I was able to download the pdf file directly from the attachment on the post. BTW, thanks Owen, interesting and well thought out. 

 

Was wondering if there would be a non-contact way of using this approach to generate MIDI messages? I have attached a pot to my swell pedals, but the overwhelming MIDI seemed to slow down the computer, especially when "pumping" the pedal for emphasis. Wondering if the above "indirect" approach could be a better way of control??

 

Rgds,

Ed

---

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

I also was able to download the pdf file directly from
the attachment on the post. Perhaps it's a Yahoo
thing.

Roy, what is the frequency response of an LDR anyway.
Is there any other reason for not wanting to pass
audio through one?

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

I was able to download the pdf file directly from the attachment on the post. BTW, thanks Owen, interesting and well thought out. 

 

Was wondering if there would be a non-contact way of using this approach to generate MIDI messages? I have attached a pot to my swell pedals, but the overwhelming MIDI seemed to slow down the computer, especially when "pumping" the pedal for emphasis. Wondering if the above "indirect" approach could be a better way of control??

 

Rgds,

Ed

---

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

Hi Roy,

I think I know what is happening. I do not get messages via e-mail. I use the web to read
the group messages. If you look at Owen's message on the group web page, you will see
the attachment box and it says "Attachment(not stored)". As a result, I have no access to
it. That's where the "Files" page comes in.

Regards,

Harold

--- In theatre-sf@yahoogroups.com, Roy Radford <radford_roy@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Harold,
>
> Well, I don't know whether someone has changed the rules, but it attached fine
in my mailbox!
>
> Have fun,
>
> Roy.
>
> "Harold M. Whipps" <hmwhippssr@...> wrote:
> Hi Owen,
>
> You cannot attach anything on or in a message. It will have to be placed in the "Files"
> section. See box on the left of the page.
>
> --- In theatre-sf@yahoogroups.com, Owen Jones <solovoxh@> wrote:
> >
> > For those who are interested in this for their organ, I have attached a pdf file, that
> describes it.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> > http://theatreorgans.com/owenjones/
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Sick of deleting your inbox? Yahoo!7 Mail has free unlimited storage. Get it now.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the theatre-sf
group.

   File        : /levelcontrol.pdf
   Uploaded by : solovoxh <solovoxh@...>
   Description : Expression Control

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theatre-sf/files/levelcontrol.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

solovoxh <solovoxh@...>

As Halloween approaches there is a question someone reading this list
may, I hope, be able to answer.

Can anyone tell me the title and composer [and some history?] of a very
early piece of silent film 'curse' music
as follows?

G-C-E-A-F---EDCBA...

It was discussed ~20 years ago on an NPR radio program about silent film
music.

A comment was made that the copyright owners for this 'curse' music were
quite vigilant in searching
out all performances so they could charge for it's use. I'd really like
to know what silent film it was
originally written for and the other films in which it has been played.

The NPR program featured an interview with the conductor of the
Jacksonville [FL] Symphonie who spoke
of an upcoming Halloween silent film festival for which he would conduct
'The Phantom of the Opera'
orchestral film score live while the others would be played by a theater
organist..

Thanks for any help with my curiosity.

Cliff

I wonder if it would be possible to instruct the swell to MIDI interface
to update the volume level less frequently.

If you are trying to get 128 volume levels from a swing of the shoe,
then I could see how you could flood the MIDI channel with too many
messages in a short time.  I don't think the average listener could
distinguish that many gradations.

OTOH, if you settled for 15 or 20 levels across the span, then there
would be far fewer MIDI messages being sent out for a swing of the swell
shoe.

Seems to be something that should be adjustable in software.

Dave
> I have attached a pot to my swell pedals, but the overwhelming MIDI
> seemed to slow down the computer, especially when "pumping" the pedal
> for emphasis. Wondering if the above "indirect" approach could be a
> better way of control??
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Eugene Hayek

To: theatre-sf@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:48 PM

Subject: Re: [theatre-sf] Re: EXPRESSION CONTROL

I also was able to download the pdf file directly from
the attachment on the post. Perhaps it's a Yahoo
thing.

