That makes me feel better. With all these twenty-somethings around I was
starting to feel old - I'll be 40 on Saturday.

Jeremy

I will be 47 on my birthday; is gray power going to win out?
Deborah
--
Deborah Peel <><
To know Christ, to love Him, to trust Him and to treasure Him

I'm 33.
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: One of the McKays <musicke@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: [pipertalk] Oldies but G oldies


> So where are all the oldies on the list?
> I'm 48.
> I think Moe can beat that.
> Anyone else?
> David McKay
> musicke@...
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Shop online without a credit card
http://www.rocketcash.com
RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

I'm 34.

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:19:51 +1100 "One of the McKays"
<musicke@...> writes:
> So where are all the oldies on the list?
> I'm 48.
> I think Moe can beat that.
> Anyone else?
> David McKay
> musicke@...
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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well i am just a mere 25 but do i feel old.
aaron


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

I'm 22, but don't contribute much to the group, so who cares!   :)

anyone younger?

Nathan E.

i'm sure from what i've read of you so far that you are a smart guy too,
however I was talking to David McKay.  On the Edwards thing, I would agree
completely that certain do not by any means prove that they are inspired,
initiated, or motivated by the Spirit, however in another place he says that
men would fall down as wife beaters and wake up changed, this along with
John 16:9 conviction of sin those types of manifestations can be directly
corelated to scripture.  Also I think it's in "Hunger for God" Piper's book
on fasting, Edwards is quoted on faked manifestations causing some of the
biggest problems in the revival.  I know that some folks think if you're
pentecostal charismatic Vineyard or in some way too sympathetic to the gifts
that you oppose using discernment and don't care if they are misused, I care
and Paul cared when he wrote to the corinthians that they would use them and
use them right.  So in spite of fakes abuses problems with subjectivity and
messes that sometimes need to be cleaned up I feel we ALL need to pursue
them as passionately as we do the 5 points and all else that is good and
right and brings glory to God.
----- Original Message -----
From: <davefranktaylor@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem


> In a message dated 2/27/01 10:48:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> PREMIUMPLUMBING@... writes:
>
>
> > David, you sure are a sharp guy, I'd really like to know how you would
> > respond to the assertions I've sent so far.
> >
>
> Is this McKay or Dave (Bam Bam)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Yea Yea thanks dave for helping me out on that one.  For a minute i wondered
if I mixed up Edwards (and I may have) with Evan Roberts and the Welsh
Revival.
----- Original Message -----
From: <davefranktaylor@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Re: Grudem


> In a message dated 2/27/01 11:50:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> m.mclellan@... writes:
>
>
> > Frank,
> >    You need to check out your facts.  Read Jonathan Edwards own writings
> > and you will see that those involved in the above behaviors, proved
> > themselves to be unbelievers according to Edward's judgment.  He wrote
> > the book "Religious Affections"a in response to these emotional
outbursts
> > that Edwards considered, not a work of the Spirit - but a manifestation
> > of the flesh.
> >
> > Murray
> >
> >
> > Oh, oh, oh Murray. Your statements are misleading. Edwards did not say
what
> > you just said. He said that those manifestations were not necessarily
signs
> > of true religious affections. They could be the work of the flesh or the
> > Spirit. Be careful next time when you refer to a work so widely read!
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
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>
>
>

Amen!

Bam Bam

yes murray absolutely clear as mud.  I agree with the changing views idea
but in any case I feel it is a greater sin is not to recognize a true
visitation of the the Holy Spirit than to possibly let some fleshly abuses
slip by your judgement.
----- Original Message -----
From: Murray McLellan <m.mclellan@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Re: Grudem


