whether your
> gear syncs to midi beat clock, how you plan to generate it,
> and how you'll distribute it in a blend with your Axon's
> synth note/bend/CC messages.
>
> Let me know if you have any more specific questions?
>
> -M@
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> --to unsubscribe send a blank message to
> midiguitar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com--
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Hey thanks!

Let me know if you need any more info.

-M@

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Reisler [mailto:zoid@...]
> Sent: 06/08/2002 7:49 PM
> To: midiguitar@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midiguitar] Digest Number 738
>
>
> Thank you Matt.  That was the best description I have heard
> of how to hook a complicated system together to get the midi
> beat clock happening together. I'm going to go ahead and get
> the Midi Solutions Footswitch Controller and maybe pull my
> MTP-AV out of the studio and put it into my live rack as you
> have with the unitor. While I don't mind having one pedal on
> the pmc-10 from each bank used up for midi beat clock it
> sounds like the MSFC is really needed. thanks again for
> taking the time to demystify all this. warmly paul
> --
> Paul Reisler
> Trapezoid/Kid Pan Alley/Ki Theatre
> PO Box 38
> Washington, VA 22747
> 540.987.3164    fax 540 987.3166
>
> Bookings:  Loyd Artists 800-476-6240, info@...
>
> http://www.kidpanalley.org  my kids songwriting project with
> a great CD http://www.kitheatre.com  our theatre work
> http://www.paulreisler.com   my songcamps and touring
>
>
> Message: 2
>   Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:21:14 -0400
>   From: "Matt Picone" <matman@...>
> Subject: Midi Clock and the Midi Solutions Footswitch
> Controller in front of my Digitech PMC-10
>
> Hi Paul and others:
>
> My midi clock setup is pretty fun, I think; here's a map of
> the devices, their functions, and a description of how the
> system works as a whole with the outboard stuff. Forgive me
> if I seem to pedagogic, but I take it that your question is
> really about the capability of midi beat clock to allow
> synchronization in a rig of devices.
>
> First is the PMC10. It connects to a Midi Solutions
> Footswitch Controller (MSFC) with a merged output to an
> emagic Unitor8. The Unitor also receives midi data from a
> Kenton Control Freak 8 slider edition, and the Axon.
>
> I use the MSFC to generate my initial clock signal; the
> emagic locks to it and regenerates it (quite solidly and
> reliably) to all outbound ports. To awaken the emagic to
> listen to incoming clock signal on a particular port, one
> must first send it a midi start (FA) command, which I do from
> the PMC10 (once everytime I power it up). (This prevents it
> from listening for conflicting clocks).
>
> The MSFC, which allows you to foot tap to set tempo, then
> acts as a clock (once removed, in a sense, since it's really
> just sending number to the emagic which is generating clock).
> One advantage is that it provides a dedicated place for me to
> tap, so I don't need to eat a PMC10 button for tempo in every bank.
>
> I don't use any of the onboard sounds or the arp in the axon,
> so from the emagic, which is patched permanently to echo all
> sources to all outputs, midi signal is routed to my other
> gear - an Axon Virus Rack XL, a TC Electronics Fireworx, a
> Lexicon MPX-500, possibly an XV-5080 (soon to be a 5050?) and
> a Switchblade. The Virus is the most fab of cat's meow/dog's
> bollocks you could ever dream of for use with a guitar synth,
> unless you're the French Horns type. It's onboard arps, LFOs,
> envelopes, delay times, fx rates, and more all sync to midi
> clock, and what's more, besides operating as a full time
> 16-part multi timbral synth, you can dedicate one part to
> process a stereo guitar signal with all these totally cool
> time dependent functions.
>
> For example, I might play a chord which pulses in 1/16th note
> square wave hard tremolo, while the notes of the chord - from
> the Virus as commanded by the Axon) arpeggiate at the rate of
> a dotted 8th, and the whole sound sweeps in and out once per
> measure (4/4) with a peak on the 1 and pans slightly around
> center every beat. A delay on the synth syncs to the clock
> too.  Now, the whole sound might run into tight widener
> (L=dry, R=19ms delay wet) from the Fireworx and then into
> reverb patch which syncs predelay to an 1/8th note on the
> midi clock. This sort of thing is only the beginning (but
> it's also slightly overcomplicated for the sake of
> demonstrating a point).
>
> Using this hardware you could sync up to 7 devices to one
> midi clock (or more if you crosslink multiple Unitors). The
> MSFC, though, is what makes it all possible, since none of
> the other gear in my rig did both midi clock and Tap tempo
> (the Lexicon R-1 does both if you can get one and don't need
> the more complex/flexible functions of the PMC-10). For me
> though, the PMC10 is indespensible because of its ability to
> summon system wide scenes, activate realtime pedals for any
> number of functions (synth mod/effect mix/filter sweep/etc),
> and send short sysex strings to my Switchblade and other
> gear. In some scenes, I even use a few of the programs in a
> bank to swap between different synth or guitar sounds for
> pick and play menu setups without changing the overall setup.
> It's a real favorite once you add that MSFC for clock!!!
>
> Anyway, the questions you need to answer are whether your
> gear syncs to midi beat clock, how you plan to generate it,
> and how you'll distribute it in a blend with your Axon's
> synth note/bend/CC messages.
>
> Let me know if you have any more specific questions?
>
> -M@
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> --to unsubscribe send a blank message to
> midiguitar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com--
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

tarafran@...

Hi,
     I'm a new member of the Midi Guitar group.  I bought a Roland GR-33 with a
pickup 6 months ago, and discovered that almost none of the patches worked for
me.  When I attempted to create new patches, I discovered that creating patches
on the GR-33 was like playing guitar with rubber gloves on.  (Impossible!).  So,
because I'm also a programmer of sorts, I started writing a GR-33 Patch Editor
in Visual Basic.  I think I'm about half done (though it's hard to know for
sure).  What I want to be able to do is to display all the information about a
patch on the screen (that part is done), and be able to modify and transmit the
changes back to the GR-33 so that I can hear the changes as I make them (almost
done).  The last step is to save the new or modified patches in my PC so that I
can send them to the GR-33 as a Sysex Message when I want to use them.
     If you are a GR-33 user, I'd like to hear from you.  When I finish the Patch
Editor, I would like to find a few users to help me test it.  Also, I would like
to hear about any problems and / or wish list items concerning your use of the
GR-33.
     My email address(es) are:
                 ScreamingVegetables@... (Text and graphics)
                 ScreamingVegetables@... (Text only)

                     Please put Re: GR-33 in the subject line
                                 Thanks,
                                         Don Brunetti



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]