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25:30:35:45   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #70147 of 85343 |
Bach-squiggle from Werckmeister's Septenarius, wasRe: half-diminished septima...

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...>
wrote:

> You (it was: Tom Dent) are raising 16/9 by 225/224 to get 25/14,...
Just that subdivsion of the SC=81/80 into =(225/224)(126/125)
2 superparticular factors happens also too @ notes

!280! D. 28/25 =(10/9)(126/125) = (225/224)(9/8)
!420! A. 42/25 = (5/3)(126/125) = (225/224)(27/16) see down

in my first 1999 Bach-squiggle interpretation as an cycle of a dozen
partially temperated 5ths:

Subdivision of the PC:=3^12/2^19 into 8 superparticular factors:
http://www.strukturbildung.de/Andreas.Sparschuh/

A. 105,210; !420! cps (or Hz) @ begin
E. 157; _314_ ;/(315:=105*3)
B. 235; _470_ ;/(471:=147*3)
F# 11,22,44,88,176; _352_ ;704/(705:=235*3)
C# 33:=11*3
G# 99:=33*3
Eb _297_ :=99*3
Bb ; _445_ ,890/(981:=297*3)
F. ; _333.5_ ;667,1334/(1335:=445*3)
C. 125; _250_ ;500,1000,2000/(2001:=667*3)
G. 187; _374_ ;/(375:=125*3)
D. 35,70,140; !280! ;560/(561:=187*3)
A. 105:=35*3 cycle terminates @ same pitch as already on start

short:
A 314/315 E 470/471 B 704/705 F# C# G# Eb 890/891 Bb 1334/1335 F
2000/2001 C 374/375 G 560/561 D A

Consiting in a decomposition of the PC into the 8-fold product:
PC = 3^12/2^19 = 531441/524288 =

(315/314)(471/470)(705/704)(891/890)(1335/1334)(2001/2001)(375/374)(560/561)

That's recombined in ascending pitch-order in
_abs_ frequency/pitch-name/relative ratio/deviation from 3&5 limits
..................................................................
_250_ C. __1/1__ = middle 'C' has absolute 250 cps or Hz
_264_ C# 132/125 = (256/243)(8019/8000) = (99/100)(16/15)
!280! D. _28/25_ = (10/9)(126/125) = (225/224)(9/8) see initial rem.
_297_ Eb 297/250 = (32/27)(8019/8000) = (99/100)(6/5)
_314
_333.5F. 667/500 = (4/3)(2001/2000) tiny sharp 4th
_352_ F# 176/125 = (10/7)(616/625) = (176/175)(7/5) ~sept. tritone
_374_ G. 187/125 = (374/375)(3/2) flat 5th
_396_ G# 198/125 = (128/81)(3969/4000) = (49/50)(8/5 octaved down 3rd)
!420! A. _42/25_ = (5/3)(126/125) = (225/224)(27/16) syntonic vs. pyth
_445_ Bb _89/50_ = (16/9)(801/800) = (89/90)(9/5)
_470_ B. _47/25_ = (15/8)(376/375) = (6016/6075)(243/128)
_500_ c' __2/1

attend also @ Bb: SC:=81/80=(801/800)(89/90)

!sparschuh1999.scl
!
Sparschuh's 1999 interpetation of J.S. Bach's 1722 WTC squiggles
12
!
! 1/1 ! 1.000
132/125 ! 1.056
28/25 ! 1.12
297/250 ! 1.188
157/125 ! 1.256
667/500 ! 1.334
176/125 ! 1.408
187/125 ! 1.496
198/125 ! 1.584
42/25 ! 1.68
89/50 ! 1.78
47/25 ! 1.88
2/1 ! 2.000


that was inspired by Andreas Werckmeisters squiggle on p.91 of
his "Musicalische Temperatur" Quedlinburg 1691
and his "Septenarius"-tuning Chap. XXVII pp.71-74
http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~tdent/septenarius.html


C. 393/392; _196_ ;98,49 := 7^2 initialization
G. 525/524,264; _131_ :=393/3
D. 351/350; _175_ :=525/3 original questionable 176 corrected to 175
A. _117_ :=351/3
E. _156_ ;78,39:=117/3
H. 417/416,208; _104_ ;52,26,13:=39/3
F# 279/278; _139_ :=417/3
C# _186_ ;93:=279/3
G# 495/496,248; _124_ ;62,31:=93/3
D# _165_ :=495/3
B. 441/440,220; _110_ ;55:=165/3
F _147_ :=441/3
C 49:=147/3 back home @ 7*7=49

PC decomposition:
C 392/393 G 524/525 D 350/351 A E H 416/417 F# 278/279 C# G# 496/495
D# B 441/440 F C

Yielding the recombined string-lengnts in descending counting-order:

