--- In tuning@y..., "lev36" <lev@h...> wrote:
> 1. Turkish "classical" instruments such as tanbur and kanun are
> tuned pretty close to what Turkish koma theory would suggest (c.f.
> Signell, Karl, Makam: Modal Practice in Turkish Art Music, Seattle:
> Asian Music Publications, 1977, pp. 155ff.). This classical Turkish
> system is based, ultimately, on the Pythagorean system of al-Urmawi
> (c.f. Touma, Habib, Music of the Arabs, Portland: Amadeus Press,
> 1995, p.l70).


Arel-Ezgi system, as you call "koma theory", has nothing to do with
the traditional system of Urmawi. It depends on the work of Rauf
Yektâ, who adopted Mikhail Meshaqa's 24 division.

See <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/36338>.

> 2. Arab musicians tune either toward 24-TET or to an older,
somewhat
> Pythagorean system devised by al-Farabi (c.f. Touma, 1995, pp.18-
> 28), which includes tones close to 24-TET quartertones.


See the referenced article. 24tet is a practical approach of
explanation rather than being practical.


> 3. Emprical evidence leads me to believe the saz, even in Turkish
> usage, is not tuned strictly according to koma theory, but in fact
> closer to quarter-tones such as found in Arab usage, and is
> therefore based either (a) upon the older, al-Farabi system or (b)
> upon Turkish koma theory but assimilated towards 24-TET
quartertones.


There is no conceptual difference between the tuning of "saz" (or
bağlama, dîvan, cura, tanbura etc.) with that of "classical"
instruments such as tanbur, ud (what I play), kanun et al. Actually,
the distinction between classical and folk is virtual. Most of the
urban folklore use "classical" instruments (especially ud, kanun and
violin) with saz etc.

As far as I have come up with, the only scientific article on saz
tuning was written by Yalçın Tura (Türk Mûsikisinin Mes'eleleri,
Istanbul 1988, pg. 158). I extracted a scale from his article on the
ratios of the frets:

18/17
12/11
9/8
81/68
27/22
81/64
4/3
24/17
16/11
3/2
27/17
18/11
27/16
16/9
32/17
64/33
2/1

I've uploading the .scl version right now:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/files/Scales_by_Ertugrul>


> I have not yet confirmed any of these hypotheses, and am still
> collecting data.
>
> I intend to do some fieldwork this summer among traditional Arab
and
> Turkish musicians, but if anyone here has some info that can help
> me, please let me know!


Please keep in mind that you should refer to "real music" instead of
contemporary second hand theoretical materials, which are I dare to
say crap. Especially the -what you call- "koma system" has nothing to
do with the perfprmance practice. No instrument is ever tuned or
played in that system.

For the most accurate tunings, search vocal recordings by Münir
Nureddin Selçuk and Kâni Karaca (latter of who is still alive and
performing) and instrumental ones by Tanbûrî Cemil Bey, Ûdî Nevres
Bey, Mesud Cemil, Refik & Fâhire Fersan, Şerif Muhyiddin Targan,
Necdet Yaşar, Niyâzi Sayın, İzzettin Ökte, Yurdal Tokcan etc.

If you are into theory that much, a copy of "Tedkík u Tahkík" by
Abdulbâkí Nâsır Dede lies in the library of Suleymâniye, IST.

Hth,
Ertugrul