Spot on Tony, the 'average' system works in the favour of the big players. In
my own case I'm lucky enough to get a lot of ABC play on a national basis, so
that filters down and rounds out but localised artists really suffer from this
or some acts like the Gadflys who get a lot of play in a concentrated period of
time can go either way, average out to a lot or very little. The lack of
community reports have meant many get less, as for the PPCA that is a whole
other crap-shoot. K
PS my airplay tracks are distributed to over 600 people or stations on a little
combined artist 'showbag' Mick Hamilton & I set up and it is working well in
terms of exposure. The latest one has a track from me, Mick, Ross Wilson,
Lyndsay Hammond and six others and they are all getting played.

Tony Jaggers wrote:

> On the Button....very few people do understand the role of APRA but there is
> a point
> thats been niggling me over the past years.
> When I started in Community Radio in '89 we lived in dread of "Apra Week"
> which came about
> every couple of months.....during this week ALL music to air had to be
> recorded on an
> appropriate Apra form with Title, Artist, Composer and Catalogue Nos. My job
> at the end of the week was to fill in all the missing details that
> announcers missed either through stupidity,
> old age or apathy...it was a big job.
> Six years ago this given the flick with Apra stating they would "average"
> out what was played.
> All Community Radios were exempt the reporting and (I understand) a lot of
> regional stations.
> Average What!! How does Apra have an inkling of what these hundreds of
> stations are playing.
> If for example a new CD by Keith Glass was distributed to all community
> stations on release
> and just suppose everyone loved it and flogged it to death there would be no
> way Keith would
> benefit from that extra playing.
> The Gadflys did a Community Radio tour some years ago and as did 2EAR FM a
> lot of
> stations playlisted Gadflys material as a promotional tool........but theres
> no way this would have been taken into the averaging by Apra.
> Apra do a great job and they are vital to an artists income but is this
> system fair
>
> Tony
>
> MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
>
> http://milesago.gq.nu
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

APRA suggest any unusual or heavy use of a song you report to them as they
may not pick it up, also anytime you do an original on TV, tell 'em. My
biggest song reported by last year by APRA though, was among the smallest
through PPCA - now some-one is going to ask "What's PPCA?' It is a performer
based royalty organisation, funded from various sources and you gotta be in
it to get it.
It really is luck of draw - one year I got 3 times as much from PPCA as
APRA, last  year the reverse, you just pray for a good cheque! K

Narrell Brown wrote:

>
> Keith, you would know - do you still have to do your own tracking of
> your own works and put in the songwriters return to APRA?
> If so, that is probably the only way they have of knowing what's going
> on but it is pretty hard for a songwriter to tune into every radio
> station in the country to hear their stuff and because playlists are not
> recorded it is pretty hard to find out what stations are even playing
> the songs.
>
> Very tricky indeed!
>
> --
> Narrell
> *~*~
> Jaybee's Entertainment - check us out at
> http://www.jaybees.com.au
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> Vote for us via the Hit Squad MP3 button.
> Proudly running on a Mac - rejecting .exe files
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>
> MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
>
> http://milesago.gq.nu
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject: FBi Radio - Sydney's Newest Radio - Needs Your Membership

Sydney's Most Exciting News In Years!

(Please take the time to read and act on this email and forward it to
all your friends -  apologies to those who receive
this more than once)

By now you've probably heard that after 6 years of campaigning, FBi
Radio was last week granted a permanent
full-time Metropolitan community radio licence by the ABA. This will
change Sydney forever. For starters FBI has
a programming policy of playing 50% Australian music, half of which must
be music made by Sydney artists. FBi
will operate on 94.5FM and has 12 months to launch what will be the most
powerful community radio service in
Australia.


Your Station

The most immediate objective for FBi is to increase membership levels to
ensure that it remains healthy and fully
representative. As a member, you will be a part owner and it will be YOU
who determines the future of the station.
You will be entitled to vote, attend meetings, nominate and elect board
members, and influence the style of programs
and music to be played - in short, you will control the station. You
will receive regular updates on what's going on
and be given full opportunity to participate on all levels. Lastly, your
membership fees will make a valuable
contribution towards purchasing broadcast equipment, stocking the music
library, renting new studios, etc.

So here's what we need from you - BECOME A MEMBER RIGHT NOW - not in 2
months time, but today.
Many people have sacrificed time and money to give Sydney this
opportunity and now it's your turn to stand up and
be counted. This also applies to all previous members whose 12 month
subscription has lapsed. FBi is aiming to
attract over 1000 new members in the next 2 weeks.


Costs

FBi Membership costs $20 per year for waged applicants, $10 for unwaged
or uni students, and $5 for school
students.

There are a number of different ways to join


Online

For those with credit cards, visit www.fbiradio.org.au and you can
register and pay online immediately.


By Post

Attached is an FBi Application form. Simply print this, fill out
details, enclose cheque, money order or credit card
details and post to FBi Memberships, PO Box 1962, Strawberry Hills,
2010.


In Person

Membership can be obtained in person by paying cash, cheque or supplying
credit card details at any of the following
outlets:

Fish Records Wynyard (285 George Street) - 9279 4598
Fish Records Bondi Junction (468 Oxford Street) - 9388 9641
Fish Records Broadway (Level 2, Broadway Shopping Centre) - 9281 3735
Fish Records Newtown (261 King Street) - 9557 3074
Whammo (89 York Street, City) - 9262 4120
Troy Horse Studios (44-54 Botany Road, Alexandria) - 9319 1799

This is just the beginning. FBi intends to ad other outlets in the
greater metro area in the near future.

For any further information, please visit the FBi website at
www.fbiradio.org.au or email FBi at
stephanie@....

Lastly, you are invited to Celebratory & Celebrity drinks at The
Hopetoun Hotel this Monday 4th June from 8.00
pm.

--
Narrell
*~*~
Jaybee's Entertainment - check us out at
http://www.jaybees.com.au
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Vote for us via the Hit Squad MP3 button.
Proudly running on a Mac - rejecting .exe files
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Hi Dunks , Just a couple of things

How do I take up your generous offer for KINKy discs -- What sort or brand
of Discs (Cd-R's I presume) do you want me to purchase and how many?? Do you
still want that rare-ish single of Gods children ??

Secondly, Ma brother jase  and his act Neuropa cracked it big time in the US
(relatively)   They have just won the award for "Best international Act " in
the Synthpop network  in LA  . it was part of the SYNth Con Held recently --
Sponsored by Lexicon magazine .  Look, You guys might not like the kind of
music , Depechece Modish sort of stuff  a bit like erasure-- But what the
hell - Best international Act is nothing to be sneezed at - they had some
big competition!!!

