Hi Robbie,

thanks for your quite extensive reaction. A quick reply:

Your concerns about the possibly negative impact of freely sharing Basho's music do make sense to me. I have ordered the Bonn concert as soon as I found out about it (and I'm trying to figure out how to get hold of the India II record!). But I must admit that having most of the music in mp3 format, has impeded my buying the reissues on cd (I've only recently ordered Venus in Cancer – the other reissues seem unavailable)...
On the other side I feel that the current revival of interest in R.B. owes at least something to the availability of his music through file sharing, which may be illegal and even immoral from one point of view, but has the advantage of getting the average music lover in contact with more obscure and rare musical sources. It's a difficult matter, and all simple pro or con conclusions are likely to get it wrong. My personal strategy is that I download everything I can lay my hands on, and then buy the stuff on cd or lp I really like or which I think needs support. I think people who really love music will always prefer a cd to a lousy, lossy mp3. But "those with only a more passing interest" should be able to discover the music whenever they get interested. So I don't have any problem with sharing the albums I have through soulseek.

Some other thoughts:

1 - The questions about legal ownership are very interesting, but do not amount to much practical in this discussion. I guess Glenn Jones is right in stipulating that opening our wallets and buying all bashovia is the best way to stimulate future releases.

2+3 - It would be interesting though to have an advance view on what may be coming. I agree with your suggestion that more information is needed before anyone can begin to think about "ways to upload and share some of the rarer material" in any organised way.  Are there plans at the moment for other (re)issues? What live-recordings exist and in what shape are they and who has them? What kind of tapes, e.g. containing unfinished music, alternate takes, complete but unreleased albums, etc. are out there? (I'm very curious about Glenn Jones' collection!)

4 -Depending on what kind of stuff is still unreleased (I really don't have a clue about that), there is the question of what to do with it. I wonder whether everything should be issued on cd or through record labels. Things like interviews, or alternative versions of old songs, or inferior later albums etc. can be put on the web in a decent format (e.g. .wav or .flac) and be freely available to all interested,  – although I do think that if there are still gems hidden somewhere they should be properly mastered and issued `officially'.

