--- In steinberger_world@y..., "thomasfuchsus" <tfuchs@b...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I want to exchange the lame EMG Selects for the real, active EMG
deal-
> 81 in Bridge and 89R in Neck position.
> Am I going to run into space problems, electric-wise, with all the
> batteries and stuff? Anyone done that before?
> Thanks a lot
>
> Thomas

--------------
I just had a GT-7 in my shop for a pickup swap. The customer was
unhappy with the Selects (No suprise) and wanted something better.
On my advise we went with a Duncan JB in the bridge, and Alnico
Pro II in the middle, and "59" in the neck. The switch is wired
for coil splits in "2" and "4". The end result to quote the customer
is "It's a whole new guitar!". BTW to install a battery in that
control cavity would require some major routing. Just thought I'd
pass this along FWIW.
Regards,
Dr Wah

--- In steinberger_world@y..., "caseyveal" <caseyveal@y...> wrote:
> I have been considering the MXR M-80, what is your opinion of it?
> How is the distortion channel?  Does it sound OK, or is it mud like
> most bass distortion deals?
>
> Thanks!!!
>
> >  I own a MusicYo Spirit by Steinberger XT-25.  I use three
> different
> > pedals (not all at once) to increase output and/or EQ.  Dunlop's
> MXR
> > M-80 Bass D.I.+, Dunlop's MXR M-133 Micro Amp, and Boss' GEB-7
Bass
> > Equalizer.  The MXR M-80 Bass D.I.+ is more affordable than the
> Sans
> > Amp and the Jan. 2002 issue of Bass Player magazine gave it a
very
> > favorable review. It has two channels, a 3-band EQ and two 1/4"
> > output jacks, one wet, one dry. The MXR M-133 Micro Amp is a
pedal
> > with a single gain knob.  The Boss GEB-7 Bass Equalizer is a 7-
band
> > EQ with level control.  All work well and do the job nicely.

     I don't use the distortion channel on my MXR M-80 Bass D.I.+ (I
personally NEVER use distortion) however, I've tried a setting with
the distortion channel activated whereby I set the "distortion" knob
fully off while only using the "volume" and/or "gain" knobs.  This
gives me a "tube-like" warmth that seems quite useable even to me, a
non-distortion user.  The other knob on this channel is "trigger"
which works in conjunction with the "gate" switch.  The reason why I
purchased the M-80 was so that I could use the dual output 1/4" jacks
to feed two amps while being able to eliminate my Boss GEB-7 Bass
Equalizer from my pedal chain.  Sorry, I'm not much of an authority
on bass distortion but if I recall, it doesn't sound too much
different than the Boss ODB-3 Bass Overdrive.

--- In steinberger_world@y..., "andyyak" <andy@s...> wrote:
>
> * * *
>
> [O]nly 12 [TransTrems] have been sold. . . .
>
> I know price is a factor for some of you on this stuff, but I don't
> know if that'd make a huge difference.
>
> * * *
>
> Andy Y.

Hi, Andy --

Speaking for myself, a friend who is one of Seattle's top guitar
teachers, and a friend who is one of Seattle's top guitar
techs/luthiers, MusicYo's prices for high-end Steinberger bridges
make a HUGE difference.  They are clearly being priced at the very
top of the demand curve -- hence the low volume.

Just our 2¢ worth!

All the best,

PC Martin
Seattle

I hadn't used my Steinberger Spirit GT-Pro in awhile, probably a month or 2.
When I tried tuning it, the individual strings tuned ok with the tremolo locked.
But when I unlocked the tremolo, I found the master tuning knob to be VERY
difficult to turn.  Is there any recommended lubrication procedure?  Any other
suggestions?

Thanks!

=======================================================
Dave Morgenlender
e-mail: dmorgen@...
=======================================================

> > [O]nly 12 [TransTrems] have been sold. . . .
> >
> > I know price is a factor for some of you on this stuff, but I
> > don't know if that'd make a huge difference.
> >
> > Andy Y.
>
> Hi, Andy --
>
> Speaking for myself, a friend who is one of Seattle's top guitar
> teachers, and a friend who is one of Seattle's top guitar
> techs/luthiers, MusicYo's prices for high-end Steinberger bridges
> make a HUGE difference.  They are clearly being priced at the very
> top of the demand curve -- hence the low volume.
>
> Just our 2¢ worth!
>
> All the best,
>
> PC Martin
> Seattle

Martin,

I agree the price is on the high side of the range.   But in all
honesty I don't think lowering the price is going to provide a huge
change in volume.  If they cut the cost in half they'd probably only
sell 2-3 times as much - still small potatoes when they're selling
hundreds of other items a month.  And cosidering what the re-order
prices are from Zen-On they'd probably rather just sit on the stuff.
That doesn't technically cost them anything since all the parts were
paid for by Gibson already and they can use them on new instruments
down the road.