>
>
> davefranktaylor@... wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 2/27/01 11:50:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > m.mclellan@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Frank,
> > >    You need to check out your facts.  Read Jonathan Edwards own
> > writings
> > > and you will see that those involved in the above behaviors, proved
> > > themselves to be unbelievers according to Edward's judgment.  He
> > wrote
> > > the book "Religious Affections"a in response to these emotional
> > outbursts
> > > that Edwards considered, not a work of the Spirit - but a
> > manifestation
> > > of the flesh.
> > >
> > > Murray
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh, oh, oh Murray. Your statements are misleading. Edwards did not
> > say what
> > > you just said. He said that those manifestations were not
> > necessarily signs
> > > of true religious affections. They could be the work of the flesh or
> > the
> > > Spirit. Be careful next time when you refer to a work so widely
> > read!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Yes, I will stand corrected.  What I said was misleading; as what I said
> was am overstatement - reacting to another blanket overstatement that I
> knew to be misleading.   I was drawing conclusions from letters of
> Edwards and writings of his that were written nearer to the end of his
> life than 'Religious Affections'.   I mixed in my own interpretation of
> his final concerns ( i.e. my conclusions based on what he wrote),
> implying that he had already reached those conclusions at the time of
> the writing of "Religious Affections." (which he hadn't yet)  Edward's
> view continually changed as time went on and he saw the "end" of many of
> the souls seemingly awakened during the "awakening."  I do think that it
> is crucial that we know when a writer wrote what we read.  If anybody
> read any of my earlier writings, they would come up with a whole
> different picture of what I believe than what I actually do believe
> today.   For example, anyone who knows me or has read anything that I
> have written recently will know that I hold to a particular redemption.
> They could state that to someone who has a copy of earlier writing when
> I believed in a universal atonement.  The person with the older writing
> could then reject the fact that I hold to a particular redemption,
> because they have direct quotes from me (albeit from earlier in my
> life).   Clear as mud???     Edwards wrote "Religious Affections" in a
> peroid of transition, when he was beginning to see more and more things
> which bought him grave concern.  Whitefield, was even slower to respond
> - but also began to see the long term "fruit" or lack thereof in many
> professing "converts".
>
> Ian Murray' biography of Jonathan Edwards is a great read if anyone is
> interested in reading more.
>
> By His grace and for His glory,
> Murray
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

To Jeremy and all others concerned:
On this supremecy thing:
Piper says his church and he himself exist "To spread a passion for the
supremecy of God in all things for the Joy of all peoples"  Ever heard it ?
Yea it's great. Now think about the Joy that hit Samaria when Philip
preached there.  Read it, he not only preached but performed miracles(Acts
8:6) people gave heed because they heard and saw.  What did they see? v.7
unclean spirits crying out LOUDLY and palsiated and lame people, yes I'm
talking about REAL people who were REALLY hurting and REALLY demonized and
REALLY messed up, they were met with mercy by a High priest who is EASILY
touched with the FEELINGS of their infirmities and you can bet there WAS
great joy in that city.  People need to hear and see the Word and Works of
the Kingdom.  What do people see when we get up to preach we are out of
balance if we don't have both.  Which new testament preachers or even
deacons (Steven) are we modeling ourselves after that we so theologically
astute but performed to miracles?     SEND
----- Original Message -----
From: Sisley, Jeremy <Jeremy.Sisley@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:18 AM
Subject: RE: [pipertalk] Re: Wayne Grudem


> Hi David Teh
>
> It was pretty well intended as a tongue-in-cheek comment, but since you
took
> the bait I'll try and respond... By the way, what is "theoectically"? I've
> not come across the term (I did mention that I was very simple, didn't I!
> ;))
>
> I like Dave "Bam Bam"'s statement:
> "Cessasionism is a solid theological deduction.
> However, solid theological deductions aren't always biblically
> true.".
> The problem I have is that cessationists are claiming a change in the way
> that God relates too/deals with his people. This is implicit in the word
> cessation which means that something that did happen has ceased. I believe
> that any such claim has to be justified biblically, and so far I don't see
> any such justification, on this board or elsewhere.
>
> The feeling I get (yep, it's feelings and not theology) is that one reason
> many folk are cessationists is because they are scared of the consequences
> of letting God work in ways that we don't understand and which don't
conform
> to our nice, orderly, controlled, western idea of what life should be
like.
>
> Now if we really believe the supremacy of God we wouldn't be worried about
> what God might do to upset our lives, and hence the statement that people
> who believe in the supremacy of God should not have a problem with the
> possibility that God might do the miraculous among us, whether that is
> talking to/through us (prophecy), or healing us, or any of the other
things
> he promised us in his Word.
>
> Now that's really going to wind a few people up, so I'm going to press the
> SEND button, turn the computer off, and come back in a few days when it's
> all blown over!
>
> Here goes, pressing the SEND button no...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davidteh@... [mailto:davidteh@...]
> Sent: 27 February 2001 16:50
> To: pipertalk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [pipertalk] Re: Wayne Grudem
>
>
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>
> Care to expand on that last point, on how, theoectically, the
> supremacy of God would force a non-cess fact?
>
> David
>
> --- In pipertalk@y..., "Sisley, Jeremy" <Jeremy.Sisley@h...> wrote:
> >
> > Count me in Dave. Definitely not cessationist. From my simplistic
> point of
> > view spiritual gifts are simply examples of God working in and
> through
> > people. Now why would anyone believing in the supremacy of God have
> a
> > problem with that... ;)
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
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>
>
>

July 3th it'll be the 60 .

