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An Alternate Theory of Change (lengthy, but perhaps offensive enough   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #219361 of 240667 |
Vis-a-vis Neil's alleged decline...

I've been intrigued by this week's threads discussing Neil's recent decline. I
think specifically the threads relating "New Songs" and "Last Killer Song"
caught my interest, as they tend to agree on a number of points that illustrate
Neil's decline over the past decade and a half or so, for some running back to
RNS. The theory, stated or implied, is that Neil's abilities are declining with
age, or other factors, or both, and that a resurgence of sorts is hoped for.

My argument will be this: that Neil hasn't changed nearly as much as many have
supposed him to. One thing that has changed in many cases is the lens through
which he is viewed. I believe that as the listener ages, they are less and less
open to new forms or directions of art. In this case that means you are less
likely to find new music that you like, especially if it moves in new
directions, as you age. What that means, specific to Neil, is that while I agree
that the nature of his work output is changing, I think few would dispute that
that has been the only constant of his career.

The problem, then, is in the quality of the work, or rather in the subjective
view of that quality. To boil that down, what I'm saying is that, in my opinion,
Neil isn't changing or declining nearly as rapidly as some fans' appreciation of
his work, whether because of interest or ability.  This itself caused by aging
of the subject (the fan), at least as often as, if not far more than, the object
(Neil), in my respectful opinion.

I'll lay my reasoning on you, with examples, but first my rebuttals, in no
particular order.

"Neil has been knocking off songs too quickly" idea. I think that one is pretty
moot, since we know that Neil has always written music in rapid bursts (Cowgirl
DBTR the same day, etc). I think that this has been a hallmark of his career,
and is no new development. And I think many artists have alternating periods of
creativity and inactivity.

"What was the last killer song Neil wrote?" idea. Put "the Painter" or "Only a
Dream" on "Harvest" and you have two more hits on that album, in my opinion.
"Bandit" is my favorite acoustic song of his, and I don't just say that for
intricate personal reasons; I think it is The Best. Capital letters. The most
radio friendly? No, but clearly he has no interest in that. I think "No Hidden
Path" and "Going Home" walk in exactly the same territory that "Big Time" and
"Change Your Mind" did. I might actually play "After the Garden" or "Falling
From Above" more often on the electric than some of the "hits." I think the
conversation about a "killer" song lurks dangerously close to the conversation
about what is catchy or a what is a hit, and I don't those things interest
Neil-- which is not to say he doesn't have the ability to write them, because he
does.

The problems with albums as a whole- that they are rushed, uneven, feature
shoddy production or song-selection, and seem to be the product of an obsessive
focus, ie Greendale or "Praire Wind." But. Neil knocked off most of "Tonights
the Night" on a drunken binge with the surviving members of Crazy Horse. But the
album also features a Stray Gators cut and a live track from 3 years earlier.
Did that one become "classic" because he mulled it for ages, or because he
tinkered? Joel Bernstein said that the best form of TTN was the one from before
he doctored it. But take it as you will, Neil himself described that album, an
obsessive look at the consequences of the drug culture, by saying, "I'm sorry.
You don't know these people. This means nothing to you" in the liner notes. I
think its his best one.

Neil likes to record on the fly. He used to like to have expensive professional
session musicians switch instruments and play fresh on his albums. Neil is the
guy who ended "Harvest" with "Words" and "Comes a Time" with "Motorcycle Mama."
That is about as willy-nilly as they come. If he has an even, polished record,
I'm not sure I particularly want to hear it. Any of us could revisit "classic"
albums of Neil's and find throwaway tracks. The question is not one of ability,
but of inclination.

Has Neil been unable to make a "classic" album without David Briggs? "Harvest"
and "Freedom," vs "Reactor"and "Life" tells me that this is just not the case. I
don't buy that. There is only one person who is credited on every single
excellent (and every single shabby) Neil Young album as a producer and that
person is Neil Young.

I don't think Neil's methods have changed as much as they are supposed to have
done. I think he could make a "considered" recording, sit on it for a period of
time, tour the songs first (as he is now), and release it after multiple
sessions over a period of months, and it would still fail to please many of the
people here on the list. And for that matter I don't think he'd spend
appreciably much more of his own time in the project. He'd just have it lying
around somewhere while he changed his mind this way and that. He is like Dylan--
he does recordings in the moment. It has always been that way, for the most
part.