I painfully realize that Steinberger as we knew it has long been dead
and won't be coming back.  The level of innovation and support we got
from a smaller "boutique" builder will not be there from a large
corporation that represents many brands, especially one that is
focused more on economy and marketing and moving units.  Even early
in the Gibson days there were still "Steinberger employees" who were
100% dedicated and committed to the product.  Now it's just another
thing their people do.

I truly think MusicYo would rather blow out 50 cheap Kramers or
Spirits to the "headaches" a single high-end graphite Steinberger
creates.  The higher the price the higher the expectation and level
of quality & support that's demanded.  And I don't think they are yet
prepared nor enthusiastic about that kind of commitment.  I'd love to
be wrong about this, but I've yet to see that I'm wrong on this.

Andy Y.

> I agree the price is on the high side of the range.   But in all
> honesty I don't think lowering the price is going to provide a huge
> change in volume.  If they cut the cost in half they'd probably only
> sell 2-3 times as much - still small potatoes when they're selling
> hundreds of other items a month.

Not only is it small potatoes, but just plain silly... selling twice the
goods at half the price is kind of a wash, eh?! So yep, sitting on what
they've got is undoubtedly the right business decision. I wish it wasn't
because if they were half the price, I'd be buying a TransTrem for
parts, and a TracTuner for a project. Hell, I'd even buy an NOS body
that they didn't consider up to par for that project. But alas...

RG

Although I vigorously agree with Andy's last post...I think his
analysis of the MY sales emphasis is a dichotomy. MY can't have it's
cake & eat it too...you can't charge high-end boutique guitar prices
on guitars if you aren't willing to be meticulous with the
luthiery...the market is simply too competitive for that.You can find
many quality guitars in the $1300-1800 range with excellent, detailed
luthiery & Andy is correct to characterize the Steinie faithfull
as "small in numbers but loud in voice"...I would hope Ned & MY have
plans for new PROGRESSIVE INNOVATIONS...not new "economic sales
schemes" which will be like a sequel to a great movie that sucks &
just attracts attention because of the name. In my mind that type of
an ending to Steinbergers would be worse than the 1st one. I would
suggest to all members who want a "new" or NOS instrument to buy
ASAP, or be patient & keep looking @ autions, stores, etc. ...It's
alot easier to put NOS parts together than it is to innovate new
luthiery that works..& sales & the quality of the really new
instruments will have to pass the test of time. It would also sadden
me greatly to see MY reduce all the information given to them for
almost $00.00 by Andy & the many experienced Steinies on this site,
to insignificant historical technical specs...& not use it as they
should or claim, to improve the design of Steinbergers...let's put
some meaning behind "State of the instrument" If MY is unwilling to
do this, then they should sell Kramer beginner's guitars in boxes of
three, step aside, & let luthiers/innovators like Phil Langley (the
creator of the new detuning headpiece)have a shot @ it. ... The best
to all of you, especially Andy, Mick, & Phil, AlienF.

> Sorry, I'm not much of an authority
> on bass distortion but if I recall, it doesn't sound too much
> different than the Boss ODB-3 Bass Overdrive.

I appreciate the feedback.  I can deal with that comparison.  Take
care ;).

Andy (and group),

I am not a parts whorder looking to rip people off after the parts
are no longer available, but is the extinction of available TT parts
from MY a true possibility?

If it is, I will probably bite the bullet and buy up a bunch of parts
from MY just because I (and a lot of other people) don't want to see
one man have control of the parts again.

Honestly, without available replacement TT parts, used Steinies
aren't a real option.  Most of you Newburgh era Type II TT are in
need of new jaws due to age.  Absence of available parts will make
them pretty much undesireable.

It is another thing that keeps me awake at night.  Oh well, I worry
too much.  Thanks for listening to me babble.

What do they do with the blemished bodies they can't use for new
instruments? I am sure someone will buy them (umm, me?).

Dave Eichenberger- guitars.loops.devices
http://www.hazardfactor.com

> Although I vigorously agree with Andy's last post...I think his
> analysis of the MY sales emphasis is a dichotomy. MY can't have
> it's cake & eat it too...you can't charge high-end boutique guitar
> prices on guitars if you aren't willing to be meticulous with the
> luthiery...the market is simply too competitive for that.  You can
> find many quality guitars in the $1300-1800 range with excellent,
> detailed luthiery & Andy is correct to characterize the Steinie
> faithfull as "small in numbers but loud in voice". . .


Let me clarify. . .I have no doubt the quality of the NOS or even the
new graphite neck instruments will be top notch.  I think they'll do
a great job on the front end.  Where I have doubts are everything
after the initial sale.  It's great that you spent $1700 and got a
fantastic guitar.  But what if no one on the other side of the phone
or email is very technical or knowledgeable?  Or if parts that wear
out from normal use cost an arm and a leg?  Or you get nickel and
dimed for every screw and washer?  Then buying that instrument
becomes more hassle than it's worth.