Blasty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 11:00
Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera


> Brian - happy to make CD-R copies for you if you'd rather? I was lucky
> enough to be able to get the whole Kinks 60s/early 70s katalog when I was
> working for HMV in 1990. Been a mainstay of my listening ever since.
>
> Needless to say they've all been remastered with bonus tracks since then
> (XTC and Peter Gabriel remasters are now in the offing too ...*sigh* ...
> bought all of them too ... ) but I have all the Kinks albums up to and
> including LOLA, an excellent Castle "Greatest Hits" compilation which has
> all the important non-album  singles like 'Dedicated Follower', 'Autumn
> Almanac', etc, and the recent-ish "To The Bone" live double CD whihc is
> really good.
>
> Dunks
>
>
> >From: "Brian Last" <blasty@...>
> >Reply-To: rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:45:58 +1000
> >
> >I may not be totally familiar with the albums sequences etc but weren't
> >those songs fan bloody tastic --Id forgotten picture book and dandy--
green
> >day DID ripoff that riff I thought that too but my wife & kids don't
> >remember the song !!   I seem to remember that Arthur was touted as an
> >"opera" at the time ...... One day with your permission, I'd like to tape
> >some of your records to catch up on those KiNky songs that I don't
have!!!!
> >I absolutely love them!!!
> >
> >Blasty
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
> >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 12:16
> >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> >
> >
> > > Brian writ:
> > >
> > > >dunks I seem to remember the kinks album was called Arfur and it was
> > >sold
> > > >as a rock opera -- whats this album called Face to face ?? The one
>im
> > > >thinking of had Victoria on it , from memory !! Tommy certainly had
> > >the
> > > >structure of an opera with overtures etc I don't remember the
>American
> > > >stuff (personal preference I guess) Whilst I agree Pet sounds >was a
> > > >concept album I wouldn't have categorised it as rock Opera >Similarly
> >with
> > > >ogden Nut  gone flake (Fabbo Stuff)
> > >
> > > "Arthur, or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire" came out in
> >about
> > > '69 I think,
> > >
> > > It was the one after their previous concept(ish) album, the wonderful
> >'The
> > > Village Green Preservation Society' -- my favourite Kinks record. That
> >was
> > > the album that had "Last of the Steam-Powered Trains", which Ed
Kuepper
> > > covered a few years ago, and "Picture Book" which some US indy band
> >covered
> > > a while back, and from which Green Day nicked the riff for their
latest
> > > single.)
> > >
> > > 'Arthur' falls more into the concept album category for me -- it was
> > > actually commissioned as the incidental music for a TV play that ended
> >up
> > > never being made. Not strictly a "rock opera", I suppose.
> > >
> > > "Face to Face" came out in '66  - it's the album that had "Sunny
> >Afternoon",
> > > "Session Man", "Most Exclusive Residence For Sale", "House In The
> >Country",
> > > "Dandy" (one of my earliest memories from radio in the 60s) and "Two
> > > Sisters", one of Ray's all-time greatest songs IMO. Fabulous album,
> > > plundered relentlessly by Blur ca. "Ballad Of A Charmless Man".
> > >
> > > Dunks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >_________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >http://www.hotmail.com.
> > >
> > >
> > > MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
> > >
> > > http://milesago.gq.nu
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
> MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
>
> http://milesago.gq.nu
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Congratulations to him Brian and just an illustration of sticking your guns and
keeping at it against incredible odds and winning - I probably wouldn't like
what they do but I defend their right to do it rather than being sucked into
the corporate vortex of passivity that is Playstation, DVD or whatever.
Whatever your creative field of endevour it is a major achievement to get
recognition. Too many talented people have allowed themselves to be run over,
trampled, stood on - just keep doing it! K

Brian Last wrote:

> Hi Dunks , Just a couple of things
>
> How do I take up your generous offer for KINKy discs -- What sort or brand
> of Discs (Cd-R's I presume) do you want me to purchase and how many?? Do you
> still want that rare-ish single of Gods children ??
>
> Secondly, Ma brother jase  and his act Neuropa cracked it big time in the US
> (relatively)   They have just won the award for "Best international Act " in
> the Synthpop network  in LA  . it was part of the SYNth Con Held recently --
> Sponsored by Lexicon magazine .  Look, You guys might not like the kind of
> music , Depechece Modish sort of stuff  a bit like erasure-- But what the
> hell - Best international Act is nothing to be sneezed at - they had some
> big competition!!!
>
> Blasty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
> To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 11:00
> Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
>
> > Brian - happy to make CD-R copies for you if you'd rather? I was lucky
> > enough to be able to get the whole Kinks 60s/early 70s katalog when I was
> > working for HMV in 1990. Been a mainstay of my listening ever since.
> >
> > Needless to say they've all been remastered with bonus tracks since then
> > (XTC and Peter Gabriel remasters are now in the offing too ...*sigh* ...
> > bought all of them too ... ) but I have all the Kinks albums up to and
> > including LOLA, an excellent Castle "Greatest Hits" compilation which has
> > all the important non-album  singles like 'Dedicated Follower', 'Autumn
> > Almanac', etc, and the recent-ish "To The Bone" live double CD whihc is
> > really good.
> >
> > Dunks
> >
> >
> > >From: "Brian Last" <blasty@...>
> > >Reply-To: rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> > >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:45:58 +1000
> > >
> > >I may not be totally familiar with the albums sequences etc but weren't
> > >those songs fan bloody tastic --Id forgotten picture book and dandy--
> green
> > >day DID ripoff that riff I thought that too but my wife & kids don't
> > >remember the song !!   I seem to remember that Arthur was touted as an
> > >"opera" at the time ...... One day with your permission, I'd like to tape
> > >some of your records to catch up on those KiNky songs that I don't
> have!!!!
> > >I absolutely love them!!!
> > >
> > >Blasty
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
> > >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 12:16
> > >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> > >
> > >
> > > > Brian writ:
> > > >
> > > > >dunks I seem to remember the kinks album was called Arfur and it was
> > > >sold
> > > > >as a rock opera -- whats this album called Face to face ?? The one
> >im
> > > > >thinking of had Victoria on it , from memory !! Tommy certainly had
> > > >the
> > > > >structure of an opera with overtures etc I don't remember the
> >American
> > > > >stuff (personal preference I guess) Whilst I agree Pet sounds >was a
> > > > >concept album I wouldn't have categorised it as rock Opera >Similarly
> > >with
> > > > >ogden Nut  gone flake (Fabbo Stuff)
> > > >
> > > > "Arthur, or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire" came out in
> > >about
> > > > '69 I think,
> > > >
> > > > It was the one after their previous concept(ish) album, the wonderful
> > >'The
> > > > Village Green Preservation Society' -- my favourite Kinks record. That
> > >was
> > > > the album that had "Last of the Steam-Powered Trains", which Ed
> Kuepper
> > > > covered a few years ago, and "Picture Book" which some US indy band
> > >covered
> > > > a while back, and from which Green Day nicked the riff for their
> latest
> > > > single.)
> > > >
> > > > 'Arthur' falls more into the concept album category for me -- it was
> > > > actually commissioned as the incidental music for a TV play that ended
> > >up
> > > > never being made. Not strictly a "rock opera", I suppose.
> > > >
> > > > "Face to Face" came out in '66  - it's the album that had "Sunny
> > >Afternoon",
> > > > "Session Man", "Most Exclusive Residence For Sale", "House In The
> > >Country",
> > > > "Dandy" (one of my earliest memories from radio in the 60s) and "Two
> > > > Sisters", one of Ray's all-time greatest songs IMO. Fabulous album,
> > > > plundered relentlessly by Blur ca. "Ballad Of A Charmless Man".
> > > >
> > > > Dunks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > >http://www.hotmail.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
> > > >
> > > > http://milesago.gq.nu
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> >
> > MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
> >
> > http://milesago.gq.nu
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
>
> http://milesago.gq.nu
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Achievements such as your Brother's act has made, should always be
acknowledged and applauded ... of course in music it is a case of
"different strokes for different folx" but regardless, I reckon everyone
would be proud to hear of "Neuropa" being lauded in the States.
Pass on our congrats to him Blasty.

