--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, gabriele piras
<gabbriellino@...> wrote:
>
> Do you know if the 70 CDs set is already available on European or American
Amazon sites? I couldn't find it! Thanks for the informations about the
contents: I can't wait to listen to them, expecially the Barcarola.
>
                                        \
                                      
Gabriele

    The 70 CDs set can be found already on Amazon.fr, Amazon.de and also on
fnac.com. A little surprise in the recital on March 5, 1951 : The Chopin Etude
opus 10 no 4 is played rather slow.
                                    M.M.

Hi!

I got my copy a week ago from amazon.de.
Some of the material is directly from LPs. Maybe never released on CD. Haven´t
checked that yet.

Erkki


> >
> > Do you know if the 70 CDs set is already available on European or American
Amazon sites? I couldn't find it! Thanks for the informations about the
contents: I can't wait to listen to them, expecially the Barcarola.

The set will be released on December 1 on American, Canadian, and British
Amazon.

Hank

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, gabriele piras
<gabbriellino@...> wrote:
>
> Do you know if the 70 CDs set is already available on European or American
Amazon sites? I couldn't find it! Thanks for the informations about the
contents: I can't wait to listen to them, expecially the Barcarola.
>
                                        \
                                      
Gabriele

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brown <mrb@...> wrote:
>
>   amarknicholls wrote:
>
>  > You mean Volodos or Mr Carpenter?
>
> carpenter, though the same thing applies to volodos, and all the other
> speed-demon kids. once you play something at the outer limits of
> technique and/or wacky coloration, what do you do? play it faster/louder
> next season? this is the blind alley the kids are heading toward.
>
Not necessarily a blind alley, sometimes a gateway to discovery & eventually
(hopefully) maturity, I think. Horowitz followed this path after all, setting
new standards along the way, as of course did Liszt to an even great
extent.......It's hard nowadays to see how this developmental pathway could be
continued in the domain of the piano, and Volodos, despite his technical
abilities, is more a technical imitator than innovator...(but also I good
musician, I should say)

Carpenter, on the other hand, may be able to cause a stir in the organ world
because the product he's offering seems relatively novel in the market he's a
targeting - Liberace's audience, mainly, as far as I can see....Personally I
cannot really tell if his 'Revolutionary' transcription is somehow extraordinary
as an organ piece, since all I hear in it is the piano version played slowly and
somewhat crudely. He may as well have transcribed it for penny-whistle: perhaps
an extraordinary technical achievement, but tedious to listen to neverthless...

However, I do admire his enthusiasm and success at communicating that to a wide
audience, even if it is for an instrument I've rarely enjoyed....


Mark

amarknicholls wrote:

  > You mean Volodos or Mr Carpenter?

carpenter, though the same thing applies to volodos, and all the other
speed-demon kids. once you play something at the outer limits of
technique and/or wacky coloration, what do you do? play it faster/louder
next season? this is the blind alley the kids are heading toward.

--
MRB
http://www.fuguewriter.com

not even bad, it sounds ugly!

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "virtuosafatale"
<LaVirtuosa@...> wrote:
>
> http://3.ly/tJr
>

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brown <mrb@...> wrote:
>
> virtuosafatale wrote:
>
>   > http://3.ly/tJr <http://3.ly/tJr>
>
> the volodos of the organ. (his registrations are getting more and weird.
> where will he go from here?)
>
>
You mean Volodos or Mr Carpenter? Haven't heard much of the former recently (is
he playing Brahms 2 at the moment?)...and I only came across Cameron Carpenter
recently....hard to know what to make of him...a very passionate advocate of the
organ...an instrument I have little enthusiasm for, but I do approve of
passionate people.....

Mark

virtuosafatale wrote:

   > http://3.ly/tJr <http://3.ly/tJr>

the volodos of the organ. (his registrations are getting more and weird.
where will he go from here?)


--
MRB
http://www.fuguewriter.com

http://3.ly/tJr

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "max" <max.massei@...> wrote:
>

>    In the message no 5391, about a photography, the man before Horowitz is
Pavel Kogan, his second impresario, after uncle alexander Bodick and before
Merovitch. At that time, Horowitz toured in Russia with his sister Regina and
Nathan Milstein. This photography has been probably made on the occasion of a
concert in Petrograd on December 12, 1923.

Thanks for that. If you're right about the date, then here's the programme of
the concert:

Rachmaninoff: Piano Concerto No.3 in D minor, Op.30
Liszt: Piano Concerto No.1 in E-flat major
         - Alexander Glazunov/State Symphony Orchestra

Glazunov: Violin Concerto in A minor, Op.82
         - Nathan Milstein, violin/Alexander Glazunov, conductor/State Symphony
Orchestra

Quite an occasion....