So long,
Pieter

--- In robbiebasho_forum@yahoogroups.com, "Robbie Dawson" <robbie.dawson@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Pieter, I'm very glad you have found our modest archive of messages interesting and
> useful. For me at least, the approaching summer promises a lot more free time to devote
> to Basho stuff. For the past many months I've been in a kind of self-imposed Basho exile
> (it's way too distracting!) and today was the first time I've properly sat down and listened
> and engaged musically with it for a long time. In fact, today I hardly got past the first 3
> bars of Babs (I presume you have already heard this one... if not, oooh just wait till you
> do!), so hypnotised was I by the wonderful overtones and colours (metaphorically
> speaking). So, in this spirit of revival, I am especially happy to read your message. I hope I
> can be of some help.
>
> 1) I'd be happy to share the BFBS interview. I'll have a crack at Rapidshare tomorrow. I
> have no qualms on this one, seeing as that's how it came to me, and it would only be
> correct to pass it on in that way.
>
> 2) I'm afraid I fall short regarding this issue on at least two counts. The first being my lack
> of interest and expertise in soulseek and the like- it has only been thanks to others
> people's interest that I have come across some of the bootlegs you speak of, the BFBS
> interview and Contemporary Guitar Sampler. to name but two. Doubtless there are more
> gems already floating around the internet that we're still unaware of.
>
> Secondly, I feel especially unprepared and unsophisticated in discussions of legal
> copyright issues, sharing, ethics, commercial interests, and the like. It seems clear first of
> all that personal views are shaped by personal experience, consisting of both interests and
> insights. For example, those here who have a foot (or more) in the industry may have a
> better grasp of the impact of internet sharing than those who are avid and independent
> 'seekers' on the internet and beyond. It's also clear that both sides have a contribution to
> make in the discussion. I'd say too that recent more or less out of the blue (but extremely
> welcome) releases of his work, namely Vanguard's India II and Bo' Weavil's Bonn concert,
> are signs that official releases are possible (hopefully viable) and do happen. I'm sure none
> of us would wish to inhibit future releases of this kind. But then again, I'm not capable of
> pointing out the exact impact that internet sharing has on these kinds of endeavours-
> whether it is a wholly negative impact or a positive one (i.e. publicity). I suppose it boils
> down to a matter of space- whether official and unofficial vie for the same space or
> compliment each other. And again- in Basho's case the 'official'/'unofficial' divide is also
> problematic. I for one wish I knew more about the issues and processes by which a
> company like Bo' Weavil (or Tompkins Square, for another example) comes to release a
> recording, and simultaneously comes to acquire something of 'official' status along the
> way. What are the elements that begin to distinguish (let alone serve to create the
> offical/unoffical opposition) informal internet sharing on the one hand, and a commercial
> release on the other (no matter how small).
>
> What am I trying to say? Probably, perhaps half-intentionally, nothing. It is with a very
> guilty conscience that I admit to having spent so long getting round to purchasing either
> of the above recent releases (in the case of the former, it is largely down to it not being
> available in itunes shops outside of the U.S., in the latter largely to my pennilessness and
> sheer laziness.) But then again, having had every intention of buying the Bonn issue from
> the start, would I have acted faster had I not heard the concert in bootleg form
> beforehand? I guess no one can ever rely on the consumer's good will.
>
> But, as is probably quite evident by now, I am not the best person to be addressing this
> issue at all, I am naiive and ignorant in these matters (wilfully perhaps). I agree with your
> caution as regards sharing stuff that is already buyable, but the rapidity with which that
> release appeared surely teaches us that we can't second guess the direction things will
> take in the future. If the Bonn concert bootleg had been more widely circulated, would it
> have inhibited this release, and perhaps more provocatively, was it the Bonn recording in
> drifting internet bootleg form that made itself known to Bo' Weavil in the first place?
>
> I guess these issues all contribute to a view of the problematic contemporary condition of
> the music industry as a whole. I remember, a few years ago when I was deeply into
> Captain Beefheart and I discovered the longstanding commercial unavailability of his Lick
> My Decals record, I held my breath waiting for a reissue, which I was sure was imminent-
> but as the years have drifted on there's been no change, despite the obviously growing
> interest in Beefheart since that time, with the success of the Magic Band and numerous
> shoddy and not-so-shoddy cd rarities releases. To this day I still haven't heard that
> album, even thought I'm sure by now it's available on soulseek. If one of Beefheart's most
> acclaimed records can languish for so long, surely the future commercial availability of
> Basho's music is all the more precarious and unpredictable?
>
> And it's also not just a case of setting up a system for dispensing his music to the
> interested few (for an academic interest, say), as if this has a negative impact on other
> concerns even in the slightest, it is already corrupt. Not everyone would agree with this,
> but I would say that one of our main interests should be to increase popular awareness
> and understanding of Basho and Basho's music- to make him, his music, and everything
> about him openly available. In this endeavour, commercial releases are extremely valuable,
> as well as being part and parcel of his ongoing living legacy in a way that research
> databases, say, aren't to the same extent. A guarded and jealous possessiveness of his
> music would be, I would say, a very negative outcome.
>
> In any case, I apologise for not having yet really approached your invitation to think about
> "ways to upload and share some of the rarer material". To be more direct, four things
> come to mind:
>
> 1) to learn a little bit more about actual circumstances with regards to the legal ownership
> of his music, from the Takoma days through Vanguard and Windham Hill, and also to
> those of his later cassettes.