Ned once asked me why I thought very few 'bergers were seen on stage
these days.  I countered that if you were relying on an instrument
night in and night out and couldn't talk to a factory technician to
solve problems, or worse yet couldn't even get some replacement parts
would you want to bring it on the road or rely on it often?  Even non-
touring buyers expect some "value added" when spending that kind of
money on a top notch instrument.  Being left to fend for themselves
is not one of them.

With Klein or Suhr or Spector or Sadowsky or any number of other high
end builders you can get help easily - often times by the namesake
himself.  Where are you with a Steinberger?

I don't doubt that MusicYo is trying. . .for now.  But something
keeps me coming back to the fact that they were founded as a low
cost / moderate quality / high volume retailer.  Ned started as a
high cost / high quality / low volume inventor & builder.  Those are
opposite ends of the spectrum.  Even Gibson somewhat understood what
it meant with their premium lines and their Custom Shop.  They just
sucked at composite construction -- way too foreign to them.  And
obviously in the beginning Steinberger was devoted to themselves,
which meant something as the HAD to make it work.  With MusicYo there
are so many more brands that can get/keep their attention so it'd be
easy to jettison dead weight.  Especially if sales are sluggish and
not worth the ROI.

Because of that I would second the "buy it now" concept for parts and
guitars.  Not that's it's better now, but because they're available.
I can safely say we'll never see new 12 string TracTuners again nor
items like the bass TransTrem.  I don't think even Ed Roman will give
those a try when the patents expire.

The potential re-emergence of the L's is suspect for me too,
considering that nearly every single step of the fabrication (save
final assembly) would need to farmed out.  Hard to make money when
you're not manufacturing a single part and it's all custom.  And for
a retail company that's acutely focused on the margins it would make
them even more apprehensive.

Part of me is still hopeful.  Up to now I've been cautiously
optimistic, but I guess I've hit a bit of a wall with my enthusiasm
especially after hearing some of this recent news.  I still love
playing my basses, but am unsure what will become of the brand and
the innovation it created and inspired.  Like I said, I'd love to be
wrong but that's the vision I'm seeing.

Andy Y.

----- Original Message -----

From: Randy Graves

To: steinberger_world@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 1:40 PM

Subject: Re: Steinberger World thread Re: MusicYo update for June

> I agree the price is on the high side of the range.   But in all
> honesty I don't think lowering the price is going to provide a huge
> change in volume.  If they cut the cost in half they'd probably only
> sell 2-3 times as much - still small potatoes when they're selling
> hundreds of other items a month.

Not only is it small potatoes, but just plain silly... selling twice the
goods at half the price is kind of a wash, eh?! So yep, sitting on what
they've got is undoubtedly the right business decision. I wish it wasn't
because if they were half the price, I'd be buying a TransTrem for
parts, and a TracTuner for a project. Hell, I'd even buy an NOS body
that they didn't consider up to par for that project. But alas...

RG



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----- Original Message -----

From: caseyveal

To: steinberger_world@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:17 PM

Subject: Steinberger World thread Re: MusicYo update for June

Andy (and group),

I am not a parts whorder looking to rip people off after the parts
are no longer available, but is the extinction of available TT parts
from MY a true possibility?

If it is, I will probably bite the bullet and buy up a bunch of parts
from MY just because I (and a lot of other people) don't want to see
one man have control of the parts again.

Honestly, without available replacement TT parts, used Steinies
aren't a real option.  Most of you Newburgh era Type II TT are in
need of new jaws due to age.  Absence of available parts will make
them pretty much undesireable.

It is another thing that keeps me awake at night.  Oh well, I worry
too much.  Thanks for listening to me babble.



