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10:12:15 and the fundamental again   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #79946 of 85226 |
Re: 10:12:15 and the fundamental again

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forro <dan.for@...> wrote:

> > I think the original question was why minor chords are less
> > consonant than major chords.
>
> Are they really?

Yes, very much so. In fact the effect is so extreme, minor
chords beyond the 9-limit are essentially unusable.

> Who cares?

It's quite important in designing instruments and so on.

> For me they both are part of one class of consonant
> sounding chords based on the chain of thirds (or sixths).

Even in the 5-limit, one may speculate why Bach favored
the minor keys. I would go so far as to say that counterpoint
works better in minor keys, partly because the consonance
of the tonic chord is weaker, and therefore the voices
are more free and not constantly heard as harmonics of it.

> From the point of music theory C-E-G is the same chord as
> E-G-C and G-C-E,

That's true if we accept the notion of octave-equivalence
100%. However, anyone who has ever scored for orchestra
or played jazz piano knows, it is not true 100%. Beyond
the 5-limit, it is even less true. The inversions of the
7-limit otonality are very different in character (try it!).

-Carl




Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:18 am

clumma
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Message #79946 of 85226 |
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... Are they really? I didn't mention. Besides it depends on absolute frequency, in low registers everything sound dissonant. Then who knows? Maybe because...
Daniel Forro
danforcz
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Jan 14, 2009
12:28 am

... Yes, very much so. In fact the effect is so extreme, minor chords beyond the 9-limit are essentially unusable. ... It's quite important in designing...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jan 14, 2009
2:27 pm

... But depending on the voicing and absolute frequency location there are always some harmonics fighting, in major chord as well as in minor chord. Major:...
Daniel Forro
danforcz
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Jan 14, 2009
3:27 pm

... That is exactly why this point of view of dissonance is incomplete. ... Sure, that's reasonable, and there may be any number of reasonable explanations....
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jan 14, 2009
6:17 pm

... I add more to this: Who cares? For me they both are part of one class of consonant sounding chords based on the chain of thirds (or sixths). I used them ...
Daniel Forro
danforcz
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Jan 14, 2009
12:54 am

I agree with the thrust of what you write, but I adore the sound of "first inversion"-- E, G, C The 5th partial of the E beating deliciously with the G, the...
caleb morgan
calebmrgn
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Jan 14, 2009
1:05 am

... Especially the latter. Every time I find a way to make some "dissonance" work in a consonant way, I have a damn near heart attack. It's awesome. I haven't...
Mike Battaglia
battaglia01
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Jan 14, 2009
3:45 am

If you are interested, some small part of my works of all kind is on www.soundclick.com/forrotronics, recently I have added my profile and MP3's here:...
Daniel Forro
danforcz
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Jan 14, 2009
4:42 am

If you take 3 Hz, 7 Hz, 11 Hz, 15 Hz, etc, and you add them all together, the resultant waveform will have a period of 1 second, and thus a frequency of 1 Hz....
Mike Battaglia
battaglia01
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Jan 13, 2009
6:25 pm

Yeah, sorry. I deleted my original but I guess you caught it. -C....
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jan 13, 2009
6:56 pm

... Couldn't say that better myself. That's like taking the words out of my mind. Petr...
Petr Parízek
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Jan 13, 2009
6:38 pm

... Don't know about other people's hearing, but if the sounding tones are rich in overtones (as is the case of many musical instruments including bowed...
Petr Parízek
p.parizek@...
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Jan 13, 2009
6:56 pm

... The tones do not have to be rich in overtones, which is why I suggested you perform the experiment with sine tones. I'm not disputing the existence of a...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jan 13, 2009
7:38 pm

... I think that any time you hear a chord as existing as some kind of harmonic entity in and of itself, and not as a bunch ofrandom cacophonous notes, that...
Mike Battaglia
battaglia01
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Jan 13, 2009
7:38 pm

... Did you? That was the very first experiment I tried when we began discussing the fundamental frequency to make sure I was really able to hear it. ... Okay,...
Petr Parízek
p.parizek@...
Send Email
Jan 13, 2009
8:23 pm

... Infrared light can be periodic, but we do not hear a pitch. Audio amplitude modulation can be periodic, but we do not hear a pitch. When longitudinal...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jan 13, 2009
9:08 pm

... When I was attending classical harmony lessons, some of which I was taught at an age of 11 (Daniel Forró may confirm), the term "fundamental tone" was...
Petr Parízek
p.parizek@...
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Jan 13, 2009
10:03 pm

... OK, fair enough. ... Right, everything's indirect in classical theory. We have to adapt it to reality. Hilarity ensues. :) ... OK. What about...
Carl Lumma
clumma
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Jan 13, 2009
10:20 pm

... "OK. What about irrational intervals?" Well there's the rub! On the one hand we have a rational model which seems to explain musical harmony to some...
rick_ballan
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Jan 14, 2009
4:29 am

... Well, it would have to be something heavily "out of tune" in order I didn't try to intentionally find a rational approximation for it. What I could think...
Petr Parízek
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Jan 13, 2009
11:07 pm
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