Hi Andy,

You're suggestion seems very plausible, the idea of slackening the strings like
that is very
common, but there are a few things that i'm not so sure about.

Firstly- (just to make sure) you're suggesting that the tuning used for
Variations on Clair
de Lune (on the art od acoustic lp) is...

Ab Eb Ab Eb Ab C, this being normal C tuning tuned down 4 frets?

Ok.

This is an interesting suggestion, partly because (as you can see from the
asterisks next to
clair de lune and others) i was never really satisfied by the DGDGBD tuning i
came up with.
This was because a) it does seem too high for a 12-string, the D is even a
little sharp. I've
never played a 12-string but i can't imagine it makes much sense being tuned so
high.The
trouble is the extra strings make it sufficiently more complicated, especially
if you're trying
to work out the tuning using a 6-string. This leads into point b)- this is
something i never
got to the bottom of, but believe it would be extremely obvious to someone
familiar with
the 12-string (such as yourself). You can hear it very well in the final
harmonic strums-
the notes seem to go D G B, or highest-low-high, as if (in G tuning) you were
playing the
1st, 3rd and 2nd strings in that order. I'm not doing a very good job of
explaining this
point, perhaps my footnote on the tunings guide will be more clear-

* - Here it sounds like RB has inverted the usual GBD tonic triad
found in regular G tuning by re-stringing his guitar 6,5,4,1,3,2. The
two adjacent D notes are an octave apart. All songs are played on the
12-string. (Alternatively it could just be that the added 4th string,
tuned an octave higher is ringing out, giving the impression of this
rearrangement of tones... is this common on 12-string?)

I'd be very interested to know what you make of this, it's something that can be
heard on a
number of his recordings, i think first on Song of God off The Falconer's Arm
II.

I'm also intrigued by your conclusion that it is in open c tuning (in
arrangement of notes if
not in pitch). I had another crack at it just now and arrived at G again, i
think this can be
fairly clearly heard in the opening where it goes (on the top two strings) -

0 (D) 12 (D) 9 (B)
0 (B) 12 (B) 8 (G)

Clearly expressing the root triad. Of course you could play the following
couplets in C,
but the initial open strings imply the minor 3rd (B - D), in C tuning you don't
get that.
Nevertheless, for the reasons i just mentioned, G (DGDGBD) just never felt
totally right. I
suppose this also stems from some assumption that, especially on this record,
Basho was
more of a C-man, especially when playing these bright 'classical' style pieces.

So would you agree with this diagnosis? If you're convinced it's in C tuning
(CGCGCE or
equivalent), perhaps you could explain why, i'm definitely open to persuasion!
As a matter
of fact, you're in very good company- Steffen Basho-Junghans also thinks it's in
C! Click
on the 'style' section for his take on some other Basho tunings-

www.bluemomentarts.de


Cheers,
Robbie




--- In robbiebasho_forum@yahoogroups.com, "acoustic_andy" <acoustic_andy@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Robbie,
> It's great to see you've started a Basho forum, many thanks for
> setting it up.
> I play a lot of 12 string guitar, and I'd like to share my
> observations about tuning, specfically re Variations on Clair de Lune.
> My approach to 12 string is actually a reasonably common one. I use
> medium gauge strings ( 13 - 56 ) paired with proportionally heavier
> octave strings and tune the whole guitar down 2 whole steps ( 4 frets
> ). This places the guitar in std tuning with but C as your open 6
> string note. The guitar is now tuned ( from 6th to 1st ) C, F, B flat,
> E flat, G, C. I believe Robbie Basho did this as well, as did Leo
> Kottke, and Lead Belly ( who used very heavy strings and tuned to B)
> From this low standard tuning, I then retune the guitar into various
> open or altered tunings.
> With regard to Clair de Lune, I take my low tuned 12 string and use
> the following approach. 6th string lowered 2 whole tones, 5th lowered
> one whole tone, 4th lowered 1 whole tone, 3rd as is, 2nd raised 1
> semitone, 1st as is. This is analogous to open C when in E std tuning.
> The 12 string guitar is now tuned to ( 6th to 1st ) A flat, E flat,
> A flat, E flat, A flat, C.
> Try playing the 12th, 7th, and 5th fret harmonics as Robbie does as
> the end of the song.
> This is actually more complicated to explain than it really is, but
> I hope I have been reasonably clear.
>
> All the Best for now
> Andy Miller
>