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steinberger_world-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--- In steinberger_world@y..., "andyyak" <andy@s...> wrote:
> > Although I vigorously agree with Andy's last post...I think his
> > analysis of the MY sales emphasis is a dichotomy. MY can't have
> > it's cake & eat it too...you can't charge high-end boutique
guitar
> > prices on guitars if you aren't willing to be meticulous with the
> > luthiery...the market is simply too competitive for that.  You can
> > find many quality guitars in the $1300-1800 range with excellent,
> > detailed luthiery & Andy is correct to characterize the Steinie
> > faithfull as "small in numbers but loud in voice". . .
>
>
> Let me clarify. . .I have no doubt the quality of the NOS or even
the
> new graphite neck instruments will be top notch.  I think they'll
do
> a great job on the front end.  Where I have doubts are everything
> after the initial sale.  It's great that you spent $1700 and got a
> fantastic guitar.  But what if no one on the other side of the
phone
> or email is very technical or knowledgeable?  Or if parts that wear
> out from normal use cost an arm and a leg?  Or you get nickel and
> dimed for every screw and washer?  Then buying that instrument
> becomes more hassle than it's worth.
>
> Ned once asked me why I thought very few 'bergers were seen on
stage
> these days.  I countered that if you were relying on an instrument
> night in and night out and couldn't talk to a factory technician to
> solve problems, or worse yet couldn't even get some replacement
parts
> would you want to bring it on the road or rely on it often?  Even
non-
> touring buyers expect some "value added" when spending that kind of
> money on a top notch instrument.  Being left to fend for themselves
> is not one of them.
>
> With Klein or Suhr or Spector or Sadowsky or any number of other
high
> end builders you can get help easily - often times by the namesake
> himself.  Where are you with a Steinberger?
>
> I don't doubt that MusicYo is trying. . .for now.  But something
> keeps me coming back to the fact that they were founded as a low
> cost / moderate quality / high volume retailer.  Ned started as a
> high cost / high quality / low volume inventor & builder.  Those
are
> opposite ends of the spectrum.  Even Gibson somewhat understood
what
> it meant with their premium lines and their Custom Shop.  They just
> sucked at composite construction -- way too foreign to them.  And
> obviously in the beginning Steinberger was devoted to themselves,
> which meant something as the HAD to make it work.  With MusicYo
there
> are so many more brands that can get/keep their attention so it'd
be
> easy to jettison dead weight.  Especially if sales are sluggish and
> not worth the ROI.
>
> Because of that I would second the "buy it now" concept for parts
and
> guitars.  Not that's it's better now, but because they're
available.
> I can safely say we'll never see new 12 string TracTuners again nor
> items like the bass TransTrem.  I don't think even Ed Roman will
give
> those a try when the patents expire.
>
> The potential re-emergence of the L's is suspect for me too,
> considering that nearly every single step of the fabrication (save
> final assembly) would need to farmed out.  Hard to make money when
> you're not manufacturing a single part and it's all custom.  And
for
> a retail company that's acutely focused on the margins it would
make
> them even more apprehensive.
>
> Part of me is still hopeful.  Up to now I've been cautiously
> optimistic, but I guess I've hit a bit of a wall with my enthusiasm
> especially after hearing some of this recent news.  I still love
> playing my basses, but am unsure what will become of the brand and
> the innovation it created and inspired.  Like I said, I'd love to
be
> wrong but that's the vision I'm seeing.
>
> Andy Y.

I agree...& I would add, better stated my comments. Troy also has a
very pertinent point...about parts & pricing. At a risk of pissing
someone off (like I did JLS)...to illustrate Troy's part price point,
I bought my GM5TA from Washington Music CTR in the late 80's for
$1200...should I pay over half that price to replace the bridge?...Is
it reasonable that the pickups, controls, body, & neck are worth only
$500?(NO)...Should a new guitar cost $300 more than the original did
14 yrs ago?(20% inflation/14 yrs!...that's less than 2%/yr!) That's
why I said I feel the NOS Steinies are a good economic deal...but not
the parts...& Andy makes the consumate point...nothing that's
mechanical lasts for ever...metal materials wear &  "fatigue" it's a
biomechanical fact...you have to have parts to perpetuate the design.
So I too, bought some key "wear" small parts for repairs for my
transtrems. Selling the NOS parts from the trailer for less than ER's
inflated "I'll screw you" price, isn't a service, it's a business
opportunity.If MY used all the NOS parts for new guitars/basses, they
would have spent more $$ for assembly to "test the waters". The true
test for MY's commitment to graphites is to work with Ned & other
innovators to produce the 2002 version of the "state of the
instrument" They'll have to put some R & D  $$ where their
advertisments are...we'll have to see. Font to you later my friends.
AlienF

Was just going over my notes for the write-up I'm doing on
Steinberger Blend construction for the website.  Came across a few
intersting tidbits about Eddie Van Halen's GL's.  These were shared
by Jeff Babicz, former Newburgh plant manager:

- Most of the time when the factory built instruments for "stars" it
was anonymous.  Many of them were production instruments to begin
with, or who they were being custom built for wasn't common knowledge
(at least to the people actually working on them).  EVH's famous 5150
GL was different.

When he ordered it they all knew.  They had first sent the cover out
to be specially painted.  So when it came back and was assembled
EVERYONE knew who's it was.  I guess several staffers even had pics
taken with it.

- A few years later Ned told the guys to be on the lookout for
Eddie's guitars coming back to the factory for repair.  This was odd,
as the staff only remembered building the one.  Seems Eddie had
bought two more GL's right off the shelf.  These had different pickup
configurations from the '2' on his 5150 and were still stock
(including the black faceplate).

- Eddie's only complaint about the guitars had to do with string
bends.  If he did this anywhere lower than about the 4th fret he
noticed some play behind the headpiece, as the string slid around on
the zero fret.  And sometimes the string wouldn't come back to it's
neutral position; it might stay a little up or down.

To compensate for this they left the zero fret a bit higher when
refretting it and cut small slots into it.  They assume it fixed the
problem as they never heard back from him either way.


Just a few more random factoids to file away. . .