Mark

I have just received the 70 CD set.
After a first listening, it seems that the Schumann sonata no 3 of the Horowitz
concerts 1975-76 come from the same original takes than the LP disc but this is
not the case for Kreisleriana.( it's enough to listen to the beginning...)
The great novelty is the recital on March 5, 1951. Many renditions are very
impressive. (Prokofiev sonata no 7, Chopin Military Polonaise and Liszt
Hungarian Rhapsody no 6).
The recital on November 12, 1967 is one of the best in the sixties with a
peaceful Chopin Barcarolle (interesting to compare with the one from Yale), some
sensitive Scarlatti sonatas and a stunning Rachmaninov Etude tableau opus 39 no
5.
    In the message no 5391, about a photography, the man before Horowitz is Pavel
Kogan, his second impresario, after uncle alexander Bodick and before Merovitch.
At that time, Horowitz toured in Russia with his sister Regina and Nathan
Milstein. This photography has been probably made on the occasion of a concert
in Petrograd on December 12, 1923. An other picture, without Kogan, can be seen
in the Schonberg's biography. Pavel Kogan wrote his memories in a book, intitled
"Together with musicians". I would like to read that.
                                               M.M.

hank -

   thanks for the exciting news of Volume 5 of the Private Collection!

--
MRB
http://www.fuguewriter.com

Amazon has announced the release of Volume 5 of the Private Collection
for January 5, 2010. It will contain Haydn's Sonata No. 52 in E-flat, and
Beethoven's "Moonlight" and "Waldstein" sonatas.

Hank

Allan,

Please contact me via email.  I have a copy of the 1969 Kreisleriana made
directly from the original LP and would be happy to send it to you, along with a
list of other small inconsistencies that stem from the 1993 set.

Hank

hank_drake44105@...

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, Allan Steckler <ahsteckler@...>
wrote:
>
> If you could send me a list of all these consistencies and errors I will try
> to have them remedied although it is too late to be done for the new set
> that is finished.
> I wished I had this knowledge beforehand
>
> AS
>
>
>
>

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, Ian Walsh <ianclif@...> wrote:
>
> Here are some photos I found while net browsing, which may be of interest to
the group:
>
> 1: Claudio Arrau, Horowitz, Alicia de Larrocha
>
> 2: From left to right.: Vladimir Horowitz,� not identified,� Nathan
Milstein,� Alexander Glazunov.
> ��� [Rare 1925 photo of a concert in which the two youths played under
the baton of the composer.]
>
> 3:The maestro.
>
>
That first picture is priceless - a great one to use for a caption
competition...I offer :'Who are these schmucks?...'

The second pic is interesting too - Horowitz looks remarkably fey in it. Could
the one H has his arms around be Piatigorsky?...can't seem to find online any
pictures of him when he was younger ...

Mark

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "dmanildi" <godowsky@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, Derek Oppen <oppenderek@>
wrote:
> >
> > I thought RCA insisted he wrote out any transcription he recorded -= cant
> > remember who told me but it was decades ago. if so they may be buried in the
> > yale library.
> >
> Not true, except for the 1957 Carmen Fantasy, for which Horowitz sketched out
a rough score for editing purposes. Yale has cataloged and published complete
details of its Horowitz Collection. There are no autograph scores of his
transcriptions there.
>

There's an interview here in which Horowitz mentions never having written his
Mussorgsky arrangement down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYCXZoOF4ds&feature=PlayList&p=D750CBEBC53B8819&p\
laynext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=27

In the same interview he mentions he'd just added 4-5 bars to Carmen 'that
morning'.....again one assumes this was not written down. But
when one considers, for instance, the 4 year period (1947-1951) over which he
was recording Pictures and performing it in public,(plus the time he took to
actually prepare it) it is certainly interesting  that he relied wholly upon
memory to 'maintain' it in his repertory. In fact not writing any of his
transcriptions down implies his supreme confidence in his memory (which
confidence he was subsequently to lose), or perhaps supreme confidence in his
ability - and right - to extemporize on the night such that reproducing an
urtext was never a priority. But then of course we know that pretty much defines
his whole approach to performance....

Incidentally, even though Horowitz did not leave 'autographed scores', there's
no reason to doubt that some people have the ability to transcribe a score from
recordings with complete accuracy, or at least with sufficient accuracy to allow
reliable analysis of their technical structure, which is the point of discussion
here.

Mark

thank you ian!


--

MRB
http://www.fuguewriter.com

 
 

Just for your information SONY will include two previously unreleased recitals from March 5, 1951 & Nov 12, 1967.