--
Narrell
*~*~
Jaybee's Entertainment - check us out at
http://www.jaybees.com.au
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Vote for us via the Hit Squad MP3 button.
Proudly running on a Mac - rejecting .exe files
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Brian

re: Kins CDs - sure - go for it. I think TDK discs are pretty cheap - try
HMV or somwhere like that, maybe K-Mart? Not sure how much they are, but you
could check with Paul -- I'll be pinging him for the use of his CD-R while
I'm in Canberra this weekend hahah. I wouldn't expect to pay more than 15-20
bucks for a box of ten. Probably less - shop around.

Anyway if you can get hold of a box of ten, I'll copy all those albums for
you. I have Kinks, Kinda Kinks, Kinks Kontroversy, Live at Kelvin Hall, Face
To Face. Something Else, Village Green, Arthur, Lola, a good Castle
'greatest hits' which has some good singles tracks like Autumn Almanac.
That's ten, so that'll give me something to go on with.

Let me know and I can pop oer and pikc them up if you like - give me an
excuse to get out of the house!

Cheers

Dunks

>Hi Dunks , Just a couple of things
>
>How do I take up your generous offer for KINKy discs -- What sort or brand
>of Discs (Cd-R's I presume) do you want me to purchase and how many?? Do
>you
>still want that rare-ish single of Gods children ??
>
>Secondly, Ma brother jase  and his act Neuropa cracked it big time in the
>US
>(relatively)   They have just won the award for "Best international Act "
>in
>the Synthpop network  in LA  . it was part of the SYNth Con Held recently
>--
>Sponsored by Lexicon magazine .  Look, You guys might not like the kind of
>music , Depechece Modish sort of stuff  a bit like erasure-- But what the
>hell - Best international Act is nothing to be sneezed at - they had some
>big competition!!!
>
>Blasty
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
>To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 11:00
>Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
>
>
> > Brian - happy to make CD-R copies for you if you'd rather? I was lucky
> > enough to be able to get the whole Kinks 60s/early 70s katalog when I
>was
> > working for HMV in 1990. Been a mainstay of my listening ever since.
> >
> > Needless to say they've all been remastered with bonus tracks since then
> > (XTC and Peter Gabriel remasters are now in the offing too ...*sigh* ...
> > bought all of them too ... ) but I have all the Kinks albums up to and
> > including LOLA, an excellent Castle "Greatest Hits" compilation which
>has
> > all the important non-album  singles like 'Dedicated Follower', 'Autumn
> > Almanac', etc, and the recent-ish "To The Bone" live double CD whihc is
> > really good.
> >
> > Dunks
> >
> >
> > >From: "Brian Last" <blasty@...>
> > >Reply-To: rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> > >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:45:58 +1000
> > >
> > >I may not be totally familiar with the albums sequences etc but weren't
> > >those songs fan bloody tastic --Id forgotten picture book and dandy--
>green
> > >day DID ripoff that riff I thought that too but my wife & kids don't
> > >remember the song !!   I seem to remember that Arthur was touted as an
> > >"opera" at the time ...... One day with your permission, I'd like to
>tape
> > >some of your records to catch up on those KiNky songs that I don't
>have!!!!
> > >I absolutely love them!!!
> > >
> > >Blasty
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
> > >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 12:16
> > >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> > >
> > >
> > > > Brian writ:
> > > >
> > > > >dunks I seem to remember the kinks album was called Arfur and it
>was
> > > >sold
> > > > >as a rock opera -- whats this album called Face to face ?? The one
> >im
> > > > >thinking of had Victoria on it , from memory !! Tommy certainly had
> > > >the
> > > > >structure of an opera with overtures etc I don't remember the
> >American
> > > > >stuff (personal preference I guess) Whilst I agree Pet sounds >was
>a
> > > > >concept album I wouldn't have categorised it as rock Opera
> >Similarly
> > >with
> > > > >ogden Nut  gone flake (Fabbo Stuff)
> > > >
> > > > "Arthur, or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire" came out in
> > >about
> > > > '69 I think,
> > > >
> > > > It was the one after their previous concept(ish) album, the
>wonderful
> > >'The
> > > > Village Green Preservation Society' -- my favourite Kinks record.
>That
> > >was
> > > > the album that had "Last of the Steam-Powered Trains", which Ed
>Kuepper
> > > > covered a few years ago, and "Picture Book" which some US indy band
> > >covered
> > > > a while back, and from which Green Day nicked the riff for their
>latest
> > > > single.)
> > > >
> > > > 'Arthur' falls more into the concept album category for me -- it was
> > > > actually commissioned as the incidental music for a TV play that
>ended
> > >up
> > > > never being made. Not strictly a "rock opera", I suppose.
> > > >
> > > > "Face to Face" came out in '66  - it's the album that had "Sunny
> > >Afternoon",
> > > > "Session Man", "Most Exclusive Residence For Sale", "House In The
> > >Country",
> > > > "Dandy" (one of my earliest memories from radio in the 60s) and "Two
> > > > Sisters", one of Ray's all-time greatest songs IMO. Fabulous album,
> > > > plundered relentlessly by Blur ca. "Ballad Of A Charmless Man".
> > > >
> > > > Dunks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > >http://www.hotmail.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
> > > >
> > > > http://milesago.gq.nu
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> >
> > MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
> >
> > http://milesago.gq.nu
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Brian

Forgot to offer warmest congrats on your brother's success - that's really
well done. Admittedly not my taste as a style, but some of that stuff is
good, and credit where it's due!

Actually I quite liked that outfit "Euphoria" (?). I think that's the name
anyway  -- the guy behind it was the son of Robert Klippel, the well-known
Aussie artist and all round genius, so maybe that influenced me! hahah

And it also shows we are still beating the world in all areas of music, so
good on him!