Andy Y.

--- In steinberger_world@y..., "andyyak" <andy@s...> wrote:
> Was just going over my notes for the write-up I'm doing on
> Steinberger Blend construction for the website.  Came across a few
> intersting tidbits about Eddie Van Halen's GL's.


   Andy,

      Thanks for providing another interesting story.  Neat.  After
reading everyone's recent posts regarding MY and Steinberger's future
production, I can't help but feel somewhat bummed out.  For years
I've wondered how this company has had so many hurdles over the years
when it has an incredible product and a true genius of an innovator?
Well, it's obvious that price has had a negative impact on sales,
mainly parts.  I for one have been pushed away by the pricing.  I can
see MY selling Kramers all day and night like the local gear stores
near me.  I was at a club watching a friend play the other night, met
some other guitarist and listened to him tell a story of how much he
likes his Jay Turser.  It costs so little, has a flame top, bla bla
bla. It seems that alot of people have decided that low end with nice
looks is cooler than high end stuff that lasts many years.  The fact
that parts aren't as easily available as most guitars, and customer
support outside of our community is non-existent, makes it tough to
attract new buyers.  I won't let this get in the way of it being one
of my favorite guitars ever.  Maintain the instrument so you can
enjoy it for years, and keep the Steinberger following alive!  Keep
up the great work, it's appreciated.  This message is long enough!

musician1john

Hi,

I'm a bass enthusiast and player who is interested in buying a
Steinberger Spirit bass. I currently own and play an Ibanez
Soundgear. I like it, but there's only one thing that's really
starting to bother me about it - THE STRING SPACING. I measured my
Ibanez bridge and it measured out at 20mm between each string. If
anybody has a Steinberger Spirit XT-2DB Standard bass, please let me
know what the string width is (width between each string, and with
from E to G string). Thanks.

Luke

buster_mb@...

I don't mean to blaspheme, but I really had an experience when I
decided to get into the Steinberger thing a few months ago.  The TT
is a well built bridge, but it is incredibly complicated and requires
exacting tolerances.

I imagine anyone pulling a late 80's Steinberger off eBay will find
themselves in need of a new transposing arm, transposing post, and
bearings at least.  Then, after they change those out they will find
that the jaws slip and they will need new jaws (Type II jaws).  Upon
ordering jaws from MY (or ER), they may not be in exact tolerances
and will require some sanding to fit, etc.  Once they get the jaws
replaced, they will have to set it up every couple of times they play
it because despite the legends and myths, it ain't fool proof.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Steinberger and have enjoyed it very
much.  The little story above has been my experience with it.  Bitter
sweet.  And if I didn't want it so damn bad after studying up on it
via Andy's website, I would have dropped the idea all together.

Anyways, I imagine there will be a retort.  Like I said I am not
trying to be a troll, but my perspective hasn't really followed the
groups in some cases.

--- In steinberger_world@y..., "Troy Fancil" <fancil@k...> wrote:
> I wouldn't buy extra parts out of fear that they won't be
available. The Transtrem is a well built bridge and if you take care,
oil it and change the bearings, it should last a life time.
Remember,  these are the guitars that have been run over by cars and
were still in tune when pulled from the gig bag!
> Troy

--- In steinberger_world@y..., "andyyak" <andy@s...> wrote:

> [C]onsidering what the re-order prices are from Zen-On, [MusicYo
> would] probably rather just sit on their [existing stock]. <

Does Zen-On have an exclusive contract to make Steinberger parts?
There must be many competent foundries and machine shops in Taiwan,
Korea, Hong Kong, or even China that could turn out decent bridges
and parts at a fraction of what Zen-On is apparently proposing to
charge.

By my reckoning, the last Steinberger patent covering the TransTrem
is due to expire in November 2004, and at that time anyone will be
free to produce and sell copies.  Hopefully, competing suppliers will
see fit to do so, and these limited stocks and high prices will soon
be a thing of the past.

Thanks for all of your work on our behalf.

PC Martin
Seattle

That's so funny to me that Eddie complained about the play behind the Zero
fret!  My GU does the same thing!!!!!  I always thought that it was just
'cause it's a cheapo...

Forgive me if this is trivial, or completely obvious, but I'd be
interested to know what kind of stuff is best for cleaning the
Steinberger body, be it wood, composite, hardware and
fingerboard. Any specific products or solutions? Your opinions
and recommendations highly appreciated...

Rad

> Does Zen-On have an exclusive contract to make Steinberger parts?
> There must be many competent foundries and machine shops in Taiwan,
> Korea, Hong Kong, or even China that could turn out decent bridges
> and parts at a fraction of what Zen-On is apparently proposing to
> charge.
>
> By my reckoning, the last Steinberger patent covering the TransTrem
> is due to expire in November 2004, and at that time anyone will be
> free to produce and sell copies.  Hopefully, competing suppliers
> will see fit to do so, and these limited stocks and high prices
> will soon be a thing of the past.