On 10/8/09 9:19 AM, "Hank" <hank_drake44105@...> wrote:

 
 

JPC's information confirms what I have heard.  This set is not remastered from scratch.  However, when a superior master to the late 1980s-early 1990s Gold Seal collection exists, it has been used.  Thus, the Beethoven Moonlight and Waldstein Sonatas from 1956 use the 2004 "Classics Library" master.  Likewise, the 1943 Tchaikovsky Concerto with Toscanini uses the source material that appeared in the 1992 Toscanini Collection, rather than the lower quality version that was used in the Gold Seal CD issued in 1990.  There are numerous other examples.  For those of you who are wondering, I have confirmed via the track timings that the correct takes for the 1976 Schumann Concerto without Orchestra will be in this issue.  

As to the 1969 Kriesleriana, the (wrong) takes that were issued on the 1993 boxed set and every CD since will be used again here.  So, hang on to your LPs and the MK series CDs if you still have them.  As to the remastering for the Columbias, Sony is using the 1993 remastering with a few exceptions.  (FWIW, I thought it sounded good.)

If you consider the cost of the set which converts to about $250, that comes to less than $4/disc.  There is no way that Sony/BMG could recoup their costs if they remastered from scratch.  (The alternative would have been to raise the price of the set.)  Plus, I suspect that Sony wanted to get this out in time for the 20th anniversary of Horowitz's death, which also would not have been possible if it was redone from scratch.  This is exactly what was done with the Glenn Gould Original Jacket big box that was released a few years ago.   

By the way, the Chopin Mazurka, Op. 17, No 4 that was issued only on the Japanese version of Horowitz ReDiscovered is part of Disc 39 - which is a collection of odds and ends that were never issued on LP.

Another sidelight: in the early LP era, RCA issued both 10" and 12" LPs, depending on the playing time.  For this set, Sony/BMG is only using the 12" LPs, with one exception: the Brahms Violin Sonata with Millstein, which was originally issued as a 10" and only appeared on a 12" LP decades after the fact.  Also, none of the 45RPM issues are being used.

Will I buy this set.  Probably, I'm a sucker - plus I get sell off the Gold Seals which frees up space on my CD shelves.  But that's just me.

Hank

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com <mailto:the_horowitz_experience%40yahoogroups.com> , "michdys" <michdys@...> wrote:
>
> JPC.de lists the whole content of the CDs and mentions which pieces have
> been remastered and in which year!
> https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Vladimir-Horowitz-Original\
 <https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Vladimir-Horowitz-Original> > -Jacket-Collection/hnum/7954840
> <https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Vladimir-Horowitz-Origina\
 <https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Vladimir-Horowitz-Origina> > l-Jacket-Collection/hnum/7954840>
>
> It seems that nothing new has been remastered, so I guess  the RCA CDs
> haven't been remastered at all.
> Also, some CDs seem to be extremely short (like the former LPs I guess),
> so that's how they get to 70 CD...
>
> Since I already own the Sony Complete Masterworks Recordings (13CD), the
> complete RCA 22 CD set, Last Recording, Discovered treasures, Private
> Collection and the Carnegie Hall unedited, I see no reason why I would
> buy this 70CD set...
>
> On a side note, in the eighties, my first Horowitz CD was the CBS
> highlights from Carnegie Hall (MK 45829). A few years later I bought the
> Sony Complete Recordings, and I must say I was quite disappointed with
> the remastering (Super Bit Mapping): the sound was so much more sterile
> and deprived from 'air', compared to the "CBS Highlights"
>

  
    

Allan Steckler
President
Eroica Productions, inc

52 Nomahegan Court
Cranford, NJ 07016
USA

908 276 7569  Phone
908 709 4130  fax
ahsteckler@...
 
    

dmanildi wrote:

  > How can anyone make such a statement when there are no original
Horowitz manuscripts available?

what a shame, donald ... especially in light of one of the pianists
quoted in the plaskin biography saying that horowitz kept the
manuscripts of the transcriptions in his safe, believing [this pianist
continued] that by not publishing them he would go down in history as
the greatest virtuoso - perhaps it was robert mackenzie, who as you'll
remember was one of the early ones to figure out some of what horowitz
was doing and be able to reproduce some of the transcriptions. somewhat
on my tapes from bob m. i have a recording of his recording of the
"carmen" variations.

perhaps the mss. were destroyed deliberately - or left to someone, in or
out of the will?

--

MRB
http://www.fuguewriter.com

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, Derek Oppen <oppenderek@...>
wrote:
>
> I thought RCA insisted he wrote out any transcription he recorded -= cant
> remember who told me but it was decades ago. if so they may be buried in the
> yale library.
>
Not true, except for the 1957 Carmen Fantasy, for which Horowitz sketched out a
rough score for editing purposes. Yale has cataloged and published complete
details of its Horowitz Collection. There are no autograph scores of his
transcriptions there.

