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Beatings vs Intermodulation tones   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #79952 of 85234 |
Re: [tuning] Explaining major 4:5:6 and minor 10:12:15 triads,Re:Beatings vs Intermodulation

Max wrote:

> Sorry Petr, perhaps I misunderstood. I am talking about the FFT
> spectrum of the resulting signal, after nonlinear combination. In
> such a case combination tones appear in the spectrum.

And from then on, they can no longer be called combination tones.

Petr

 

 
Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:27 pm

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p.parizek@...
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Forward 		Message #79952 of 85234 |
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... You read my mind! -C....
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:49 pm

... And from then on, they can no longer be called combination tones. Petr...
Petr ParĂ­zek
p.parizek@...
Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:27 pm

... Ok. So let's call them "tones that arise from a nonlinear combination of two pure tones", What is the correct terminology for those? Thanks Max...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:35 pm

... First of all, I don’t know what you mean by „acoustic“ because here we were discussing pure sine waves which never occur in nature and can only be...
Petr Parízek
p.parizek@...
Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
7:37 am

You will not get interference when the sine waves are electrical. Ring modulation is a process that occurs with electrical signals. Beating as you describe...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
1:47 pm

But oops. My experiment did show what is considered beating which is interference which is summation of the signal. However I still hold that one cannot ring...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
1:53 pm

... I think your sine waves weren't pure. ... Petr and Mike just showed you how you can. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
5:27 pm

Why do you think the sine waves were not pure. 2 I am nopt convinced you can multipy sines waves acoustically which is what ring modulation does. Sent via...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
5:46 pm

... Because the chords were beating. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
5:58 pm

Carl... Harmonics are nothing more than additional sinusoidal waves usually at significantly decreasing volume going up in frequency. I am home and have...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
6:05 pm

I believe the summation of sines + cosines is fundamental to Fourier's theorm. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ... From: "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> Date:...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
6:07 pm

... Hi Carl, you can see that there may be beatings in chords also using pure tones. They seem to come out from a combination of beating frequencies of the...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
7:13 pm

... You'll have to convince me. ... I can't view PDFs on this computer at the moment. I guess I should just fire up my old computer and synthesize some ...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
8:40 pm

Let me try the Korg Pure Major scale with sines and.... yes I got off track on the video, but honestly I've been busy. Wife, kid, job and all that... I imagine...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
9:00 pm

... Hi Carl, I have uploaded a zipped folder containing an HTML output of the Mathematica notebook. You should be able to see it with any web browser. About...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
11:40 pm

http://soonlabel.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1232242785 *http://tinyurl.com/test2tuning* <http://tinyurl.com/test2tuning> ok, there is again noise that...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
2:05 am

... signals were ... with osc 2 ... pitches about ... Hi Chris, I am trying to understand why, when using pure sinusoidal tones, just added up, you get some...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 20, 2009
8:30 am

Hi Max, I live in the usa midwest. The mains are 60 hz or so. I'm thinking it is a problem with doing discrete math on an analog problem now. I need to...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 20, 2009
1:15 pm

... it is a problem with doing discrete math on an analog problem now. I need to re-visit it. It certainly makes little sense in the context of the book I...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 20, 2009
1:33 pm

... Thanks Max (and Chris), there does seem to be something going on here. I must say I was not aware of this effect. Interesting! -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 19, 2009
4:07 am

... I did so: http://lumma.org/stuff/majmin.zip ~ 2.7 MB. Unfortunately, I can't synthesize 6-voice chords with Cool Edit. But I did make otonal and utonal...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
9:50 am

... Hi Carl, there is no doubt that just intonation chords should not beat. Beating chords are, up to now, the ones played by piano (12-TET) as well as the...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
3:52 pm

But, with all due respect, you can see the beating, ie, the constructive / destructive interference. That is plainly visible when you look a the wave with...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
4:14 pm

http://clones.soonlabel.com/tis/tones.jpg...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
4:36 pm

Is this the waveform with beating? I don't see any beating anywhere. -Mike...
Mike Battaglia
battaglia01
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
11:51 pm

I would appreciate if you and Carl (and anyone else how cares) could come up with a solid definition of beating based on physics. To me what I read here is...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 19, 2009
12:03 am

Chris, Constructive and destructive interference is only part of the reason that beating exists. If you took an entire song and you got the FFT of the whole...
Mike Battaglia
battaglia01
Offline Send Email 		Jan 19, 2009
12:45 am

Mike in 1978 I took a course in electronic music as part of my musuic degree. I am in the process of scanning a couple pages for you and Carl. Essentially...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 19, 2009
4:18 am

... Mike's right Chris, but sure, I'd be happy to look at some scans. In the meantime, maybe you could try some research of your own on the WWW. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 19, 2009
4:24 am

Carl.... the phenomena is the same. Otherwise point me to a reference that describes the physics of sound that differs from the reference I have provided which...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 19, 2009
4:32 am
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