Dunks
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

AND YOU'LL BE SENDING RAY DAVIES SOMETHING? K

Duncan Kimball wrote:

> Brian
>
> re: Kins CDs - sure - go for it. I think TDK discs are pretty cheap - try
> HMV or somwhere like that, maybe K-Mart? Not sure how much they are, but you
> could check with Paul -- I'll be pinging him for the use of his CD-R while
> I'm in Canberra this weekend hahah. I wouldn't expect to pay more than 15-20
> bucks for a box of ten. Probably less - shop around.
>
> Anyway if you can get hold of a box of ten, I'll copy all those albums for
> you. I have Kinks, Kinda Kinks, Kinks Kontroversy, Live at Kelvin Hall, Face
> To Face. Something Else, Village Green, Arthur, Lola, a good Castle
> 'greatest hits' which has some good singles tracks like Autumn Almanac.
> That's ten, so that'll give me something to go on with.
>
> Let me know and I can pop oer and pikc them up if you like - give me an
> excuse to get out of the house!
>
> Cheers
>
> Dunks
>
> >Hi Dunks , Just a couple of things
> >
> >How do I take up your generous offer for KINKy discs -- What sort or brand
> >of Discs (Cd-R's I presume) do you want me to purchase and how many?? Do
> >you
> >still want that rare-ish single of Gods children ??
> >
> >Secondly, Ma brother jase  and his act Neuropa cracked it big time in the
> >US
> >(relatively)   They have just won the award for "Best international Act "
> >in
> >the Synthpop network  in LA  . it was part of the SYNth Con Held recently
> >--
> >Sponsored by Lexicon magazine .  Look, You guys might not like the kind of
> >music , Depechece Modish sort of stuff  a bit like erasure-- But what the
> >hell - Best international Act is nothing to be sneezed at - they had some
> >big competition!!!
> >
> >Blasty
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
> >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 11:00
> >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> >
> >
> > > Brian - happy to make CD-R copies for you if you'd rather? I was lucky
> > > enough to be able to get the whole Kinks 60s/early 70s katalog when I
> >was
> > > working for HMV in 1990. Been a mainstay of my listening ever since.
> > >
> > > Needless to say they've all been remastered with bonus tracks since then
> > > (XTC and Peter Gabriel remasters are now in the offing too ...*sigh* ...
> > > bought all of them too ... ) but I have all the Kinks albums up to and
> > > including LOLA, an excellent Castle "Greatest Hits" compilation which
> >has
> > > all the important non-album  singles like 'Dedicated Follower', 'Autumn
> > > Almanac', etc, and the recent-ish "To The Bone" live double CD whihc is
> > > really good.
> > >
> > > Dunks
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Brian Last" <blasty@...>
> > > >Reply-To: rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> > > >Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 18:45:58 +1000
> > > >
> > > >I may not be totally familiar with the albums sequences etc but weren't
> > > >those songs fan bloody tastic --Id forgotten picture book and dandy--
> >green
> > > >day DID ripoff that riff I thought that too but my wife & kids don't
> > > >remember the song !!   I seem to remember that Arthur was touted as an
> > > >"opera" at the time ...... One day with your permission, I'd like to
> >tape
> > > >some of your records to catch up on those KiNky songs that I don't
> >have!!!!
> > > >I absolutely love them!!!
> > > >
> > > >Blasty
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@...>
> > > >To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Monday, 21 May 2001 12:16
> > > >Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] Rock Opera
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Brian writ:
> > > > >
> > > > > >dunks I seem to remember the kinks album was called Arfur and it
> >was
> > > > >sold
> > > > > >as a rock opera -- whats this album called Face to face ?? The one
> > >im
> > > > > >thinking of had Victoria on it , from memory !! Tommy certainly had
> > > > >the
> > > > > >structure of an opera with overtures etc I don't remember the
> > >American
> > > > > >stuff (personal preference I guess) Whilst I agree Pet sounds >was
> >a
> > > > > >concept album I wouldn't have categorised it as rock Opera
> > >Similarly
> > > >with
> > > > > >ogden Nut  gone flake (Fabbo Stuff)
> > > > >
> > > > > "Arthur, or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire" came out in
> > > >about
> > > > > '69 I think,
> > > > >
> > > > > It was the one after their previous concept(ish) album, the
> >wonderful
> > > >'The
> > > > > Village Green Preservation Society' -- my favourite Kinks record.
> >That
> > > >was
> > > > > the album that had "Last of the Steam-Powered Trains", which Ed
> >Kuepper
> > > > > covered a few years ago, and "Picture Book" which some US indy band
> > > >covered
> > > > > a while back, and from which Green Day nicked the riff for their
> >latest
> > > > > single.)
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Arthur' falls more into the concept album category for me -- it was
> > > > > actually commissioned as the incidental music for a TV play that
> >ended
> > > >up
> > > > > never being made. Not strictly a "rock opera", I suppose.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Face to Face" came out in '66  - it's the album that had "Sunny
> > > >Afternoon",
> > > > > "Session Man", "Most Exclusive Residence For Sale", "House In The
> > > >Country",
> > > > > "Dandy" (one of my earliest memories from radio in the 60s) and "Two
> > > > > Sisters", one of Ray's all-time greatest songs IMO. Fabulous album,
> > > > > plundered relentlessly by Blur ca. "Ballad Of A Charmless Man".
> > > > >
> > > > > Dunks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > > >http://www.hotmail.com.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
> > > > >
> > > > > http://milesago.gq.nu
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >_________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >http://www.hotmail.com.
> > >
> > >
> > > MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
> > >
> > > http://milesago.gq.nu
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
>
> http://milesago.gq.nu
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

onya Keith - that was also running thru my head.



--
Narrell
*~*~
Jaybee's Entertainment - check us out at
http://www.jaybees.com.au
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Vote for us via the Hit Squad MP3 button.
Proudly running on a Mac - rejecting .exe files
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

--- In rocknroll-scars@y..., Keith Glass <kglass@o...> wrote:
> AND YOU'LL BE SENDING RAY DAVIES SOMETHING? K
>
Hmmm, well said, Keith. Considering the problems local artists have
with record companies and the likes of APRA - well-documented on this
list - it seems a little inconsistent to be pirating Kinks stuff that
is easily available at retail.

No compelling reason for EMI to sanction a reissue of the Spectrum
back catalogue (to cite just one example) if people will just make
their own copies.

Steve

I got your address from Chris Spencer. Can you please add me to your mailing
list.
Regards,
Graeme Brown

PLeased to have you Graeme! I'll add you right away (and thanks to Chris for
recommending us to you).

Hope you enjoy it!

Duncan


>From: Graeme Brown <brg@...>
>Reply-To: rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com
>To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [rocknroll-scars] Mailing List
>Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:24:50 +0800
>
>I got your address from Chris Spencer. Can you please add me to your
>mailing
>list.
>Regards,
>Graeme Brown
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

OK OK point taken. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. Mea Nancy Culpa.

To respond:

1. OBVIOUSLY I do not advocate bootlegging. I also don't advocate breaking
the speed limit but, hey, we all do THAT sometimes too.