Roy, what is the frequency response of an LDR anyway.
Is there any other reason for not wanting to pass
audio through one?

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

Of the MIDI files in the files section only HBDAY.mid turns on any
stops when I play it. It turns on 4 stops in the solo with the 4
control changes on channel 16. (I am using MIDI-OX, MIDI Yoke and MIDI
Bar.) The other MIDI files play, but only if I turn on stops manually
or with pistons. Is there some way I can get the piston/stop changes
that are seemingly in the MIDI files on channels 1-3 to function? I
have read of people watching the swells change during playing as well,
but I am not getting any volume changes either. All help appreciated!
Ron

The Barton 3/10 project is progressing well. An alpha version using MidiTzer + GigaStudio has been constructed.

The sound is nice, although quite different from other sample sets. Every pipe is sampled both with and without trem. All samples are 6 to 10 seconds in length and in stereo. Average size is over 200 megabytes per rank. The natural ambiance of the theatre is captured in the sustain portion and in the approximately 0.7 second release samples included with every note of every rank. No additional reverb is needed for stereo (although the final Hauptwerk version will employ convolved reverb for mid and rear channels in an eight channel configuration). It is interesting how important the stereo samples are for ambiance, a note will start in one channel and the reverb will trail off in the opposite channel, giving a real sense of the space.

The current status of the ranks is as follows (complete unless otherwise noted):

·        16' Tuba 85

·        16' Tibia Clausa 85 - missing bottom octave

·        16' Flute 85 - need to re-record entire rank

·        8' Open Diapason 73

·        8' Oboe Horn 61

·        8' Vox Humana 61

·        8' Clarinet 61

·        8' Kinura 61

·        8' VDO 73

·        8' VDO Celeste 61

·        Piano 85

·        Xylophone

·        Chrysoglott - 0% completed

·        Glockenspiel - 0% completed

·        Traps - 90% completed

If you own GigaStudio v3 or GVI and wish to participate in an early alpha test, please contact me.

Joe H.

I midified my Rodgers with the Midibox system. The Midi control for the
Swell operation has an indispensable, adjustable, parameter
called "Deadband". What is does is to define the how much voltage
change (pot movement) is required before Midi commands are transmitted.
The effect is that a positive movement of the Swell pedal is required
to send commands. Just resting the foot on the pedal doesn't send
anything. My setting has about 30 commands between 0 and 127, adequate
resolution and no risk of flooding the system.
There is a definite advantage of using Midi control since most VTPO's
have a Swell box filtering system.
Per S

    I trust this confuses the situation completely! 

I also was able to download the pdf file directly from
the attachment on the post. Perhaps it's a Yahoo
thing.

Roy, what is the frequency response of an LDR anyway.
Is there any other reason for not wanting to pass
audio through one?

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

This is old info but for those that are not aware, both the
Soundblaster Live and the Audigy sound cards have jumpers, J5 on the
Live and J8 on the Audigy that can be used for an analog way of
controlling the sound output level with a momentary rocker type switch
attached to a foot pedal. Push forward, sound increases. Push back,
sound decreases. Only thing is that after you reach the desired level
you have to lift from the pedal. Otherwise the level continues up or
down. Takes a bit of getting use to but it works with a bit of
practice. Just do a web search on these jumper numbers for the
appropriate card and you will find which pin numbers make it go up or
down. Separate momentary foot push buttons  can also be used for up or
down vol if you dont want to build a pedal. You can also mute the
sound with these jumpers. And the environmental audio room acoustics
for the sound output on these cards is a great feature too. The Audigy
can use ASIO drivers also which helps in the latency department. If
this is all too much hassle I guess you can still use midi vol control.