The tooling is the barrier not the patent.  I don't know the exact
contract, but for some reason I believe Zen-On actually owns all of
the tooling, so Gibson/MusicYo is married to them for the time
being.  It'd easily cost into the $10's of thousands to get new
tooling made again.  MusicYo is not very big on speding money on R&D
or production setup that's for sure.   Especially in the current
climate.

I'll add that it's one thing to go into that type of investment
expecting you'll easily be selling 1000 guitars a year.  Quite
another if it's only a maybe a couple hundred.  And having the parts
milled (instead of fogrged) would make them far more expensive than
they currently are.

Andy Y.

Just too much guitar for my purposes now.  I am the original owner
(bought in 1992) and the guitar is in great condition.  I'm no
shredder by any means so I've taken great care of it and wear is
minimal to miniscule.  I believe this is one of the last of its kind
to be made in the Newburgh factory.

I wanted to give the group first dibbs before I ebay'd.  E-mail me
direct for photos @ jkefalas@....  Here's the eBay promo:

Steinberger 1991 ('92?) GM4TA - serial# N14021.  I am the original
owner.  I believe this is one of the last GM4TA's to come out of the
Newburgh factory.  The unbound white body is also a rarity for the
active/active configuration.  This guitar is in PRISTINE condition
with minimal fret-wear and perfect plated brass rollers.  I really
don't dive-bomb or transpose much at all, so the rest of the Trans-
Trem is also in EXCELLENT condition with the bearings/tension working
smoothly/like new.  Pickup config:  SA/SA/85 with HAZ Labs active
circuitry (center detent tone knob) and 5-way pickup config switch.
For more info on ANY Steinberger guitar, go to
www.steinbergerworld.com.  I am selling this guitar because it is
just WAY too much guitar for me.  I have little use for the Trans-
Trem and am a bit nervous to damage it in a live situation.  Take
advantage!  This piece of art originally listed for $2450.00.  Comes
with gig bag (like new), tuner wrench, hex wrench, original invoice,
and Trans-Trem diagram.  CASHIER'S CHECKS ONLY PLEASE!!  Shipping and
neurotically careful packing is $25 in continental U.S. (Hawaii,
Alaska, or Canadian regions may be extra).  SERIOUS BIDDERS WITH
FEEDBACK O-N-L-Y!  All other bids will be cancelled.  Good luck!

Thanks guys.

J.

Sorry!  Asking $1200!

Thanks!


--- In steinberger_world@y..., "jkefalas" <erthdragon@h...> wrote:
> Just too much guitar for my purposes now.  I am the original owner
> (bought in 1992) and the guitar is in great condition.  I'm no
> shredder by any means so I've taken great care of it and wear is
> minimal to miniscule.  I believe this is one of the last of its
kind
> to be made in the Newburgh factory.
>
> I wanted to give the group first dibbs before I ebay'd.  E-mail me
> direct for photos @ jkefalas@y...  Here's the eBay promo:
>
> Steinberger 1991 ('92?) GM4TA - serial# N14021.  I am the original
> owner.  I believe this is one of the last GM4TA's to come out of
the
> Newburgh factory.  The unbound white body is also a rarity for the
> active/active configuration.  This guitar is in PRISTINE condition
> with minimal fret-wear and perfect plated brass rollers.  I really
> don't dive-bomb or transpose much at all, so the rest of the Trans-
> Trem is also in EXCELLENT condition with the bearings/tension
working
> smoothly/like new.  Pickup config:  SA/SA/85 with HAZ Labs active
> circuitry (center detent tone knob) and 5-way pickup config
switch.
> For more info on ANY Steinberger guitar, go to
> www.steinbergerworld.com.  I am selling this guitar because it is
> just WAY too much guitar for me.  I have little use for the Trans-
> Trem and am a bit nervous to damage it in a live situation.  Take
> advantage!  This piece of art originally listed for $2450.00.
Comes
> with gig bag (like new), tuner wrench, hex wrench, original
invoice,
> and Trans-Trem diagram.  CASHIER'S CHECKS ONLY PLEASE!!  Shipping
and
> neurotically careful packing is $25 in continental U.S. (Hawaii,
> Alaska, or Canadian regions may be extra).  SERIOUS BIDDERS WITH
> FEEDBACK O-N-L-Y!  All other bids will be cancelled.  Good luck!
>
> Thanks guys.
>
> J.

> I see the disgussion about LaBellas, what about Smith Electric
> strings for the Steinbergers, and others?  What are the favorites?
>
> Also, if someone uses the flatwounds on their Steinberger...why?  How
> do they sound?

I use tapewounds on my cheap Hohner fretless steinberger copy.  They sound
sorta muddy, but have a nice sorta acoustic bass-ish quality to them.
Definitely took a bit of getting used to.