In Him,
Buddy



-------------------- Begin Original Message --------------------


"--- aaron arledge <aaronarledge@...> wrote:
> To: pipertalk@yahoogroups.com
> From: "aaron arledge" <aaronarledge@...>
> Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 17:41:25 -0500
> Reply-to: pipertalk@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [pipertalk] (unknown)

>
>
>
> well i am just a mere 25 but do i feel old.
> aaron
>
>
>"


-------------------- End Original Message --------------------

Halleluia!  I'm finally not the baby anymore.


> I'm 22, but don't contribute much to the group, so who cares!   :)
>
> anyone younger?
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes Dan more to miracles than having the correct paradigm. But an
antisupernatural one can really be a hindrance.  I would agree Piper seems
to have a stronger view on sovereignty than Wimber had BUT
Piper's mission is to teach that truth.  I don't believe Wimber undermined
it or opposed it in  any way.  Wimber had a friend David Watson who was
dying of cancer He and many others prayed for David again and again.  Some
would come to David and tell him to "claim" his healing.  John describes how
he spoke with David about that, saying he could not affirm that David would
be healed because the Lord never told him David would be healed.  John
watched his friend die and many others close to him while seeing countless
others healed.  His "technique" of Learning to Minister Like Jesus can be
most simply summarized by Jesus only doing what He saw the Father doing.
Seeing the Father work is definitely a paradigm issue.
John Piper also credits Wimber for his view of God's sovereignty in healing
when he says " The Vineyard is Right to pray for the immediate outpouring of
the Holy Spirit to break bondages it's right it's just not guarenteed"  and
"Wimber got a few people leveled out who were a little bit quirky in their
theology ... if they had enough faith, or enough shaking or enough something
then God was automatically indebted to respond, Wimber knew that was all a
bunch of malarky" That was said in Holland, Michigan at the Lakeshore
Vineyard in 1998.  My wife and I were there I bought the tapes and they have
been a great treasure to me ever since, which is why I can almost quote them
from memory.  So although Wimber's preaching wasn't as focused on
sovereignty persee it was very much a part of his theology and practice.
John emphasized that techniques would fail because God move move in
different ways at different times.  Spit on the ground - mud in the eyes, he
claimed would be hard to teach people as a healing model.  We do use some
materials of John's for our ministry (prayer) team training which includes
several basic steps for approaching a one-on-one prayer situation but the
whole thing is based on trying to find out what the Father is doing and
doing it.
I'm not sure what you meant by a season of healing, indeed there were
seasons where an unusual level of annointing would be present in John's life
but with all of the discipling and training he did it seems more "ongoing"
in his life and in those he touched.
see ya
Frank
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Brennan <dan.brennan@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem


> Frank,
>
> I meant that John Piper (IMHO) had a much "stronger" (?)
> view of the sovereignty of God than Wimber.  I mean, in
> formal terms, Wimber wasn't reformed by any sense of the word.
> I think Wimber was blessed with a "season" of healings from
> from the Lord; Piper desired the same but he did not want to
> resort to a "technique" approach to healing or a view of God
> "showing up" expectedly every week.  I know, the criticisms
> against Wimber involving techniques.  I am not implying that
> Wimber merely resorted to techniques.  But during the 80's
> when God was "showing up" it certainly *appeared* that what
> Wimber was saying was, if you changed your paradigm,
> these things would happen to you.   But there is more to
> miracles than just having the correct paradigm.
> Does that help?
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: FRANK GARRO
>   To: pipertalk@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 8:47 PM
>   Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem
>
>
>   Dan,  I read your last sentance a couple of times and I don't understand
it.
>   Also, i know that on certain issues John has has changed his view over
the
>   years and I may even disagree with a point he might make here and there
but
>   there are things he knew and works he did especially in the department
of
>   prayer for healing that even Grudem considered him to be authoritative.
One
>   of the things I heard him say on some videos I have of him about 15 yrs
ago
>   is that when people would come to him after 1 week of praying for the
sick
>   and not seeing results would criticise his teaching he would just tell
them
>   to keep doing a couple thousand more times and "then come back and we'll
>   talk".  Bad advice? not really if you believe Jesus commands us to pray
for
>   the sick, whoever practices and teaches Jesus' commands will be
considered
>   greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
>   Frank
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Dan Brennan <dan.brennan@...>
>   To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:35 PM
>   Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem
>
>
>   > Hi Frank,
>   >
>   > I don't have time to research a lot right now, but one
>   > manuscript that sticks in my memory was very handy
>   > so I pulled it out.
>   >
>   > Compassion, Power and the Kingdom of God
>   > March 11, 1990
>   >
>   > Piper: "The way I approach this text this morning is
>   > guided by the desire to test that accusation--not to
>   > test all that John Wimber does.."
>   >
>   > At the end of the manuscript:" My conclusion then
>   > is James 5 is not a "crushing rebuke" to John Wimber's
>   > ministry--even though I have misgivings about it."
>   >
>   > In addition to that, while Wimber was "hot" back in
>   > the 80's, I first met John Piper.  My very first conversation
>   > with John had to do with John Wimber.  John Piper
>   > expressed caution and some reservations, but he
>   > believed at that time (maybe he has changed in recent
>   > years) that Wimber was essentially right about the kingdom.
>   > I think one of John's reservations is how that "fleshes"
>   > out today, without manipulating God.
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: "FRANK GARRO" <PREMIUMPLUMBING@...>
>   > To: "Dan Brennan" <dan.brennan@...>
>   > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:15 PM
>   > Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem
>   >
>   >
>   > > I may look into these manuscripts if i have time i've got about 4 of
>   > piper's
>   > > sunday sermons i have yet to read.  does piper explicitly mention
John
>   > > Wimber in his manu's on acts?  Did you catch to note i made about
John
>   > Piper
>   > > taking a busload of his people to Anaheim?
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > From: Dan Brennan <dan.brennan@...>
>   > > To: FRANK GARRO <PREMIUMPLUMBING@...>
>   > > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:49 AM
>   > > Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > >
>   > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > > From: "FRANK GARRO" <PREMIUMPLUMBING@...>
>   > > > To: <dan.brennan@...>
>   > > > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 11:21 PM
>   > > > Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > > Dan,
>   > > > > When you say you knew Grudem before you Piper does that mean you
ate
>   > > lunch
>   > > > > with these guys or you read their books.
>   > > >
>   > > > I have talked with him personally, face-to-face, on several
>   > > > occasions.  I have also read his books.  So, I am "acquainted"
>   > > > with him.  The several discussions I had with him was prior
>   > > > to my knowledge that John Piper existed.  Also, those discussions
>   > > > were primarily about signs and wimbers.
>   > > >
>   > > >  How do you KNOW they were
>   > > > > "cautious" in the interaction with John Wimber.
>   > > >
>   > > > Read John Piper's sermon manuscripts on Acts.  He
>   > > > does a good job of affirming Kingdom "manifestations"
>   > > > while distancing himself from Wimber.
>   > > >
>   > > > Ditto for Grudem and his printed works.
>   > > >
>   > > > > Grudem doesn't say that in
>   > > > > his book
>   > > > Grudem has more than one book out.
>   > > >
>   > > > >and Piper doesn't say that when he speaks at Vineyard Churches or
>   > > > > when he tells of how he called John for advice on a huge issue
that
>   > > > affected
>   > > > > the leadership of his church in Minn..
>   > > >
>   > > > I have sought counsel from people with whom I had
>   > > > theological disagreements.  :-)
>   > > >
>   > > > > I don't mean to sound sarcastic but
>   > > > > I get a little tired of people slamming others they don't really
>   know
>   > > > about
>   > > > > and discouraging others from coming in contact with their
>   ministries.
>   > > >
>   > > > I don't understand this comment.  Did I "slam" somebody?
>   > > >
>   > > > > Unless your knowledge is firsthand or close to that I can't
imagine
>   > you
>   > > > will
>   > > > > helping Tracy in her quest for truth.
>   > > > > Frank
>   > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > > > From: Dan Brennan <dan.brennan@...>
>   > > > > To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
>   > > > > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:59 PM
>   > > > > Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >   ----- Original Message -----
>   > > > > >   From: PhilipandTracy@...
>   > > > > >   To: pipertalk@yahoogroups.com
>   > > > > >   Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:56 AM
>   > > > > >   Subject: [pipertalk] Wayne Grudem
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >   Hi Tracy!
>   > > > > >   I am new to the list.  I knew Wayne Grudem
>   > > > > >   before I knew John Piper.  Both men have
>   > > > > >   challenged my thinking, my knowledge of the
>   > > > > >   Scriptures, and my knowledge of the Lord.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >   Both men have big hearts for Jesus; both have
>   > > > > >   big hearts for His church.  Both have pursued
>   > > > > >   a cautious interaction with men like John
>   > > > > >   Wimber and others.  Both men want to experience
>   > > > > >   all that the Lord wants them to experience.
>   > > > > >   Both are hungering after a greater sense
>   > > > > >   of the Spirit's presence and power in their
>   > > > > >   own lives and in God's people.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >   Both men are passionately for God's truth.
>   > > > > >   They both have a deep understanding (IMHO)
>   > > > > >   of what it means to test all things and hold
>   > > > > >   fast to that which is good.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >   Sincerely,
>   > > > > >   Dan Brennan
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
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>   > > > > >
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>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
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Thankyou Moe! It's safe to declare my hand now ...  I thought I was
going to be the one "full of years" (if not full of wisdom!) but I'm
only 50.  How old will we be in heaven??!!  Btw, congrats and many
happy returns to Jeremy for Saturday.
God Bless
Ken

