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Reply Message #54026 of 104655 |
Re: Xenharmonic bridges

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> > my whole idea of "xenharmonic bridging" is based on the
> > fact that certain lower-prime-limit pitches emulate those
> > which *define* higher-prime-limit pitches.
>
> Here are some xenharmonic bridges:
>
> 5-limit
>
> 16/15, 135/128, 81/80, 32805/32768
>
> 7-limit
>
> 200/189, 28/27, 36/35, 525/512, 64/63, 875/864, 126/125,
> 225/224, 5120/5103, 65625/65536, 4375/4374
>
> 11-limit
>
> 77/75, 45/44, 55/54, 56/55, 99/98, 100/99, 176/175, 896/891,
> 385/384, 441/440, 1375/1372, 6250/6237, 540/539, 5632/5625
>
> We might call a temperament "brigable" if it can be defined in terms
> of xenharmonic bridges. The classic example would be meantone,
where
> 81/80 bridges 3 to 5, 126/125 or 225/224 bridges 5 to 7, and 99/98
or
> 385/384 (depending on which version we want) bridges 7 to 11.
>
> 5 ~ 3^4/2^4
>
> 7 ~ 5^3/2 3^2
>
> 11 ~ 2^7 3 / 5 7 (385/384) or
>
> 11 ~ 2 7^2 / 3^2 (99/98)

So pajara, defined in terms of 64/63 and 225/224, would
be "bridgable", right? Or do you need to modify your definition?

> A bridgable temperament has a fifth as a generator and an octave as
a
> period, which makes it of a rather particular kind.

Pajara has a half-octave period.




Mon Jul 5, 2004 11:24 pm

wallyesterpa...
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Message #54026 of 104655 |
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hi Gene, ... i think it would be right and proper to honor Boethius by naming something after him! i'm still trying to understand why George objects to ...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
12:29 am

... where ... or ... So pajara, defined in terms of 64/63 and 225/224, would be "bridgable", right? Or do you need to modify your definition? ... a ... Pajara...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 5, 2004
11:24 pm

... No, because you don't have a {2,3} to 5 bridge. In fact, pajara is not bridable from any pair of primes, since none of the coefficients of the wedgie is...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith Offline Send Email
Jul 7, 2004
9:29 pm

... So it seems that you do, indeed, need to modify your definition, to say what you want it to mean. ... This is the first reference to "pair of primes" I'm...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 7, 2004
10:27 pm

... I didn't define it to mean "has a wedgie which can be defined in terms of xenharmonic commas", which is a pointless claim in limits above 5. I meant it...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith Offline Send Email
Jul 7, 2004
10:41 pm

... next ... Monz didn't say "next prime limit" -- it can be any higher prime limit -- but it looks like you've satisfactorily patched up your definition now....
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 7, 2004
10:46 pm

hi Paul and Gene, ... when i first came up with the idea of a "xenharmonic-bridge", back in 1998, it was specifically in connection with Eratosthenes's use of...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2004
6:04 am

... just to clarify: that xenharmonic-bridge in Eratosthenes is thus a 3==19 bridge. so it skips 5 primes in between. -monz...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2004
6:09 am

... These are the kind of xenharmonic bridges used in sagittal, so we might call them sagittal bridges: Definition 1: A *xenharmonic bridge* is a small...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2004
7:33 am

... they look good to me ... but i'm interested in what others have to say, particularly Paul. -monz...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2004
11:35 am

... Looks good to me! Dave/George?...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2004
6:57 pm

... The linchpin of the Sagittal system is 4095:4096 (3^2*5*7*13:2^12, ~0.423c), as mentioned in our XH18 article, page 5, paragraph 3. A "preprint" of this is...
George D. Secor
gdsecor Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2004
9:28 pm

... Most of your notation symbols are what I wanted to call a sagittal bridge, so what would you suggest as an alternative?...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith Offline Send Email
Jul 8, 2004
10:14 pm

... Notational bridges? Surely they existed and were used as such with other symbols before the sagittal symbols were invented for them....
Dave Keenan
dkeenanuqnetau Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
2:01 am

... the sagittal symbols ... As eg Boethius. Boethius bridge it is, I guess, but it's clear these are very important to Sagittal....
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
2:57 am

... before ... these ... Yes. But Sagittal also has symbols whose primary comma role is of the form 2^n.3^m.p^2 or 2^n.3^m.p.q or 2^n.3^m.p/q where n,m are...
Dave Keenan
dkeenanuqnetau Offline Send Email
Jul 10, 2004
12:24 am

... Aha! -Carl...
Carl Lumma
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Jul 8, 2004
3:19 pm

... http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/53929 ... while ... ***This is really fascinating, Paul, but could you please elaborate a little bit in...
Joseph Pehrson
jpehrson2 Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
1:17 am

... a ... to ... Exactly. Every time you eliminate a comma, you effectively slice the lattice in two places (a comma apart), and connect the two ends together....
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
1:58 am

hi Paul and Joseph, ... i'll elaborate a bit more, in hope of helping both of you understand me better ... of course i understand that a composer who is...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
6:07 am

... http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/54275 ... ***Well... that's pretty amazing. That should be fun to do, and probably worth the price of...
Joseph Pehrson
jpehrson2 Offline Send Email
Jul 10, 2004
11:52 pm

hi Joe, ... yes, it *is* a lot of fun! not to mention how nice it is, after all these years of laboriously drawing lattices by hand, to set up a tuning system...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 11, 2004
2:43 am

... http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/54263 ... periodicity ... cylinder), ... elaborate ... have ... the ... explicit ... lattice, ... away....
Joseph Pehrson
jpehrson2 Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
5:55 pm

... Would you be so kind as to read the Robert Kelly article Monz just dug up? Much of it concerns this exact topic, and it's from "music academia", so it...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
7:37 pm

... http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning/message/54311 ... ***Yes, I looked through this and found this dissertation very interesting! Anybody who...
Joseph Pehrson
jpehrson2 Offline Send Email
Jul 11, 2004
12:21 am

hi Joe, ... well, if you thought *that* was fun, then you should find some of Martin Vogel's numerous books (all in German except one) where he has a *field...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 11, 2004
2:46 am

... While I can see the derivation of these geometrical temperament models, I completely failed to see why "block" shouldn't be used for any of these....
klaus schmirler
kschmir Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
9:18 am

... The Robert Kelly paper Monz cited may help others see it too. ... Because a "block" has confining borders which these don't. ... Can you please elaborate...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
7:30 pm

hi Paul and klaus, ... i think klaus simply means that the "8ve"-equivalent (i.e., ignore prime-factor 2) 5-limit lattice is a 2D structure, thus, it cannot...
monz
joemonz Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
11:02 pm

... Well, they're "hyper-blocks", certainly. They've always been referred to simply as "blocks", since for example just saying "11-limit" already implies that...
wallyesterpaulrus
wallyesterpa... Offline Send Email
Jul 9, 2004
11:21 pm
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