-D

I just discovered the Steinberger World website and this user group.
I'd like to give anyone here interested in acquiring one of the
finest Steinberger guitars, bar none, I've ever seen let alone had
the privilege to own an opportunity to purchase mine.

I'm offering it to members of this user group first, before I list on
Ebay.  What better place to sell a Steinberger than here?  I've seen
some fantastic "Honey Burst" GM-7TA's sell on Ebay but NEVER a Fire
Burst.

I purchased this guitar as an investment about 2 years ago from
someone who was lucky enough to win it in a Radio contest.  He too
appreciated it as an investment and treated it as such.  I, of
course, continued in that tradition.  Other than setting up the
TransTrem and playing with it for a few hours, it has seen minimal -
and I mean minimal use. This guitar is danm near flawless in every
detail (stain, finish, frets, electronics).

Unfortunately, a search for "posting pictures" here yielded nothing
so I will wait for SERIOUS BUYERS to ask me for pictures of this fine
instrument.  Please, tell me what views (front, back, serial#, etc.)
you would like to see and I will photograph the guitar accordingly
and email the JPEG's to you directly.

For those members lucky enough to live in the San Francisco Bay area
(Santa Clara), we can arrange a meeting for you to personally view
this instrument.  Please bear in mind that I'm also working with the
owners/managers (personal friends) of two guitar stores who are
contacting individuals, on my behalf, that might be interested in
owning this guitar as well.

A Quick Note: true Steinberger aficionados, upon inspection of my
photos, will have a pretty good idea of the value of this unique
instrument. For those new to Steinbegers, please do not waste my time
with low-ball offers as I will simply ignore your emails.  This is a
collectable guitar with a price to match.  Thank you all.

I just joined this user group and I'd like to address Andy Y's.
statement: "And having the parts milled (instead of fogrged) would
make them far more expensive than they currently are"

As it so happens, about six months ago I worked with a machine shop
to mill me a replacement for a stripped spring plunger (the piece
that compresses the main spring via the tension knob on a
TransTrem).  He had never seen a TransTrem before and was intrigued
by it's design but not impressed with the casting.

It seems high-speed CNC milling has come quite a way in the last
decade.  He assured me that he could CNC TransTrems using lighter
steel with tighter tolerances than that found on the TransTrem he
inspected AND that it would be cost competetive with any casting
process.  For him and I, at that time, the patents were the issue.
Hell, he even had an idea for adding tuning LEDs near each of the six
saddles.  I ended up with (3) stainless steel plungers that "smoke"
anything you'd find on any existing TransTrem.  Of course we did not
pursue it past that point but I'd definitely contact him again if
there was serious interest in producing some TransTrems for profit.

--- In steinberger_world@y..., "andyyak" <andy@s...> wrote:
> > Does Zen-On have an exclusive contract to make Steinberger
parts?
> > There must be many competent foundries and machine shops in
Taiwan,
> > Korea, Hong Kong, or even China that could turn out decent
bridges
> > and parts at a fraction of what Zen-On is apparently proposing to
> > charge.
> >
> > By my reckoning, the last Steinberger patent covering the
TransTrem
> > is due to expire in November 2004, and at that time anyone will
be
> > free to produce and sell copies.  Hopefully, competing suppliers
> > will see fit to do so, and these limited stocks and high prices
> > will soon be a thing of the past.
>
>
> The tooling is the barrier not the patent.  I don't know the exact
> contract, but for some reason I believe Zen-On actually owns all of
> the tooling, so Gibson/MusicYo is married to them for the time
> being.  It'd easily cost into the $10's of thousands to get new
> tooling made again.  MusicYo is not very big on speding money on
R&D
> or production setup that's for sure.   Especially in the current
> climate.
>
> I'll add that it's one thing to go into that type of investment
> expecting you'll easily be selling 1000 guitars a year.  Quite
> another if it's only a maybe a couple hundred.  And having the
parts
> milled (instead of fogrged) would make them far more expensive than
> they currently are.
>
> Andy Y.

As Andy mentioned, the patents protect the innovative aspects of the design
for a period of time (on the order of 17 years).  When the patents expire,
another manufacturer can design in these innovations without having to pay a
licensing fee to the inventor - you could start having the eccentric
rotation of the bridge with the intent of having the trem transpose in tune.
But the actual TransTrem design still would belong to Steinberger (the
company/patent holder, not Ned).  Presumably, at any time since the original
production run, whoever owned the design could farm it out wherever they
like, but the tooling and process information is very expensive and often
not transportable from one foundry or fabricator to another.  Often in those
cases, the design holder leaves the production materials (such as molds)
with the fabricator - that's somewhat of an assurance that you'll come back
to them when you want another batch.  In getting to production, each shop
may use slightly different materials and techniques and the molds and
process are adjusted to make the piece produceable.