I also think that he is writing songs that are just as interesting and pointed
as songs have ever been; it is just that the subject matter is not thematically
and musically as inquisitive as it once was. He is not as much into finding out
about the way the world works as he once was. But hey, he's past 60, I'll give
him that. He talks now about how he sees and has seen the world. It is a process
that has taken place over time, a shift in subect matter and tone, but again, I
don't think it is a loss of quality, just a change of subject.

So what I'm saying, then, is that I think that Neil is not changing
qualitatively, but rather in terms of focus. What he wants is changing. But the
more what Neil wants to change and grow as an artist, the more expectations of
him remain the same. That is how I break down the "archives vs new album" divide
amongst his fans. Some of us want to hear different takes on old material/old
ways of thinking more, being more interested in eras past, and some of us are
more interested to know what comes now and what comes next. If you compare the
shows from a year ago to the ones now, you see that Neil himself is clearly
split with the rest of us. But he leans towards forging ahead.

I also think there is a very large and widespread tendency to attribute all
changes in perception of quality to Neil, which I do not believe is a method of
fandom that will produce felicity or satisfaction. Another car driving away from
yours at sixty produces the same visual effect, relatively speaking, as yours
driving away from it at sixty, or each of you leaving the other at thirty a
piece. Thats Einstein, right?

Regardless, the main thing to take away, if any find my theory persuasive, is
that there is not likely to be any sudden "return to form" or "killer song"
produced out of the blue, based on these criteria, because they are not Neil's
criteria.  I could sooner imagine Neil playing any song from Greendale in my
house for me tonight than I could imagine him trying to recreate his way of
doing things from twenty or thirty years ago in 2009.  The fact that he made
"Harvest Moon" at all still confuses the hell out of me, and I tend to chalk it
up to mid-life crisis. I think if you want a roadmap for the future with this
guy, you draw some kind of map based on the gradual changes he's been making,
beginning arbitrarily with AYP? if you like, and then you throw that map out the
window, because its Neil -- who knows what the hell the guy has up his sleeve?

Aaron, That Old Country Insufferable Knowitall





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:42 am

neilrocks77
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Message #219361 of 240667 |
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Vis-a-vis Neil's alleged decline... I've been intrigued by this week's threads discussing Neil's recent decline. I think specifically the threads relating "New...
Waldo Q
neilrocks77
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Dec 18, 2008
5:42 am

I thought Neil was in decline when I heard Field of Opportunity about 25 years ago....
joebelock
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Dec 18, 2008
6:50 am

Post of the decade, Aaron! /Pontus...
Pontus
pontemil
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Dec 18, 2008
7:20 am

Did you mean a post that took a decade to read or write??? ;> LOL, BTTG, Dennis...
Dennis Widdows
dmwctw
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Dec 18, 2008
6:16 pm

By the by, It was an excellent post... Just in case you missed the wink!!! BTTG, Dennis...
Dennis Widdows
dmwctw
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Dec 18, 2008
6:21 pm

i had a response to jules comment about broken arrow and accidentally sent it to him instead of the list. here is a repost of my comment and his response to...
whizzer1271
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Dec 18, 2008
6:52 pm

... Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't change much. Actually all I'd do is mix the vocal higher. The power of the band really comes alive on BA, so I wouldn't...
The Family Jules
julesalexgray
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Dec 19, 2008
9:26 am

... I play 75% of it more than I play three-quarters of the first half of Neil's catalog, 50% of it more than I play half of the last third of his catalog and...
barreloflaughs07853
barreloflaug...
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Dec 19, 2008
11:34 am

... I admire a man who plays the percentages. ... Jules...
The Family Jules
julesalexgray
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Dec 19, 2008
11:36 am

... I think there's some truth in your theory. ... I'll go with that, too. ... And I most certainly agree with that. That was a pretty incredible post, Aaron....
The Family Jules
julesalexgray
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Dec 18, 2008
9:24 am