2. Gimme a break! If I had said "cassette" instead of "CD-R", would we even
be having this conversation? Sheesh ...

3. The emails were -- obviously -- meant to be a private msgs between me and
Brian. These things happen. Sorry that it wasn't off list as it should have
been - lack of attention on my part.

4. These copies are intended for PRIVATE use: no covers are being printed,
no money is changing hands, no-one is flogging them off at Balmain Markets.
HOME USE, OK?? That's permitted isn't it?

5. I'm sure that if Brian decides he REALLY likes any of these albums
sufficiently, then he'll do the right thing and buy the official copies.

6. Hands up who has *no* illegally copied CD-R's on their shelves? Who
HASN'T used Napster? Who among you is without sin, let him/her cast the
first MP3.

7. Seeing we're so concerned about trade practices, I would point out that
Castle have issued the Kinks' Pye albums at least twice, most recently as
remastered versions, with bonus tracks and liner notes.

Now as a consumer with very little disposable income (well very little
income at all, really) to me this (A) stinks and (B) REALLY begs the
question of why record companies don't do that in the first place.

(Answer: to make us buy them twice).

This shits me immensely. I bought all the LPs. Dutifully, I bought all the
CDs when *they* came out. Just like I did with Hendrix, Peter Gabriel and
XTC and all the rest.

I pay my way, as a rule, but my Kinks CDs -- while precious to me -- are now
cod-ordinary, bargain-bin filler, expensive drinks coasters. Their resale
value is virtually nil, although they cost me more to buy in 1990 than the
Castle reissues are worth now, adjusted for inflation.

So forgive me if I don't feel any especial sense of guilt about copying
outdated, inferior versions of albums that -- if I want the latest and
"best" version -- I would now be obliged to buy for the THIRD time.

And if EMI and the other companies

(A) actually gave a toss about their back catalogue -- which they patently
don't -- and

(B) had anyone with half a brain and some entrepreneurial sense working for
them, which is even less likely,

then they'd have long ago hauled out the Spectrum and Tully and Shud tapes
(which I might add have probably long since vanished), fixed them up, and
offered them through a CUSTOM CD-R copying service for albums on request,
for which we could pay an appropriate fee to cover costs and royalties
(which they never bloody pay anyway - just ask Tim Gaze).

So don't come the bleeding heart with me about the "poor old record
companies". They are NOT being held back from releasing these albums because
of the looming spectre of domestic CD-R copying. They don't release them
because they DON'T CARE.

They don't give a flying f*** about this music, as evidenced by the
discgraceful treatment of people like Tim, the unforgiveable loss of the
Ariel master tapes that Mike and Bill have uncovered, etc etc.

Guilt-trip me over the artists, sure, but if you think you're gonna make me
feel bad because I'm hurting a record company -- think again.

And if anyone cares to work out what I'd owe Ray for copying the CDs, and
has his address, then I'd be glad to post him a cheque. Ought to come to
slightly less than the cost of the postage, I imagine.

Penitentially yours,

Dunks
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

I think we would all agree Dunks has made a very fine case for atoning
his sins!
Do we all agree he is forgiven?

P.S. I don't have any CD-R bootlegs and have long since replaced any
cassette "copy" albums with the real thing. Does that make me pure?

Everything in my collection is the "real thing".

Good point about how we buy everything three times tho Dunks - I know I
have often been caught in this cycle. Not making the artists rich but
certainly lining the Record company pockets.

I think Royalties amount to about .07 cents a song don't they? Better
off buying him a beer than sending him a cheque.




--
Narrell
*~*~
Jaybee's Entertainment - check us out at
http://www.jaybees.com.au
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Vote for us via the Hit Squad MP3 button.
Proudly running on a Mac - rejecting .exe files
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Hey Dunks....it would be well worth a few bob (oops gave my age away) just
to get Rays
address and or email...
To that list of desired re-releases (Tully, Spectrum etc) add Kharvas Jute
and I'd be buying
the lot.
Tony

THE 2001 MUSOZ CHALLENGE

Sony Music Entertainment has agreed to peruse the 2001 MUSOZ Challenge CD, a compilation of the 15 category winners and i98FM Peoples Choice Award winner to choose at least one entrant to embark on a Sony Music Entertainment development package including up to $4,000 recording time at the prestigious Sony Music Studios.

The 2001 MUSOZ Challenge CD will also be distributed internationally with biographies of all category winners by Australian Music Marketing Abroad in conjunction with New Australian Music Magazine at New Music tradeshows (where many overseas labels go to look for new talent).These tradeshows include MIDEM (France), the worlds largest music tradeshow, as well as other shows in Europe and the US.

Still there’s more… there are also many encouragement awards that will be awarded as the competition continues…

To enter the competition, or for further information visit the Website www.musoz.org OR call (02) 4227 1715.

HURRY APPLICATIONS CLOSE 31 July 2001

Gidday All

For the TDKs the store with the name of a former chair of CASA has spindles
of 50 for ~$47. These days they have to be bloody good blanks for $2.

. I wouldn't expect to pay more than 15-20
>bucks for a box of ten. Probably less - shop around.
>
Dunks, your great mistake was to allow this communication to occur in public.
Your points in the later post express the dilemna we attempted to explore late
last year.
How to support the artist in a meaningful way without inadvertently lining the
pockets of record Co. executives with gold coin and the pockets of
musicians with  bottletops.

dAVE

--- In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@h...> wrote:
> OK OK point taken. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. Mea Nancy Culpa.
>
> To respond:


I saw this earlier on and was going to reply but thought better not
as I agree with Dunks,so here goes.

1)It was a personal transaction,no money involved,this is not illegal.
ie.Grateful Dead's live taping areas at their concerts.

2)Who hasn't used Napster?? I have and am very happy as I have access
to the world's music collections and can listen to things I normally
would have never heard and am now trying to buy legit as I like it so
much.

3)People, I'm not getting any younger and the older I get the less
patience I have with having to wait to hear albums from long ago that
only turn up at record fairs and of great rarity and priced
accordingly when I could get someone to make a copy and then I could
decide if I like it or not.Fact is till this forum I've never sat
down and talked about Oz music of this vintage with anyone,I didn't
know anyone to talk about it with and we should lay our cards on the
table(so to speak) and list what is in our collections on this board
so we can all see what we like and make copies for "NO PROFIT" so we
can all enjoy this stuff.