It would be great if the parts were forged, but, from the earlier
discussion, it's more likely that they're cast which is a lot cheaper, but a
lot less strong.  The zinc-based material sounds like it was probably
cold-cast or sintered - they take metal and chop it into a powder, then
shoot the powder into a mold and cook it.  The resultant part isn't super
strong, but if it will do fine if properly engineered (that's the kind of
modification that the foundry will make to the designer's original plan).
The next stronger parts are hot-cast from molten metal.  If you need
something really strong, then it's forged (you heat a cast piece, then it's
hammered to increase the strength and density of the metal or it's milled
from a billet of metal (you take a block of metal, then remove everything
that *isn't* what you want).  All these processes are used to make things
like auto wheels - you don't have a forged wheel unless you're the proud
owner of a Porsche or Ferrari, and you probably don't have a billet wheel
unless you own a racing car.

I worked at Apple in the past.  The molds for something like the original
Macintosh plastics cost something like $400,000 per set, but much of that
was because they were "hard tooling" - a mold designed to form hundreds of
thousands of parts and fabricated out of pure titanium (which wears better
than steel).  With millions of Macs out there, the tooling ends up adding
not more than a couple of dollars to the piece price, but in low numbers
like TransTrems, setting up with another manufacturer would almost certainly
be prohibitive.

In a later post, nwahulwana[spearson93@...] mentioned that modern CNC
would be an alternative and get you milled parts.  Nowadays, everything is
designed in a CAD system, so conversion to CNC isn't super painful (you
still have to adjust for the eccentricities of your process), but I'll bet
the TransTrem wasn't done that way back in 1980.  So, you'd probably have to
generate super-accurate engineering drawings of all the components, and
build prototypes to refine them and get the bugs out.  This would easily be
tens of thousands of bucks for something like a whole TransTrem, and of
course, you'd be violating Steinberger/Gibson's intellectual property
protections if you didn't have their permission.  But it would probably be
pretty interesting for a MusicYo/Gibson to look at doing this legwork for
some of the "consumable" parts like jaws as the parts cost of having the
milling machine grind them out would be much lower than the setup that's
required for casting.  Hmmm... perhaps there should be an "open source
TransTrem" project after the patents expire!

This is sort of the "problem" with trying to keep something like the
TransTrem alive (in fact, for all the Steinberger stuff).  There was
probably *never* enough demand to justify the tooling and production costs
of these amazing mechanisms.  But Ned, like many of the boutique makers
(Spector, Modulus, Tobias, Zon, etc.) are brilliant inventors/builders that
love to make the best possible thing in the world, even if they end up
losing money on every instrument they sell.  If you sit down and do a
cost/benefit/profit analysis for a TransTrem, or an L-bass, or a Modulus
neck, no sane businessman would go for it.  But if you had this great idea,
and happened to have enough cash to get somebody to build you some, how
could you resist doing that?  At the end of the day, the sober businesman
looks at the cost of doing this and whether he can sell them, and the next
thing you know, Gibson is cranking out really nice new Les Pauls for $15,000
and your new Alembic costs $9500.   Or, you build a guitar where the cost of
the bridge and neck pieces are more than your competition's entire guitar
costs but sell it for the same price, just to get it out there.  The latter
is nice, but it won't be long before that bright inventor is looking for a
new job.

David Fung


> -----Original Message-----
> From: andyyak [mailto:andy@...]
> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 8:02 PM
> To: steinberger_world@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Steinberger World thread Re: MusicYo update for June
>
>
> > Does Zen-On have an exclusive contract to make Steinberger parts?
> > There must be many competent foundries and machine shops in Taiwan,
> > Korea, Hong Kong, or even China that could turn out decent bridges
> > and parts at a fraction of what Zen-On is apparently proposing to
> > charge.
> >
> > By my reckoning, the last Steinberger patent covering the TransTrem
> > is due to expire in November 2004, and at that time anyone will be
> > free to produce and sell copies.  Hopefully, competing suppliers
> > will see fit to do so, and these limited stocks and high prices
> > will soon be a thing of the past.
>
>
> The tooling is the barrier not the patent.  I don't know the exact
> contract, but for some reason I believe Zen-On actually owns all of
> the tooling, so Gibson/MusicYo is married to them for the time
> being.  It'd easily cost into the $10's of thousands to get new
> tooling made again.  MusicYo is not very big on speding money on R&D
> or production setup that's for sure.   Especially in the current
> climate.
>
> I'll add that it's one thing to go into that type of investment
> expecting you'll easily be selling 1000 guitars a year.  Quite
> another if it's only a maybe a couple hundred.  And having the parts
> milled (instead of fogrged) would make them far more expensive than
> they currently are.
>

A while back I asked if anyone knew how to get the
adjustment screw for the transtrem. I still can't find
it. If you know of a place tp order please let me
know.Thank you.   jc

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Sorry about the miss spelling on the first thread. I
need a new spring adjustment assmbley. Thats the screw
and spring compression plate used to adjust the spring
tension for the trem. Again thanks to you all.   jc



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