Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
tuning · Welcome to the Alternate Tunings Mailing List.
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Werckmeister's Septinarius temperament   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #69744 of 85461 |
Werckmeister's Septenarius temperament

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:
>
> Tom has a web page on this I'm trying to decipher:
>
> http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~tdent/septenarius.html
>
> It it he presents the deviations from JI fifths for his two
> reconstructions of this temperament in terms of a new (to me) and
> horrible notation for positive rational numbers, whereby p/q > 1 is
> written +p:q and p/q < 1 is written -p:q. Could we PLEASE stick to the
> standard mathematical notation everyone learned in grade school?
>

The DEFINITION of the scale is in the monochord numbers, which are the
first table in the webpage. I was working on the assumption that
people would start at the beginning and read towards the end...


Therefore the scale is defined to be (apologies for malformed Scala)

! sep.scl
Septenarius scale (choose either value of D)
12
!
1
196/186 = 98/93
196/176 or 196/175
196/165
196/156 = 49/39
196/147 = 4/3
196/139
196/131
196/124 = 49/31
196/117
196/110 = 98/55
196/104 = 49/26


The notation Gene dislikes is not a notation for numbers; it is a
notation for tempering of fifths. It's actually the way Werckmeister
set out his fifths. It's certainly not the definition of the tuning.

Anyway, you are correct that G#-D# is a typo on my part. Try a wide
fifth tempered by 496/495. Where Gene got 4448/4455 from I can't tell.

392/393 * 524/525 * 350/351 * 416/417 * 278/279 * 496/495 * 440/441
*(3^12)/(2^19) = 1

No need for any integer exceeding 525!

~~~T~~~





Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:59 am

sphaerenklang
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #69744 of 85461 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Tom has a web page on this I'm trying to decipher: http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~tdent/septenarius.html It it he presents the deviations from JI fifths...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
Offline Send Email
Feb 12, 2007
8:16 pm

... // ... Thank you, Gene. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email
Feb 12, 2007
10:16 pm

... ... Once more - this scale is NOT correct. Honestly, all you have to do is read the webpage from start to finish to find out exactly what Werckmeister...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
11:59 am

... Give the scale or don't give it, but please don't blame other people for your failures....
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
7:06 pm

... MY failures? What the hell do you mean by that? The very first table in the webpage gives the scale with complete clarity; for an unfathomable reason, some...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
Offline Send Email
Feb 14, 2007
1:02 pm

Hi gene your scale has degrees of 1568-edl you can see something about this EDl-based well temperament and 196-EDL and The Septenarius, Werckmeister's mythical...
Mohajeri Shahin
acousticsoft...
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
11:08 am

... The DEFINITION of the scale is in the monochord numbers, which are the first table in the webpage. I was working on the assumption that people would start...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
12:01 pm

... and ... is ... to the ... the ... Scala) ... Werckmeister ... tuning. ... tell. ... Apparently you missed this earlier post of mine......
Cameron Bobro
misterbobro
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
12:26 pm

... Believe it or not, Tom, I have about 2323 phone calls, 30949 e-mails, and 3909409 web pages to answer and read every day, only a fraction of them about...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
4:31 pm

... ! septenarius.scl Septenarius scale ('Werckmeister VI') 12 ! 98/93 ! =196/186 196/175 ! 196/176 apparently a typo 196/165 49/39 ! =196/156 4/3 ! =196/147 ...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
4:39 pm

... It's got one sharp fifth, but no thirds sharper than 81/64 like Paul's Continuo tuning. It does have a fifth even flatter than the 1/4-comma fifths he so...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
4:46 pm

... Indeed... "the major thirds are perfectly consistent with Werckmeister's other tunings [of 1691]: the purest lie at F-A and C-E, while the little-used...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
5:53 pm

... The dynamic range of WTs is quite narrow, even if you do things like allow sharp fifths. Listening tests here suggest that it's harder to distinguish them...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email
Feb 14, 2007
3:12 pm

... Oh get off it, Carl! There are a lot of serious people doing a lot of very good and solid research in this field. There's also a lot of good, solid...
Paul Poletti
losekanon
Offline Send Email
Feb 14, 2007
3:42 pm

... That's mainly because most of the ones that have been tested here aren't very unequal, and/or because of acoustic conditions (timbre and sustain). Try...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
Offline Send Email
Feb 16, 2007
6:37 pm

... When in the history of circulating temperament did anyone *ever* use a temperament as unequal as grail--which tested out very nicely?...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
Offline Send Email
Feb 16, 2007
8:07 pm

... Rameau's 1726 advice asks for a run of 7 quarter-comma fifths (starting on either C or Bb) then gradual widening over the remaining 5, the last two being...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
Offline Send Email
Feb 17, 2007
7:30 pm

... If we were to have a color test with things like cold orange-reds and a warm red-oranges, would you say that the colors are hard to distinguish based on a...
Cameron Bobro
misterbobro
Offline Send Email
Feb 18, 2007
4:44 am

... No, but I couldn't even tell the difference between all of the scales. And as I said, I wasn't trying to identify them, either; just rate their consonance...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email
Feb 18, 2007
6:49 pm

... The alternative is Werckmeister's actual figures, but those give screwy results, and assuming he made a writeo clears that up....
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
7:56 pm

... Which are NUMBERS. This is, without doubt or question, a nonstandard notation for positive rational numbers. Had they been given correctly in this notation...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
Offline Send Email
Feb 13, 2007
7:45 pm

... W's modified stringlengths can be interpreted as absolute frequencies of an 5ths circle: a'440Hz a220 A110 e'330 e165 b' 495 1485/1484 f#"742 f#'371 ...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
Offline Send Email
Apr 12, 2007
6:59 pm

... F and F# are the same note....
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
Offline Send Email
Apr 12, 2007
9:41 pm

Comments below! ... frequencies ... Instead of 496 and 372. This avoids having a wide e-b fifth and is better for G major and D major. ... I don't think this...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
Offline Send Email
Apr 13, 2007
12:06 am

... right, in order to get rid of the oversharp wolfs in W's original stringlength numbers, alike in his famous #3 the 'quaternarius' has only 4 flattend and 8...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
Offline Send Email
Apr 13, 2007
6:24 pm

... agreed, hence i do return to W's original 131. ... also right, hence so the resulting ratios get even more simple: The calculations benefit from that by...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
Offline Send Email
Apr 17, 2007
6:53 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help