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A Rational Well Temperament   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #75856 of 85346 |
Re: A Rational Well Temperament

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Kalle Aho" <kalleaho@...> wrote:

> > > > I think it is
> > > > 90:95:101:107:113:120:127:135:143:151:160:169:180

That's made by construction in 5ths:
C = 90 45
G = 3C = 135
D: (3G=405) > 404 202 101
A: (3D=303)> 302 151
E: (3A=453) > 452 226 113
B: (3e=339) > 338 169
F# (3B=507) < 508 254 127 attend the broade layperson's dog-5th
C# (3F#=381) > 380 190 95
G# (3C#=285) < 286 143 another even worser wide dog-5th
Eb (3G#=429) > 428 214 107
Bb (3Eb=321) > 320 160 80 40
F = 3Bb = 120 60 30 15
C = 3F = 45 cycle closed


>... there is the wide fifth 143/95 which is tempered by 286/285,
> about 2/7 comma.
that sound none well, but is still only good,
if you really intend there an 'open' 5th alike in meantonics.
> > >
> > > Noting that 285=3*95, I think the smallest base number that
allows all
> > > fifths to be tempered less than 321/320 will turn out to be over
107.
> > What about ?
> >
> > 125:132:140:148:157:167:176:187:198:210:222:235:250
>
in 5ths cycle:
C 125
G (375) > 374 187
D (561) > 560 280 140 70
A 210 105
E (315) > 314 157
B (471) > 470 235
F# (1175) < 1184 592 148 74 37 even worser wide than the above ex.
C# 222 111
G# (333) < 334 167 another problematic wide 5th
D# (501) > 500 250 125

in order to fix such ugly broade-5th bugs, just consult my:
http://www.strukturbildung.de/Andreas.Sparschuh/Mainz_1999.jpg
without such dog-5ths defects,
as found in some 'esotheric' reinterpretations,
that do not appear in my 1999 original 'discovery' version.

> Wait! There's even better one
> 101:107:113:120:127:135:143:151:160:169:180:191:202
> No fifth differs more than 1/4 pythagorean comma from just.

That's expanded:
C: 101
G: (303) > 302 151
D: (453) > 452 226 113
A: (339) > 338 169
E: (507) < 508 254 127 at least barely only one broade 5th
B: (381) > 382 191
F# (573) > 572 286 143
C# (429) > 428 214 107
G# (312) > 320 160 80 40 20 10 5
Eb 15
Bb 45
F: 135
C: (405) > 404 202 101
>
> And with this
>
> 131:139:147:156:165:175:185:196:208:220:234:247:262
> No fifth differs more than 321/320 from just.
>
C 131
G (393) > 392 196 98 49
D 147
A (441) > 440 220 110 55
E 165
B (495) > 494 247
F# (741) > 740 370 185 {Proposal in order to get rid of the dog}
C# (555) < 556 278 139 { here you'd better let 555 unchanged }
G# (417) > 416 ... 13 {...832 1664 < (1665 = 3*555) }
Eb 39
Bb 117
F: (351) > 350 175 instead W's choice 176=11*2^4
C: (525) > 524 262 131

{considering that little change converts your's originally
'open'-tuning into an
"well"-temperament in the sense of W. & Bach, without the dog}

Attend:
Already Werckmeister used almost about the same ratios in:
http://www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~tdent/septenarius.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werckmeister_temperament#Werckmeister_IV_.28VI.29:_\
the_Septenarius_tunings


A.S.




Wed Apr 9, 2008 7:54 pm

a_sparschuh
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Message #75856 of 85346 |
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... Wait! There's even better one 101:107:113:120:127:135:143:151:160:169:180:191:202 No fifth differs more than 1/4 pythagorean comma from just. And with this...
Kalle Aho
kalleaho
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Apr 9, 2008
5:47 pm

... That's made by construction in 5ths: C = 90 45 G = 3C = 135 D: (3G=405) > 404 202 101 A: (3D=303)> 302 151 E: (3A=453) > 452 226 113 B: (3e=339) > 338 169 ...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Apr 9, 2008
7:54 pm

... Hi, Kalle. I was intrigued by some of these & plugged the numbers into one of my spreadsheets. Unfortunately, ... ... There's some harmonic waste in this...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 9, 2008
9:18 pm

... Hi George, these were just answers to Tom's question. I know they have harmonic waste. My original suggestion ...
Kalle Aho
kalleaho
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Apr 9, 2008
9:44 pm

... numbers into ... on 127 ... Okay, I see now. Regarding your original suggestion, I have both positive and negative comments. (I'll give the negative...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 10, 2008
5:46 pm

... go ... consecutive ... After writing that, I wondered how low the numbers could be for a WT with all of the pure fifths occurring consecutively (and no...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 10, 2008
6:04 pm

... This should be 128/91....
Kalle Aho
kalleaho
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Apr 11, 2008
11:06 am