4)I would buy this stuff if it were available legitimately but so far
all Ive seen is CRAP,CRAP,CRAP.What reissues are out there are a
combination of disc dubs,tape masters,commercial reel to reel etc..
Ive got the Zoot CD which I understand is now out of print and the
booklet is just a piece of shit,it's just a F@#$%ing shitty shrunken
copy of the already shitty original LP cover,the only thing EMI did
as far as I can see with regards to the LP was bother to get the
front cover photo from a negative rather a copy of a mag but the back
cover photos are obviously from old music mags like Go-Set whose
paper stock was already shitty to start with.The essay hasn't been
updated,just a couldn't give a shit attitude,It would have been nice
if they could have added the remaining 4 or 5 songs that the band
released just to fill out the disc,it's only 46 min so space is no
problem but nyet!!
The La De Da's LEGEND CD also released around the same time,another
piece of shit(thankfully only $5)and the bloody thing plays entirely
in MONO(yes my dear people-MONO).Stuff recorded between 1971-74 in
glorious mono,when they stopped making mono mixes in mid '71,I
thought I was hearing things but there it was everything dead
centre,no stereo.Russell Morris' best of CD,the copy I have (the
latest repackage)has The Real Thing with one of the speaker channels
missing for the first 5-6 seconds of the song.I know they are only
budget releases but shit this is totally unacceptable quality
control,the mastering engineers should shot for such shit work,also
the Raven issue of The Loved Ones CD,an entire channel missing
thru'the whole disc,what is this? and they still leave it out there
for people to buy,what a disgrace!!

5)As Dunks has argued before and here again,the artists may not get
royalties anyhow as they are stuck with the same contract they signed
way back when ie Tamam Shud,record companies could use the tried and
tested "unrecouped" ploy where they claim they can't pay royalties
because they have never recouped the cost of recording and promoting
said record. So when you buy that CD made from disc dubs 'cause they
couldn't find the tapes,the only difference is that you are buying
an "official" pirate copy and the record company gets what it gets
while the "unofficial" pirate copy someone else makes the money,the
poor bastard in this sandwich is the artist who gets nothing from
either.Ive been reading posts on another chat group on country music
where there have been complaints about a German reissue label named
Bear Family,for those unfamiliar with them BF is easily the best
reissue label in the world they spare no expense when producing one
of their box sets,they release multi-disc sets on artists from the
entire spectrum of music and not because they are or were big sellers
but because they think they are worth it.Their specialty is country
music and 50's R&R but have branched out into other stuff like R&B
and classic pop.They think nothing of releasing a 10 CD box set on an
obscure country singer with a 100 pg book full w/
photos,essay,sessionography.Someone you may be familiar w/ is Roy
Orbison,his complete Sun,RCA,Monument recordings with alternate
takes,demos etc.. on 7 CD's with a 100+ pg LP size book in hardcover
and clothbound,not cheap as you can imagine but certainly well done.
Back to my story,on this board some people have mentioned that
certain artists who have had sets released by Bear Family have either
not been paid or have gotten very small royalties and the boss of
Bear Family has this trouble quite often but keeps a paper trail that
proves every time he was sued he had paid but the payments were given
to the record labels they licensed from so the majors are at fault
here,remember this is Europe,Oz is different again..This reissue gig
can be a real problem for small labels,it can be a legal minefield,I
don't think I'd want to try it.

4)Dunks,when a record company says "lost",it can be a euphemism
for"We couldn't give a stuff to really look for it,if it's not where
it's supposed to be,therefore it's lost".When a record company can
sniff money they will look in the vaults much harder for tapes but
alas old Oz stuff is not going to sell the numbers that the majors
want,they wouldn't run out of the shop but I believe would be
constant sellers.If you asked Sony U.S. 15 years ago could they call
up the master tapes for a band called The Rising Sons,a blues-rock
band featuring a pre- fame Ry Cooder and Taj Mahal they would have
said "No" but when got interested in issuing a CD of the band it took
them 2 years of searching their Iron Mountain tape facility to find
them and that was from the mouth of the reissue producer.

5)In all honesty what chance do we think we will see official
releases in Australia of albums like for example,Bakery's
MOMENTO,Greg Quill's FLEETWOOD PLAIN and Pirana's debut,let's say I
wouldn't hold my breath but I want to hear these albums so what's
wrong with me getting a copy as long as no profit is made,nothing as
far as I can see.

Ahh!! that feels better!!!

PS this is off-topic but had to mention.Ace records in England have
just released another CD on southern soul singer Arthur Alexander,it
covers his years on the Monument label,not only a feast of great
music by a unique singer/songwriter but an example of how to reissue
vintage music.If you like your soul music with a country flavour,your
gonna'love this one,also get the first CD they released on his Dot
records stuff(also on Ace)called The Greatest,it features his best
known stuff like Anna(Go To Him)(covered by The Beatles),A Shot Of
Rhythm and Blues (as before),You Better Move On (covered by the
Stones),Soldier of Love.AA,rather than most black singers who use
their larynx and vibrato notes,bends notes with his sinuses like a
country singer which makes him unique among soul singers of the
era,he was the guy that kicked off the interest in the Muscle Shoals
sound and he writes a great story song.Keith Glass would probably
already have both discs.




















>
> 1. OBVIOUSLY I do not advocate bootlegging. I also don't advocate
breaking
> the speed limit but, hey, we all do THAT sometimes too.
>
> 2. Gimme a break! If I had said "cassette" instead of "CD-R", would
we even
> be having this conversation? Sheesh ...
>
> 3. The emails were -- obviously -- meant to be a private msgs
between me and
> Brian. These things happen. Sorry that it wasn't off list as it
should have
> been - lack of attention on my part.
>
> 4. These copies are intended for PRIVATE use: no covers are being
printed,
> no money is changing hands, no-one is flogging them off at Balmain
Markets.
> HOME USE, OK?? That's permitted isn't it?
>
> 5. I'm sure that if Brian decides he REALLY likes any of these
albums
> sufficiently, then he'll do the right thing and buy the official
copies.
>
> 6. Hands up who has *no* illegally copied CD-R's on their shelves?
Who
> HASN'T used Napster? Who among you is without sin, let him/her cast
the
> first MP3.
>
> 7. Seeing we're so concerned about trade practices, I would point
out that
> Castle have issued the Kinks' Pye albums at least twice, most
recently as
> remastered versions, with bonus tracks and liner notes.
>
> Now as a consumer with very little disposable income (well very
little
> income at all, really) to me this (A) stinks and (B) REALLY begs
the
> question of why record companies don't do that in the first place.
>
> (Answer: to make us buy them twice).
>
> This shits me immensely. I bought all the LPs. Dutifully, I bought
all the
> CDs when *they* came out. Just like I did with Hendrix, Peter
Gabriel and
> XTC and all the rest.
>
> I pay my way, as a rule, but my Kinks CDs -- while precious to me --
  are now
> cod-ordinary, bargain-bin filler, expensive drinks coasters. Their
resale
> value is virtually nil, although they cost me more to buy in 1990
than the
> Castle reissues are worth now, adjusted for inflation.
>
> So forgive me if I don't feel any especial sense of guilt about
copying
> outdated, inferior versions of albums that -- if I want the latest
and
> "best" version -- I would now be obliged to buy for the THIRD time.
>
> And if EMI and the other companies
>
> (A) actually gave a toss about their back catalogue -- which they
patently
> don't -- and
>
> (B) had anyone with half a brain and some entrepreneurial sense
working for
> them, which is even less likely,
>
> then they'd have long ago hauled out the Spectrum and Tully and
Shud tapes
> (which I might add have probably long since vanished), fixed them
up, and
> offered them through a CUSTOM CD-R copying service for albums on
request,
> for which we could pay an appropriate fee to cover costs and
royalties
> (which they never bloody pay anyway - just ask Tim Gaze).
>
> So don't come the bleeding heart with me about the "poor old record
> companies". They are NOT being held back from releasing these
albums because
> of the looming spectre of domestic CD-R copying. They don't release
them
> because they DON'T CARE.
>
> They don't give a flying f*** about this music, as evidenced by the
> discgraceful treatment of people like Tim, the unforgiveable loss
of the
> Ariel master tapes that Mike and Bill have uncovered, etc etc.
>
> Guilt-trip me over the artists, sure, but if you think you're gonna
make me
> feel bad because I'm hurting a record company -- think again.
>
> And if anyone cares to work out what I'd owe Ray for copying the
CDs, and
> has his address, then I'd be glad to post him a cheque. Ought to
come to
> slightly less than the cost of the postage, I imagine.
>
> Penitentially yours,
>
> Dunks
>
______________________________________________________________________
___
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com.

