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Beatings vs Intermodulation tones   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #79955 of 85228 |
Explaining major 4:5:6 and minor 10:12:15 triads,Re:Beatings vs Intermodulation

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Parízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:

> As Daniel has pointed out, sometimes it is the frequency of the
> difference tone itself, which we may perceive as beats if it
> lies outside our hearing range.

Incorrect! I'm not sure what else to say about this... -Carl
Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:36 pm

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clumma
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Forward 		Message #79955 of 85228 |
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... respect the ... which they ... difference ... hearing ... of the ... as 27 cents ... To my understanding, difference tone is a tone, i.e. periodical ...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
3:24 pm

... Incorrect! I'm not sure what else to say about this... -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:36 pm

... I guess the simplest demonstration is to play a pair of converging sine tones softly. There will be no difference tones, but roughness and then beating...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:48 pm

... Then you are not talking about combination tones. Combination tones do not appear themselves in the spectrum and you don't see them in FFT analysis. If...
Petr ParĂ­zek
p.parizek@...
Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
3:57 pm

... tones do not appear themselves in the spectrum and you don't see them in FFT analysis. If they, for any reason, eventually do appear in the spectrum, then...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:09 pm

Sorry Petr, perhaps I misunderstood. I am talking about the FFT spectrum of the resulting signal, after nonlinear combination. In such a case combination tones...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:15 pm

... You read my mind! -C....
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:49 pm

... And from then on, they can no longer be called combination tones. Petr...
Petr ParĂ­zek
p.parizek@...
Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:27 pm

... Ok. So let's call them "tones that arise from a nonlinear combination of two pure tones", What is the correct terminology for those? Thanks Max...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 14, 2009
4:35 pm

... First of all, I don’t know what you mean by „acoustic“ because here we were discussing pure sine waves which never occur in nature and can only be...
Petr Parízek
p.parizek@...
Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
7:37 am

You will not get interference when the sine waves are electrical. Ring modulation is a process that occurs with electrical signals. Beating as you describe...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
1:47 pm

But oops. My experiment did show what is considered beating which is interference which is summation of the signal. However I still hold that one cannot ring...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
1:53 pm

... I think your sine waves weren't pure. ... Petr and Mike just showed you how you can. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
5:27 pm

Why do you think the sine waves were not pure. 2 I am nopt convinced you can multipy sines waves acoustically which is what ring modulation does. Sent via...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
5:46 pm

... Because the chords were beating. -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
5:58 pm

Carl... Harmonics are nothing more than additional sinusoidal waves usually at significantly decreasing volume going up in frequency. I am home and have...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
6:05 pm

I believe the summation of sines + cosines is fundamental to Fourier's theorm. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ... From: "Carl Lumma" <carl@...> Date:...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 15, 2009
6:07 pm

... Hi Carl, you can see that there may be beatings in chords also using pure tones. They seem to come out from a combination of beating frequencies of the...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
7:13 pm

... You'll have to convince me. ... I can't view PDFs on this computer at the moment. I guess I should just fire up my old computer and synthesize some ...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
8:40 pm

Let me try the Korg Pure Major scale with sines and.... yes I got off track on the video, but honestly I've been busy. Wife, kid, job and all that... I imagine...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
9:00 pm

... Hi Carl, I have uploaded a zipped folder containing an HTML output of the Mathematica notebook. You should be able to see it with any web browser. About...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 17, 2009
11:40 pm

http://soonlabel.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1232242785 *http://tinyurl.com/test2tuning* <http://tinyurl.com/test2tuning> ok, there is again noise that...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
2:05 am

... signals were ... with osc 2 ... pitches about ... Hi Chris, I am trying to understand why, when using pure sinusoidal tones, just added up, you get some...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 20, 2009
8:30 am

Hi Max, I live in the usa midwest. The mains are 60 hz or so. I'm thinking it is a problem with doing discrete math on an analog problem now. I need to...
chrisvaisvil@...
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 20, 2009
1:15 pm

... it is a problem with doing discrete math on an analog problem now. I need to re-visit it. It certainly makes little sense in the context of the book I...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 20, 2009
1:33 pm

... Thanks Max (and Chris), there does seem to be something going on here. I must say I was not aware of this effect. Interesting! -Carl...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 19, 2009
4:07 am

... I did so: http://lumma.org/stuff/majmin.zip ~ 2.7 MB. Unfortunately, I can't synthesize 6-voice chords with Cool Edit. But I did make otonal and utonal...
Carl Lumma
clumma
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
9:50 am

... Hi Carl, there is no doubt that just intonation chords should not beat. Beating chords are, up to now, the ones played by piano (12-TET) as well as the...
massimilianolabardi
massimiliano...
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
3:52 pm

But, with all due respect, you can see the beating, ie, the constructive / destructive interference. That is plainly visible when you look a the wave with...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
4:14 pm

http://clones.soonlabel.com/tis/tones.jpg...
Chris Vaisvil
vaisvil
Offline Send Email 		Jan 18, 2009
4:36 pm
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