... Oops, thanks for spotting that! Here, then, is the corrected listing: ! WTPB-24c.scl ! George Secor's 24-triad proportional-beating well-temperament (24c)...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 11, 2008
5:29 pm

... That still has the error! :) But I've got it straight anyway. I'm going to be auditioning these in a few days. If anything interesting happens I'll post....
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Apr 11, 2008
8:58 pm

I just tried this scale out, and I think it is an clear improvement over 12-edo. Switching between the two, the difference is obvious. 12-edo sounds busy and...
Magnus Jonsson
zealmange
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Apr 12, 2008
2:31 am

Hi Magnus, did you try my original suggestion too? ! 12 ! 123/116 65/58 69/58 73/58 155/116 41/29 3/2 46/29 195/116 207/116 219/116 2/1 (It's funny that there...
Kalle Aho
kalleaho
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Apr 12, 2008
3:59 am

... I know people who feel this way about well temperaments, but personally I can't tolerate 3rds over 404 cents. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Apr 12, 2008
4:47 am

... It may help that I am using a timbre in which I can only hear harmonics up to the 5th harmonic clearly. (more harmonics are in there, but too faint to...
Magnus Jonsson
zealmange
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Apr 12, 2008
5:24 am

... You might as well see how you fare with my old suggestion: E 315 F 335 F# 354 G 376 G# 398 A 421 Bb 447 B 472 C 502 C# 531 D 563 Eb 597 this has 3 pure...
Tom Dent
sphaerenklang
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Apr 15, 2008
3:31 pm

... Not bad. However, in spite of the somewhat lower numbers, the brats aren't as quite as simple as with my 24c (with five consecutive pure fifths): 364,...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 15, 2008
7:39 pm

... Hi George, Tom & all others, ... 313 > E 315 334 > F 335 352 > F# 354 375 > G 376 396 > G# 398 418 > A 421 cps or Hz 445.5 > Bb 447 469.5 > B 472 501 > C...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Apr 18, 2008
4:54 pm

... Hi Andreas, I won't be able to listen to any of these yet, but here are my comments from looking at the numbers. ... Not bad. This is probably the one I...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 18, 2008
9:07 pm

... Hi George, why 4.6 cents? Anyway, the following tuning has the errors of all fifths under 4.6 cents: ! 12 ! 224/211 237/211 252/211 266/211 282/211 299/211...
Kalle Aho
kalleaho
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Apr 23, 2008
10:01 pm

... !Kalle_C211Hz.scl ... That yields realized in concrete absolute-pitches: C: 211 C# 224 D: 237 Eb 252 E: 266 F: 282 F# 299 G: 316 G# 336 A: 355 ~...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Apr 24, 2008
7:49 pm

... and ... two ... are ... the ... not ... I should have said 4.7 cents. That's the maximum amount the fifths are tempered in my 5/23-comma temperament...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 24, 2008
8:52 pm

... Dear George, as cycle of 5ths: C 149 g: (447>) 446 G=223 d: (669>) 668 334 D=167 a: (501>) 500 A=250 125 e: (375>) 374 E=187 b: (561>) 560 B=280 140 70 35 ...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Apr 25, 2008
7:16 pm

... 5th? ... with ... on >C. ... 5th? ... Yes, that's very good. Thank you for spotting that! --George...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 28, 2008
5:07 pm

(This replaces message #76092, which I've deleted, because there was an error in the .scl listing.) ... of ... yet, ... is ... & ... I've found a way to make...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 29, 2008
6:22 pm

... Hi George, Tom & all others, ... Did you mean by that following corresponding absolute pitches, or which other frequncies had you concrete in mind when ...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Apr 23, 2008
3:58 pm

... Secor) ... I didn't intend any particular absolute pitches when giving these ratios. I expected that you would use whatever pitch reference you like. ...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 23, 2008
5:04 pm

... Hi George, Tom & all others, ... starting in chromatically order from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_C ... I.m.h.o. any tuning for a conrete...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Apr 24, 2008
2:45 pm

... extremely ... A=440 is my preference. (I see no reason why the frequencies of all of the pitches should be exact integers.) With most well- temperaments...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 24, 2008
9:04 pm

... at the moment i do prefer from Werckmeister's septenarian comma versus the SC 81/80 = (99/98)*(441/440) divided into 3 epimoric subparts: 99/98 =...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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Apr 25, 2008
7:54 pm

... all ... A=440; ... C' ... 294/295 ... Either I don't understand this, or something is very wrong with the numbers. The fifths D-A and A-E are tempered >23...
George D. Secor
gdsecor
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Apr 28, 2008
5:25 pm

... 11-limit septenarian comma versus the SC ... 3^4/5/16 = (11*3^2/7^2/2)*(7^2*3^2/11/5/2^3) i do call the ratio: 441/440 ...
Andreas Sparschuh
a_sparschuh
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May 2, 2008
7:51 pm
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