>
> 2) plans for future releases, if any. I know Fantasy (later Concord?) spent a number of
> years of intensive Fahey reissues, which continues at a slower pace. What about Basho?
>
> 3) to learn more about who in this group owns and has heard what (and when), and in
> what format.
>
> 4) to look into the ins and outs of creating a database for those interested in the music
> (for study or whatever). I am obviously not suggesting here that this group has any
> authority in this matter at all. It would just be interesting to know how things like this
> work, outside as they are of mainstream (or not so mainstream) commercial developments.
> I personally think it's a great shame that those interested in Basho's music are inhibited by
> the rarity (and later cost) of acquiring the music individually each time. Many of us have
> presumably (one way or another) invested some time and money into hearing Basho's
> music- surely there's some argument for pooling the fruits of these endeavours, just as
> there is in bringing together the (less quantifiable) wealth of personal memory and
> experience? But then again, would it ever be desirable for us to discount the value of this
> personal investment, to the advantage of those with only a more passing interest? But
> again, it is of this last vaguely exclusive attitude that I am personally very wary.
>
> I thank you for getting my thoughts moving on this topic again, and I hope that what I've
> come up with is of some interest (and sense!) to you.
>
>
> Robbie
>
>
>
> --- In robbiebasho_forum@yahoogroups.com, "Pieter Appels" pieterappels@ wrote:
> >
> > Hello Robbie and co.,
> >
> > I recently discovered this forum and spend an enjoyable evening going
> > through the many insightful posts, the inside stories and the useful
> > tunings. Since encountering Basho's music some two years ago, I've been
> > looking for more biographical and other background information (and for
> > recordings as well!). I was especially thrilled by discovering the
> > 1974interview, streamable from the internet archive.
> >
> > Two questions though:
> > 1 - could you provide some link to the "digital version of the recording
> > of the BFBS interview" on rapidshare you mentioned earlier? I can't seem
> > to manage to find it...
> >
> > 2 - in some of the earlier posts there was discussion about the
> > appropriateness of sharing Basho-material online, via soulseek,
> > rapidshare or by other means. I have obtained most of the Takoma and
> > Vanguard albums through filesharing programs, but can´t get a hold of
> > later records, let alone the cassettes or bootleg material. The albums I
> > do have are of poor, lossy quality.
> > Is anyone interested in reviving this discussion and in thinking about
> > ways to upload and share some of the rarer material (it goes without
> > saying I´m not talking about the buyable stuff like the Bonn
> > concert), - or am I the only one in this sad position?
> >
> > Bye from Belgium,
> > Pieter
> >
> >
> > --- In robbiebasho_forum@yahoogroups.com, "Robbie Dawson"
> > <robbie.dawson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > a couple of things that may or may not be known already about the
> > availability of these
> > > recordings-
> > >
> > > 1) a digital version of the recording of the BFBS interview was kindly
> > uploaded to
> > > rapidshare last year by Will Dawson for the group's consumption. This
> > version begins with
> > > a recording of grail and the lotus and ends with cathedrals, both off
> > art of acoustic. It is
> > > exactly 1 hour long
> > >
> > > 2) I seem to be in possession of the first Bonn live recording, 11
> > songs, starting with
> > > redwood ramble and ending with california raga.
> > >
> > > As far as I know, the online version of BFBS does not have anything
> > about Basho's roadie-
> > > this sounds like a VERY interesting extra on your tape.
> > >
> > > If anyone here hasn't already got hold of these recordings and would
> > like to here them, i'd
> > > be happy to attempt to upload them both to rapidshare.
> > >
> > > Likewise, if anyone has managed to find some other basho rarity
> > lurking around and you
> > > want to tell everybody about it, this is the place...
> > >
> > > Finally, good luck to Robin in his mammoth (and very worthwhile)
> > transcription task!
> > >
> > >
> > > RD
> > >
> > > --- In robbiebasho_forum@yahoogroups.com, "altmark47" robin_ward@
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In robbiebasho_forum@yahoogroups.com, "artpaws" <artpaws@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Robin,
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for your kind offer. I think I share with you some
> > > > misgivings
> > > > > about even the remote possibility of losing a rather unique
> > > > cassette
> > > > > tape. Therefore, your kind offer of working up a transcription of
> > > > > certain sections of the interview as a file for the forum sounds
> > > > like a
> > > > > super idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > FWIW, I found the German radio station mentioned on-line and e-
> > > > mailed
> > > > > an inquiry about the decades old interviews and performances. Who
> > > > > knows, maybe they've got a great archivist. One can hope that the
> > > > > German penchant for organization might produce some interesting
> > > > results.
> > > > >
> > > > > Several years ago, when I first met Glenn Jones on-line through
> > > > one of
> > > > > those strange internet connections, I made a few attempts to crack
> > > > the
> > > > > Sufi connection to Basho, with the particular order Robbie
> > > > belonged to
> > > > > up in Walnut Creek. It is a separate splinter from mainstream
> > > > Sufism
> > > > > in America, because of its belief in Meher Baba. I was only able
> > > > to
> > > > > scare up a couple of people who knew Robbie back in the 1980's in
> > > > the
> > > > > Sufi order, but no real substantive information.
> > > > >
> > > > > all the best,
> > > > > Rich
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello again,
> > > >
> > > > Great, I'll start working on a transcription and will be in touch
> > > > again, as soon as I've got a section finished I'll post it on the
> > > > forum.
> > > >
> > > > BFBS isn't actually a German station, though I think it's based here
> > > > somewhere (it stands for British Forces Broadcasting Service). Must
> > > > have been quite a coup for them to land an interview with Robbie
> > ....
> > > >
> > > > If you do hear anything from BFBS about this broadcast, let me know!
> > > >
> > > > Bye for now -
> > > > Robin
> > > >
> > >
> >
>