Doesn't seem very realistic. Thanks for the info though.
Russ


patrickmm97 wrote:
> This is old info but for those that are not aware, both the
> Soundblaster Live and the Audigy sound cards have jumpers, J5 on the
> Live and J8 on the Audigy that can be used for an analog way of
> controlling the sound output level with a momentary rocker type switch
> attached to a foot pedal. Push forward, sound increases. Push back,
> sound decreases. Only thing is that after you reach the desired level
> you have to lift from the pedal. Otherwise the level continues up or
> down. Takes a bit of getting use to but it works with a bit of
> practice. Just do a web search on these jumper numbers for the
> appropriate card and you will find which pin numbers make it go up or
> down. Separate momentary foot push buttons  can also be used for up or
> down vol if you dont want to build a pedal. You can also mute the
> sound with these jumpers. And the environmental audio room acoustics
> for the sound output on these cards is a great feature too. The Audigy
> can use ASIO drivers also which helps in the latency department. If
> this is all too much hassle I guess you can still use midi vol control.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

--
Russ Ashworth
Miditzer, for when you just don't have a real Theatre Organ handy.
See www.virtualorgan.com

--- patrickmm97 <patrickmm97@...> wrote:
  ***And the environmental audio room acoustics
for the sound output on these cards is a great feature
too.***

Patrick, this is news to me so I'll check it out.
Thanks for that.

It seems to me that more work will need to be done in
the line of both swell shade volume emulation as well
as acoustical echo/reverb. If the impulse reverbs do
all that is required to replicate what goes on in an
actual theater, then that's enough.

In a theater, when the shades are barely open, little
reflective sound is noticed. The sound gets quite
personal, especially toward the first 1/3rd seating.
On full organ with shade wide open, sound is bouncing
about almost everywhere. This acoustical activity
would be difficult to duplicate by meerly space
identification/replication, using any impulse method
alone IMO. So remembering what I accomplished with the
fibre optics swell pedal, was to send to my DSP's a
varied degree of signal apart from just what was
coming from the organ output signal. The final effect
was excellent but I abandoned my analog ETOP project
when digital sythesis came about. Thanks to Roy and
his new topic, "expression control" I have found my 20
year old project swell pedal. Now I need to build
another one for the other chamber. Hope you all got
the picture attachment.

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

                No, I didn't get any attachement. Did anyone else? 

--- patrickmm97 <patrickmm97@yahoo.com> wrote:
***And the environmental audio room acoustics
for the sound output on these cards is a great feature
too.***

Patrick, this is news to me so I'll check it out.
Thanks for that.

It seems to me that more work will need to be done in
the line of both swell shade volume emulation as well
as acoustical echo/reverb. If the impulse reverbs do
all that is required to replicate what goes on in an
actual theater, then that's enough.

In a theater, when the shades are barely open, little
reflective sound is noticed. The sound gets quite
personal, especially toward the first 1/3rd seating.
On full organ with shade wide open, sound is bouncing
about almost everywhere. This acoustical activity
would be difficult to duplicate by meerly space
identification/replication, using any impulse method
alone IMO. So remembering what I accomplished with the
fibre optics swell pedal, was to send to my DSP's a
varied degree of signal apart from just what was
coming from the organ output signal. The final effect
was excellent but I abandoned my analog ETOP project
when digital sythesis came about. Thanks to Roy and
his new topic, "expression control" I have found my 20
year old project swell pedal. Now I need to build
another one for the other chamber. Hope you all got
the picture attachment.

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

Using an audio circuit to control expression has the advantage of
reducing MIDI traffic, but there are other factors to consider.  If one
wishes to use a MIDI sequencer to record performances, not having MIDI
expression data would mean loss of this important information.  MIDI
expression may also be used by an sample player to emulate the swell
shades with low-pass filter contouring and in some cases controlling
reverberation.