5. I'm sure that if Brian decides he REALLY likes any of these albums
sufficiently, then he'll do the right thing and buy the official copies.

That's lame Dunks, he'll think "got those" now I can get some other
stuff and it's hardly going to be a revelation to him, that material is
pretty well known so you know if you want it or not. If this was the
case do him a sampler and suggest purchase if he liked what he (should
already have) heard.

6. Hands up who has *no* illegally copied CD-R's on their shelves? Who
HASN'T used Napster? Who among you is without sin, let him/her cast the
first MP3.

Believe it or not I don't. I do have burn-off's of demo's, unreleased
masters or whatever. Mind you I have several thousand 'promo' releases
on which no royalties are paid but that's not hypocritcal, it's part of
the release process.

7. Seeing we're so concerned about trade practices, I would point out
that
Castle have issued the Kinks' Pye albums at least twice, most recently
as
remastered versions, with bonus tracks and liner notes.

Not concerned about 'trade practices' but about the artist/writer
getting some return for work done - at no stage would I suggest sending
money to an record company but the artist or even AMCOS might be a
consideration.
I think what got me was the quantity of burn-off you were/are
contemplating.

If this continues (and it will) there is no use anybody releasing any
old masters, all the people that want 'em can get 'em.
The Inner City Sounds site is back up and the guy has about 100 tracks
on there I have some stake in (Missing Link related material) Is he
promoting interest or destroying any chance of putting back out legit? I
really don't know the answer.

maksimovic36@... wrote:

--- In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@h...> wrote:
> OK OK point taken. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. Mea Nancy Culpa.
>
>

Tony

"Wide Open" is (or was) re-released by Festival - I have a copy. Check with
your record store. Should still be available. Cost me $15 I think.

Dunks


>From: "Tony Jaggers" <ajaggs@...>
>Reply-To: rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com
>To: <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [rocknroll-scars] thou shalt not ...
>Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:50:36 +1000
>
>Hey Dunks....it would be well worth a few bob (oops gave my age away) just
>to get Rays
>address and or email...
>To that list of desired re-releases (Tully, Spectrum etc) add Kharvas Jute
>and I'd be buying
>the lot.
>Tony
>
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

---
Thanks for the corrections,Keith
I kinda figured I'd get something wrong in there as I'm not a fan of
Gerry and The Pacemakers and the Rising Suns/Sons is now fixed in my
mind.

TA!!










In rocknroll-scars@y..., Keith Glass <kglass@o...> wrote:
> Phew a lotta stuff covered here. Record Companies 'justify' their
actions
> all the time, are not CD burners doing much the same? CD copies are
faithful
> digital copies as against cassettes which are disposable and often
self
> destructing - it is a whole new ball game.
> If companies put out lavishly illustrated stereo re-mastered
versions they'd
> still be copied, perhaps more so because like the Bear Family stuff
they'd
> cost more. Bear Family sets supposedly rarely cover costs, I'm sure
these
> vintage artist don't see much return but they do get a testiment to
their
> art in the form of a fab package.
> Mahal/Cooder group is Rising Suns by the way, I had a schoolboy
band Rising
> Sons so it sorta sticks in your mind.
> While we are at it Gerry and The Pacemakers did (recorded) "Shot Of
Rhythm &
> Blues' not Beatles, Agree old Arthur Alexander is one of the greats
and yes
> I have both CD's and the recent book on his life, the author
Richard Younger
> and I have been corresponding past few months. Cheers Keith
>
























> maksimovic36@h... wrote:
>
> > --- In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@h...>
wrote:
> > > OK OK point taken. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. Mea Nancy Culpa.
> > >
> > >

---
Have to agree with you on all points,in regards to interviewing a
member of a band and getting their story,it's always annoyed me that
you only get one point of view when you interview only one band
member,the only reason being that they may have been the only one to
stay during the entire life of the band ie.whenever there is anything
to do with the Masters Apprentices,it is always Jim Keays that's
questioned and it's his perspective or interpretation of events that
is on the record.If you look at the newspaper interview with the
Master's original drummer Brian Vaughton,his interpretation of events
during his time in the band is at odds with Keays(I saw it on the
MILESAGO web site).How about interviewing Mick Bower who wrote all
the early Masters stuff,Hell they're his songs and about his leaving
the band,why not try to interview all living members that can be
found,Jeez,what a novel idea!!
As you said most people take whatever shit is served up to them and
we are supposed to be grateful for it,well like you I'd be glad to
hand my money over if I got something that I felt was worth the outlay
like the Bear Family stuff which can cost around $40/disc when buying
a box set but you get a well researched well put together product.






In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Action Man" <actionman67@p...> wrote:
> If an artist is going to be reissued, it should be done respectfully
> The reissue market is pretty busy at the moment but there are too
many
> 'disrespectful' tributes out there - examples-
>
> - Cheap audio transfers done on home t/t then declicked on some
cheap
> program
> - using incorrect line - up of band as main pic
> - liner notes by the most available member of the band without
consulting the
> other members - you usually get their story and not the real tale
> - reprinting liner notes that are 20 years old and claiming the
information
> is as  accurate as they could get - forgetting that someone has
done all the
> right research and that a simple phone call could have corrected it
> - crediting a well known song to incorrect composer
> - getting time lines fucked up
> - Cheap presentation - presenting a group in cheap 80s styled (and
it ain't
> classic!) 4 page booklets making the package unattractive to people
> unfamiliar with the music
>
> Oh - and all this has happened again in NZ in the last three months
> - andmost people dont care! Well I DO!!!!
>
> Current favourite reissues - Pretty Things LPs on Norton (the
BEST!),
> Status Quo (all 60s recordings), NZ Avengers CD
>  - looking forward to the International Nuggets  Australia and NZ
are
> represented quite well!!
>
> Sad news - I just heard that Brian Pendleton of the Pretty Things
died
> last month.
>
> JOHN

Just got a 45 of Buried And Dead which I played all weekend (holiday weekend
here in NZ) - how did this guy write - the first two Masters singles are
fucking mindblowing!!!!!!
Other NZ news - doco on TV last nite about Neill Finn touring NZ earlier
this year - picking up local musicians and rehearsing with them on day of
show only - 1 hour and entertaining.
Any one here remember the Dudes - Dave Dobbyn's first group - they have a
best of CD coming out - with great sound, tasteful liner notes and great
pics and will be playing a one off reunion show at the end of July.
And I hear Russell Crowe is touring his Grunt band later in the year too

Couple of questions - What is best Coloured Balls LP? Has it been reissued?
What happened to Peter Tilbrook???
Vinyl reissue of X's X -Aspirations out soon!