Amen to the whole post. The thing about any song is does it resonate, does it have legs. I'm finding I can't get "Just Singing A Song.." out of my head after ...
neilrlburnside
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Dec 18, 2008
2:14 pm

... persuasive, is that there is not likely to be any sudden "return to form" or "killer song" produced out of the blue, based on these criteria, because they...
Ian Rosen
shmucking
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Dec 18, 2008
3:31 pm

... Ahh, come on, Ian. Broken Arrow may have some classic moments on it, but no way is it a classic album! It's way too flawed for such a honour. Jules...
The Family Jules
julesalexgray
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Dec 18, 2008
3:40 pm

... Well, maybe "classic" was the wrong term to use. The main flaw in it is the last song, Baby What You Want Me To Do. It seems like most Neil albums have a...
Ian Rosen
shmucking
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Dec 18, 2008
4:29 pm

... it, but no way is it a classic album! It's way too flawed for such a ... Hey Jules, What's a classic album? TTN?...was that flawed? Totally....but in a ...
Nick Birch
dialacrocdundee
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Dec 18, 2008
5:52 pm

... I guess it's one where the pros outweigh the cons, the wheat outweighs the chaff and the good outweighs the bad and the ugly. The last one to fit this bill...
The Family Jules
julesalexgray
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Dec 19, 2008
9:22 am

... That's a surprisingly lenient definition from Jules Briggs....many of Neil's albums would now seem to fit. Even lesser albums like PW, Trans, Mirrorball,...
Nick Birch
dialacrocdundee
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Dec 19, 2008
3:16 pm

With you there Jules, Neil himself said it was a dud and they all cant be classics. Neil phoned that one in. [Non-text portions of this message have been...
tom
thomas_osburn_298@...
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Dec 18, 2008
4:21 pm

Neil's body of work since 89 to today is as good as anyone has ever even attempted to do, RG, SWA, Freedom, PW, HM are better then anything recorded in that...
tom
thomas_osburn_298@...
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Dec 18, 2008
4:28 pm

... even attempted to do, RG, SWA, Freedom, PW, HM are better then anything recorded in that time period. Well, it's a matter of personal taste. But I agree...
Pontus
pontemil
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Dec 19, 2008
12:01 am

... persuasive, is that there is not likely to be any sudden "return to form" or "killer song" produced out of the blue, based on these criteria, because they...
Nick Birch
dialacrocdundee
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Dec 18, 2008
6:03 pm

Wow, I saw all the responses and was expecting foaming mouths and hostility, but I guess it seemed more hostile at 3 AM than it does now the next day. Thanks...
Waldo Q
neilrocks77
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Dec 19, 2008
5:54 am

Another very good and interesting post, Aaron. I learnt a great deal from introducing my spouse to Steely Dan a year and a half ago. I brought out all their...
Pontus
pontemil
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Dec 19, 2008
8:17 am

I had "Everything Must Go" coming in through my headphones when I had a layover in Paris, around the time that album came out. There was a major collapse of...
Waldo Q
neilrocks77
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Dec 21, 2008
10:40 pm

... a layover in Paris, around the time that album came out. There was a major collapse of the building that killed a few people not long after that, and for...
Ian Rosen
shmucking
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Dec 22, 2008
2:26 am

Dylan's "Love and Theft" album actually came out on that exact date, it'll always remind me of the aftermath....
bjsleeman
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Dec 22, 2008
2:45 am

... Yes, I bought that on the day & weirdly "Souljacker", by The Eels was released on the same day,which was very unfortunate attrocious timing all round. ...
john denley
eldarado2001
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Dec 22, 2008
9:02 am

... recent albums sucking, and between that and the threads discussing Neil's decline I felt like I wanted to put in an alternate opinion, simply because two...
Nick Birch
dialacrocdundee
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Dec 19, 2008
8:23 am

... and thematically. I know what you mean. My second year in college, Landing On Water really spoke to me as well. I thought the entire album was very ...
Ian Rosen
shmucking
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Dec 19, 2008
3:54 pm

I was in college an on my own when Landing On Water came out and it spoke to me as well. Isn't that the really important thing in this whole matter...if an...
Meleya Ballou
givingofflight
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Dec 20, 2008
2:19 am
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