MIDI swell data overflow may or may not be a problem depending on
system used or one's playing style --  everyone know's an organist that
likes to pump the swell pedal to keep the beat :).

The best solution, IMHO, would be to thin out the expression data as
some have suggested.  Perhaps every so many milliseconds, every so many
MIDI messages, or only when the CC value is divisible by 2,3,4...etc.
I have sent a note to Roman Sowa of midi-hardware.com suggesting this
idea for his products.

Joe H.

Using an audio circuit to control expression has the advantage of
reducing MIDI traffic, but there are other factors to consider. If one
wishes to use a MIDI sequencer to record performances, not having MIDI
expression data would mean loss of this important information. MIDI
expression may also be used by an sample player to emulate the swell
shades with low-pass filter contouring and in some cases controlling
reverberation.

MIDI swell data overflow may or may not be a problem depending on
system used or one's playing style -- everyone know's an organist that
likes to pump the swell pedal to keep the beat :).

The best solution, IMHO, would be to thin out the expression data as
some have suggested. Perhaps every so many milliseconds, every so many
MIDI messages, or only when the CC value is divisible by 2,3,4...etc.
I have sent a note to Roman Sowa of midi-hardware.com suggesting this
idea for his products.

Joe H.

Hello to all,

Most pipe organ Swell Machines, or the independent swell shutters used
on theater organs utilized only 8 to 12 stages so why are we trying to
utilize 132 stages ?   ?   ?

Hopefully someone can figure out how to lighten the Midi load to
possibly 12 steps  !

Mel,  TheOrganDoc

I am using 8 stages for the expression in my organ, but there is some
noticeable "stepping" in the volume level.  Perhaps I could find a
way to smooth it out in software a bit?  I use jOrgan for my relay.

Perhaps real organs that use only a few shutters don't sound so rough
because of the room reverb?

--- In theatre-sf@yahoogroups.com, "Don.Springer" <don.springer@...>
wrote:
>
> I am expecting a Midi Solutions Pedal Controller to arrive tomorrow.
>
> I will let you know how it works.
>
> Since it is specifically designed to support continuous input
devices like
> an expression pedal, I am hoping that it will work well.
>
> IF not, I have a usb midi interface that I can use just for the midi
> expression.
>
> However, I will not install unless it is needed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: theatre-sf@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theatre-
sf@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of theorgandoc
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 6:26 PM
> To: theatre-sf@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [theatre-sf] Expression Control
>
>
>
> Hello to all,
>
> Most pipe organ Swell Machines, or the independent swell shutters
used
> on theater organs utilized only 8 to 12 stages so why are we trying
to
> utilize 132 stages ? ? ?
>
> Hopefully someone can figure out how to lighten the Midi load to
> possibly 12 steps !
>
> Mel, TheOrganDoc
>

--- theorgandoc <theorgandoc@...> wrote:

> Hopefully someone can figure out how to lighten the
> Midi load to
> possibly 12 steps  !

Won't that produce quite a "zipper" noise being digital?

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

Does anyone know who this chap is or what organ he is
playing. I think so because a couple of us have left
comments. In other words has he been emailing in this
group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIeOCf-Y0EM

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

--- maxxarcade <AJSTAY@...> wrote:

> I am using 8 stages for the expression in my organ,
> but there is some
> noticeable "stepping" in the volume level.

  It's been called "Zipper" noise since the 80s and
every synth manufacturer has had to fix it with higher
digital resolution and or filtering. The fix being a
memory and resources hog. IMO midi volume is fine now
and living with memory sharing problems comes with the
airline lunch.

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=

--- HMRM461@... wrote:
> Hi Don,
>  > That's Les Knoll.
>  > John
OK?

Eugene Don Hayek
Edonmusic Ramsey NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIrxcTom3k&mode=user&search=
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/2175
http://www.theatreorgans.com/walnuthill/eugenehayek.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mh6oBdCTx8&mode=user&search=