Oh my heavens! Brian. Not these sorts of arguments. I know you honor and
participate in the tradition in a deep and lively way, but looking at it this
way is like looking through a telescope backwards--looking through a confining,
tight little academic lens. And I must admit to a bit of an intellectual thrill
in disecting the tradition in this way--I was a philosophy major in another
lifetime 40 years ago. However...the real thrill is in the singing. And in the
singing with others.

I will admit that thinking about these sorts of definitions and categories
(all pretty much academic (in the broad sense) constructs) has its value,
because, for people like us, revivalists all, if I'm not mistaken, a
self-conscious approach is the only one we are capable of. And a thoughtful and
reasoned self-consciousness is better than an arrogant or an ill-informed one,
but too much self-consciousness is like too bright a sun and can lead to
dessication and paralysis and perfectionism (a cancer of traditional arts, I
think. Consider highland piping and its perfectly uniform, petrified
performances.)

Each singer will draw her own definitional lines at the end of the day, and
these lines will be all over the continuum, from very conservative and
restrictive definitions to more liberal ones to iconoclastic ones.

I find myself on the more conservative side when singing and on the more
liberal side when arguing. After all, if the tradition is going to live, it is
going to change, and as much as we might not like it, things like technological
innovations (recordings, TV) and global commnications ( which introduced the
bouzuki, of all things, into the Irish tradition) are going to move those
changes along. On the other hand, without recordings, none of us, I imagine,
would even know what sean nos singing was let alone enjoy singing it (and enjoy
arguing about it!).

And now that I think about it, I am making this conversation even more
abstract and more removed from singing. For I am offering meta-arguments:
arguing about whether arguing about the subject is valueble or not. Yikes!

I knew that once I started in on something like this, I couldn't stop, but it
is past 2:00 AM and I'd better get this tired old body into bed or I'll get a
sore throat and won't be able to sing!

Cheers to all,

David

Brian Matthew Hart <ohairt@...> wrote:
Thanks for that. I'm always interested with singers'
first impressions of sean-nós. I'm not proposing that
I know all of the answers so that's why I asked the
question. I think you've a good understanding of it
anyhow. So my next question, is it a song tradition
or a singing tradition?

Anybody else?

Brían
--- drew <muse_shop@...> wrote:

>
> Sean-nos as opposed to trad style- hmmm. I could
> tell you how much of an
> expert I am on the subject, and wind up making a
> fool of myself, but
> instead I'll be honest. I didn't know there was a
> difference before
> yesterday! lol- Although what you refer to as
> sean-nos are the songs
> I've always said, "if only I could find a couple
> people to play a
> hurdy-gurdy, bodhran and bones while I sing that
> one..." Keep in mind,
> I'm 35 from North Carolina- since I play neither
> mellow Jerry Garcia
> leads nor blazing Eddie Van Halen solos, a lot of
> people around here
> don't think I 'really' play guitar, lol. So I'm
> pretty much self taught,
> and my own style of music often veers away from what
> a ridgid
> traditionalist would consider good form.
>
> Back to the question, sean-nos seems like a more
> primitive, almost
> tribal form of music. Performing alone gives a
> musician a lot of freedom
> with the ornamentation s/he can use, also with
> rhythm, in the sense of
> missing a beat to take a breath. Actually, some
> sean-nos kind of reminds
> me of some of the Krishna chants- not musically in
> the sense of key and
> rhythm, but just the general "feeling" of the music.
>
> That's my take on your question, really just a first
> impression from a
> beginner to this style of music. Hopefully I'll have
> the chance to hear
> from some people who know more than I about this
> music, who have studied
> it enough to word their answers more proficiently
> than I can!
>
> Drew
>
>
> --- In traditionalirishsinging@yahoogroups.com,
> Brian Matthew Hart
> <ohairt@...> wrote:
> >
> > I've only used an instrument to find a note if I'm
> > a)singing accompanied or b)know my range is
> limited
> > and must sing in that key in order to hit my
> notes.
> >
> > What's your take on what sean-nós singing is as
> > opposed to irish traditional singing?
> >
> > B.
> > --- drew muse_shop@... wrote:
> > > And to start up a topic of conversation, let
> > > me know what you think
> > > of this: I'll admit I don't have the best ear
> for
> > > pitch, so I've found
> > > that tapping out a melody on the xylophone is a
> > > great tool, I can learn
> > > to sing it properly by matching the notes, then
> of
> > > course drop the xy
> > > when it's time to just sing! I'm pretty much a
> loner
> > > musician, that's
> > > just something I came up with and find helpful-
> I'm
> > > curious as to
> > > whether anyone else uses similar resources
> during
> > > practice?
>
> > > -Drew
>
>
>
>

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