> How old will we be in heaven?

An interesting (if irrelevant) question. I've heard some say that we will
all be mid-thirties because we are being transformed more and more into the
image of Jesus, and that was his age when he died on the cross... mind you,
on that basis we're all going to be male and Jewish, too!

Maybe Moe could give a prize for the most original theory on the age of the
saints in heaven...

Jeremy

By the way, how do you guy/gals cope with praying for someone
or something long term?  I can start off enthusiastically for the
first week or two, but then it all gets very repetitive and loses
much of the initial "zeal". However, if a new prayer-need arises, I
can go for that hammer-and-tongs (well, hammer, anyway...) at the
expense of the earlier, but older, need.  I always was better at
sprinting than at long distance: maybe the same thing is happening
here, and it's all just "me".  Or is it?  What do you all find?

God Bless

Ken

I don't think the absence of emotional fervor makes our prayers less
effective or sincere especially over the long haul. Those of us in long term
relationships have struggled with the command to love when "that loving
feeling" hasn't been there. In that case, I am not sure anyone would say our
love is less than sincere. Its motivation is different, but its goal is the
same.

Bam Bam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Since heaven exists outside of time the question is not really answerable.
Age will not be a factor. We will have the ability to play like children,
run like teens, and (of course) worship with the wisdom of more mature years
and the wonder of a toddler.

Richard

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Yes, Lord, walking in the way of your truth, we wait eagerly for You, for
Your Name and Your renown are the desire of our hearts." (Isaiah 26:8)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----- Original Message -----
From: Sisley, Jeremy <Jeremy.Sisley@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 1:56 AM
Subject: RE: [pipertalk] Re: Oldies but G oldies


>
> > How old will we be in heaven?
>
> An interesting (if irrelevant) question. I've heard some say that we will
> all be mid-thirties because we are being transformed more and more into
the
> image of Jesus, and that was his age when he died on the cross... mind
you,
> on that basis we're all going to be male and Jewish, too!
>
> Maybe Moe could give a prize for the most original theory on the age of
the
> saints in heaven...
>
> Jeremy
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Anyone out there know of a good commentary on the Psalms?  I am interested
in learning the historical context and events that prompted the Psalms.  I
have been keeping my eye out for a deal on Spurgeon's Treasury of David.
Does anyone know if this tends to be exegetical and historical or more
devotional and inspirational (not that these are mutually exclusive)?  I am
assuming a good balance of both. Anyone have a favorite commentary to
recommend?

Thanks for any input,

Nathan the Younger

Because of its size and variety the book of Psalms is tricky on commentaries.  I
don't own a recent technical commentary on the Psalms but if I'm near a library
I like to look at the Word commentaries (3vols.).  It's always a joy to pick up
Sprugeon's Treasury. My reading nook is never without one of the volumes. It
requires a lot of (fun!) digging and it is certainly more devotional than
technical but at the end of the day that's often more useful to me. Brother
Charles is full of love for God! For what it's worth I find the notes of the NIV
Study Bible particularly helpful on the Psalms.  Finally for an accesible
primer/refresher to the Psalms and Hebrew poetry I often go to Bernhard W.
Anderson's Out of the Depths (I would call it required reading -  as it was for
me at Gordon-Conwell a decade ago).