JOHN BAKER

-----Original Message-----
From: maksimovic36@... <maksimovic36@...>
To: rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com <rocknroll-scars@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, 5 June 2001 14:49
Subject: [rocknroll-scars] Re: reissues


>---
>Have to agree with you on all points,in regards to interviewing a
>member of a band and getting their story,it's always annoyed me that
>you only get one point of view when you interview only one band
>member,the only reason being that they may have been the only one to
>stay during the entire life of the band ie.whenever there is anything
>to do with the Masters Apprentices,it is always Jim Keays that's
>questioned and it's his perspective or interpretation of events that
>is on the record.If you look at the newspaper interview with the
>Master's original drummer Brian Vaughton,his interpretation of events
>during his time in the band is at odds with Keays(I saw it on the
>MILESAGO web site).How about interviewing Mick Bower who wrote all
>the early Masters stuff,Hell they're his songs and about his leaving
>the band,why not try to interview all living members that can be
>found,Jeez,what a novel idea!!
>As you said most people take whatever shit is served up to them and
>we are supposed to be grateful for it,well like you I'd be glad to
>hand my money over if I got something that I felt was worth the outlay
>like the Bear Family stuff which can cost around $40/disc when buying
>a box set but you get a well researched well put together product.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Action Man" <actionman67@p...> wrote:
>> If an artist is going to be reissued, it should be done respectfully
>> The reissue market is pretty busy at the moment but there are too
>many
>> 'disrespectful' tributes out there - examples-
>>
>> - Cheap audio transfers done on home t/t then declicked on some
>cheap
>> program
>> - using incorrect line - up of band as main pic
>> - liner notes by the most available member of the band without
>consulting the
>> other members - you usually get their story and not the real tale
>> - reprinting liner notes that are 20 years old and claiming the
>information
>> is as  accurate as they could get - forgetting that someone has
>done all the
>> right research and that a simple phone call could have corrected it
>> - crediting a well known song to incorrect composer
>> - getting time lines fucked up
>> - Cheap presentation - presenting a group in cheap 80s styled (and
>it ain't
>> classic!) 4 page booklets making the package unattractive to people
>> unfamiliar with the music
>>
>> Oh - and all this has happened again in NZ in the last three months
>> - andmost people dont care! Well I DO!!!!
>>
>> Current favourite reissues - Pretty Things LPs on Norton (the
>BEST!),
>> Status Quo (all 60s recordings), NZ Avengers CD
>>  - looking forward to the International Nuggets  Australia and NZ
>are
>> represented quite well!!
>>
>> Sad news - I just heard that Brian Pendleton of the Pretty Things
>died
>> last month.
>>
>> JOHN
>
>
>MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
>
>http://milesago.gq.nu
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Action Man" <actionman67@p...> wrote:
> Just got a 45 of Buried And Dead which I played all weekend
(holiday weekend
> here in NZ) - how did this guy write - the first two Masters
singles are
> fucking mindblowing!!!!!!
>
I think I've mentioned this before but Bower still lives in Adelaide
and gets no money for reissues of Masters material. He's never
consulted about them and usually finds out about them when he sees
them in a shop. He doesn't even get a complimentary copy.

How accurate this is I don't know, but the story is that Bower still
suffers the residual effects of his breakdown and this is why he
refuses to be interviewed on any aspect of his musical career.

> Any one here remember the Dudes - Dave Dobbyn's first group - they
have a
> best of CD coming out - with great sound, tasteful liner notes and
great
> pics and will be playing a one off reunion show at the end of July.
>
Looking at http://www.innercitysound.com.au/ makes me wish (again)
that an official reissue of Toy Love's back catalogue would happen.
Presumably they are better remembered in NZ than here. I believe
their stuff is still tangled up with the failed DeLuxe label (who
also released the early INXS stuff, plus The Numbers, and The
Dugites).

As far as Dobbyn is concerned, my fave song of his is his first solo
single - pre DD Smash - '(Turn On The) Lipstick Power'. Never
released in any form is Australia as far as I know.

Steve

Can't stand 'em meself but "Shot of R&B" is just about the best thing they
ever recorded 'cos AA's song is so great! "Anna (Go To Him)" by The Beatles
is good too, as is "You'd Better Go Now" by Stones but none can hold a
candle to the originals. k

maksimovic36@... wrote:

> ---
> Thanks for the corrections,Keith
> I kinda figured I'd get something wrong in there as I'm not a fan of
> Gerry and The Pacemakers and the Rising Suns/Sons is now fixed in my
> mind.
>
> TA!!
>
> In rocknroll-scars@y..., Keith Glass <kglass@o...> wrote:
> > Phew a lotta stuff covered here. Record Companies 'justify' their
> actions
> > all the time, are not CD burners doing much the same? CD copies are
> faithful
> > digital copies as against cassettes which are disposable and often
> self
> > destructing - it is a whole new ball game.
> > If companies put out lavishly illustrated stereo re-mastered
> versions they'd
> > still be copied, perhaps more so because like the Bear Family stuff
> they'd
> > cost more. Bear Family sets supposedly rarely cover costs, I'm sure
> these
> > vintage artist don't see much return but they do get a testiment to
> their
> > art in the form of a fab package.
> > Mahal/Cooder group is Rising Suns by the way, I had a schoolboy
> band Rising
> > Sons so it sorta sticks in your mind.
> > While we are at it Gerry and The Pacemakers did (recorded) "Shot Of
> Rhythm &
> > Blues' not Beatles, Agree old Arthur Alexander is one of the greats
> and yes
> > I have both CD's and the recent book on his life, the author
> Richard Younger
> > and I have been corresponding past few months. Cheers Keith
> >
>
> > maksimovic36@h... wrote:
> >
> > > --- In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@h...>
> wrote:
> > > > OK OK point taken. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. Mea Nancy Culpa.
> > > >
> > > >
>
> MILESAGO: Australasian music and popular culture 1964-1975
>
> http://milesago.gq.nu
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

What's the Bear Family?


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

--- In rocknroll-scars@y..., "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@h...> wrote:
> What's the Bear Family?
>
http://www.bear-family.de/

Steve