D.Manildi

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brenner
<michael.brenner@...> wrote:
>
> I know a guy name Kong Ju Lee who wrote down the transcriptions.  According
> to Kong, who spent many years getting the transcriptions off the recordings
> and playing them, and has both the ear and the technique to do it, Horowitz
> had a number of slips on the records.
>
> We must also remember that if the Carmen Variations is any proof, Horowitz
> probably would not have placed much stock in fidelity to the text of one
> transcription or another the way, say, a Rachmaninoff might have.
>

Well, I hope Mr. Kong Ju Lee has indicated where, in his versions, he believes
Horowitz made slips and what he thinks the correct notes should be. With the
possible exception of the 1968 Carmen on CBS-TV, all of Horowitz's transcription
recordings derive either from 78s or from live tapes that could not be edited.

As for Carmen, all of Horowitz's various versions, or at least the  approved
recordings, have been written down by different people, allowing freedom of
choice to those who want to attempt them. This is no different from Liszt
preparing alternative or revised versions of his transcriptions and original
pieces.

D.Manildi

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "rachplayer" <greglile@...>
wrote:
>
> There are at least three Horowitz manuscripts known to me, only one of which
is in his hand, however.  The early Etude-Fantasy, the 1957 Carmen and a snippet
of S&S (in his hand.)

My reference was to complete, finished versions of the transcriptions in
autograph score. None of the three cited fit that description.

D.Manildi

There are at least three Horowitz manuscripts known to me, only one of which is
in his hand, however.  The early Etude-Fantasy, the 1957 Carmen and a snippet of
S&S (in his hand.)

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "dmanildi" <godowsky@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "virtuosafatale" <LaVirtuosa@>
wrote:
>
> > FWIW, the Horowitz arrangements can be a a tad ungrateful to the hand at
times.
>
> How can anyone make such a statement when there are no original Horowitz
manuscripts available? The existing notations were all done by various
individuals of varying pianistic ability, and are based on their perceptions of
what happens on the recordings. Consequently, there are multiple attempts at
creating the proper notations, and all differ from each other with no assurance
that any of them resemble what Horowitz actually did--especially with regard to
the actual layout of the notes between the hands.
>
> Horowitz, of course, had an uncanny ability to obtain the maximum effect with
the minimum effort, and this would certainly be evident if he had chosen to
write down his transcriptions exactly as he played them.
>
> D.Manildi
>

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "virtuosafatale"
<LaVirtuosa@...> wrote:

> FWIW, the Horowitz arrangements can be a a tad ungrateful to the hand at
times.

How can anyone make such a statement when there are no original Horowitz
manuscripts available? The existing notations were all done by various
individuals of varying pianistic ability, and are based on their perceptions of
what happens on the recordings. Consequently, there are multiple attempts at
creating the proper notations, and all differ from each other with no assurance
that any of them resemble what Horowitz actually did--especially with regard to
the actual layout of the notes between the hands.

Horowitz, of course, had an uncanny ability to obtain the maximum effect with
the minimum effort, and this would certainly be evident if he had chosen to
write down his transcriptions exactly as he played them.

D.Manildi

--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "virtuosafatale"
<LaVirtuosa@...> wrote:
>
> a better comparison might have been with Liszt
>
> FWIW, the Horowitz arrangements can be a a tad ungrateful to the hand at
times.
>
>
....a good point -  I wouldn't call any of Horowitz's 'official' transcriptions
'easy' - things like the Danse Macabre & HR 2 & 19 are a damned sight more
difficult to play for most pianists than the originals, I think. I think Hough's
reference to 'missing out thousands of notes' refers to pieces that aren't
offered as transcriptions even though the notes aren't the same as the
composers' (I guess the Rach 3 & Vallee d'Obermann come to mind)...

Mark

a better comparison might have been with Liszt

FWIW, the Horowitz arrangements can be a a tad ungrateful to the hand at times.


--- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "amarknicholls" <mark@...>
wrote:
>
> AFAIK, Scriabin never re-worked the compositions of others?....But I admire
your suggestion that Scriabin's music is easier to play than it sounds (assuming
that's what you mean) - I wish I had found that!...
>
> Mark
>
> --- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "virtuosafatale" <LaVirtuosa@>
wrote:
> >
> > Looking backward from the Horowitz era, Scriabin leads the pack
> > in that particular skill.
> >
> > **********Val
> >
> > --- In the_horowitz_experience@yahoogroups.com, "amarknicholls" <mark@>
wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I've always thought that it takes a particularly rare form of pianistic
genius to be able to make a difficult piece sound even more difficult while at
the same time making it easier to play,...
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> >
>