Richard
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Yes, Lord, walking in the way of your truth, we wait eagerly for You, for Your
Name and Your renown are the desire of our hearts." (Isaiah 26:8)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
----- Original Message -----
From: <esposito2@...>
To: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [pipertalk] Psalms Commentary


>
> Anyone out there know of a good commentary on the Psalms?  I am interested
> in learning the historical context and events that prompted the Psalms.  I
> have been keeping my eye out for a deal on Spurgeon's Treasury of David.
> Does anyone know if this tends to be exegetical and historical or more
> devotional and inspirational (not that these are mutually exclusive)?  I am
> assuming a good balance of both. Anyone have a favorite commentary to
> recommend?
>
> Thanks for any input,
>
> Nathan the Younger
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

G'day Nathan
I really appreciate VanGemeren's Commentary on Psalms in the Expositors
Bible Commentary. I couldn't afford to buy the set in book form, so I have
the CD-ROM. This is not as convenient, but does the job. You also get Carson
on Matthew, Longenecker on Acts and quite a few other good commentaries.

Best wishes
David McKay
musicke@...

i'm searching out material,resources, books concerning the parables:
  teaching the pithy Jesus sayings
as part of a disccipleship residential in the early summer..... for 14-18's
and wondered
What you all have used, benefitted from in the past...
your insights would be tremendously appreciated,
johnny

Though they are flawed, they are also brilliant: Robert Capon's Three Book's
on the Parables. I really can't say enough good about the way they changed
my thinking regarding the parables. Plus they are very grace centered.

----- Original Message -----
From: Johnny Douglas <jonathan.douglas@...>
To: <PastorMail@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <pipertalk@yahoogroups.com>; <youthwork@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 9:20 AM
Subject: [pipertalk] discipleship


> i'm searching out material,resources, books concerning the parables:
>  teaching the pithy Jesus sayings
> as part of a disccipleship residential in the early summer..... for
14-18's
> and wondered
> What you all have used, benefitted from in the past...
> your insights would be tremendously appreciated,
> johnny
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pipertalk-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I have enjoyed using And Jesus Said by William Barclay and The Parables of
Jesus by Simon Kistemaker.

David McKay
musicke@...

Frank,

I would essentially concur with your response.
By "season" I meant that it is plainly observable
there was more "power" manifested in the
late 70's & 80's than towards the end of the
80's and the early 90's.

Sincerely,
Dan Brennan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I thought I'd take a moment to introduce myself to the
group.. I've been lurking for several weeks now.

I'm an 18-year old guy from BC, Canada (guess I'm the
baby now?).  I first read Desiring God last year, and
confess, it made absolutely no sense to me, having no
foundation to understand it from.  Through a mentor of
sorts I bought Grudem's "Bible Doctrine" and several
Piper books (I especially like A Godward Life.

I'm a musician -- piano, voice, and flute -- and I'm
hoping to study music next year, with an eye on
Southern Seminary (KY) and their M.Div in Church
Music.  As God leads of course.  I am really hoping
and praying I will have the opportunity to spend some
time at Piper's church, for the Bethlehem Institute's
apprenticeship program, after graduation (university
grad that is).

I've been following the discussion on the gifts of the
Spirit carefully, because it was the first
"controversy" (for lack of a better word) that I
struggled with when I was first saved.  In my school,
it seems the more passionate and "hedonistic"
Christians -- also the Christians with the "biggest
God" as far as conceptions go -- are those that attend
Pentecostal churches, but I had been very intimidated
by the manifestations.  I'm still not sure where I sit
on that.. but for me it is significant that those
Christians I know who claim to have spoken in tongues
seem to also have assurance, passion and genuine love.

Anyways, I just thought I'd drop a line and say hi.
Look forward to reading and maybe discussing with you
soon.

~SDG
Chris Maddocks

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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G'day Chris
I play piano, and also teach piano and musicianship [music theory course] in
a conservatorium in western New South Wales, Australia and my wife Joan
plays and teaches piano and flute.

Good to hear from you.
I'm a curmudgeon on the spectacular gifts of the Spirit, as they are
practised today. Most practitioners I have encountered are more interested
in the gifts and new revelations than in the clearly revealed Word of God.
David McKay
musicke@...

G'day Chris
I play piano, and also teach piano and musicianship [music theory course] in
a conservatorium in western New South Wales, Australia and my wife Joan
plays and teaches piano and flute.

Good to hear from you.
David McKay
musicke@...

Just a question...

When you refer to assurance, what do mean by that?

Bam Bam