196 C. __1/1__
186 C# _98/93_ = (256/243)(3969/3968) = (245/248)(16/15)
175 D. 196/175 = (10/9)(882/875) = (1568/1575)(9/8)
165 D# 196/165 = (32/27)(441/440) = (98/99)(6/5) superparticular
156 E. _49/39_ = (5/4)(196/195) = (3136/3159)(81/64)
147 F. __4/3__
139 F# 196/139 = (7/5)(140/139) = (686/695)(10/7) tritone
131 G. 196/131 = (416/417)(3/2) tiny flat 5th
124 G# _49/31_ = (128/81)(3969/3968) =(245/248)(8/5)
117 A. 196/117 = (5/3)(196/195) = (3136/3159)(27/16)
110 B. _98/55_ = (16/9)(441/440) = (98/99)(9/5) superparticular
104 H. _49/26_ = (15/8)(196/195) = (3136/3159)(243/128)
098 c' __2/1__

have a lot of fun with that




Fri Mar 2, 2007 7:54 pm

a_sparschuh
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Message #70147 of 85343 |
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I find this to be a good half-diminished seventh, but could not see it included in SCALA. Oz....
Ozan Yarman
ozanyarman
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Feb 27, 2007
1:45 pm

... All the terms are divisible by 5.... it's really a 5:6:7:9! -A....
Aaron Krister Johnson
akjmicro
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Feb 27, 2007
3:50 pm

From: "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@...> To: "Tuning List" <tuning@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 3:25 AM Subject: [tuning]...
Danny Wier
dawier
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Feb 27, 2007
4:58 pm

From: "Danny Wier" <dawiertx@...> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [tuning] 25:30:35:45 ... In...
Danny Wier
dawier
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Feb 27, 2007
5:08 pm

... Perhaps because it's not in lowest terms? -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Feb 27, 2007
5:35 pm

... Why are you writing it like that, and not as 5:6:7:9? Or you could use my favorite arrangement of this chord, 6:7:9:10, the point of which is that we have...
Gene Ward Smith
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Feb 27, 2007
7:02 pm

Ah, clumsy me. Thanks for the reminder! Oz. ... From: "Aaron Krister Johnson" <aaron@...> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 27 Şubat 2007 Salı...
Ozan Yarman
ozanyarman
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Feb 27, 2007
9:35 pm

SNIP ... I'm not a math wiz like you, that's why. Or you could use ... I find the inversion so zesty, that I like to employ it in 79 MOS 159-tET. On the other ...
Ozan Yarman
ozanyarman
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Feb 27, 2007
9:37 pm

... is ... tET. Which one is the inversion? ... No, but that's a different chord....
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Feb 27, 2007
10:50 pm

... From: "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@...> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com> Sent: 28 Şubat 2007 Çarşamba 0:41 Subject: [tuning] Re: 25:30:35:45 ...
Ozan Yarman
ozanyarman
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Feb 27, 2007
11:26 pm

<<< It would be some sort of "harmonic" half-dim seventh, since I think of 7/5 as an augmented fourth more than a diminished fifth. It's also a harmonic ninth...
Billy Gard
duckfeetbilly
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Feb 28, 2007
6:44 am

... in the ... don't ... German ... In a meantone tuning, that emerges as the utonal tetrad. One voicing for it was made popular by Wagner--the Tristan chord:...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Feb 28, 2007
8:23 am

... think of ... harmonic ... Yes. If treated as a kind of fifth 5:7 must be called subdiminished. ...
Dave Keenan
dkeenanuqnetau
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Mar 1, 2007
12:34 pm

... think of ... harmonic ... There is ... else has ... the just ... With my proposal to tune the dominant 7th in common practice as 4:5:6:50/7, i.e....
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
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Mar 1, 2007
8:19 pm

... You are raising 16/9 by 225/224 to get 25/14, but that means you are sharp by a septimal kleisma of the subdominant. This means you are going to get into...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Mar 1, 2007
8:49 pm

... Sure, but it's comparable with the 1/4-comma shifts of adaptive JI, which I think are a reasonable model for flexible intonation in cases where comma...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
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Mar 2, 2007
12:02 am

... (225/224)^3/(81/80) = 703125/702464, a comma which has been sitting around on my 7-limit comma list for years without me or anyone else paying it much...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Mar 2, 2007
12:49 am

... ...if you must. 'Tertiadec' is as good a name as any other. The main reason why I would get excited about it is not any relation with an et, rather the...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
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Mar 2, 2007
4:45 pm

Hiya Tom, What's the mapping for this temperament? Can you show how a dominant 7th chord would be notated? -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Mar 2, 2007
6:09 pm

... I'm not sure what 'mapping' means in this context. If we take the unit to be 1/3 comma then a pure third is C E_3 now the 5-limit 'just' tritone is C F#_3 ...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
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Mar 3, 2007
12:09 am

... Just that subdivsion of the SC=81/80 into =(225/224)(126/125) 2 superparticular factors happens also too @ notes !280! D. 28/25 =(10/9)(126/125) =...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Mar 2, 2007
8:22 pm

... I took the list of all 11-limit pairwise consonant tetrads in 72-et, and checked for the smallest "Tymoczko distance" to this chord. Here Tymoczko distance...
Gene Ward Smith
genewardsmith
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Mar 1, 2007
9:49 pm

<<< In a meantone tuning, that emerges as the utonal tetrad. One voicing for it was made popular by Wagner--the Tristan chord: F-B-D#-G#. How does the voicing...
Billy Gard
duckfeetbilly
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Mar 1, 2007
3:37 am

... 1/(9:7:6:5) is a supermajor minor seventh (SMm7). ... 1/(10:9:7:6) would probably just be a bad voicing of the above, although if pushed you could call it...
Dave Keenan
dkeenanuqnetau
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Mar 1, 2007
12:53 pm
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